Post: #1

I'd like to share the "Apex Predator Diet" with you guys. It was thought up by Jamie Lewis who runs the popular Chaos and Pain blog. For those of you who don't know who he is, the guy has broke all kinds of powerlifting records in his weight class (http://www.powerliftingwatch.com/node/20800) so he walks the walk and seems to be genuine.

Jamie explains the diet in several posts, the first of which is found here (Warning: NSFW images).

His posts are, however, a little hard to follow so here are the Cliff's Notes:

Who is it for?

Primarily, the Apex Predator Diet is for lifters who want to cut down without losing hard-earned muscle. If you don't train regularly with weights then this isn't for you - just do a standard keto diet.

The basics

- Initial 10-14 day keto run with no cheating to ensure ketosis.
- 1 meat meal (ideally on-the-bone) once a day with no carbs.
- 3-5 low-carb protein shakes per day (the aim is to get 1.5-2.0x bodyweight in protein). This is to ensure you hold on to lean muscle while you lose body fat.
- One carb-up day per week where you go nuts, depending on your current body fat (people with higher bf% should cheat in a more restrained way).
- No calorie counting, just eat until you feel like you've had enough.
- Calories are cycled - there is 1 day where you eat more than one solid meal per day. There is another day each week where you do a Protein Sparing Modified Fast (no solid food- your only intake is protein shakes). If I'm correct, this "randomness factor" is designed to keep the body guessing and, as a result, burn fat quicker.
- 5-6 days of lifting per week (you could conceivably do less but the diet as given is designed to give you enough energy to lift heavy while you lose fat)

The above is not a precise recommendation. Jamie encourages experimentation. For example, if you feel shitty and tired during training all week then you probably didn't eat enough carbs on the cheat day. On the other hand, if you didn't lose any weight then you may have gone overboard on the pizza. If you want to accelerate fat loss or you are just plain masochistic, then you can throw in another PSMF day.

Why this over a normal cut?

- It's fun. If you like your meat then this is an awesome diet. I've been having ribs, wings, steaks, sausages...you name it.
- You feel...primal. Eating meat off the bone is how our ancestors ate so this one step closer.
- The massive protein intake allows you to maintain muscle while actually gaining strength. Depending on your experience, your mileage may vary of course.
- It has a badass name!

What sucks about it?

- The 1 day each week where you don't eat any solid food. I just stay home and read a book because my mood is usually foul this day. Otherwise, it's a breeze.

My results

Started April 25 so I'm 6 weeks in. I've lost 7 kg in that time, going from around 18% body fat to 12% (mirror estimation out of my arse). Still a lot of work to do but I'm close to abs for the first time in my life.

My (admittedly poor) lifts have also been going up since doing this, but my training has been far from perfect - lack of sleep and work are the culprits. That said, I'm happy with my results, considering I've only been lifting for 1 year and started off extremely skinny and weak.

Sorry the pictures are shitty as I took them on my old phone, but they give you an idea of the progress made in 6 weeks.

Before pics (April 2014):
http://oi62.tinypic.com/vwpu2v.jpg
http://oi58.tinypic.com/qr101s.jpg

After pics (June 2014):
http://oi62.tinypic.com/2z4y9gm.jpg
http://oi60.tinypic.com/35naatf.jpg

Other links

Don't just take my word for it. Others have reviewed the diet here and here.

P.S I have no affiliation whatsoever with Jamie Lewis or his blog, but this is a diet that I thought a lot of guys here might want to try. I know that I plan to stay on this diet for the indefinite future. It's a great way to get lean.

Post: #2

Looks legit, though i take most of Jamies claims with a grain of salt. Especially when it comes to things like diet and steroids.

Post: #3

I've had success with IF. I've had success with keto. They work better together synergistically

Check out http://www.reddit.com/r/Cheatmode

this is where Apex got ideas

http://www.silverhydra.com/2011/03/cheat...ial-guide/

Post: #4

Jamie Lewis is the shit and always has been. I'm glad to see that other forum members read his blog. I've been doing C&P workouts for two months now and everything went up like forty pounds.

Post: #5

Bump. Anyone doing this?

I've got some extra body fat and need to make some changes.

Rapid Fat Loss is intriguing but I can't stop training.

Post: #6

The issue with this diet is the super high protein will knock you out of ketosis as a large amount of amino acids are glucogenic and get converted to glucose. You don't have to be in ketosis to get benefits from low-carb dieting but it's quite different physiologically. That's why ketogenic diets are super low carb, super high fat, moderate protein (.5-.8g/lb BW). Also, that much protein powder gives me insane gas and lacks the fiber/micronutrients you could get form whole food meals.

For cutting I'd recommend regular keto and/or IF over this. Recently I've been doing a 18-6 IF fast and it keeps my satiety levels in check to such a degree that I have to pig out to hit my macros or else I lose weight. Took a few days for hunger pains to disappear during 18 hour daily fast. Same goes if you do a shorter window like 14 or 16 hours. Still not entirely on the fence for IF while bulking but definitely on team IF for cutting.

What does your diet look like currently? Are you in a caloric deficit or surplus?

Post: #7

(09-24-2016 01:17 AM)Balkan Wrote:  The issue with this diet is the super high protein will knock you out of ketosis as a large amount of amino acids are glucogenic and get converted to glucose. You don't have to be in ketosis to get benefits from low-carb dieting but it's quite different physiologically. That's why ketogenic diets are super low carb, super high fat, moderate protein (.5-.8g/lb BW).

Jamie addressed that here:

"But where are the benefits for a heavy lifter, you might ask? For starters, an intake of greater than 1 gram per pound of bodyweight, in addition to being comically easy to consume, results in a positive nitrogen and negative fat balance.(Forslund) Even larger amounts (>1.5grams/lb. of bodyweight) will stimulate significant muscle growth, and the unused protein will be oxidized and excreted, wholly without deleterious side effects, by healthy kidneys.(Fern) This diet, being somewhat lower in fat and higher in protein than the typical ketogenic diet, will obviously result in some glucogenesis, which is for some reason strikes in a bunch of you terror not unlike that which small children used to reserve for the bogeyman and Michael Jackson. Glucogenesis, or the process by which the body converts protein to energy to replace lost muscle glycogen, occurs irrespective of the type of diet one follows. 5-15% of the amino acids you consume are going to be used as fuel in weight training, and endurance sports utilize an even greater percentage to repair the extensive damage caused by whatever shenanigans in which they happen to be engaging.(Bernadot 31) In short, more protein is good, and a shitload more protein is a even better. Thus, according to both common sense and a meta-analysis, the following is true: Unless you’re suffering from renal failure, you can eat protein to your heart’s content, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar spouting hippie bullshit, and is possibly a communist.(Martin)"

I'm not here to debate science, I'm here to discuss results. There are countless people in the Rapid Fat Loss thread who are not worried about glucose, but instead worried about how to keep all the bitches hands off their six packs.

Quote:Also, that much protein powder gives me insane gas and lacks the fiber/micronutrients you could get form whole food meals.

Switch to a high grade whey isolate to stop gas. Then add fiber + Barlean's Greens after workout (you're allowed 30g carbs).

Back to my post, has anyone tried the Apex Predator Diet lately?

Post: #8

(09-24-2016 12:56 AM)redbeard Wrote:  Bump. Anyone doing this?

I tried but my local supermarket didn't stock seal and antelope.

Post: #9

Cool man, sounds like you found the diet for you. This doesn't change the fact that this is not ketogenic, which is what I was arguing. You don't have to cut on a keto diet but let's not take my words out of context.

(09-24-2016 11:29 AM)redbeard Wrote:  I'm not here to debate science, I'm here to discuss results. There are countless people in the Rapid Fat Loss thread who are not worried about glucose, but instead worried about how to keep all the bitches hands off their six packs.

Hahah okay. I guess everyone cutting low carb is playing the wrong game.

Post: #10

IF is definitely the way to go, it is how we ate fro the large part of our evolution, feast or famine. However not everyone does well during keto.
Very important to drink lots of water to clear the ketones from your urine.

Post: #11

I want to give this a shot when I get the money.

I'll be living on beef ribs, chicken wings, and roasts with one day where I get to smash a pizza, breadsticks, and a sixer of beer.

Post: #12

I've been experimenting with my own Apex Predator protocol. I'll be updating this thread with any problems or observations.

1. No fiber for more than a day = terrible diarrhea. I'm now making sure to eat fiber with my solid meals, and try to get 50g a day.

2. The PSMF sucked at first. I've been doing 16-8 IF for two years now, but fuck I got hungry around 2 PM just doing shakes.

There were two problems, first I wasn't getting enough protein. I was doing maybe 4 shakes of 25g, for a total of 100g. I dug in my copy of Nutritional Psycho and found that Jamie recommends "4-7 shakes of 40-60g each," which brings the daily range from 160-420g. I've since been doing 4 shakes of 50g and it's been great.

The next problem is that Jamie recommends a blended protein for satiety purposes. I was only consuming whey, so I ordered a custom blend from TrueNutrition that's 40% Whey, 40% Casein, and 20% Egg White. I highly recommend TrueNutrition by the way, not only can I get blended mixes like this but they have casein with no artificial sweeteners or BS for like $12/lb. My mix will arrive next week and I'll report back.

(09-29-2016 06:09 PM)Hannibal Wrote:  I want to give this a shot when I get the money.

I'll be living on beef ribs, chicken wings, and roasts with one day where I get to smash a pizza, breadsticks, and a sixer of beer.

I'll post numbers later, but I think I'm saving money. A scoop of whey is what...$1? If I drink 10 scoops during the day, that's breakfast and lunch for $10, not bad at all.

Jamie answered about his food bill here.

While quoting this I realized he employs El Mech's daygame hack by grocery shopping everyday

Quote:I generally shop daily, because I kind of enjoy grocery shopping and it's become an unbreakable habit. I'm assuming that this question is regarding my eating habits on the Apex Predator Diet, which everyone seems to think is a recipe for financial ruin. In spite of my degrees, I've never had a particularly well-paying job (at least insofar as what I was taught to expect after obtaining an MBA), and I've still managed to use this diet since around 2007.

My diet on the APD varies a bit, so I will use a variety of foods to give you a weekly bill.
9 lbs pork ribs: $36
9 lbs beef ribs: $22.5
1.5 lbs Bone in Ribeye: $10
5 lbs Vitamin Shoppe Whey: $50
Large Pizza: $12
Lunch at Chipotle: $10
Bag of Baked Lays: $3
20 piece McNuggets: $5
Movie popcorn: $6
Total: $154.5/week, so $618 a month, including my "entertainment" meal.

That's a rough estimate because I rotate my foods somewhat, but I would say that it is between $15 and $30 a day. As for you bodyweight and caloric needs, it really doesn't take that much in the way of calories to get to 175. I went from 150 to 175 in a few years eating chicken, rice, and broccoli three times a day, or Chipotle bowls of double chicken and rice, plus a couple of protein shakes. That probably wasn't too much over 2000 calories a day, and I steadily gained weight from 135 to 175 over the course of a few years. Then I played with macros until I leaned out and got bigger at the same weight, then kept leaning out and getting bigger.

Post: #13

When he says ribs, you can put herbs and spices on it, right? Just avoid sugar?

Post: #14

Yes please do, unless you want to go full primal and eat raw meat....I'll pass

Pure herbs and spices have 0 calories. Use as much as you want.

Adding spices to ribs is one of my favorite activities, it's fun to mix everything up and see how it tastes. Letting them relish in the oven for hours makes for interesting results!

When I'm lazy, I use this Stubb's BBQ Spice Rub. It's a Texas dry rub. You yankees might not be able to find it but I can get it at grocery stores near me. This stuff is good by itself.

Ingredients: Sea Salt, Paprika, Spices, Garlic, Ground Turmeric, Natural Smoke Flavor

0 Calories, 0 nonsense, 100% flavor.

Post: #15

tl;dr - trying to get my understanding of diet, body fat, muscle creation sorted out. I would like to use this Apex diet. My post is a bit disjointed - because I don't have the greatest handle on the relationship between muscle formation and keeping fat off. I have always just lifted heavy and then did rfl or something like that.

Ok, I have doing some bro science research as I am trying to figure out an eating plan to follow after finishing RFL. As mentioned in some other posts, I want to get back some of the muscle lost. I have been trying to get an understanding of how muscle is created and then tie it to a diet I can follow. I love to eat, so RFL has been a bit of a challenge.

In my readings, muscle is created through a positive nitrogen balance. This is mainly generated from eating enough protein. The things that negatively impact nitrogen balance would be over training, poor sleep, and inadequate protein.

Stating the obvious but sugar is bad for you. Since it triggers an insulin response which then would create fat. http://www.gll-getalife.com/get-ripped/d...ke-you-fat

In the above link - GLL actually ate 7000 calories a day in fried cheese and still lost weight (some was water). His point was sugar was bad, but protein and fat are fine. I don't know if he had any blood work done. But what I have read it is the carbs that fuck up your cholesterol.

Where am I getting with all of this? I'm trying to understand the basics. I want to keep fat off while adding muscle. Not having to count calories would be nice.

Apex seems to provide such an option. But on RFL, my lifts are difficult because I don't have a lot of glucose in my muscles when I lift. The body does convert some protein to glucose but it doesn't seem like it is in large quantities. The apex predator diet (http://chaosandpain.blogspot.no/2012/02/...741d66ee06) says you can have 30g of carbs a day. I am dealing with that now and I just am not able to connect where this extra energy is going to come from to lift like an animal. The rampage refeed day? I do something similiar on rfl and it is good for the next day's lift but that is about it.

Eating this much would definitely kill the hunger pains.

Questions
1) When doing a refeed - let's say 500g of carbs- how many days does that cover for lifting? Good enough for only the day after lifting? I just don't wanna have shit energy any more when lifting.
2) I have read that it takes a couple of days of bad eating to get out of ketosis - so one day of rampaging won't get you out of ketosis - true?
3) The shakes part is what I will have trouble with - not sure if I can find high quality whey protein. I have a few bags of good stuff with me - but based on 5 to 7 shakes a day - I'll go through a bag in a few days. Any other options? Just eat more meat?
4) On a cheat day/rampage day - is sugar gonna really destroy me? I enjoy some items with sugar. One day a week, the end of the world?
5) In looking at other diets, some say to get 300g of carbs - that is quite a bit of pasta. Which I don't mind but the quantity is large. I know I should be eating complex carbs but just referring to volume of carbs.
6) On Apex - can you have salads? I happen to like Caesar or ranch dressing - they are low carb a viable option?
7) Anyone just do calorie cycling? Every day different amount of calories?

Thanks.

Original articles on this diet.
NSFW
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.no/2012/02/...741d66ee06
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.no/2012/02/...r-fat.html
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.no/2012/03/...-less.html
http://chaosandpain.blogspot.no/2012/03/...dator.html

Article by Lyle Mcdonald on gaining muscle, reasonable expectations and approach http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-...gain.html/

p.s. thanks to Hannibal for giving me some things to think about in PMs.

Post: #16

Sam, I doubt anyone (besides Hannibal) will chime in here, so I'll give you a very Jamie answer:

Try it out for yourself.

Even Jamie admits he's not a stickler with this. Listen to your body - that's how Jamie found this version of the diet, because he experimented and found what worked for him.

I think RFL has frightened you into thinking your lifts will suck unless you eat. I used to think that too when I started doing this. The first few shake workout days were tough. I thought I'd throw up the entire time.

Turns out? It was fine. I'd walk in and hype myself up saying "you're a fucking badass spartan you don't need food. Fuck these pussies with their solid food, what do they know?" Then I'd lift like a maniac.

Key to success with Apex Predator:

-Sleep
-Have tons of shakes. Seriously, having one more is what...100-200 calories? It will not make you get fat.
-Eat a shit ton of saturated fat at night. You'll be getting protein during the day so you need to get that fat in your meal. On Apex days I would eat an entire rack of ribs OR two steaks and 6-12 eggs.
-You ask where the energy to work out comes from...it's saturated fat (ketosis) and heavy stimulants (look at c&p's shop)

Keep us updated. I haven't been doing this in a while (travel) but will be starting it up again soon.