Post: #51

On a related note:
http://www.chinasmack.com/2012/stories/m...eness.html

Seeing that made me lose hope in eastern civilization.

Post: #52

at a university I am associated here in East Ukraine, there maybe 120 or so Chinese students, and one thing that plays out with these students is that I never see Chinese students pair up, as in a couple, the Nigerian students very common to pair up, same with students from the middle east, but with the Chinese, the guys hang with the guys and the girls hang with the girls, very seldom mingle, I ve always found that to be very strange, and some of these Chinese girls are very attractive, and all the Chinese students that I've talked with are very friendly. It's kind of like when you were in the 7th grade and you went to a school dance for the first time, the girls are on one side and the boys on the other side of the room.

Post: #53

If there is one thing I give Asian men whether they be Chinese, Japanese, Indian, or Korean credit for is their relentless work ethic in ANYTHING.

When I had a weight lifting class, there was this Obese Japanese guy, about 320 lbs and 6"1. People made jokes about him and all that. Now he is around 195 lbs of bulky muscle (two years later that is) and has developed a mad sense of style and some game too. He was dating a gorgeous Black-White mixed girl and now he is with a Blonde (many agree above average looking girl). The guy has literally made a 180 degree turn.

Online there is a notion that Asian guys do bad with women, thing is, they don't know that doing good with women means anything. For your typical Chinese kid in the US, getting into MIT is more important than nailing that 10/10 girl, way more important.

What is scary is, if Asian guys really cared that much about getting laid like a boss, many of them would be doing really well with women, better than any other kind of guys out there and they damn sure would be near the top spot. The few Asian men I have met that have had Game, have had game that was BEYOND that of any other guys. One of my wingmen was a 5"7 buff Vietnamese guy, he always had women checking him out at bars and was consistently nailing above average girls. One time when we rooming together, he brought home a nice busty redhead and he was on it!!!

In East Asian culture and most extremely civilized cultures, this type of stuff is arranged. Even in America, the OLD MONEY people tend to marry someone close to them and not care too much about getting laid like crazy.

In my experiences with all kinds of Asians, they have a relentless and persistent drive towards anything they get a passion in. They will keep going rejection after rejection and they will drive with all might until it consumes them and ends them. That work ethic is truly that great.

When Asian guys have game, they really have some seriously good game, like their level of game is really really up there from my experience.

Post: #54

Gotta love Chinasmack. Also Chinahush.

Post: #55

Very disturbing.

(07-02-2012 03:14 PM)Fathom Wrote:  Maestro,

Thanks for adding your input. Everything you say is true and I am aware of the other side of the coin. Someone once told me something that stuck with me: the Chinese build their future on the backs of those who love them. What he meant was, in a country where nothing is certain, where corruption, nepotism and bribery run rampant, where hard work is no guarantee of success, the only ones they can depend on are those close to them. Having said that, I'd like to point out a few other things.

I do not judge the Chinese on Western standards. That would be if I were to call them stupid because they don't do drugs and screw everything that moves while in college. I understand the pressure kids there face to build a life. And if they were merely boring because they are such hard, dedicated workers and have no time for personal interests, I'd be ignorant to blame them. Unfortunately, the reality runs more along these lines:

Studying hard does not in any way mean working hard.

Here is the typical hard-working Chinese college student: he thinks writing an essay means copying everything straight off the internet; the word “test” means it's time to openly chat with the people around you so you can figure out the right answer; he can't find Russia on a map; his idea of preparing for a test is getting together with classmates to “give the teacher a present”; he has never read a book in his life and has no earthly clue why he even should.

All this person cares about is passing tests and getting degrees, but he's not actually learning anything. And he doesn't need to, because the people who hire him won't care if he can actually do the job he purportedly studied for four years, they only care that it looks like he can. If he can't, he'll find someone to blame while kissing the right ass.

Chinese either do not care or honestly do not know how to do their job right. They only know how to pretend. In their culture, appearances aren't illusions—if it looks like something, it is something. You can see this in all aspects of their society. Chinese girls are experts at hiding their flaws with makeup, but they don't think they're hiding flaws, they truly believe they are “pretty.” A major shopping area with flashing lights and larger-than-life LED screens looks perfectly modern until you walk inside any of the bathrooms and find they stink like piss. A repairman who comes to your house for the third time to fix your sink takes out a hammer, gashes a hole in the wall, gives up, says he'll come back tomorrow, and disappears—because he figured if he only smashes something, it'll save him “face.” Saying, “I will send someone else to look at this tomorrow” would be crazy.

Quote:And by the way not allowing your daughter to go out after dark when she's 18 is extremely common in probably all Asian countries. In the parents' minds when their daughter is out late she could only either be getting drunk and slutting it up, or being in situations where she puts herself in danger of getting raped/robbed. Quite true too, when you come to think of it right?

I don't think so, no. Not necessarily. Raising your child in a cocoon because she might drink alcohol does more harm than good.

Quote:Duh of course. Remember that no matter how much a Chinese man and woman are "in love" he ain't marrying her if his family is not rich enough to afford the dowry. You are financially imposed to marry within your income bracket. And for the average Chinese man, if he's not married he's not getting much poon (aside from hookers).

That means buying a wife like you'd buy underwear is perfectly acceptable? Or mothers practically throwing their daughters at a complete stranger like a cheap whore because he has money is alright?

Quote:About the stupid questions on dating shows, have you watched dating shows in a number of countries? Of course the questions are going to be outrageous. If it's something you'd actually say in real life, then it would be mundane and wouldn't be on T.V. Low chance a woman actually pulls the is it okay if I'm angry with you often thing in real life and the guy casually accepts it. Its absurdity is meant to draw reactions and interest from viewers.

I understand using a television show is only anecdotal evidence but seen in a bigger context, I just don't think it comes down to simple shock value, mostly because none of the Chinese friends with whom I watched the show were ever shocked.

How about another one of Fathom's Famous TV stories?

In another show, people who wish to get an entry job into a given industry come on the show to be interviewed by a group of judges, all accomplished people in their field. The host guides the conversation as the judges try to figure out if this person is worth a shot.

One such guest was a young girl who had recently returned to China after studying four years in the United States. The host asked her what her major was, to which she replied literature. He asked her what kind of books she liked to read, to which she mentioned Shakespeare. Before I continue, let me assure you I played this back at least five times to make sure it really happened.

With no rhyme or reason, the hosts instantly switches his entire attitude toward her and says, “Why is it the more I speak with you, the colder I feel?” The girl is clueless. Then he starts complaining (indirectly) about how she reads all these foreign things. The more the girl tries to defend herself, the more he makes her out to be argumentative. Poor girl never had a chance. In the end, he says, “You are telling me about Shakespeare and this and that—here is OUR country.”

I wanted to find him and strangle the motherfucker with a barbed wire.

Imagine you're watching some show in America or some other Western country and a countryman of yours comes on and says, “I just spent four years studying in China, I was majoring in Chinese literature and I my favourite book is Dream of the Red Chamber.” Everyone would admire such a knowledgeable, learned person. But in China, you get lambasted by mental midgets on national television for it. I watched this with my Chinese girlfriend.

She was not shocked.

Neither was anyone else. Neither did this fucking idiot lose his job, nor was there any outrage expressed by entertainment columnists. It was just good old normal China.

You can't say these television shows do not represent the viewers' values.

Quote:Regarding the modern Chinese woman not knowing domestic shores, it's only for those families who have maids, and only a small subset of women from those familys.

Your experience differs from mine. The girls I met were by no means wealthy, yet they still had a maid come once a week to do everything. One of them told me her mother used to make her clean the house. Soon as mom left, she called a maid and pretended she cleaned it herself. Another time her mother didn't do the laundry so the girl took her clothes—every single piece of it—and threw them in the garbage. Her mother bought her new ones.

This post got longer than I intended. Point is, many think they can rationalize the Chinese condition with economic explanations. It's not enough. Being poor doesn't explain why you work hard to pass tests but have zero academic honesty. Having a one-child policy does not explain why you are so disgustingly selfish to the point where you are utterly incapable of empathy or even remotely ascertaining the mood of the person in front of you. (For the record, it is not true that Chinese can't have more than one child, plenty have brothers and sisters.)

Chinese do take care of their parents but that doesn't earn them a medal. They are basically forced into a cruel kind of servitude toward their parents which goes beyond “I love mommy and daddy so I will take care of them.” Chinese parents see their children as future banks. My girlfriend's mother carefully documented every single cent she gave her for living expenses while she was in college and made sure to throw it in her face nearly every month. It's not as rosy as you're making it sound.

I won't get into their complete lack of human compassion and utter inability to experience empathy, save for one brief example. My neighbour was an old lady who would always be walking up and down our steps with her infant grandson. She had seen me and my girlfriend countless times. My girlfriend and I would smile and say hi to the baby. We never gave any impression of being weirdos or dangerous or party animals.

One day, my girlfriend is feeling very light-headed and she must leave to get back to the dorm on time. Thinking she just has a bit of a headache, I let her go. Ten minutes later, I hear her voice calling to me faintly from outside. Shocked, I open the door and see her one floor down, sprawled across the stairs. She passed out and fell down the stairs. She told me later this old lady walked out of her apartment, saw my girlfriend, and walked right back in.

Tell me, what kind of a fucking soulless cunt acts this way? She knows who my girlfriend is, she knows who I am, and she's a mother and grandmother to boot. But hey, it's not my blood, so fuck this poor little tiny girl lying across the fucking stairs, why help her up or even run upstairs and knock on that nice boy's door, who always smiles at my grandson. Old fucking cunt. My blood is boiling thinking about this shit. Anyway...

Maestro,

While you do bring up valid and balanced points, I sense you are overcompensating somewhere.

Quote:In all, I'd rather take a Chinese for a LTR than an American woman any day of the week. And if I just wanna fuck them, it doesn't really matter right?

Neither is much better than the other. But if you like a girl who blames you for not watching her watch TV, or who throws a two-hour tantrum because you didn't drop every single thing in your life and console and coddle her when she has her fucking period, or who blames you because she got a cold (they get angry with you for anything that goes wrong with them), then I wish you luck.

By the way, your rhetorical question in the end there... The girl I had refused to let in the house had gone amok and systematically broken every fragile thing in the house, from plates, to full-length mirrors, to glasses, to my cell phone. She did that when I made the grave error of leaving her alone in the apartment for ten minutes while, like a fool, went to buy us both food and let us cool off from a rather ridiculous, juvenile argument. At this point I could throw back my own well-placed, sarcastic retort, but I'll let my story speak for itself.

Lastly, in writing this I do not intend to prove you wrong and, believe it or not, I do not hate the Chinese. In fact, I miss China. I miss those silly, impressionable little Chinese girls and I rather feel for those young guys who truly are hard workers and honestly do want to make something of themselves. Perhaps we're both right. Maybe there really are honest, educated men and women with real interests who appreciate knowledge and care about others. I did not go to every city in China. I just know I met very such people in mine. Some of them really looked out after me and took care me in ways that moved me.


[To future readers: If you are a newbie considering going to China for fun and exploration, this conversation has now veered into interesting but, for you, impractical territory. Go enjoy yourself in China and, after you come back, feel free to dig up this old thread and argue further. Haha.]

TL;DR: The Conductor provides some balanced and needed counter-points but I feel they do not justify or excuse the issues.