Post: #1

You're in an LTR.
You get into a fight.
You know that you're right. You're right on the facts, and you're right in spirit.

And she's not right.

But in order to keep the relationship going, to keep the peace, you relent. You give in. You go along with whatever cockamamie thing she has planned.

And of course it blows up in her face. And sometimes, she blames *You* for not stopping her.

This ain't the first time.
This won't be the last time.

A man's primary weakness in any argument is being rational, thinking logically, valuing truth and intellectual honesty. ...

This will be your life, probably until you get divorced, or until you die a physical death. (arguably the real you is already dead)

The pussy stopped being great A LONG TIME AGO.
The pleasures you get from being in a relationship are much more subtle at this point.

But you really can't continue like this and keep your sanity.

Such was the problem presented to the men of the party last night.
Nobody had a solution.

To be eternally vigilant and keep a chick constantly on her toes...
Dread...
Never get in that situation in the first place
Never get close
Move
Expatriate

Was chopping it up with the homiez last night, and I still don't have a good answer for this. There might not be an answer that allows one to keep the peace and the relationship with a Western woman in 2014.

WIA

Post: #2

As you've noticed women don't respond well to logic and reason. They are feeling/experience based so that's where they have to be hit in order for them to understand anything.

One important attribute of women is their claim to not being a self-interested person (an ego) taking for themselves, making demands on others, etc.

Of course this is ridiculous because they are huge egos, but nonetheless that's their claim. Of course we can't point out with facts and proof of their egotism because then they fault us for being the ego in wanting it our way. They will dismiss our argument by saying something like, "You're just saying that because you want this and that, etc"

One trick I've used is to make them see (feel) their own egotism without me attacking it directly and setting of their defense mechanisms.

I'm going to get some flack for this because it sounds weak and beta-ish, but it really has worked.

The scenario: She wants to do something or wants you to do something that is obviously fucked up.

You: "Hmm…I understand you're saying (etc. etc.) but I feel strongly that (etc., etc)….(sigh)…but I don't know. It's a little confusing. What would you like to see me do?"

And then don't say anything. No matter what don't say anything. Let her sit and suffer with the question. This is key.

Her: "I want you to etc, etc."
You: "Ok, then that's what I'll do."

Her: (Pauses….feelings of egotism start welling up inside her. May take a few seconds, may take several hours) "You know what dear, never mind, you/we don't have to etc, etc.
You: "Ok, great"

And then drop the subject. Don't say another word about it or how she was wrong. A women can handle only the smallest amount of self-reflection, because the feminine believes there is no ego (in themselves) to even see. In men, there's lots.

Now I know some may say this maneuver makes you weak because we didn't give orders, but this type of psychological manuveur is sometimes necessary with modern day women who are programmed to resist orders instead of follow them as they should.

If this type of maneuver doesn't work, then she is most likely a ruthless woman incapable of any type of self-reflection and should be dropped immediately.

Post: #3

(05-25-2014 09:48 AM)Onto Wrote:  As you've noticed women don't respond well to logic and reason. They are feeling/experience based so that's where they have to be hit in order for them to understand anything.

Which means what EXACTLY?

Take a typical scenario where the both of you want to save up for a house, but she gets the idea that you need to have a romantic getaway in Paris. And money is a concern.

Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

If you don't like my scenario, come up with your own and break it down.

WIA

Post: #4

(05-25-2014 10:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 09:48 AM)Onto Wrote:  As you've noticed women don't respond well to logic and reason. They are feeling/experience based so that's where they have to be hit in order for them to understand anything.

Which means what EXACTLY?

Take a typical scenario where the both of you want to save up for a house, but she gets the idea that you need to have a romantic getaway in Paris. And money is a concern.

Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

If you don't like my scenario, come up with your own and break it down.

WIA

Him: "I understand you want to go to Paris, but I feel like we should use that money to buy a nice home together and I'm worried that we don't have money for both. (Sigh) I don't know, I'm confused about it. What would you like to see me do?"

Her: "WTF did you just say?"
You: Calmly repeat what you just said.

Her: "I want you to take me to Paris."
You: "Ok, then that's what I'll do"

Now if she doesn't change her mind you drive her to the airport and leave her ass there.

Post: #5

In WIA's scenario I'd send her packing. A woman that can't prioritize between a house and a trip to Paris is one I don't want on my team. Girls like this have terrible impulse control and consistently make poor decisions. Rest assured this won't be the last argument over something that is considered a no-brainer by anyone with common sense.

Post: #6

(05-25-2014 10:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

Him - Someone has to (firm, alpha, in-control)
Him - Okay yeah let's go. We don't need a house anyway we can live in a refrigerator box in an alley somewhere and shower at the YMCA down the street (agree and amplify)
Him - Fine see you when you get back (frame, don't-give-a-shit attitude)

I guess this all depends on your philosophy on LTR game. The school of thought where you have to constantly game a girl until the end of time to keep her in-line would ensure these situation don't really arise, or if they do they are mitigated quickly. A lot of this comes down to self control and just holding frame.

We all know men are the romancers. No matter how alpha you feel, you know it's hard to risk losing a great girl you have grown comfortable with and close to - but a woman will respect you standing your ground and putting your foot down about important shit. If she doesn't then she's a waste of your time anyway. If a LTR is acting up then you need to just be firm and say "no." In the past I've done the beta shit and caved/accepted her frame and felt like a total douche afterwards and for what? I'm single today so obviously that didn't "make things work."

I try to be far less compromising these days. Granted relationships are already about compromise to begin with - compromise of lifestyle if you are going to start sharing it with someone else, but you have to draw lines somewhere.

Post: #7

"Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!"

I wonder how it would go if you chose not to say anything to the controlling comment.

What if you just looked her in the eyes, let out a deep breath and then get up to pour a drink and walk outside for a smoke?

It's just not wise to argue with some people no matter how right you are.

Post: #8

(05-25-2014 10:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Take a typical scenario where the both of you want to save up for a house, but she gets the idea that you need to have a romantic getaway in Paris. And money is a concern.

Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

Ok, you're dealing with a woman, so forget logic. It's 'feels' and drama. Yeah, we want peace, and fighting is tedious, but it has to be done to nip this sort of thing in the bud. Escalate. If you give in, you're fucked. If you comply to stupid, unreasonable demands, you're fucked.

Any bratty, instant-gratification demand, I respond with this. (It's all about taking your time with it, and being completely stoic and using dominant body language with the lead-in).

"Ok. Point taken." [Let her think she's winning]. "Just let me make sure I understand this... What you're saying is that you want an Oompah Loompah? You want an Oompah Loompah and you want it right now? Daddy, buy me an Oompah Loompah?"

Schoolyard game, but it works. Do it with the English accent if you can. I've never met a chick who hasn't seen that movie. We should praise Johnny Depp for remaking it. I've had relationships where I've nipped all kinds of future stupidity in the bud simply by just saying 'Oompah Loompah' in an English Accent and cracking her up. (They might still want their Oompah Loompah, but they won't try brattiness to get it).

IF SHE LAUGHS, BUT KEEPS WANTING HER OOMPAH LOOMPAH ANYWAY

You've defused the anger situation, so go for the emotional guilt card, note the keywords. "Look. I thought *we* decided to save for a house for *us*, and now *our shared* goals for *our* future *as a family* don't seem as important to *you* as *your* instant gratification.

The trick is to sound emotionally-wounded, but still strong, which is why the 'family' line is important, (whether or not you want it or not). She gets a hint that you were thinking long-term, and now, well, could you really imagine raising children with someone so selfish?

Then say "We can talk about this later. I'm going for a walk. I need some time to think about things." She might try to stop you, but go, hinting that you need space because "Maybe I'll say something I'll regret later if I don't have time to think." She needs to feel the fear of abandonment.

Go out for a few hours. Give her time to contact her hen's circle and dissect what just happen. You'll come home to a girl who'll say sorry - don't apologise - give a stiff hug or a light kiss on the head. Keep the distance. She will fuck your brains out sometime in the next few hours to win you back.

Yeah, it's manipulative, but women crave drama, so I see it as giving them what they desire, (being overwhelmed by emotion), as tedious as it is to us men.

IF SHE COMPLETELY LOSES HER SHIT WHEN YOU OOMPAH LOOMPAH HER

Ridicule her. Father to child.

"No, you're not doing it right. You need to stamp your feet harder. Get those eyes really small and piggy. Toss your hair. Show me how much you want your Oompah Loompah."

Get out your mobile phone and say you want to put her on YouTube, and maybe an agent will like her performance enough that he'll hire her for a movie and then she can buy her own goddamn Oompah Loompahs.

Girls are lazy and only have *so* much energy. The trick is to either ridicule or be non-reactive and do your own thing. She'll sulk and be passive-aggressive for a while. It's wearing, but think it of it as future practice for when you're raising toddlers together. Like children, if you reward women for bratty behaviour, they'll keep doing it because they know it works on you.

ALSO, IF SHE'S THAT MUCH OF A BRAT YOU KNOW SHE'LL NEVER SHUT UP ABOUT IT (in which case, why date her?)

You can devalue the Oompah Loompah in her eyes. "Paris? That's a country girl's cliched conception of glamour, like a teenage Audrey Hepburn poster. I thought you were more wordly than that. I might have respected asking for [location X]."

Yeah, she'll probably lose her shit, but you can ride it out, and you've planted the doubt as to the worth of the thing she wanted to raise her social value in her friend's eyes might be sneered at by them, rather than celebrated. Which is why you have to use 'bitch language', the way I have above: imagine her friend who resents her the most trying to tear down her accomplishment, but dial down the viciousness.

I honestly don't see the point of a relationship where the tactics have to descend to that level. That's a clear sign there are better girls around.

Post: #9

Can you just ask up front: "would you you like to resolve this matter using logic and facts or emotions and manipulative argumentation tactics?"

Post: #10

"Never compromise on love. It is the only thing in this world that isn’t bullshit."

Source - https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2008/01/...he-zeroes/

Post: #11

(05-25-2014 10:58 AM)General Mayhem Wrote:  "Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!"

I wonder how it would go if you chose not to say anything to the controlling comment.

What if you just looked her in the eyes, let out a deep breath and then get up to pour a drink and walk outside for a smoke?

It's just not wise to argue with some people no matter how right you are.

I read about this somewhere, I believe it was called a "Soft next."

Basically WHENEVER a woman starts to get bitchy or cause ANY DRAMA AT ALL. Just stop talking. Be calm but stop paying attention to her, If you're driving, stop the car for a few minutes and just be silent, have a smoke, whatever. If she keeps bitching, turn the car around, take her home without saying a word. If you're on a date, end the date. Then don't contact her at ALL for about a few days, then invite her over again. If She STILL does this, then you need to ddrop her, but usually she'll get the message. BAsically you want all yoru interactions with women to be happy fun and light. If it gets to the point in the relationship (you really shouldn't be having a "Relationship" unless you're trying to get married to a chick not in the west.) where she is nagging you, its time to let her go. She's already either A)fucking some other dude and trying to get out anyway, B tryign to get you to "commit" or C: getting bored of you.

Pretty much at this point you've fucked up and the dammage is done.

For A and C: its because you havent been dominating her enough in bed, and/or been seeing her too much (never see a woman more than once a week).

For B: this is a cycle that happens every 3-6 months after meeting a chick.she wants to make you exclusive etc etc.. . . and when she realizes thats not goin gto happen with you B occurs. With this, its best to soft next her immediately, and be prepared to drop her.

Remember you're NOT trying to get married in the U.S or in the west. So there is no need for an LTR.

and if you ARE trying to get married here(in the U.S.). . .What are you doing HERE? You're goin gto only cause pain for yourselves down the road. . .the thing is even WOMEN are starting to wisen up as to how bad a deal marriage is for men, I had a talk with my boss/coworker and she pretty much 100% understands why its bad for men to get married, she told me about it like I didn't know anything...like she was teaching me! hahah, it was a wonderful day at work. So yeah, get your priorities straight before getting in to an LTR, if you're trying to get married here, good luck, you're going to need it.

If not, then dont be afraid to let a girl go. Time with you should only be about fun. Anything less that that, and she's got to go.

Post: #12

(05-25-2014 10:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 09:48 AM)Onto Wrote:  As you've noticed women don't respond well to logic and reason. They are feeling/experience based so that's where they have to be hit in order for them to understand anything.

Which means what EXACTLY?

Take a typical scenario where the both of you want to save up for a house, but she gets the idea that you need to have a romantic getaway in Paris. And money is a concern.

Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

If you don't like my scenario, come up with your own and break it down.

WIA

There's a few fundamental flaws with this scenario which I'll address.

First off, anytime a girl introduces a straw man argument "Stop trying to control me!" then I respond with, "I will not talk to you if you're going to act childish like this. Act like an adult, and I'll speak to you like an adult." If she continues down her path of anger and indignation, separate from her. Go hang out with your friends or do something you enjoy. The best way I've found to deal with an angry woman is let her stew in her own emotions. Once she simmers down she'll achieve some semblance of clarity and see how she was wrong. If she tries to get you to take some accountability, refuse. Tell her you'll talk to her once she can be an adult. If she can't, ditch her immediately. If she pulls these episodes more than once every few months, ditch her immediately. It's good to get a fiery woman, you don't want a doormat, but there's a fine line there. If it's a regular occurrence, ditch her immediately.

You'll find that's my solution to a lot of problems by the way (ditching her). You'd be surprised how well it works. If you're not willing to walk away from any woman, you have no business being in a relationship.

Next, the issue of finances.

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever share you finances with a female. Never. Repeat that to yourself outloud. Not for a house, not for anything. If you can't afford a house by yourself, don't get one. You want a scenario when a woman is living under YOUR roof, by YOUR rules of the household. If that's not the case, then you do not move in with her.

That said, I recently decided to share my finances with my gf. Want to know how I did it?

Her paychecks now go straight to my bank account through direct deposit. She closed her own checking account. Everything she makes goes to me. I issued her a credit card from my credit account with a monthly $1000 spending limit. Basically, I control our finances. In return for that, she doesn't look at rent or bills. She understands that I look at every credit card statement and that if she abuses the card, I'll revoke it from her and give her a cash spending allowance instead.

If your girl isn't willing to do this, then you do not share your finances. Not one penny.

Next, the concept of the necessities of romance i.e. the trip to Paris, the wedding ring, the wedding, the this, the that. All the shit that she's been brainwashed that she's entitled to. Well, that is something that should be addressed throughout the course of your relationship to reinforce the understanding that because she's with you, she's going to have to do WITHOUT those things. If she wants a sugardaddy, she needs to find someone else. There are days when I wake up, staring at the ceiling pensively, and my girl asks me, "What are you thinking?"

"I was just thinking about how diamond rings are a completely corporate invention geared at establishing false scarcity thereby increasing the value of the product they happen to have a monopoly on. I was also thinking how men never got down on one knee to propose until very recently. Did you know that?"

Over months and years, your girl will get the hint and start to understand you better. She'll understand that you're different from all the other guys, that you don't supplicate or bend to her will, and that you see things very very differently. She'll either be on board with the program, or she'll leave, both of which are advantageous to you. This is a filtering process of finding a traditional girl that wants a dominant man in her life, and leaving behind the entitled independent cunts to ride the carousel for the rest of her cat-riddled life.

She will need to understand what it means to be a life partner. She'll need to understand that in this modern world, the concept of marriage is outdated. She'll need to understand the importance of your independence and she'll be happy to have such a dominant man that provides structure to her life.

In exchange for all this, you should be fair. You should give her the attention that she needs and fuck her plenty as well. Do take her on dates that are more thoughtful than expensive. Do open up to her and show her a side of you that you don't expose very often. The only compromise that you should be engaging in is admitting when you've slacked off in your responsibilities in the relationship. Despite everything I've written above, relationships are still work. The bulk of the work should consist of giving your girl the attention she needs. If you have been neglecting her for work or other activities, then your compromise consists of, "Baby, I know I've been neglecting you and as soon as I get some more free time then I'm all yours."

If you value your time and freedom as your greatest asset, then she will too, and she will appreciate you giving that to her instead of superficial garbage like trips to Paris or expensive jewelry. If she doesn't, ditch her.

Speaking of Paris, my girl met me there for a few days on my last trip. She paid her own ticket and half the room fees while she was there. We did the touristy thing and went to the Eiffel tower and there were guys on their knees giving flowers to girls and shit. On multiple occasions when she sees stuff like that she'll turn to me and say, "Thank you for not being like that."

It's a matter of a few things:

1) Bend the sapling while it's young
2) Find the right girl
3) Be brutally honest. Speak your mind.
4) Be attentive. Pay attention to her
5) Take time to yourself. Be independent. Set boundaries and limits
6) Always call her on her bullshit. Call her a child when she's acting like one. Be firm.

If you take the above into account, there is no argumentative jiu-jitsu. There is no winning any argument, ever. If it's gotten to the argument phase, your top priority is getting out of the argument, which may require you just leave. Tell her, "I'm very upset at you right now, and rather than say things that would hurt you, I'm going to take some time to myself to think things over. I suggest you do the same." This is a much better recourse.

Post: #13

(05-25-2014 10:21 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  Him - We can't afford Paris and getting a house
Her - Stop trying to control me!

Him - *what the fuck? Where did that come from? We weren't even talking about that*

^How do you deal with this kind of argumentative jiu-jitsu?

I'm going to go ahead and channel The Last Psychiatrist for a second, and say that the key is to be able to recognize ASAP when dealing with a girl that the girl you're dealing with is the kind of girl who would prefer to go to Paris instead of buying a house. If such isn't how you get down (i.e. you'd rather have a place to live instead of a vacation to Paris) you drop her and move on with your life and save yourself the cost of a divorce lawyer.

I recommend reading this: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2012/01/w..._fian.html

Post: #14

Solution: No LTRs.

I never let a woman believe that I wouldn't walk away in a second if she inconveniences me in anyway.

Post: #15

In response to WIA's original post

Believe you me, I've sat in with the same homie's and had the same pow wow, and it quickly deteriorates into a drunken pity party.

As a "well intentioned" man, these guys have a motto of "going along to get along" and once the avg woman senses that she knows she has Samson/Delilah dynamic that works in her favor.

She has found what she perceives to be his "weakness" and will exploit it to the fullest. Be it tears, constant bitching and petulant behavior, or shaming him to friends/family. Most of the time she believes in compromise only when she has the weakest hand.

If he is a direct, no-nonsense, traditional dude: eventually he gets called "controlling" or somehow is trying to change her
If he is a more lenient, agreeable guy: then he gets called "too nice" or worst-case a "bitch"

The main problem seems to be - Comfort

Men get comfortable with coming home to this normalcy no matter how outta whack it truly is, BUT in their minds to be hunting at a certain age doesn't equate to them, so it's "cheaper to keep her" or "happy wife, happy life"

So...in the end all they will ever do is talk, and the Sunday night football telecast with the boys will be their only reprieve from the bullshit.

Post: #16

The answer to resolving these arguments for me has always been very simple. Spanking.
I agree in a very sarcastic way while cave manning her over my knee. I proceed to make fun of her argument while giving her a nice firm spanking. Most of the time I pull her panties down and expose her bare ass while doing the spanking. The key to this is the rubbing. After every couple slaps give the area a nice rubbing with the palm of your hand. Soon she will be wet and horny and that is the point where I make her apologize to me for whatever crazy crap she had started. This usually ends with fucking as well so it's a win win.

There is no logic or reasoning involved. Just a bare ass and a willing hand. Try it and you will both like it.

Post: #17

I had a thoughtful reply, then read thedude's response. Yep, that was a great post. My first thought to the original OP, which would reflect thedude said, is rationale doesn't work with an irrational person, so don't argue.

"Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." - Mark Twain

Post: #18

For me I see things completely differently. When a woman starts shit for no reason and she keeps harassing you, it means she either needs sex or attention. If she annoys me, I get angry at her and tell her to shut up and that she didn't behave like I wanted her to behave that night. I reprimand her, she apologizes, I fuck her good and things get better after.

It's not a question of logic or feelings, it's a question of you're in charge and you have to act like it. She wants to be told what to do, she wants to be led, and you have to not treat her like an equal.

Post: #19

The thing is - how you start is usually how you end up

If you started with strong hand/secure in your own skin in the relationship - you have to maintain that frame
If you started out pacifying from the gate - then when you go to boss up, it's not congruent so it doesn't work

Coming in with known expectations is the best route

Good advice for those considering a LTR

Post: #20

Good insight MDP. Shit is true as can be.

Post: #21

Both Bosch and dude's replies were very insightful, I would also add that dude's way of handling the situation is very similar to what the late Patrice O'Neal was preaching in his Black Phillip Show. A must hear for those who missed it.

Post: #22

(05-25-2014 09:38 AM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  You're in an LTR.
You get into a fight.
You know that you're right. You're right on the facts, and you're right in spirit.

And she's not right.

But in order to keep the relationship going, to keep the peace, you relent. You give in. You go along with whatever cockamamie thing she has planned.

And of course it blows up in her face. And sometimes, she blames *You* for not stopping her.

This ain't the first time.
This won't be the last time.

A man's primary weakness in any argument is being rational, thinking logically, valuing truth and intellectual honesty. ...

This will be your life, probably until you get divorced, or until you die a physical death. (arguably the real you is already dead)

The pussy stopped being great A LONG TIME AGO.
The pleasures you get from being in a relationship are much more subtle at this point.

But you really can't continue like this and keep your sanity.

Such was the problem presented to the men of the party last night.
Nobody had a solution.

To be eternally vigilant and keep a chick constantly on her toes...
Dread...
Never get in that situation in the first place
Never get close
Move
Expatriate

Was chopping it up with the homiez last night, and I still don't have a good answer for this. There might not be an answer that allows one to keep the peace and the relationship with a Western woman in 2014.

WIA

Very interesting topic you bring up and something I've been thinking alot about myself lately.

I thhink there's a lot of reasons why this is. three big ones I think are crying, bitching, and cheating. These are three strong cards women hold. Even if you are in the rigt they can pull these out and win an argument against most guys, especially guys who care more than they do. Crying, crying is a pretty easy way to win the argument. noone likes to hear a girl crying, it can kinda freak you out, throw you off your game and you cave to stop the crying. Bitching, unrelenting bitching, blowing up your phone, never ending text messages. Again guy will cave just to stop the bitching. Lastly chheating, thoughh I don't thhink most women are bad enough to come out and be like I'm gonna go out to the bar and get fucked I think its something in the back of every guys mind. You get in a fight, I'm going out with my girlfriend. Guys like oh no she's going to the club and she's pissed at me. What if shhe gets drunk and goes home with some dude.

Overall however I think all relationships have one person who cares more than the oter. I've heard it said before he who cares the least has the most power, I definately think this is true. The one who cares more will generally be the one to back down.

I was with a very demanding girl who I found myself caving to her all the time. My buddies would tell me dude you gotta just put your foot down and stop caving to threats or crazy behavior and this will stop right away. Now I've given this same advice to countless friends and nobody ever listens. Its much easier said than done.

That said I noticed at some point I got fedup wit to the point I can't take this anymore, I'd rater lose her than live the rest of my life or even another week/month/year like this and was my thing is just anytime she wants to threaten a breakup or whatever fine I'm done. All the sudden the waterworks start and she starts explainning how she's sorry she bitches and moans but just gets upset, she's sensitive, bla blah blah. I told my girl next time you threaten a breakup we are breaking up, no more texts, calls end all contact never talk to me again.

I've noticed te tables have definately turned. I do notice at times this behavior pops back up but I just stick to my plan and look I'm not gonna deal with this and all the sudden it stops. It's relly about keeping yourself detached enough that you care less and that anytime if she wants to be on bullshit your wiling to walk away. this will turn the tables in your favor. Now obviously this is easier withh chicks you don't care as much about but still need to do it.

Post: #23

Damn, WIA, I've asked myself this same thing many times. Emotional Jiu-Jitsu is exactly the phrase I use to describe it. I had this exact convo this morning, and it's always over money. What the fuck is it about women who don't understand the concept of living within your means?

(05-27-2014 01:30 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  The thing is - how you start is usually how you end up

^ This. Once you set a precedent, you're working against yourself.

(05-26-2014 01:06 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  First off, anytime a girl introduces a straw man argument "Stop trying to control me!" then I respond with, "I will not talk to you if you're going to act childish like this. Act like an adult, and I'll speak to you like an adult."

There's a parenting series of books & classes called "Love & Logic" and this is straight out of their playbook. When dealing with a kid having a tantrum, you say "I'll be happy to talk to you when you're calm", or "I love you too much to argue about this". (that last is pure fucking gold). I took a class on the whole method and some of the parents started laughing and jokingly asked "Can I use this on adults?" and the instructor, dead serious, said "absolutely". Google the Love & Logic thing, the basics are really easy. It's all about frame control and not losing your shit when dealing with irrationality.

Having said that, I find it really hard to put this into practice. One of those areas where it's easy to intellectualize something but tough to live it.

Side story, there's a kid in my neighborhood who was a super bitchy little 4 year old. One time she wanted to come inside and play with my kid and it was almost dinner time and I honestly didn't feel like having the kid in my house at that moment, so I said no. She looks up at me and says "I hate you". I very calmly said "That makes me really sad to hear you say that". Kid's jaw dropped. She had no words for that, I believe because I didn't do what her parents do and placate or hate on her.

Post: #24

(05-28-2014 10:37 AM)RockHard Wrote:  Damn, WIA, I've asked myself this same thing many times. Emotional Jiu-Jitsu is exactly the phrase I use to describe it. I had this exact convo this morning, and it's always over money. What the fuck is it about women who don't understand the concept of living within your means?

(05-27-2014 01:30 PM)MY DETROIT PLAYAS Wrote:  The thing is - how you start is usually how you end up

^ This. Once you set a precedent, you're working against yourself.

(05-26-2014 01:06 AM)thedude3737 Wrote:  First off, anytime a girl introduces a straw man argument "Stop trying to control me!" then I respond with, "I will not talk to you if you're going to act childish like this. Act like an adult, and I'll speak to you like an adult."

There's a parenting series of books & classes called "Love & Logic" and this is straight out of their playbook. When dealing with a kid having a tantrum, you say "I'll be happy to talk to you when you're calm", or "I love you too much to argue about this". (that last is pure fucking gold). I took a class on the whole method and some of the parents started laughing and jokingly asked "Can I use this on adults?" and the instructor, dead serious, said "absolutely". Google the Love & Logic thing, the basics are really easy. It's all about frame control and not losing your shit when dealing with irrationality.

Having said that, I find it really hard to put this into practice. One of those areas where it's easy to intellectualize something but tough to live it.

Side story, there's a kid in my neighborhood who was a super bitchy little 4 year old. One time she wanted to come inside and play with my kid and it was almost dinner time and I honestly didn't feel like having the kid in my house at that moment, so I said no. She looks up at me and says "I hate you". I very calmly said "That makes me really sad to hear you say that". Kid's jaw dropped. She had no words for that, I believe because I didn't do what her parents do and placate or hate on her.

I think this is probably the best advice that can probably be given on this topic with girls who are emotional, unrational, crazy. I use the same strategy in a way but love your wording as mine normally comes out as I'm not gonnna do this again or I'm not gonna listen to this shit. Calm the fuck down and you can talk to me and then I walk away. Obviously your way is much more cordial, much more disciplines and will probably go over better and get better results. Thanks.