Post: #151

Update: Nearly Got A Same Day Lay

Cliff Notes: I met a girl in the mall and talked to her for no more than 10 minutes. Before parting ways I suggested that she come over to my place.

That night she was on my bed and we got to third base. I got cock-blocked by her friend before the bang.


This was two weeks ago. We've been in contact via text but it doesn't seem like I'll be getting a second shot: I suggested a meet up and she said she "couldn't make it"...without counter-offering.

On one level, I am saddened. I spent a good amount of time chatting to her in-between the sexy bits and she had a pleasant sense of humor and a sweet feminine vibe. On another level, I understood that that night was my only chance. It was supposed to be a spontaneous encounter.

This experience reinforced that this way of life is very possible. Also, living close buy is super important if you want a shot at a close encounter like this.

The day after I met the girl above I got another girl in my room (from day game) but was too nervous to even try to pull the trigger.


Keep gaming.

Post: #152

Street Night Game Make-out

I did some street night game. I saw this chick, started conversation, my "spidy sense" (or my dick, not sure which) started tingling so I went for the kiss.

Success!

I then spent an hour trying to get her to take me back to her place to bang. No dice. Turns out she was actually on her way to bang someone else. I think she liked me just enough to waste my time.

I should have cut my losses earlier and found a more willing girl instead of trying to grind it out for so long. Nomad has a post about that.

There were a few other girls I think I could have tried the same thing with - I was just too pussy to go for the kill.

Next time.

Post: #153

good to see you back byron. you've made a lot of progress, and I wish you the best to come!

Post: #154

It's easy to become discouraged with Game if you don't A) reflect on your past positive experiences and B) don't approach often enough.

I've noticed a pattern. Whenever I'm discouraged by the game, it's either because I haven't approached in a day or two or because I have been ruminating on past negative experiences.

Thinking about my past positive experiences renews my motivation. So does doing one measly approach.

Keep that in mind if you're just starting.

Post: #155

^^^ Excellent post Byron. Very true.

Post: #156

Byron, I'm brand new here, and new to game/red pill. Catching up on your thread the last few days I must say you have more balls than 99% of guys your age, or any age for that matter. I'm new to game, but have been in sales for years and can say with 100% confidence that with your effort and desire it is impossible to fail. The progress you have made in the last two months is evidence of this. Keep approaching, keep studying, keep improving yourself, and no doubt keep posting here. It will help your accountability to yourself and provide inspiration for the newbies, including me.

You mentioned that your goal was to get a girl back to your room and it happened. This ties into your frame and confidence. Keep it up and you will be posting in the notch thread before the holidays.

Post: #157

(11-10-2014 03:08 AM)Chauncey Wrote:  Byron, I'm brand new here, and new to game/red pill. Catching up on your thread the last few days I must say you have more balls than 99% of guys your age, or any age for that matter. I'm new to game, but have been in sales for years and can say with 100% confidence that with your effort and desire it is impossible to fail. The progress you have made in the last two months is evidence of this. Keep approaching, keep studying, keep improving yourself, and no doubt keep posting here. It will help your accountability to yourself and provide inspiration for the newbies, including me.

You mentioned that your goal was to get a girl back to your room and it happened. This ties into your frame and confidence. Keep it up and you will be posting in the notch thread before the holidays.

Thanks man. Desire is all I have left. Good luck with your journey.

Post: #158

Nomad77 Gave Me Some Game Advice On My Infield Videos

Nomad77 was kind enough to review two videos of my daygame for me. One was a 5 minute approach with a girl that acted with token niceness and gave me a fake phone number.

The other was a 15 minute long instant date with a girl who had boyfriend.

I think the biggest eye openers Nomad77 shared was that I am persisting with women who have no interest in me - or not at least 50% interest. I have no idea what a woman's interest looks like, to be fair, so I just plow ahead with every approach until the girl has to go/bails from the interaction. I am certain that there have been a more than a few women I've gotten on instant dates that just didn't fancy me that much.

I fight like Mike Tyson. I take a shit load of abuse until I can swing for the kill shot. This has yet to work (though I got close three times). Maybe this is why I come home from a sarge feeling defeated every night.

He also mentioned that I am low energy and need to talk about things that are more sexual upon the initial opener. I.e. I need to excite the girl by talking about why I like her.

This underlines a more serious point: I sometimes forget to flirt on my instant dates/in my interactions. I focus so much on pleasant conversation that I forget that I need to be pushing things in a sexual direction. I have become much better about being physical though and usually touch every girl at least three times.

Therefore, from now on I will initiate talk about relationships and sex with every girl that I instant date. Also, I'm going to become even more aggressive physically. I need to learn more about who likes me and who doesn't by messing up and paying attention to patterns.


I was happy to get a fresh set of eyes on my game. It's been hellish persisting for so long without the results I want. Thanks again, Nomad!

Post: #159

Why Do I Still Struggle To Get A Date?

I feel as though it's ridiculous how many approaches it still takes me to get a date/"Day 2" (i.e. you number close her one day and then meet her again another day).

After nearly ~1,200+ approaches I've only ever had one.

At this point I can only assume that I have some fatal physical flaw that I don't realize...or some devastating social tic that's too uncomfortable for my friends and family to point out.

I don't think most people would ever go that long without at least a handful of dates, even if he/she was average looking. I need to figure out why that's not the case for me.

Post: #160

Bro don't give up!

Post: #161

(11-15-2014 09:04 PM)Byron Wrote:  Why Do I Still Struggle To Get A Date?

I feel as though it's ridiculous how many approaches it still takes me to get a date/"Day 2" (i.e. you number close her one day and then meet her again another day).

After nearly ~1,200+ approaches I've only ever had one.

At this point I can only assume that I have some fatal physical flaw that I don't realize...or some devastating social tic that's too uncomfortable for my friends and family to point out.

I don't think most people would ever go that long without at least a handful of dates, even if he/she was average looking. I need to figure out why that's not the case for me.

No offence but 1 date out of 1200 approaches is fucking tragic. It is precisely the type of outcome that validates game denialism and it's a wonder that you haven't rage-quit and become a regular at PUAhate or its successors by now. That you are somehow able to keep on going cheerfully... for TWELVE HUNDRED APPROACHES... could be a hint at the underlying problem (the "social tic" you mentioned).

You mentioned it could be something wrong with your looks or social skills. I agree, those are the two main things guys bring to the table from a purely Get Laid perspective so it is best to examine those.

You've said you're in shape, young, and have been complimented as cute before. However you are shorter than average (5'7") and you decided to avoid a question regarding your ethnicity, which means you're non-white. You said you didn't want to make an issue out of race, but guess what, the world does, and girls do. Women are very racially picky. As an ethnic guy approaching white women you are fighting an uphill battle. The game community has begrudgingly accepted the importance of looks, yet mum is still the word on the disqualifying nature of race. Now adding in your height too, the deck is stacked against you. Race, Height, and Age are the three biggest dealbreakers in dating.

Still, all that means is that instead of a ~5-7% success rate you'd expect maybe ~1-2%. Not 1200 approaches for only 1 date. Again, you said you're young and decent looking.

A more likely explanation is that you are socially retarded. You come off as weird and lack the ability to read social cues - you seem "off" to girls. I get a virgin aspie vibe from this thread. The social normality is a big part of the game in terms of threshold acceptance by women. However even then it is still hard to square with your results.

The last underlying factor to look at is location. You said you live outside DC, a notoriously bad city for dating. Where you live may just not support the way you're going at it. Demographics, culture, standards, etc. It could be that every girl has 10 orbiters in her phone.

In my opinion, this is what you should do:

1. Post pictures of yourself here or on a site like Good Looking Loser, where you can get your appearance critiqued.
2. Buy a pair of shoe lifts that will add 2". Do 100 daygame approaches and see if there's a difference. Be forewarned, the lifts are uncomfortable and will make extended walking a chore.
3. Try your area's nightlife and see if there's a difference in reception.
4. Try daygame in different cities to see if location's the problem.
5. Post video/audio for critiquing. Hang out with a wing who can be brutally honest with you.
6. Get coaching from someone reputable who won't just blow smoke up your ass. Explain your particular problems and ask for feedback/correction. If you're Asian, which is what I'm assuming, then consider this guy.
7. Lower your standards: 1) approach less attractive girls and 2) girls of your ethnicity.
8. If absolutely none of this works, then quit daygame.

Post: #162

Damn Byron last time I checked your post you seemed to be on the come up, but 1 date out of 1200 approaches means something has to changed!! Do exactly what civpro prescribed to you to a T because every man has a breaking point, and we don't want to see you turn into a PUAhate member. I can relate on your situation since I was Day Gaming like crazy as a Black man in Toronto and it was tough. I'm using was because you don't try to fit a round peg in a square hole.

I might see a broad here and there and go talk to her direct and see where it goes, or indirect if I feel a vibe from her. I now pick my shot since my location is bad for my circumstances. I don't go full out Day Gaming anymore. I'm sure you've got the same case where you're not attracted to girls that are attracted to you.

You've got to change something like civpro mentioned if not you'll go coo coo eventually! Don't do anymore approach until you got a blueprint on how to improve. You've been grinding so hard that If you can get here in Toronto I'm willing to help you out for free. PM me if you take me on my offer

Post: #163

And for the record the I am not a practiced daygamer, I am a nightgamer, and I was applying general principles to a bitch of an unsatisfactory situation. I'm not trying to be mean, I'm being straight up. I hope what I wrote makes sense.

Post: #164

Have you ever heard the saying "You can't fix your own screwed up thinking with your own screwed up thinking"? I've been dealing with unproductive mentality for a while and it's like a hypochondria (http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-deal-with-a...-anxiety).

I'd be surprised if other more experienced members aren't reaching out to you right now so my input is probably moot but in case I can be of help my advice is to get out of town and put yourself though something that utterly changes you. Spend your last dime on a ticket to South America, join the Marines, join a serious club, shake the shit out of the dice and let them fall where they may. All that experience approaching you've racked up wasn't a waste of time, you just need to move the psychological rock that's sitting on it.

Post: #165

Delete

Post: #166

Civpro - I'll respond to you in bold brackets below. I appreciate your comments because I get the sense that you're really trying to help. :

(11-17-2014 01:43 PM)civpro Wrote:  That you are somehow able to keep on going cheerfully... for TWELVE HUNDRED APPROACHES... could be a hint at the underlying problem (the "social tic" you mentioned).

[I have faced many dark nights, cried a few tears, and struggled with game induce depression for the past year. I have mentioned snippets in my posts here (there was one long whiny post in particular that will never happen again). For the most part I keep the struggle to myself because - to be honest - who gives a fuck? Other guys read these posts to get an idea of what it takes to be a success/offer assistance out of the kindness of their heart, not to read my pity story. For guys reading this - meditate. The pain is still there but it helps dull everything.]

You said you didn't want to make an issue out of race, but guess what, the world does, and girls do. Women are very racially picky. As an ethnic guy approaching white women you are fighting an uphill battle.

[As a black man I know that there's already two strikes against me in most situations - be it work, friendship, or dating. I wanted to keep race out of this thread because ultimately guys of every race get laid in America, don't they? Otherwise we would all look the same. Plus white women are not the gold standard of pussy. I think that crown goes to hot Arabic women. I approach women of every race including black women.]


A more likely explanation is that you are socially retarded. You come off as weird and lack the ability to read social cues - you seem "off" to girls. I get a virgin aspie vibe from this thread. The social normality is a big part of the game in terms of threshold acceptance by women.

[Hahaha - I wondered that too. We had to take an EQ (emotional intelligence) test for this class I'm in. I scored a 116.8. That's a standard deviation above average.

I've been told that it seems like I'm always "analyzing things" by both men and women. I can read social cues but I admit that I can be very "robotic" in the way that I do things. That's probably the root of some of my problems.]

1. Post pictures of yourself here or on a site like Good Looking Loser, where you can get your appearance critiqued.

[I already did. The consensus was that I'm good looking enough to get laid. They mentioned that I could amp up results by getting more muscular and dressing with a more "sophisticated" style to negate minority stereotypes.]

2. Buy a pair of shoe lifts that will add 2". Do 100 daygame approaches and see if there's a difference. Be forewarned, the lifts are uncomfortable and will make extended walking a chore.

[I normally wear shoes with a one inch heel. No difference. I bought some inserts and will try again once I get some boots.]

3. Try your area's nightlife and see if there's a difference in reception.

[No difference.]

4. Try daygame in different cities to see if location's the problem.

[I've tried a few different cities in the area. It's all the same. Maybe another state will work but I doubt it. People complain about DC a lot but guys do get laid here. They usually look a lot more attractive than me.

5. Post video/audio for critiquing. Hang out with a wing who can be brutally honest with you.

[Nomad gave me some advice on a video. *See the post above*. I may just post that video here...maybe. But there's a lot of viewers here and I want to respect that chick's privacy - as lame as that sounds. I'll think about it.]

6. Get coaching from someone reputable who won't just blow smoke up your ass. Explain your particular problems and ask for feedback/correction. If you're Asian, which is what I'm assuming, then consider this guy.

[I'm black. I don't have funds for coaching right now.]

7. Lower your standards: 1) approach less attractive girls and 2) girls of your ethnicity.

[I do approach less attractive girls and I do approach girls of my ethnicity (While I do enjoy looking at certain features I don't have a true racial preference. I like hot girls of any race. )]

8. If absolutely none of this works, then quit daygame.

[I'm giving it two more months (the end of January). If it doesn't pan out then I'll just move on to something else and eschew relationships entirely. It wouldn't be hard because I'm a complete introvert and I've been tired of talking to women for a long time.]

[Few things are more difficult than rationalizing to yourself the pain of a 1000+ rejections. I did learn something valuable though. I'm not a special snowflake.]

Thanks again for the comment man. It's just reality. Not every guy can be a success at this. I have/will continue to try my absolute hardest but it may not pan out.

Post: #167

(11-17-2014 02:31 PM)Captain Gh Wrote:  Damn Byron last time I checked your post you seemed to be on the come up, but 1 date out of 1200 approaches means something has to changed!! Do exactly what civpro prescribed to you to a T because every man has a breaking point, and we don't want to see you turn into a PUAhate member. I can relate on your situation since I was Day Gaming like crazy as a Black man in Toronto and it was tough. I'm using was because you don't try to fit a round peg in a square hole.

I might see a broad here and there and go talk to her direct and see where it goes, or indirect if I feel a vibe from her. I now pick my shot since my location is bad for my circumstances. I don't go full out Day Gaming anymore. I'm sure you've got the same case where you're not attracted to girls that are attracted to you.

You've got to change something like civpro mentioned if not you'll go coo coo eventually! Don't do anymore approach until you got a blueprint on how to improve. You've been grinding so hard that If you can get here in Toronto I'm willing to help you out for free. PM me if you take me on my offer

Thanks man. You get laid though with girls you're attracted to, don't you? I would't be able to make it there anytime soon (because of school) but I really appreciate your offer.

Post: #168

(11-17-2014 05:58 PM)h3ltrsk3ltr Wrote:  Have you ever heard the saying "You can't fix your own screwed up thinking with your own screwed up thinking"? I've been dealing with unproductive mentality for a while and it's like a hypochondria (http://www.rooshv.com/how-to-deal-with-a...-anxiety).

I'd be surprised if other more experienced members aren't reaching out to you right now so my input is probably moot but in case I can be of help my advice is to get out of town and put yourself though something that utterly changes you. Spend your last dime on a ticket to South America, join the Marines, join a serious club, shake the shit out of the dice and let them fall where they may. All that experience approaching you've racked up wasn't a waste of time, you just need to move the psychological rock that's sitting on it.

Hahaha thanks for the input man. Er, I'm not sure I understood your advice though. I don't think joining the military would suddenly make me a 10/10 pua. There are just a lot of guys out there with higher SMV than me (be it looks/style/swagger). Girls have opted not to buy this product. It's a sign that I have to move on soon.

Post: #169

(11-22-2014 12:53 PM)Byron Wrote:  Hahaha thanks for the input man. Er, I'm not sure I understood your advice though. I don't think joining the military would suddenly make me a 10/10 pua. There are just a lot of guys out there with higher SMV than me (be it looks/style/swagger). Girls have opted not to buy this product. It's a sign that I have to move on soon.

No you don't have to move on . Think about it , you've taken the red pill , so moving on from your red pill ways actually means moving backwards back into blue pill .

It's akin to hustling backwards , to getting high off your own supply . It makes no sense .

Start working out , switch your style up , get yourself some jordans , some black jeans , a long tee and a bomber jacket . That's what us fashion oriented brothers are wearing right now .

Switch your game from direct to indirect . As black males , our color of skin precedes our personality . Going in direct as a tall , strong black male can be intimidating and can scare the cat .

I've read your thread , don't open on a compliment . By doing that your placing her value above yours . You've given her a huge ego boost before you've even began spitting game . Ramble , drop bait to show your value and then number close .

She knows what's up you don't have to say it . Save the direct game for the first date .

Edit :
That's probably why you haven't been getting dates , she rationalizes you as just an ego booster . Communicate your attraction to her though : Looks , and Touch not speech . ( Touch her arms after a joke for example )

Post: #170

I'm Still Trying. Do You Think That Makes Me Crazy?

Even though I was tired of rejection (again) I decided to keep gaming. For a while I resorted to just one approach a day. Anything more felt like extreme punishment. Maybe some of you have been there.

I had a day 2 last week. That's my second ever day 2 in 15 months of approaching. I cold approached her during some day game. She was slightly taller than me (I'm 5'7"), out of my race and a little better looking than me.

I approached her with an observational joke, touched her a few times, gave a vague compliment, and ended direct. I don't know if you've all experienced what I have: women reward me more for not giving many compliments, approaching more indirectly, and yet also bravely touching them during the day.

During the date we got drinks. I battled anxiety for the three days before and plotted my every move. Part of me felt that it was ridiculous that she agreed to a date. She could definitely do better. I promised myself to escalate to the kiss and ask her to come home with me NO MATTER what. As long as I went for those two things the evening would be an accomplishment in my eyes (or at least that's what I told myself).

I did both things. We kissed multiple times. She did not come home with me. A day later when I asked her out again she told me that she felt no chemistry and wasn't interested in seeing me again. I thought about what to say back to her for days but I never responded to her message.

What was there to say?

I've started watching videos on better kissing technique.

I had another date with another girl scheduled that week. She flaked. I don't think I'll ever hear from her again.

......

Originally I wanted to delete this log. I'm ambivalent about it now. I guess you could say I've seen improvement since never before have I managed to schedule two dates in a single week. Also the first date I went on (last summer) I could hardly touch the girl; some of you can understand the pressure. And, although it has been a long time since my last post, I've been doing far less approaching.

Stats:

January = 36 daygame approaches, 0 dates
February = 16 daygame approaches, 1 date, 1 date flake

Contrast that to my previous 1200+ approaches and only 1 date. Is that increased skill or total randomness? Who knows.

If I could go back in time and stop myself from ever learning game...I'm not sure of what I would do.

I have no idea when you'll see me post here again. If you're struggling like me just know that I feel you man.

Post: #171

Damn man. I feel for you.

Have you ever thought about travelling?

Post: #172

Man Thank You for being honest with yourself and posting that last log. I now have a better pictures of what's going on. Yes you did improve from those 1000+ approaches that you've done, but unfortunately your Inner Game is far from being strong enough to be with a woman.

It's normal to feel a little anxiety about a first date in the beginning, but for 3 straight days something is up. And when you also said that you were asking yourself why she agreed to be there with you, you were displaying your insecurity and lower value and she picked it up by your vibe and body language.

Women might be a lot of bad things, but they can detect emotional vibe like no one else. She kissed you but decided to pursue further since comfort was not fully established in her mind, and that the part of the game where you need to let her

know about the real you, what are your goals and some goofy story of you as a kid. That's some good news since you now need to work on a different part of your game, and that is comfort game and especially your Inner Game

Post: #173

(02-16-2015 02:40 AM)JamesW95 Wrote:  Damn man. I feel for you.

Have you ever thought about travelling?

For fun? Yes. For girls? Nah:

http://www.rooshv.com/how-foreign-women-...ationships

Post: #174

(02-16-2015 07:20 AM)Captain Gh Wrote:  Man Thank You for being honest with yourself and posting that last log. I now have a better pictures of what's going on. Yes you did improve from those 1000+ approaches that you've done, but unfortunately your Inner Game is far from being strong enough to be with a woman.

It's normal to feel a little anxiety about a first date in the beginning, but for 3 straight days something is up. And when you also said that you were asking yourself why she agreed to be there with you, you were displaying your insecurity and lower value and she picked it up by your vibe and body language.

Women might be a lot of bad things, but they can detect emotional vibe like no one else. She kissed you but decided to pursue further since comfort was not fully established in her mind, and that the part of the game where you need to let her

know about the real you, what are your goals and some goofy story of you as a kid. That's some good news since you now need to work on a different part of your game, and that is comfort game and especially your Inner Game

I stepped back for a while and looked for whatever truth I could find in your response.

Your point about "you were asking yourself why she agreed to be there with you, you were displaying your insecurity and lower value and she picked it up by your vibe and body language." Hm. I think you've revealed some truth there. I think that my uncertainty over WHY she actually showed up did affect my behavior at certain points.

From now on no matter how farfetched it seems I'll just assume the chick is on the date because she wants the bang. Period.

This point about comfort: "She kissed you but decided to pursue further since comfort was not fully established in her mind, and that the part of the game where you need to let her know about the real you, what are your goals and some goofy story of you as a kid."

I'm 50 - 50 here. We both shared a good amount of personal information. She heard some of my silly childhood stories and got a glimpse of my aspirations. I learned the same about her. Then again two people can perceive the same event very differently.

Thank you for your feedback. It's too bad we can't have girls fill out post-date documents to solve all these riddles.

Hopefully in the coming months I can get more dates more frequently. If a few more end this way then I'll really start scratching my chin. If seven people say you have a green tail...then you turn around and take a look.

Post: #175

1200 approached is a damn lot and I respect you for it and it makes me want you to succeed.

I personally drew A LOT of value from hanging out with other game guys. Good wingmen have also increased my chances of pulling. I joined a Mastermind group which meets weekly to discuss game & self-improvement topics, which taught me all of the basics without having to make the mistakes myself.

Maybe you should consider getting a wingman? Maybe consider creating or joining a mastermind group?

I've learned a lot more a lot faster from people better than me, than I've learned through personal experience. Find a daygame guy who's competent, at the very least with the ability to consistently get numbers AND dates from daygame, and become his friend. He can enjoy the mentor role, you can enjoy the mentee role.

Hope this helps.