Post: #1

FROM THE TELEGRAPH (Serious newspaper in the UK).


Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds.

Fasting for as little as three days can regenerate the entire immune system, even in the elderly, scientists have found in a breakthrough described as "remarkable".

Although fasting diets have been criticised by nutritionists for being unhealthy, new research suggests starving the body kick-starts stem cells into producing new white blood cells, which fight off infection.

Scientists at the University of Southern California say the discovery could be particularly beneficial for people suffering from damaged immune systems, such as cancer patients on chemotherapy.

It could also help the elderly whose immune system becomes less effective as they age, making it harder for them to fight off even common diseases.

The researchers say fasting "flips a regenerative switch" which prompts stem cells to create brand new white blood cells, essentially regenerating the entire immune system.

"It gives the 'OK' for stem cells to go ahead and begin proliferating and rebuild the entire system," said Prof Valter Longo, Professor of Gerontology and the Biological Sciences at the University of California.

"And the good news is that the body got rid of the parts of the system that might be damaged or old, the inefficient parts, during the fasting.

“Now, if you start with a system heavily damaged by chemotherapy or ageing, fasting cycles can generate, literally, a new immune system."
Prolonged fasting forces the body to use stores of glucose and fat but also breaks down a significant portion of white blood cells.

During each cycle of fasting, this depletion of white blood cells induces changes that trigger stem cell-based regeneration of new immune system cells.

In trials humans were asked to regularly fast for between two and four days over a six-month period.
Scientists found that prolonged fasting also reduced the enzyme PKA, which is linked to ageing and a hormone which increases cancer risk and tumour growth.
"We could not predict that prolonged fasting would have such a remarkable effect in promoting stem cell-based regeneration of the hematopoietic system," added Prof Longo.

"When you starve, the system tries to save energy, and one of the things it can do to save energy is to recycle a lot of the immune cells that are not needed, especially those that may be damaged," Dr Longo said.

"What we started noticing in both our human work and animal work is that the white blood cell count goes down with prolonged fasting. Then when you re-feed, the blood cells come back. So we started thinking, well, where does it come from?"

Fasting for 72 hours also protected cancer patients against the toxic impact of chemotherapy.
"While chemotherapy saves lives, it causes significant collateral damage to the immune system. The results of this study suggest that fasting may mitigate some of the harmful effects of chemotherapy," said co-author Tanya Dorff, assistant professor of clinical medicine at the USC Norris Comprehensive Cancer Center and Hospital.

"More clinical studies are needed, and any such dietary intervention should be undertaken only under the guidance of a physician.”
"We are investigating the possibility that these effects are applicable to many different systems and organs, not just the immune system," added Prof Longo.

However, some British experts were sceptical of the research.
Dr Graham Rook, emeritus professor of immunology at University College London, said the study sounded "improbable".

Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said: “There is some interesting data here. It sees that fasting reduces the number and size of cells and then re-feeding at 72 hours saw a rebound.

“That could be potentially useful because that is not such a long time that it would be terribly harmful to someone with cancer.
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. People are better eating on a regular basis.”

Dr Longo added: “There is no evidence at all that fasting would be dangerous while there is strong evidence that it is beneficial.
“I have received emails from hundreds of cancer patients who have combined chemo with fasting, many with the assistance of the oncologists.

“Thus far the great majority have reported doing very well and only a few have reported some side effects including fainting and a temporary increase in liver markers. Clearly we need to finish the clinical trials, but it looks very promising.”


I've heard many anecdotal health benefits from fasting before.

Anyone know what fasting actually means? (no food at all or tiny calories? water ok? etc).

Fascinating either way.

Post: #2

(06-08-2014 08:09 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  FROM THE TELEGRAPH (Serious newspaper in the UK).

Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds.

Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said:
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. ”

Clearly, pharmaceuticals are the answer here! Trials, patents, and billions of dollars! And just maybe they can replicate to some degree what the body does naturally. With a few side effects from unknown other processes that the drugs set in motion.

Fuck these guys, the system they serve is set up to keep you sick and make corporations money.

Post: #3

"Diabetes and many similar modern ailments seem to be associated with a lack of randomness in feeding and the absence of the stressor of occasional starvation." - Nassim Taleb

Post: #4

(06-08-2014 08:09 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  Anyone know what fasting actually means? (no food at all or tiny calories? water ok? etc).

Strict fasting: no food, just water.

Post: #5

(06-08-2014 08:23 PM)RawGod Wrote:  

(06-08-2014 08:09 PM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  FROM THE TELEGRAPH (Serious newspaper in the UK).

Fasting for three days can regenerate entire immune system, study finds.

Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said:
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. ”

Clearly, pharmaceuticals are the answer here! Trials, patents, and billions of dollars! And just maybe they can replicate to some degree what the body does naturally. With a few side effects from unknown other processes that the drugs set in motion.

Fuck these guys, the system they serve is set up to keep you sick and make corporations money.

Yep, it's sad and pathetic. God forbid we could find cheap and effective cures for illness.

This isn't that surprising though. Every animal when sick goes and lies down, not eating anything until healthy. Same with us, there is no appetite at all when sick. Starve the disease of nutrients and then regenerate white blood cells, makes sense.

Could probably be a good idea to do a fast every month.

Didn't see mention of what kind of fast it was, vitamins included or not?

Post: #6

Fasting once a month for 2 or 3 days is one of the best things you can do for your health. It gives your system time to reset, and clear out your bowels.

Post: #7

I'm down for trying a 72 hour fast every month, start after lunchtime on a Friday, fast all of the weekend, then break the fast at lunchtime on Monday.

Will do it next weekend! I have been doing IF a few days a week for a while too which is just a 16 hour fast and 8 hour feeding window.

I once did a 10 day lemon detox fast - master cleanse. I think the maple syrup and cayenne pepper are unnecessary. I'd just do a lemon water fast for 3 days instead of the lemon detox for 10 days.





Science of Fasting trailer

Anyone got a link to this in full? I found the Japanese version on youtube but it's no good for me

Post: #8

I wonder how it helps people who feel shitty from too much drinking. One of the gnarliest effects of boozing too much is what it does to your immune system - I've heard heavy alcohol consumption compared to purposely giving yourself HIV.

If these results are real, I imagine a 2-day fast could do wonders for someone who had recently quit or was trying to get their life back in order and wanted to get past that shitty stage you go through when your liver and body is healing from the damage of drugs or booze.

By the way, what is this shit?:

Quote:Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said: “There is some interesting data here. It sees that fasting reduces the number and size of cells and then re-feeding at 72 hours saw a rebound.

“That could be potentially useful because that is not such a long time that it would be terribly harmful to someone with cancer.
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. People are better eating on a regular basis.”

So he refuses the findings of an actualy study by throwing a truism at it and not at least quoting some of his own evidence to the contrary?

I hope this is just a snapshot of what he actually said because if not what a sloppy fucking argument.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #9

I've been fasting for 18-24 Hours 1x a week for about a year and it's gold! It gives you that ripped look that looks so natural. At the same time it just does something that improves your metabolism.

Post: #10

(06-09-2014 03:46 AM)2014 Wrote:  Anyone got a link to this in full? I found the Japanese version on youtube but it's no good for me

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1...finds.html

EDIT: oops - thought you meant the link to the article...

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #11

To those of you who have done or do fast; are you able to function at all whilst fasting? Or do you have to just hole up and push through?

I feel my mental performance wavering if I haven't eaten for 10-12 hours; does this pass?

As for the guy in the article talking about creating a drug to mimic the effect; I can sort of see what he is saying. Most people would't have the mental discipline to fast for three days so a drug that could give the same benefits would probably be a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

Post: #12

(06-09-2014 06:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  To those of you who have done or do fast; are you able to function at all whilst fasting? Or do you have to just hole up and push through?

I feel my mental performance wavering if I haven't eaten for 10-12 hours; does this pass?

As for the guy in the article talking about creating a drug to mimic the effect; I can sort of see what he is saying. Most people would't have the mental discipline to fast for three days so a drug that could give the same benefits would probably be a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

For me the mental discipline has always been one of the biggest reasons to fast. We live in a society that never has to go without, and I think it's important to remember what that is like sometimes. Increases your appreciation of things, makes you tougher, builds your willpower, and resets your appetite if you tend to overeat.

Anyways, yeah, I find the mental performance low energy thing does pass. After a day or two, I start hitting a peak where my mind feels alert and I have a ton of energy. It's been a while but that's how I remember it.

But make sure to stay hydrated.

Unless fasting has negative effects and the study is wrong, that guy can take his theoretical drug and shove it up his ass. The last thing society needs is more band-aid solutions, and if fasting really does have this effect, people need to man up and do it. The more times you did it, the easier it would get.

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit rigid - I'm sure the drug would have its place. I for one would rather just not eat if the effects were the same though. Not only that but its free (and even saves you money as you're on a food deficit).

If the results are true, why give more power to the pharmaceutical companies when they continually fuck up what nature does best?

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

(06-09-2014 05:40 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  I've been fasting for 18-24 Hours 1x a week for about a year and it's gold! It gives you that ripped look that looks so natural. At the same time it just does something that improves your metabolism.

Is it true when we fast, the body starts metabolising muscle?

As a tall ectomorph, the threat of muscle loss is ever there.

Post: #14

(06-09-2014 06:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 06:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  To those of you who have done or do fast; are you able to function at all whilst fasting? Or do you have to just hole up and push through?

I feel my mental performance wavering if I haven't eaten for 10-12 hours; does this pass?

As for the guy in the article talking about creating a drug to mimic the effect; I can sort of see what he is saying. Most people would't have the mental discipline to fast for three days so a drug that could give the same benefits would probably be a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

For me the mental discipline has always been one of the biggest reasons to fast. We live in a society that never has to go without, and I think it's important to remember what that is like sometimes. Increases your appreciation of things, makes you tougher, builds your willpower, and resets your appetite if you tend to overeat.

Anyways, yeah, I find the mental performance low energy thing does pass. After a day or two, I start hitting a peak where my mind feels alert and I have a ton of energy. It's been a while but that's how I remember it.

But make sure to stay hydrated.

Unless fasting has negative effects and the study is wrong, that guy can take his theoretical drug and shove it up his ass. The last thing society needs is more band-aid solutions, and if fasting really does have this effect, people need to man up and do it. The more times you did it, the easier it would get.

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit rigid - I'm sure the drug would have its place. I for one would rather just not eat if the effects were the same though. Not only that but its free (and even saves you money as you're on a food deficit).

If the results are true, why give more power to the pharmaceutical companies when they continually fuck up what nature does best?

It's the same as taking drugs for early diabetes 2 when it seems common knowledge that losing weight and exercising sorts the problem out; people are lazy and stupid on the whole and incapable of helping themselves.

Now I am all for letting them eat cake but society doesn't seem to think that way.

I think I am going to give this fasting thing a try as an experiment in a few weeks when I have some free time; there doesn't seem to be a downside in giving it a go.

Post: #15

(06-09-2014 06:21 AM)N°6 Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 05:40 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  I've been fasting for 18-24 Hours 1x a week for about a year and it's gold! It gives you that ripped look that looks so natural. At the same time it just does something that improves your metabolism.

Is it true when we fast, the body starts metabolising muscle?

As a tall ectomorph, the threat of muscle loss is ever there.

Yes but it doesn't eat up muscle as fast as bodybuilder hysteria about this would make you believe.

When fasting - train your muscles lightly everyday and you will lose close to no muscle if the body feels that muscles is required. The standard approach of working a muscle group once per week till failure and then resting may not be the best for fasting trough.

Post: #16

(06-09-2014 06:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  For me the mental discipline has always been one of the biggest reasons to fast. We live in a society that never has to go without, and I think it's important to remember what that is like sometimes. Increases your appreciation of things, makes you tougher, builds your willpower, and resets your appetite if you tend to overeat.

Anyways, yeah, I find the mental performance low energy thing does pass. After a day or two, I start hitting a peak where my mind feels alert and I have a ton of energy. It's been a while but that's how I remember it.

But make sure to stay hydrated.

Unless fasting has negative effects and the study is wrong, that guy can take his theoretical drug and shove it up his ass. The last thing society needs is more band-aid solutions, and if fasting really does have this effect, people need to man up and do it. The more times you did it, the easier it would get.

Okay, maybe I'm being a bit rigid - I'm sure the drug would have its place. I for one would rather just not eat if the effects were the same though. Not only that but its free (and even saves you money as you're on a food deficit).

If the results are true, why give more power to the pharmaceutical companies when they continually fuck up what nature does best?

Couldn't agree more.

It's free, you can start NOW, as in right now while you are reading this, just stop eating for 72 hours!

It works, studies have finally proven what old healers have always said, and even big Jesus Christ went on about it in the Bible. Muslims do it (kinda) during Ramadan for a month of what is essentially IF (you can ONLY eat at night). We see it in nature when animals get sick.

The problem for the pharma world is clearly this - we can't monetize it!

Post: #17

(06-09-2014 06:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  To those of you who have done or do fast; are you able to function at all whilst fasting? Or do you have to just hole up and push through?

I feel my mental performance wavering if I haven't eaten for 10-12 hours; does this pass?

As for the guy in the article talking about creating a drug to mimic the effect; I can sort of see what he is saying. Most people would't have the mental discipline to fast for three days so a drug that could give the same benefits would probably be a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

My mental performance weakens too while on fast. But My animal instincts become sharper. There are some tasks which I perform better with a full stomach and some tasks which I perform better on empty stomach. Studying, working on computer and playing strategy games or board games go better with eating and I bet this is why office drones tend to overeat.

Sports, action games, driving, negotiating, delegating and also picking up women go better in fasted mode for me. My fasted pickup is a powerful thing - I enter the animalistic reality where mating happens trough body language, exchanges of eye contact, touches and body aroma. Words are of little meaning in this dimension and a completely silent pickup is achievable.

Fasting awakens some more alpha reserves in me.

Post: #18

(06-09-2014 08:37 AM)Mage Wrote:  I enter the animalistic reality where mating happens trough body language, exchanges of eye contact, touches and body aroma. Words are of little meaning in this dimension and a completely silent pickup is achievable.

A completely silent pickup? While sober?

You better just go ahead and tell this story.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #19

(06-09-2014 08:40 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 08:37 AM)Mage Wrote:  I enter the animalistic reality where mating happens trough body language, exchanges of eye contact, touches and body aroma. Words are of little meaning in this dimension and a completely silent pickup is achievable.

A completely silent pickup? While sober?

You better just go ahead and tell this story.

If this is good I can imagine food sales falling through the floor in RVF member households

Post: #20

Is there much benefit to a 2 day or 3 day fast over a 1 day fast?

Post: #21

More info from the Daily Beast, with a little more detail on the fasting: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/20...ystem.html

Quote:Valter Longo, one of the team’s researchers, explained to The Daily Beast that a “mimicking” fast diet of 750-1050 calories per day for at least 4 or 5 days is sufficient to kick the body in a regenerative state. “Any fasting is better than nothing,” he said, “ [but] 4 to 5 days of fasting are necessary to maximize it’s effects, but they must be done under medical supervision and preferably in a clinic.”

Longo explains that humans can safely do this diet every 1 to 3 months.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #22

This is another reason why I laugh at people in the white costs and overall modern science/research. This stuff about fasting has been practiced and well know in classic and ancient groups for hundreds if not thousands of years. The idea of fasting as a means of making you stronger (and keeping you humble) were always the main goals. Humans never are like we do today. The snacking and grazing we do is t the norm as we would eat larger meals less times per day versus, little, small, servings throughout.

When I was on IF I would 24hr fast once a week. I've done the 3-day once and 2-day a bunch of times but I find you have to put time aside from it. I can work on that first day but we day two, the third day I really just rest as I wouldn't have the energy to do much. Doing it on a weekend (staring Thursday night) would be ideal and then breaking Sunday night with a large feast.

Post: #23

(06-09-2014 06:10 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(06-09-2014 06:06 AM)CrashBangWallop Wrote:  To those of you who have done or do fast; are you able to function at all whilst fasting? Or do you have to just hole up and push through?

I feel my mental performance wavering if I haven't eaten for 10-12 hours; does this pass?

As for the guy in the article talking about creating a drug to mimic the effect; I can sort of see what he is saying. Most people would't have the mental discipline to fast for three days so a drug that could give the same benefits would probably be a good thing in the grand scheme of things.

For me the mental discipline has always been one of the biggest reasons to fast. We live in a society that never has to go without, and I think it's important to remember what that is like sometimes. Increases your appreciation of things, makes you tougher, builds your willpower, and resets your appetite if you tend to overeat.

Great quote. I personally went and lived in an eco-tourism farm in the middle of the jungle in India, without even electricity, for 6 months. This changed me in many ways, and after I re-emerged back into normal society, I felt a 100 times stronger than I was before.

That is one of the problems of the modern world, is that people do not ever experience any real hardship in their life and so they become weak as a result. Go live off the grid somewhere for 6 months, and you'll feel like a superhuman afterwards.

Post: #24

(06-09-2014 05:38 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  By the way, what is this shit?:

Quote:Chris Mason, Professor of Regenerative Medicine at UCL, said: “There is some interesting data here. It sees that fasting reduces the number and size of cells and then re-feeding at 72 hours saw a rebound.

“That could be potentially useful because that is not such a long time that it would be terribly harmful to someone with cancer.
“But I think the most sensible way forward would be to synthesize this effect with drugs. I am not sure fasting is the best idea. People are better eating on a regular basis.”

So he refuses the findings of an actualy study by throwing a truism at it and not at least quoting some of his own evidence to the contrary?

I hope this is just a snapshot of what he actually said because if not what a sloppy fucking argument.

Read again the paragraph you quoted. He never refused the findings.

Post: #25

(06-09-2014 05:40 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  I've been fasting for 18-24 Hours 1x a week for about a year and it's gold! It gives you that ripped look that looks so natural. At the same time it just does something that improves your metabolism.

No water as well or is that cool?
Have you tried even longer fasting periods or more frequent, if so, what kind of results did that bring?