Post: #1

Many people in the "manosphere," especially PUA's/game strategists hold the alpha/beta/omega hierarchy very dear. However, this hierarchy was taken from the most degenerate elements of pop-evo psych. You will never hear psychologists or sociologists or even evolutionary biologists apply the Alpha/Beta/etc. dichotomy to human societies. It is an ethological dominance hierarchy carelessly misapplied to human relationships by PUAs watching Animal Planet.

Among ethologists, the term has an extremely narrow definition: there is only ONE ALPHA per group. He is a like barbarian warlord: he only attains his position through violence, intimidation, distributing rewards among his followers and forming alliances with other males.

In the "manosphere" there is this assumption that a Beta male is something of a submissive boot-licking pussy provider who has to buy the attention of females - females who will then copulate with Alphas on the sly. But this has nothing in common with Beta animals. Among animals like chimps or baboons, the Beta is the next most ferocious and aggressive male - usually a little younger and less experienced than the Alpha, but still a force to be reckoned with. Usually a Beta will cooperate with an Alpha until he feels he is strong enough to displace the Alpha - at that point either the Alpha will be defeated and expelled, or the Beta will be defeated and expelled from the group (or may even be killed). It is important to remember that among social mammals, Betas are merely younger or slightly weaker Alphas-in-waiting. They are NOT a genetically inferior specimen. Furthermore, a subordinate social mammal will never ascend to the Alpha position immediately unless he displaces the previous Alpha - all Alphas were at one point Betas, and before that they were further down in the pecking order.

In conclusion, the Alpha/Beta hierarchy is a very poor metaphor for human social relationships. Humans DO tend to organize in social hierarchies, but unlike other animals the hierarchy is not determined by violent confrontation and intimidation — not in the modern West, anyways. I also feel this hierarchy is harmful to men. If a guy gets laid a lot and you decide to call him a stud, player, or lothario – fine. You’re describing what he does or is trying to do. But to imply that those who cannot get laid a lot, for whatever reason, are betas, is saying that they are somehow a second-rate man. That’s false and derogatory.

Post: #2

'Gladiator'?

Yawn.

The explanation regarding why Alpha/Beta is used has been explained on MULTIPLE threads.

Use the search function and turn off MTV.

Post: #3

Post: #4

Somebody lecturing us on how Alpha and Beta have a different definition in sociology than is used here? Wow, I feel like it's 2008 again.
So who do you guys think is gonna win the election? I've got a hunch this Obama guy might pull it off.

Post: #5

Not every forum member here is an Alpha but rather alphas in the making.

So a lot of us are trying to get there. More or less the same as the animals.

So... There is probably no reason to change terminology but I wonder what those monkeys would have to say.

Welcome to the forum and feel free to read more threads.

Edit : damn CMQ you beat me to it.. I was trying to be more subtle..

Post: #6

I think the alpha/beta trolls should always be answered because that terminology is so incredibly precious and valuable.

I will quote an earlier post of mine from a different alpha/beta troll thread:

(05-23-2014 10:20 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  To answer the troll's question:

The alpha/beta taxonomy is exceptionally useful and relevant across a very large variety of contexts. The forum is "obsessed" with it because shorthands that are so extraordinarily compact, rich and accurate are few and far between and worth their weight in gold.

Those that whine about how this terminology is an "oversimplification" betray a complete misunderstanding of how language works when it's at its best.

The increasing penetration of the alpha/beta terminology in the wider culture, as well as the widespread adoption of a few juicy insults like "mangina" and "white knight", are likely to do more to help men comprehend some basic facts of life than a hundred intricately argued essays.

Post: #7

1st post is an attack on the forum's fundamentals... Cute. I'm with CMQ: Troll

Post: #8

Here's how I break it down:

There are players and spectators.

Spectators are the guys who have checked out of the game. They could be providers for women, or omega guys who play WoW in their basement and don't get laid (you know the stereotype).

The Alpha/Beta thing I see as being more for the guys who are in the game. The game is a return to caveman hierarchy.

The Alpha's are at the top, and the betas are struggling to get laid. The betas are the ones who buy drinks for girls they don't know because they have no game. The alpha's are the guys who get those girls at the end of the night.

Post: #9

As I've said several times, the alpha/beta dichotomy stems from Mystery, who ignored the idiosyncrasies of it in order to allow a lot of men to understand it readily. The way it's used in game material and the manosphere is not scientifically accurate. However, it's a good (though simple) way of explaining a man's belief system and sexual attractiveness. Either you're willing to stand for something or you don't. Either you're attractive or you're not.

Post: #10

"In conclusion, the Alpha/Beta hierarchy is a very poor metaphor for human social relationships. "

I disagree. While we don't behave like chimps, the leaders in our societies, the alphas, tend to get on top by cheating/stealing and stay on top by oppressing others with their resources. It's not physical violence, and the degree of selfishness is not as high, but comparing our leaders to monkey alphas is a good metaphor.

Post: #11

using the word manosphere within quotation marks reveals much of the motivation behind the thread and poster

Post: #12

Relevant - http://alphagameplan.blogspot.co.uk/2011...archy.html

Post: #13

We've also discussed situational Alphas. Men are mostly what they do, not what they communicate.

So the quiet awkward guy can suddenly transform into an Alpha when you see him on the lacrosse field or when he's on stage with his guitar or any number of things. These are two obvious examples. But I know a lot of guys who get Alpha cred because they're really good in one specific area and their respect from both men and women overrides any Beta traits.

Of course, all this will come crashing down in the narrow context of a marriage or relationship where lack of game will expose the Inner Beta. But for gaining the attention of females in general and the respect of men, being great at something will often do.

Post: #14

OP isn't really wrong, he's just asking to get date raped by the ban hammer.

Post: #15

(06-14-2014 10:36 PM)Daddy Wrote:  "In conclusion, the Alpha/Beta hierarchy is a very poor metaphor for human social relationships. "

I disagree. While we don't behave like chimps, the leaders in our societies, the alphas, tend to get on top by cheating/stealing and stay on top by oppressing others with their resources. It's not physical violence, and the degree of selfishness is not as high, but comparing our leaders to monkey alphas is a good metaphor.

That's a very western, capitalistic way of looking at it.

Being a dirty player isn't necessary across the board worldwide if I'm not mistaken. There are a lot of men in direct control of their lives and successful without playing to cruelty.

As far as the national leaders go, you can't legitimately say how the leaders of the accomplished their goals or arrived where they did with certainty of knowing. That much should be left to personal speculation, not a basis of systematic thinking

Post: #16

Hmm, what to make of this Gladiator?

Post: #17

Was this beta?

Post: #18

Considering that humans don't live in small groups but in the millions it is possible to have many alphas. Beta primates do the majority of work but get very little chances at sex. I would say the alpha/beta analogy is very applicable.

Post: #19

To a degree the Alpha Beta and Sigma Omega Gamma definitions are a bit fluid.

The Alpha state is just that - a state, that can sometimes even change over the years to a more predominantly Beta state.
I think there has been a lot said about it, though some perceptions are being still added to it.

In the manosphere the Alpha-Beta states are not a "hierarchy" per se, but are most exemplary when assessing relationships with women. You can be an extremely powerful Beta who is a situational Alpha and gets a notch-count of 1000 because he is a famous actor. His behavior however catches up with him - Paul McCartney is such an example, where he was excellently played by a one-legged bitch, because despite his fame and success he was just a clueless Blue-Pill-Beta-Chode.

Sometimes the manosphere uses the term Uber-Alphas for the Eyes-Wide-Shut-Society of men who are the top movers and shakers. Some of those guys might very well be Alphas, some just inherited their wealth and position and might be Betas. Either way - they call the shots in our world anyway.

Seems like the post is either written by a woman, a male feminist, an Omega or a guy who is bored because his favourite site Puahate is still down.

Post: #20

No, I'm not a troll, I just get tired of seeing terms from the ethological sciences like "alpha" and "beta" being used completely out of context with their original meaning. I feel that this hierarchy is not only false, but damaging. Men are at war with the feminist army, and they’re losing, in part, because they also have dissention in their own ranks. We constantly demean each other with this “alpha-beta” scale, elevating some guys above others simply because they are able to get laid more often.

Post: #21

(06-15-2014 02:36 AM)Gladiator Wrote:  No, I'm not a troll, I just get tired of seeing terms from the ethological sciences like "alpha" and "beta" being used completely out of context with their original meaning. I feel that this hierarchy is not only false, but damaging. Men are at war with the feminist army, and they’re losing, in part, because they also have dissention in their own ranks. We constantly demean each other with this “alpha-beta” scale, elevating some guys above others simply because they are able to get laid more often.

The above is an obvious imposter who uses lots of quotes and P.C. words like "demean" and "dissension" and obviously doesnt understand the concept of self improvement.

Feminist troll spotted.

Post: #22

(06-15-2014 02:36 AM)Gladiator Wrote:  No, I'm not a troll, I just get tired of seeing terms from the ethological sciences like "alpha" and "beta" being used completely out of context with their original meaning. I feel that this hierarchy is not only false, but damaging. Men are at war with the feminist army, and they’re losing, in part, because they also have dissention in their own ranks. We constantly demean each other with this “alpha-beta” scale, elevating some guys above others simply because they are able to get laid more often.

Men do not use the word 'tired' when describing how they FELT when reading something.

Newsflash: there is a hierarchy and that's the way it is. Would you rather level everyone like *cough cough* a Socialist, so everyone can feel happy and talk about puppies, rainbows and unicorns?

Secondly, you said men are losing to the feminists. Says who?

Go change your tampon before you get banned.

Post: #23

Yes, i know humans have hierarchies, i acknowledged that in my first post. Even a "socialist" society would have hierarchies. What I'm saying is that this Alpha/Beta/Omega hierarchy belongs to the Ethological field. It only causes confusion when it is applied metaphorically to describe human social relations.

Post: #24

Gladiator the whole point is that no guys are better than other guys because game can enable a guy to from beta to alpha.. And we use these terms because they are the way that women see us.

A woman will see you as one or the other. If you want to get laid, then she had to see you as alpha.

It's not a value judgement on our part.. In fact it seems as if the whole point if the redpill thing is to get some power back the betas, be cause we believe that you need them to keep society going, and they have a reason for why they work so hard.

And it isn't out of context.. In the animal world, the alpha gets dibbs on reproduction. Just look at Pyris the bear who was so alpha that they decided that he should be castrated.

Post: #25

In the animal world, the 'alpha' essentially bullies everyone else into submission, both through his own ferocity and through making alliances with other males (the betas, and so on). The Alpha does not owe his reproductive success to any kind of 'seduction' of the females.