Post: #26

I know a father who raises his own son the same way. Grooming his own son to take care of dad's sorry ass when he gets older.

Fucking omega in the making. Not the kid's fault but sad nonetheless.
Asocial video game addict. 11 years old and already weighs 160 lbs.

Post: #27

(05-22-2014 01:37 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  Female imperative - women will try to get men to act in a way that benefits women.

If mom raises a son to be beta, that means that because he is unable to get a girlfriend, then he will always be emotionally available for mommy. Also, mommy doesn't have to deal with the potential fallout of sexual escapades, because her son is practically neutered.

In other words, it's pure selfishness, weak men are just easier to use, even if that man happens to be your son.

This is true. My mother basically messed up an engagement to a girl that, I suppose I loved, in my late 20s. Sometimes when my fiancée and mother would go to lunch....often with my fiancée's mother, my mom would make snide remarks.

When my fiancée ended it...she told me there was a reason but could never tell me. Well, I coaxed it out of her and she told me "It's your mother" So.....my mom torpedoed that potential marriage. Now, I am very guarded when I bring girls around my mom. I'm very vigilant and will not let any women I'm dating spend a lot of time alone with my mom and I do not trust her in this aspect of my life. Don't get me wrong, I love my mom. But, don't trust her per se around my love interests. I'm pretty sure it's not even intentional...it's just that's how my mom behaves on "auto pilot" when she's around girls I'm dating.

Post: #28

I know a guy that has a 2 year old. Every time the boy gets a gift of cash, rather than depositing it, he uses it to pay bills.

Let's explore this a bit further. The guy is Indian (moved from India). He expects his kids to grow up and take care of him.

I grew up like this kid. Thinking of my parents above anything and everything else when I was like 13 years old.

If I thought about self improvement instead, I would have been more competitive and able to get farther ahead.

My mom and this kid's mom are no different than millions of moms in the eastern world that cripple their sons before they are even old enough to talk.

I see it as more of a cultural phenomenon in this sense than a "mom raising sons to be beta" thing.

Post: #29

The thing you have to realize about most people in this world is that they are short term greedy and risk averse. By and large, people fail to see the long game. Turning guys into betas is not a bad short term greedy, risk averse strategy. Your mother may be short term greedy in the same way your girlfriend may be short term greedy in the same way feminists are short term greedy. Humans by nature are risk averse.

Let's take your mother first. So, disregarding the fact that she has no idea what an alpha really is or how to make one or become one, she has two options: she can help you try to be a beta. A nice guy. It's almost perverse how today's society overtly glorifies betas. Nobody gets flack for telling you to be a nice guy. That's an easy decision. Maybe you'll get a girl at some point, you'll probably grow up to be a mild mannered accountant, make low 6 figures, and be able to put your parents up when their pensions run out because they were fiscally irresponsible. This is a low risk-low reward strategy. Not a lot of guys, especially of the generation she grew up with, are crashing and burning through just being a beta. Sure, their lives may be miserable, but by and large they still have a stable life.

Or, your mother could spur you to be masculine at a young age, and really roll the dice. Maybe it works. Maybe you're the quarterback of the football team, get tons of pussy, go to Dartmouth, then to the Goldman trading floor, and then on to start your own hedge fund and are a billionaire at 45, and are married to a 25 year old model, and can send your mother through her retirement without a care in the world. Or maybe that's not how it goes down. Maybe you are a natural introvert. A true omega at a young age. You despise your mother for trying to make you like one of the boys, pushing you to be masculine and athletic. Your whole teenage years are fucked because you were constantly despising your mother. You are largely unproductive, work shitty jobs, and your mother's attempts to make you become masculine have gone down the drain, and now she has a deadbeat son who has no life ambition and hates her mother. High reward, but if it goes south she's pooched.

For your girlfriend, turning you into a beta is the easy play. It's the safe play. It affords her the opportunity to live off of you, and while she may hate you, you pay the rent and the food and she can fuck around with her personal trainer (who you pay for) during the day so whatever, she'll be fine. Very straightforward, short term greedy, low risk low reward. She could always try to make you more masculine, and while if you do stick around the relationship will be infinitely better, she will feel fulfilled and satisfied, but on the off chance you don't like her anymore you all the sudden have the opportunity to up and go and bang something younger and hotter as she crashes into the wall. An extremely high-risk high-reward strategy.

For your neighborhood feminist, she moans and whines until everyone else gets dragged down to her level. Is this really going to make her happy? Probably not, but hey, misery loves company. Low-risk low-reward, and extremely short term greedy. She could lose the 50+ extra pounds, paint her hair a normal color, get rid of the piercings, and try and look like a lady. This would make her far more happy in the long term, but it takes tons of work. Inevitably, she will fail at somethings. She will not lose the weight she wants to by the time she wants to. She will realize that no matter now good she looks unless she changes her attitude alpha guys won't stick around. These things are hard, and her drive will be tested multiple times through this process. Long term greedy? of course, but it's much more risky than just moaning about the patriarchy, even if the rewards are infinitely better.

As a community RVF members have by and large realized that the only real, long term solution is the long term greedy one. Guys come here talking about how they get rejected all the time. You go through a hell of a lot to get to the top, but once you get there, the view is spectacular. What your mother has done is done, acknowledge it, but put it in the past.

Post: #30

The cool, suave, confident guy is something that society wants to reserve for famous actors.

"Raising" is very powerful. With very few exceptions, society wants most males to be nothing more than clowns since birth. They might as well give you a free clown suit for being born male.

They want you to be unimpressive within reason, meaning don't work out too much, don't have a "cool" guy persona, just be the right amount of boring so you get along with everyone. Men should not aspire to be stylish unless you're David Beckham or Brad Pitt.

Similar topic here.

/thread-29304.html

Post: #31

It is actually in society's interests for not many many to be alpha.

Can you imagine what the world would look like if every man was a RVF guy??

Post: #32

What normal mom wants to take care of a son who is a dominant alpha, unpredictable and independent?

It would be too much for her because she's got to clean the house, work, too much insecurities etc and if he plays nice, everything would be less work for her.

Selfish? you bet.

However, alpha players tend to be hell raisers one way or the other, and that's too much for a normal mom to handle. "Fuck his future demeanor, I just want him safe and healthy and not too much work so I don't miss XYZ show"

Frankly though, those are normal moms, who don't want their son to be much more than they are, and the dads don't help either. I feel blessed in a way, because my mom is pretty red-pill and I was raised with a much bigger lee-way to raise hell, but I actually see some people's moms where they don't want their kids to grow up and take risks, but rather encourage them for the safe route, projecting their own insecurities.

It's up to them though to rise up or die and whither.

Post: #33

The experiences women go through are completely different to the experiences men go through. They are so uniquely different, that expecting a boy to become more feminine in some hope of getting him to subscribe to your ideology when he is older; will have serious mental repercussions on him.

Take rejection for example; women don't experience rejection anywhere near the same level as men. For a male to have sex and pass on his genes, he has to face rejection and bypass the fear of rejection. This is an intrinsic part of the masculine make up in order to preserve his genes and make sure they survive on to the next generation. Masculine characteristics, being confident, rational, "closed up" all help handle this initial rejection and are characteristics that are needed.
Don't even get me started on the other aspects of life, which only fellow men can understand.

Ironically enough, the truly feminine, red pill women who understand the dynamics between the sexes, and can identify what makes a healthy relationship. Will be in a better position to raise a boy; although these type of women are rarely around in the West.

There is another aspect, which is a lot darker however. A lot of women disillusioned with men, especially these single mother types, often will take out their dislike and hatred for men on their sons. I have seen this first hand. Female members of the family belittling and telling the boy at a young age, to be "good to women" because they have been screwed over by some bad boy alphas in the past. its very damaging.

Post: #34

(05-22-2014 01:37 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  Female imperative - women will try to get men to act in a way that benefits women.

If mom raises a son to be beta, that means that because he is unable to get a girlfriend, then he will always be emotionally available for mommy. Also, mommy doesn't have to deal with the potential fallout of sexual escapades, because her son is practically neutered.

In other words, it's pure selfishness, weak men are just easier to use, even if that man happens to be your son.

They're basically raising their sons to be surrogate husbands.

Post: #35

(05-30-2014 07:15 PM)soup Wrote:  A boy without a dad doesn't have a strong force to keep in line and he becomes almost feral, making up for the lack of masculinity by going out and fucking lots of girls etc. This story repeats itself in ghettos across the USA.

I would even go a step further by saying 'going out and impregnating' lots of girls

Sadly, a lot of guys I've known have just perpetuated this cycle for the next generation

Post: #36

this thread brings new perspective to the term "momma's boy"

Post: #37

Have you ever asked a girl for dating advice? And have you ever heard your mom giving you dating advice? Its the same thing. Women don't know what they find attractive and instead offer advice on what they have been taught men should be like.

Its why you can deep-convert a woman but almost never a man - Women will accept anything from an authority. So all the nice-guy dating advice is not what you should do; its what women have been told men should do.

Post: #38

(05-30-2014 07:15 PM)soup Wrote:  A boy without a dad doesn't have a strong force to keep in line and he becomes almost feral, making up for the lack of masculinity by going out and fucking lots of girls etc. This story repeats itself in ghettos across the USA.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I quite get it. So not having a dad can actually make you a better womaniser? I always thought that a lot of the feral mentalities that you find in ghetto children is due to the fact that their models for masculinity are often violent criminal types who prey on other people, or at least people who pretend to be violent criminal types.

Post: #39

It is actually a well described topic and not very controversial at all. Dad ditches mom or dad is distant in relationship, mom seeks out son for emotional needs, son grows up and mom worries this means she won't get her emotional needs fulfilled, so she goes to work in subtle ways to make son more insecure and beta so he will always come running back to mom. Often mom will make son partake in hate towards dad saying stuff like 'promise me you won't grow up to be like your dad' or 'don't be that kind of man'.

There is a word for this: Emotional Incest or Covert Incest.

Post: #40

Why raise your son to be beta?

Well for starters, he's more likely to be president: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IG_BK2LUFM#t=49

Come on Barry O, that's terrible form on those squats and raises.

In all seriousness, the modern western woman has a major cognitive dissonance between what they say they want in a man and what they subconsciously are actually attracted to. Most women will swear up and down they want the blue-pill provider male who is gentlemanly, courteous, romantic and kind, but then go home with the cads. I don't think they like themselves much of the time (when they are actually aware of it) that they are attracted to the cads. So they try and breed it out of their sons and make them into who women should WANT to be with (and they type of person they tell themselves they should want to be with).

Post: #41

Women raise their sons to be betas because they have an idea in their heads about THEIR ideal man which is usually wrong and not the kind of man that women are actually attracted to and they're preparing them to be doormats to the women that they'll date. Training them to be a pseudo-servant isn't helping them at all they need to be prepared to deal with the vicious and unrelenting woman who will rob them of their dignity and pride.

Post: #42

I think women do not choose to raise their sons as betas. It's just that they don't know any better. Therein lies the problem.

It's the reason why I think, in case of a divorce, the father should always get full custody of his son.

Post: #43

Do they?

Eg. is a boy less likely to grow up a beta WITHOUT his his mother around?

Post: #44

I had to join and make a post here.

I discovered over time with weight gain, laziness etc. I'd become beta and therefore created a lot of havoc in the form of an unhappy marriage. She of course was a bit of a monster at times yet I would not divorce her. Her public image was that of a saint and I'd never win custody and since I didn't think it was good for my kids to be alone with her I stayed married.

Now to fast forward this a bit the oldest is almost 20 now. This is a very bizarre coincidence but he and I apparently discovered red pill theory at roughly the same time. He is a beast, a very big ridiculously strong kid. He's at 500+ deadlift/squat and a 375 Bench.. 6'3", white, very handsome as well and even does some MMA workouts though no fights or anything. I could not be more proud. Now he's telling me about hitting the malls and working it. No problems getting numbers.. I mean this is the time to do it.

Anyway the kid was in therapy for fuck sake over her brow beating and I really had to get step in put aside the beta, and kick her off her high horse. At this point I could do that because he turned 16. I took control back and told her I'd kick her out and since she was now at risk of losing her boys she straightened up (for a while)

Post: #45

(05-22-2014 01:58 PM)Onto Wrote:  Your Mother is a Woman before she is a Mother, and women are always trying to get men to subscribe to the feminine way of seeing/being.

fuck i got to move out

Post: #46

This is a reflection of society rather than an innate tendency in women.

My mother always encouraged me to be more manly. Kept nagging on me every summer in school to get a mechanics job so i can acquire car skills, would tell me to go on construction sites to learn things. I preferred to be a bitch and play legos.

I met a single russian mom in budva this summer thats basically trying to raise a warrior. She had this kid and she would constantly try to make him take charge and do dangerous things and be courageous. 24/7. Like an army camp. Was a bit shocking to me and when i brought it up she said he doesnt have a father but i want him to be a man.

Now of course the lack of a masculine figure itself is a tough hurdle to overcome.

Post: #47

In the end I think they don't mean to raise their kids into kiss ass betas. It's just a result of a lack of a masculine force in the kids lives. Women, moms included, can't be honest with this sort of material. Obviously there are exceptions, but you can't expect most moms to know how to raise a man. That's why a father is absolutely necessary in a kid's life (though many fathers especially today still can't raise them for that right either, but that's another discussion).

Love my mom to death but in my 21 years I think she's only gotten something game related right maybe once. She'd do anything in the world for me but when that anything Is offer relationship/game advice, she's not exactly helpful to put it very mildly.

Post: #48

Most of the responses here are digging way too deep.

Women are not made to raise children alone, most especially boys. A mother does not know how to raise a boy to be a man because she is not a man. She does not know what to instill in a a boy to make him a man. Simple as that.

Post: #49

I have a friend who has his mom tell him this stuff.

She met the kids dad at age 15, so perhaps beta strategies work on inexperienced women. If a woman hasn't had her vagina tingled by bad boy behavior, she went know what she's missing

Post: #50

(05-23-2014 04:36 PM)Ensam Wrote:  Mothers are just trying to mold their sons into the men they wish they found attractive. It's exactly the same as a woman who marries a guy who gives her the tingles and then spends every day trying to change him into her ideal version of a man only to wake up one morning and realize she's no longer in love with him. It's on men to teach boys how to be men.

This. This is exactly it.

Honestly it boils down to women aren't intelligent and self-aware enough to be trusted to teach men anything to be honest. Women couldn't teach their sons to be alpha even if they tried. They just don't have the awareness.

Think about it. 80% of women could get with almost any type of guy. Men aren't as selective as women, and any woman who's in shape and not with a physical deformity, can pretty much get with most men. Yet most women are unhappy and claim they can't find the right men. Women have all the tools they need to get the mate they want and they STILL fuck it up. Cuz women don't know what they want. They have no awareness.

Ask a woman what kind of guy she wants and she'll describe the stereotype of the beta male. Nice, emotionally available, stable, caring, romantic, sweet, patient, etc. But when one of these guys approaches her she'll reject him and go fuck the opposite. Why? Cuz these women have little self-awareness.

Now apply that to a mother. She's going to mold her son into what she THINKS women want. What she thinks SHE wants. She'll mold him into a supplicating beta male. It's not even on purpose, it's just women aren't smart enough or self-aware enough to give their sons advice or raise them into a man that will actually be effective and get results. They will always lean toward the feminine imperative, even on a subconscious level.

It's one of the reasons why men can NEVER take dating/romantic/sexual advice from women.