Post: #1

Hey guys,

Just wondering if anyone else has had issues with building and maintaining friends.

Basically all through school and university, I became friends with a people from a different areas but I felt like I never really developed any deep friendships. I think it was my fault - but I never realised it at the time. Eg I played sport with the ‘jocks’ (so to speak) but I never went out drinking with them ( I never drank that much). Also, I was into hanging out with the ‘nerds’ when programming and designing websites, but I never played games with them. Hence I never really developed any deep friendships.

Now I’m approaching 30 and work a fairly stressful job. Hence, I don’t get a lot of time to socialise. And even when I do, it’s more 1 on 1 with a person and I get along quite well. But everyone who I have a good friendship with 1 on 1 - they are part of a much larger group of established friends and I’m not really a part of that/don’t get invited to their activities/ and sometimes much to my regret I turned some of them down (I really regret this, but at the time, I didn’t really realise the effect of what I was doing)

Also, I don’t lead a very exciting lifestyle - I enjoy working on software/web site projects (when I can get time away from my job), watching a bit of sport and working out at the gym when I can. I don’t really surf/kitesurf/play footy/etc. I used to volunteer a fair bit but don’t anymore because of work. I do drink but don’t really go out and get wasted.

Has anyone been in this type of situation? Have you done anything to overcome it? I’m pretty sure the issue is with me because everyone else around me seem to have quite deep and meaningful friendships and groups

Because my job takes up most of time during the week, it’s not a big issue day to day because I don’t think about it much. But when I do get the time to reflect on my life overall, it strikes me as quite sad and that I need to do something about it.

Thanks for any input.

Post: #2

Other then my long term on/off again girlfriend I haven't had a deep friendship since I was in high school. Right out of highschool I had some pretty good friendships but they all revolved around getting drunk, banging chicks, and doing drugs... So I don't know how "deep" those friendships really were.

I feel like a outsider most anywhere I go. I feel like I can not relate to other people. Its not like I am socially awkward or anything I'm very charismatic and usually when I am out socializing I'm the leader of the pack. That still doesn't mean I feel like I have much in common with other people. It used to get me down but now I look at it like its a good thing I can't relate to these other sheepeople. I'm stuck here in good ol Murica a little bit longer. An when I am out and see all these fat unhappy people and I feel like I have nothing in common with them, instead of getting down I just look around and smirk and realize that none of the people matter when I am out traveling the world, having adventures, and banging girls.

Post: #3

I can kind of relate, I get along with everyone and have always been good at having several different groups of friends and bouncing between groups. That said by doing so I think I've never become one of any particular group so always kinda felt like an outside. I was friends with several groups of really close friends who'd grown up together. We were good friends and hungout but when it came to things like someone's wedding where they were all part of the wedding party or a group trip I'd often be left out because I didn't grow up with the group was just kind of an ancillary person I guess.

That and I feel like it's just hard to develope deep friendships these days. I look at my grandfather and he's got friends who's he's been friends with for 50 years or more, are part of the family, etc. I feel like these days everyone is acquantances but nobody is really great friends. Not sure whether it's technology like everyone is virtual friends but not in real life or if its the idea that being close friends is "gay" but you just don't see those deep friendships.

I used to be a reader of the art of manliness forum and read the website. They actually had a lot of good reading on friendships and relationships not only between men and women but even friendships with family or your guy friends. They kinda talk about how these days to talk about your feelings or relationships or even almost anything besides sports and tits that its gay or percieved that way.

I guess if you think about it how many friends do you have that you can really talk to about deep subject or that you'd talk to after a breakup or after getting cheated on or someting like that?

I hear my grandpa say once if you have one true friend you can rely on or one lifetime friend in your life your a lucky dude. I think there's definately some truth to that. I don't have many friends these days, I've always felt like I've put more into friendships than others. I feel like nobody makes plans and sticks to them these days, I feel like anytime something better comes along people drop plans and do soemthing else. I feel like nobody wants to do anyone a favor these days and help someone out if it inconveniences them. I've pretty much decided anyone who's not a loyal consistant part of my life isn't worth being part of it. nto sure iff thats the righht attitude to take or whether its better just to accept people for who they are and keep people as casual friends

Post: #4

I'm in the same boat. If someone seriously asked me how many friends (more than just acquaintances) I have I'd say zero. I'm not even near my family and am not really close to most of them anymore either. I've moved at pretty much every "major" junction in my life (i.e. junior high to high school, high school to college, college to post college, post college to current residence) and each new locale was where I didn't know anyone. At this point it seems like I've been "alone" my entire life. It isn't that I'm not good at making friends, every where I've gone I've always made friends. I'm pretty reserved, but people that get to know me always find me interesting. At the current stage of my life I am not as interested in making friends for the sake of making friends. Since I don't live in a major city, meeting people that are interested in similar things, especially where I'm at, is hard to come by. Since I don't watch sports/TV or hardly ever drink, most people will have trouble relating to me more than superficially. I've had many people that have tried to become better friends with me, but I don't see them as a positive influence in my current scheme so I end up staying distant. I understand that a certain amount of isolation is a logical outcome of that and I'm ok with that. I'll take traveling, fitness, developing unique hobbies, and overall self improvement over going over to someone's "man cave" (i.e. garage) to watch sports, complain about wives, and drink shitty beer.

If this is something that does trouble you I advise you to put forth more effort to remedy your situation. Loneliness, sadness, and despair will only beget more loneliness, sadness, and despair. Obviously this is hypocritical of me to say, but human beings are social creatures and are meant to be around others. It is always tough when work schedules are consuming, but if this is something that you truly want to change then attack it with reckless abandon. Take time away from your current side projects and be more outgoing in other things. Making friends isn't easy. Making good friends is even tougher. I think meet up.com is a way to find groups/people in your area that have similar interests. Try some groupon/livingsocial classes or events. It ay take a little bit of getting out of your comfort zone to get your desired results.

Post: #5

I can relate. I had a great group of red pill-oriented friends with during and after college. People gradually move out of state/get serious about careers, etc, and you start focusing time/energy with a select few friends as you move on into your mid/late 20s - in my case it was two particular friends. Then a few years they both got nailed by a false rape accusation so they fled the country and I haven’t heard from them since then.

I'm 31 now; I’ve made new acquaintances, but none of that brotherhood-level type of trust I used to have. It’s made me more resilient in terms of getting shit done and being self-motivated, but it still sucks.

I’ve been training BJJ for a few years (until recent injury) and that has certainly helped to have social interaction with guys outside of my corporate work environment. But almost all of the guys my gym are married/ and 100% of them live in the suburbs...I'm cool with them, but they are just on a different wavelength...

I’ve been invited to some weddings- I see guys giving best man speeches. I don’t want to get married, certainly not in the USA, but even if I did - I definitely don’t have a friend I could ask to give that speech for me. Hell I don’t even have groomsmen. I suppose it makes the whole marriage scam even easier to avoid - not even an option.

Post: #6

The only true friends I've made since college are the people I've met through playing guitar in the live music scene. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part the smaller scale music community (bar/community event acts) is a great place to find people that are on the right path.

If you can play an instrument there is a brotherhood of hustlers and people that are working their asses off that you can link up with, provided you are a level headed guy and eager to work, ie get onstage. I don't know about DJ's and the like, but for actual live instrumental music the people I've been in bands with have been from all walks of life: Just starting out, established super-successful career types, crazy salesmen, artistic immigrants just trying to 'make it' in America, introverted music nerds...whatever. They are all cool and people that I'm happy to have in my life.

If you have no self control, you'll also find plenty live music people on the "fun" track to nowhere. Finding your balance of work and play is key. You'll meet people and relationships will form where you both have a similar balance of how much you want to gig out/get fucked up and how much you want to do other stuff.

Kind of similar to the connections ^poledaddy mentioned about BJJ, except the live music long hours and late nights almost always screen out suburb/family folk from entering the fray

Post: #7

I can very much relate to your post. I have always been able to become friends with people extremely quick and as a result I had a very large social circle/amount of friends who I always partied with.
Two years ago I wanted to improve my body through lifting and studying more and as a result went out less and didn't see my friends at all any more because they all went to other schools.
Now I have maybe 2 really good friends, the rest are just dudes I sometimes play football with or something.

But I have noticed now that I have "less" friends so to speak, that most of them weren't 'good' friends really.
When I run into some old friends now we just say hi, smalltalk and part ways again.
Not the kind of friends who you could call up in the middle of the night when you need to hide a body and need them to keep their mouth shut. Most people won't care about you, that's the truth.

Post: #8

bonkers, I am this way myself.

To an extent, I believe that it is genetic. To another extent, you have to decide what you want out of life.

Just from the way that you have phrased your post, you already know the answer to the questions you are asking.

As you have alluded to yourself, after you have already vetted people for shared interests and a similar worldview it comes down to time invested and actively going out and pursuing those kinds of relationships.

It really comes down to you wanting those relationships enough to go out into the world, take action, then ultimately create the behaviors and habits necessary to have the kind of friendships that you are talking about.

Post: #9

Apart from a small group of high school and Uni friends, who I would definitely call close, this story is pretty much reflective of my life. I think we’d find a lot of commonalities amongst our personalities from those that have posted so far.

I’ve actually been thinking about starting a similar thread topic, and at the risk of derailing, would like to touch on some of those points.

We all talk about self-improvement here, in very much personal terms. One of those areas is making money.

Now, this may not apply to all industries, but I would hazard a guess that men who are wealthy are also men who are very good at networking, essentially making friendships that lubricate the path to wealth. This is further aided by familial ties and friendships across generations, within respective social classes. That's for another thread though.

Obviously these friendships differ to those in our personal life (and may also be intertwined), but a similar dynamic is at play in that the “friendships” are fostered by a I help you/you help me mentality, albeit on a professional level.

My father has always been good at this, and it’s something that I envy about him. It’s probably something that I could work on, but deep down I guess I have a feeling of being disingenuous when pursuing these types of relationships since I would be doing it for personal gain. I know that sentiment is something I should just get over though.

To take this further, I believe the reasoning behind not forming solid friendships is based upon the belief that you don’t relate or don’t have a lot of commonalities with said person or group. This may be called being set in your ways, or maybe it’s just knowing what you like and what you don’t like.

In essence, it becomes self-limiting though, as it causes stagnation in life and perpetuates the inability to seek new experiences with different people - expanding horizons per se. At least I can attest to that.

I also believe there is a tendency for people who have these traits to sell themselves short, that somehow their opinion/skills/attributes will be underappreciated or go unnoticed all together. This should be seen for what it is however; faulty thinking, and linked to a lack of confidence that we all have the power to improve.

Post: #10

I feel like I am in a similar boat. I dont live where I grew up so I am not in touch with any of my high school friends. I am not really close with my friends from undergrad anymore either. Most of my friends are from grad school. It seems like most of them are getting married and what not, only a few of us are not. Also, we all work in healthcare and have strange hours (especially mine because I work overnight a week on and a week off). So I barely see the few friends that I do have. It always seems like a big ordeal to just go out for drinks.

Post: #11

One of the things I really enjoy about dating a woman are the friend groups. Women really easily merge and create friend groups of similar people. Note I said similar, you're not going to get a group of "deep friends" like the TV HIMYM or Friends. Those i've found are extremely rare and formed in odd circumstances that never change.

Getting into pre-established friend circles is really hard / impossible if you're an interloper. People don't trust you and likewise I tend to see why. Most guys interlope into groups of people for the sheer purpose of getting laid. Something I have been guilty of.

I've learned to accept this and join organizations where like minded people congregate. Think sports clubs, churches, etc.

Post: #12

It seems many of us on here are alike in this aspect. I think guys on this forum know themselves and what they want out of life much more than the avg joe aimlessly wandering thru life. I think that can make it tougher to have friendships i think. I think many of us arent going to settle for a one sided friendship and are comfortable veing alone of thats how its going to be where as i think many people will settle for one aoded friendahips just to have someone around to call a friend. Acquantances are a dime a dozenm i couod go out and get 10 of them tonight at a bar. Whats harder to come by is true friendships where people actually care whats going on with you, are loyal friends etc. I would say i have one friend and oddly enough its not even a dude i really hang with that much but we been friends for years used to be roomates. If he has sum shit going on in his life he wants to talk about hel call me and vice versa. If i called h8m at 4am and meeded a ride hed come pick me upm if he calls me and needs to borrow money its a given he got it. Were more phone friends than anyth8ng else these days but thats the only friendships i got time for. I wrote in a thread a wh8le baco about a group of friends i had where i was always there for them help out moving or whatever else. Called my supposed buddy up needed a ride to get my car out of impound really meeded a lift and my buddy was too busy playing call of duty to help me out. At that poimt realized if your not a true friend i dont need you because acquantances are a d8me a dozen friends arent

Post: #13

I would say that a lot of men in this thread and on this forum are introverted.

At the least, introversion is the best way to characterize these feelings.

There are plenty of high quality men out there to pursue friendships with. Like I said, it comes down to how much you want to seek out these friendships or not.

I used to blame the people for the fact I was not developing the friendships I desired.

After spending a significant amount of time working on my social skills and socializing with others, I found out that it was not other people but it was me. I enjoyed spending time alone and having transient friendships that did not take large investments of time to develop.

What I found to be the best middle ground is finding an activity that I can do on a consistent basis that exposes me to other people satisfied my need for socializing.

The best thing anyone can do if they feel they are lacking in the friendship department is to create a list of social hobbies that they are interested in and then try out each one until you find a hobby that you like enough to do repeatedly over a long period of time and one that attracts people you can relate with.

Post: #14

No I don't have these issues.

Every close friend I've ever had I will pick the phone and call whenever I think of them.

Cool thing about deeper friendships is they really need about a 1 hour maintenance call every 6 months no matter how far apart you are. If you don't see each other for 4 years it's like you picked up just where you left off.

Once you get to your late 20s hanging with any guy even twice a week is exceedingly rare. It is more like once a week, and more likely once every 2 weeks. People get busy.

Post: #15

Interesting thread.

I think some of the guys posting here are overlooking a resource staring you right in the face:

Find posters on the forum who live in your area and are of similar age or have shared interests -- or just posters that you think you you might enjoy hanging out with. Get in touch with them through PMs or the "meetups" subforum and see if you can make new friendships with like-minded men.

Where else are you going to be able to find a group of men that you can speak with honestly, and know that you will be understood? Do you realize how much you already share by default with other guys who are drawn to the forum and who post here? These are guys that you can probably have laughs with that you can't have with anyone else. And friendships formed between like-minded, but free-thinking, men such as the ones drawn to this forum are the ones most likely to withstand the test of time.

One of the very best uses of the RVF is as a resource for men to find other men that they can hang out with in real life, chase tail together, and over time, form some of the best and deepest friendships. Make use of it!

Post: #16

I always figured this forum would be full of guys like this, cause that's how I am.

I'm a one man crew anymore. Didn't use to be, but the more self reliant I become, the more I feel like consistent, multiple times per week type social groups hold you back.

I can go out alone, I can cook, I lift alone, I don't need a group to do what makes me happy.

I never have a group of more than one or two consistent friends because
the only time I hang out with someone regularly is when they are bettering me or I have taken an active interest in bettering them. Imparting knowledge, skill sets, or valuable memories.

Large groups will inevitably have a member who lags behind in some aspect and I have little tolerance for behavior I deem inadequate.

I guess it's that I treat everyone like I treat women, if we aren't seeing 100% eye to eye, if you've became more trouble than benefit, if you're allowing your existence to stagnate, or if I'm simply bored of our primary form of interaction I next em.


OP, don't feel bad about not having a large social group.
The comfort and complacency of always having a crew does not outweigh the negatives of comfort, complacency, and the dependency they breed.

And besides, you do have a group of like minded people to talk to on a regular basis....
The good people here at RVF.

(if you're in the midwest send a PM, always down to chill with like minded folks if you're nearby)

Post: #17

I've never had trouble making and keeping a few close friends, so I'll try to offer some advice. It's late and I'm supposed to be writing a paper, so the below is just me spitting out whatever comes to mind.

A) Joining a crew as an outsider is a tricky proposition. Groups are always wary of letting outsiders join, for various reasons. First, every new person necessarily dilutes the group a bit, making it less tight. Second, there's the risk that you're of poor character and a bad addition to the group (untrustworthy, a leech, low value, etc). There are status considerations in play. For example, the top guy is going to try to block you if he perceives you as higher status and a threat to his position. Ribbonfarm has a good writeup on status for those interested. Even if you get in, you might always be the new(er) guy that's not part of the core group, as mentioned above.

B) Always deliver value. Definitely as much as you're getting, preferably more. It helps to have a general idea as to how much and what kind of value you're delivering to the people in your life.

C) Deep friendships are forged through facing trials with people who share your values. Perhaps you don't have any close friends because you're only doing surface level activities and having surface level conversations with people. That's why frats and military units have hazings - it brings the initiates closer together.

D) Look for guys that also lack close male friends. If a guy already has enough close friends, he's basically unavailable. But if a guy lacks close friends, it could be because he's a shitty person (cf. Mike CF's 10 year friendship test). Make sure he lacks close friends because of something else, like being new to town. If you're 30 and lack close friends, it's a bit of an uphill battle. Sort of like how women complain that all of the good men are taken or players and that all of the single guys their age have something wrong with them. But don't quit, because every man needs a support network.

E) They must share your values. Cannot emphasize this enough. When I meet new people, I'm immediately screening for values. If they do not share your values, it's a non-starter. Next.

I don't know if any of that helps. Let me know if I can clarify/expound on anything.

Post: #18

(06-16-2014 09:08 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  Interesting thread.

I think some of the guys posting here are overlooking a resource staring you right in the face:

Find posters on the forum who live in your area and are of similar age or have shared interests -- or just posters that you think you you might enjoy hanging out with. Get in touch with them through PMs or the "meetups" subforum and see if you can make new friendships with like-minded men.

My thoughts exactly - though the similar interests and age aren't even exactly mandatory. A lot of guys from this forum have already met and begun the types of lifelong friendships all you guys here are complaining about not being able to find after your teens. And these with guys who likely don't even live in the same city or country, so if you live in a big city with other members, there's a lot of potential.

I'm not even into pickup, but I've met quite a few members, and I find the personalities as you read them on the forum are very transferable to real life. The good parts and the little personality quirks. So if a guys seems like someone you would respect and vibe with and he has no hangups that rub you really wrong, take the time to go meet him.

I'll also add that I think one mistake guys make is wanting to meet a friend that "ticks all the boxes" for them. You're not looking for a wife here that's going to share your home and bed and help you raise your children.

I have actually built quite a few friendships that have lasted over the years throughout my twenties and early thirties. Now, I don't see these guys a lot because I'm always moving somewhere new, but we still stay in touch, and from time to time I meet up with them when we get the chance and nothing has changed. I'm as close with some as people I grew up with back home.

But here's the thing. I don't agree with every single thing these guys say or do or the way they live their lives. Some have downright pissed me off at times. They are extremely diverse, and in fact, a lot of them probably wouldn't get along very well with each other.

Life is too short and you're going to make yourself miserable if you expect people to always behave and think the way you want them to. Friendship is not about meeting a replica of yourself, and we all know the world is not that simple; it's about living and "working together" in spite of your differences (but without sacrificing your basic moral beliefs).

Some of my friends are young, just coming out of high school. Some of my friends are past retirement age. Some are rich. Some are poor as fuck. Some look like they're in the military and some are rocking dreds. Some are drinking themselves to death, and I'm still waiting to see if they'll snap out of it; some are born again Christians hooked on coffee (and maybe I'm waiting for them to snap out of it too). Some are thai or Cambodian - some are American or Norwegian. Some are traveling the world and walking life's jagged edge - others are married with children and will probably sit right there in the same place they are until the day they die. Hell, a couple are even women.

Maybe that sounds like a lot of friends. I'm sure some of you might think I'm counting acquaintances, but I'm not. Yeah, maybe they wouldn't all help me bury a body, but I don't plan on stacking up any bodies any time soon, and these are people I could turn to in an emergency. Many would and have invited me to stop wandering around and come live in their homes or their hometowns for a while and start building a normal life. If I come to their city, I often do stay in their homes when I first arrive.

So, these are real friends, and while my lifestyle choices might lead to us drifting apart for good eventually (we are, after all, scattered across the globe), I don't doubt a good handful will continue to reach out from time to time to touch bases until we're old and grey. Which ones really make it the long haul will probably depend on where I end up settling down.

I do have some very basic criteria if I'm going to establish a deeper friendship with someone, though.

They have to be a moral person - i.e. they don't take advantage of other people or steal from people, and they'd be very likely to help out if they saw someone in a dire situation. I mean, I can't even really be a casual friend with someone if they don't have a strong moral base.

I can't really stomach hardcore pessimists either. They're too damn bitter and often use negative paradigms as an excuse for immoral, self-serving behavior. It's easy to fuck other people over if you decide all the "other people" are shitbags....

Also, they actually have to be a genuine person you can have a real conversation with. I'm met a lot of surface-level shallow people that seemed like they were interesting underneath their masks - a lot of these people I've liked because they were fun guys to hang out with and because they know how to play the game. But it's too hard to build a real friendship with someone if they can't cut the bullshit and open up a little bit.

Here's another thing about making friends. If you want to build a friendship with someone new, you've got to be able to tune out the world for a minute. When you meet up with a new acquaintance, do you just run from club to club looking for a target-rich environment where you can hit on club sluts?

Sure, that's fun, but it doesn't leave much time for actually getting to know each other, does it?

I think a lot of guys who struggle to make friends aren't taking the time to slow down and just kick back and bullshit and let the world pass on by. So you've got to ask yourself - are you the one who is always cutting the conversation short to hurry along to the next venue? Are you the one with his head buried in his phone, texting with the latest crop of girls and running off to the next date or bang? As I said, I've met a lot of guys here, and I can assure quite a few definitely are.

Or are you willing to set the phone down for a minute and just kick back in a dead restaurant or bar or over the barbecue or on a hike in the mountains without worrying what all the other people in the world are doing? Again, some of you definitely are.

See, anyone can run around slamming shots with you all night and chasing pussy, but if you run into someone who can sit around all night with you smoking shisha or sipping beers and just talking about everything and nothing - and there are a lot more out there than you think if you yourself can slow down enough to pay attention to the person who's sitting right in front of you - and they're not a sleazy person who uses others, you've run into someone that at least has the potential to become a friend for life. So pay attention to them for a second.

I also wrote a blog post and mentioned in a post here on the forum recently about resisting the urge to seek out those perfect (surface level) social situations in everyday life. The same is true for deeper friendship. We want to meet that perfect new friend like we want to run into that perfect 10 with a perfect personality. So we ignore everyone else and put ourselves on "standby" until that happens. After all, you want to be free to engage when you stumble across that perfect 10 sitting all by herself or that crowd of well-connected cool people just waiting to add to someone to their group...right?

But when you start to open up to people and appreciate them for who they really are, you'll often find the most unassuming people around you in everyday life are the ones with the real potential. They often live a lot wilder, more enriched lives than you might think too.

You ignore the 6 staring at you across the bar with those cock-gobbling eyes. You meet a guy and you want to skim right over him because he looks like this average guy and not all that exciting at the surface level. But you know what, just like sometimes the hottie who has everything handed to her is the most boring lay and worse conversationalist, some of the "coolest" people in the world I've met, who have the best package on the outside, are also the least fun to be with. The least real. The least happy. The least honest and dependable. I've lost patience with those types; delete them from your life if they can't get on your level.

And often the happiest, most authentic, most exciting, most enjoyable, and most engaging people are the ones you'd be liable to pass right over and ignore because you're looking for a friendship with "more to offer." So I guess it's true what they say about not judging a book by its cover.

Yes, you need some common ground. Yes, you need mutual respect.

But you don't need twin personalities and lifestyles to build a relationship with that kind of person for the long haul, and if you think you do, you may just be setting the bar a bit too high.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

(06-18-2014 05:28 PM)LaserBear Wrote:  I'm a one man crew anymore. Didn't use to be, but the more self reliant I become, the more I feel like consistent, multiple times per week type social groups hold you back.

I never have a group of more than one or two consistent friends because
the only time I hang out with someone regularly is when they are bettering me or I have taken an active interest in bettering them. Imparting knowledge, skill sets, or valuable memories.

I guess it's that I treat everyone like I treat women, if we aren't seeing 100% eye to eye, if you've became more trouble than benefit, if you're allowing your existence to stagnate, or if I'm simply bored of our primary form of interaction I next em.

Very much agree.

I believe this is a natural part of someone committed to self-improvement and self-sufficiency, which I imagine is a large majority of members on this board.

I will continually build up social circles only to abandon them later on. I take a very cut-throat approach to friendships, my time is valuable and unless it's mutually beneficial to both parties involved then I have little interest in maintaining the friendship, it just becomes dead-weight.

Whoever you spend your time with should be inspiring you and adding value to your life, otherwise your wasting your time.

Post: #20

(12-08-2015 03:42 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Here's another thing about making friends. If you want to build a friendship with someone new, you've got to be able to tune out the world for a minute. When you meet up with a new acquaintance, do you just run from club to club looking for a target-rich environment where you can hit on club sluts?

Sure, that's fun, but it doesn't leave much time for actually getting to know each other, does it?

I think a lot of guys who struggle to make friends aren't taking the time to slow down and just kick back and bullshit and let the world pass on by. So you've got to ask yourself - are you the one who is always cutting the conversation short to hurry along to the next venue? Are you the one with his head buried in his phone, texting with the latest crop of girls and running off to the next date or bang? As I said, I've met a lot of guys here, and I can assure quite a few definitely are.

Or are you willing to set the phone down for a minute and just kick back in a dead restaurant or bar or over the barbecue or on a hike in the mountains without worrying what all the other people in the world are doing? Again, some of you definitely are.

See, anyone can run around slamming shots with you all night and chasing pussy, but if you run into someone who can sit around all night with you smoking shisha or sipping beers and just talking about everything and nothing - and there are a lot more out there than you think if you yourself can slow down enough to pay attention to the person who's sitting right in front of you - and they're not a sleazy person who uses others, you've run into someone that at least has the potential to become a friend for life. So pay attention to them for a second.

So many people, including many on our forum, struggle with this concept.

True friendship takes effort and time. Lonely guys think they just need to learn how to fuck girls, make money, be confident and "interesting", and then loyal, caring friends will just magically appear.

If you don't have friends and can find a guy or group that you connect with, please, drop any other extracurricular activities and put in effort to be around these people as much as possible. Outside of inner game/loving yourself, meaningful relationships with friends and family are the second most important thing to have in your life. Dedicate time to finding solid friends just like you would to hitting the gym or growing a career.

Post: #21

(06-16-2014 04:18 PM)Travesty Wrote:  No I don't have these issues.

Every close friend I've ever had I will pick the phone and call whenever I think of them.

Cool thing about deeper friendships is they really need about a 1 hour maintenance call every 6 months no matter how far apart you are. If you don't see each other for 4 years it's like you picked up just where you left off.

Once you get to your late 20s hanging with any guy even twice a week is exceedingly rare. It is more like once a week, and more likely once every 2 weeks. People get busy.

I have 3 good friends that started when I was younger and I've managed to maintain, but there are some real issues. I can't talk about anything politics or redpill related at all.

One friend I grew up with since we were five. Amazing guy. When he was in the dumps about women I told him some stuff from rational male and he devoured it, turned himself around, saw women in a totally different way. Other than that, hes a leftie, green party, loves the environment type guy. Any talk about the world goes terribly.

What I'm saying is, even keeping in contact with people over 30 years, people change. People can become completely different. So even though we're still close, you can never go back to how it was years ago.

The main issue I have relating to people is that most people are idiots. I like a lot of people, enjoy spending time with them, but they are complete idiots and their worldview is so screwed up that its hard to have meaningful talks with them. As I get older this just keeps getting harder.

I have a lot of friends, obviously male, and it revolves around activities: basketball, rock climbing, lifting, board games. My main issue is that when I was younger I would also talk about life and how I felt about life with my friends. Now if I discuss women, politics, the economy, the future, most people's worldview means even basic truths I hold cause people to freak out in shock.

i.e. there is a guy here who is cool enough and we talk some times, he has a GF that he only sees one day a week and they've been together for a long time. I asked him when he was getting married, he said maybe next year. His GF makes almost nothing, shit job, but good looking. I ask him why he doesn't just have her quit, get married tomorrow, she can sit around during the day and cook, fuck his brains out when he gets home everyday, have a few kids. He says that doesn't sound good for her and its objectfying women, plus he doesn't want kids and seeing his gf once a week makes him happy, so why screw it up. It was essentially a complete clash of realities. I can't wrap my head around what he thinks is good or reasonable, nor he of my reality. So I have to keep things on a really stupid, shallow level or freak him out.

I can chat with guys about basketball or rock climbing or lifting, but about life, its only places like this. One of my best friends went from being a rational, tough guy to a complete leftish that pushes the gayest NYtimes articles every day. Its tough, because I cant connect with him anymore.

Is that worse, or not having friends at all worse? I can always hope that they bounce back but its hard dealing in the meantime. Plus Im always walking on eggshells to not say something that causes them to meltdown into leftish hysteria.

Post: #22

I am somewhat socially awkward. I've gotten better over the years, but it's still there. Nevertheless, for most of my life, (I'm 51), I've had one close friend or another that is widely liked and recognized to be a truly great guy. I've gone a few years without, when I moved and didn't immediately make another friend like this, but I'd say I've had friends like this more than 2/3 of the time since I started school as a boy.
Considering my social awkwardness, I assume I'm doing something to gravitate towards guys who are likeable and have outstanding character, and in turn, I obviously have something to offer. However, I don't really have the social skills to win friends and influence people as a conscious goal. It's just something that has happened spontaneously

Edit. This obviously carries over into game. My inner game is much better since discovering the red pill, and I relate to women much better. However, I am having to push myself to learn how to approach and close. It's not easy, because I don't enjoy a conversation with a new person until some point where the ice is broken, and that can take a while for me. I'm trying to make a conscious effort to learn how to talk through this phase until the ice is broken.

Post: #23

Inspired post BB.

Post: #24

Beyond Borders Wrote:-snip-

Damn.. how am I supposed to follow that?

But seriously, what BB wrote rings true. You don't need someone to be a carbon copy of you in order for them to be a good friend. The important thing is that they respect you, concern for your well being, and their loyalty. I have 3 close friends, all of whom couldn't be any more different to me or each other. At various times I've gone through rough spots and needed a friend to get me out of a rut, and they've always been there. I've done the same for them at various times, and that's how I know I can count on them.

I also have to second what Peregrine wrote about it being easiest to find a close friend when they're also lacking a social group. Out of the three friends I wrote about above, one of them I met during an awkward time in HS, another when we were newcomers at college, and another when we were newcomers at the workplace.

As people get older their priorities change, so it's always going to be hard to maintain close friendships. People get married and stop hanging out with the guys, people move away for work, you get the idea. After people reach a certain age, they usually get settled in their group and don't look to make new friends. It is what it is.

Also, if anyone is ever passing through Philly and wants to grab a beer, shoot me a PM.

Post: #25

Reading this thread with a lot of interest.


About a year ago or a bit more I started to be a lot pickier who I should let in and I feel very lonely at times but when I do meet up with people there is a lot more fulfillment and satisfaction.

Here are some notes

The coolest motherfuckers I've met was always somewhat accidental and in more non conventional settings

Two most important criteria are 1 is the person loyal ?2 do they leave you drained afterwards or do you feel energized? Great friends don't have to be similar to you or even have a lot o similar interests,they must be loyal and push you to better yourself and visa versa


I also think its important to not cross over interests. Don't go clubbing to pick up chicks with guys who are timid/ withdrawn but are good hunting or fishing buddies, don't do business with a suave interesting guy who doesn't know jack shit about it or accounting and tends to be chill and relaxed all the time.

Radical honesty in this regard will save you a lot bullshit and potentially ruined friendships.


Don't be a retard and try to be friends with an ex unless you are still fucking or it's been on and off for over 3 years,even then it's just not worth it most of the time as things will always feel ''weird'' when you hang out.

When meeting new friends you will consider to be real friends potentially in the future, give them tasks to prove their loyalty ,of course you should reciprocate but it's important to see who really has your back. In 48 laws of power telling a personal story that's a lie and seeing if it bounces back is one way,but it doesn't have to be that,maybe a favor and see how they handle it and of course explain you will return it.

Most people are not worth entering the gang,so choose wisely.

Friends also must have similar values and want to achieve something more than the average bear


And I repeat never go on a business venture with a close or potential close friend,if you do, take extreme caution and know everything at risk,even if it's your friendship