Post: #1

Do you know how girls are always saying they want you to just be honest? Well, I decided to try it out recently. Amazingly, I really liked it and intended to keep doing it. It is just so much easier than trying to figure out what you should say or what you think the girl wants to hear. And I really don't think it has had a negative impact on my interactions. If anything the girls seem more interested after my honest answers.

Here are two examples:

Girl: What's your favorite sports team?
Me: I don't watch sports. I prefer to play them.
Girl: So what's your favor sport?
Me: Chasing girls.

Girl: Have you ever cheated on your girlfriend?
Me: Yes.
Girl: Do you want to do it again?
Me: I don't have a girlfriend right now.

Post: #2

I've lied to them, I've told them the truth, I've told them nothing. They find not knowing far more exciting then they do the answers to their questions I neither lie nor tell the truth. They will try to pin you down to get some answers they will demand it and when they do sleep with them.

Post: #3

Quote:If you feel something, that means it's valid... I'm not gonna bite my tongue... ok sweetie, I'm not taking you out on another date, I've been out on 3 dates with you. I know I wanna fuck you. I don't know if you wanna fuck me, but I know I wanna fuck you. If you don't wanna fuck me figure it out, but we're not going out on another food excursion so I can do something for you, and you don't do shit for me.

I really don't think this shit works for everyone. But Doug, a caller at about 8:40, asks a really good question.

Quote:Doug: I admire your ability to be honest with women. At what point do you shift from presenting yourself in a way that's conducive to getting a piece of ass to just letting it all out like you do now?

Patrice basically said there are 2 strategies, one for bitches you care about, the other for the ones you don't. I like his phrase 'willing to take a L.' These are the bitches you try new shit with, see if it sticks. Run the honest/asshole game, see if it sticks.

I think this type of game only comes when you've reached an extremely high level. I know when I try to run totally honest game, it just doesn't stick as well, because my delivery's not on point... it's not congruent with what I deem my current value (i.e., self esteem).

As an example, I tried to run Patrice game on an uppity (yet bad) Latina bitch I had met through okcupid a few months back. She asked me what I was expecting from okcupid, and I (incredibly stupidly) said 'Definitely not looking for a girlfriend.'

I saw her 2 times after, and she pretty much let me know I shut those legs together forever just with those 6 words. I fucked up. Of course, I should have gone the other way and said 'I'm looking for the mother of my children/wife/sugarmama' or some other ridiculous shit. Luckily enough, this type of 'extreme beta' humor has worked for me recently. The recipe for me is not necessarily to lie, but to evade. You live and learn.

Post: #4

You are correct, HOW you say things are more important than what you actually say. The best way to deliver honesty is like a kid. Keep it neutral. It's not an attack or defense, it's just the way it is. Of course your value is always a factor. If she values you a lot then she will be more willing to accept your version of reality.

Post: #5

Girl: what do you like to do?
Nerd: play world of war craft all the time and masturbate. I also like to think about you a lot.. I'd like to lick your pussy.
Girl: ugh..? Bye

Post: #6

I think these things ultimately come down to congruency.

Sometimes I cannot believe the brutally honest things I will say to women...I only do it though after a full, thorough DHV.

I am HV and it is obvious. Therefore as long as my frame is tight, ie. "you're lucky to even be in the same room as me" I just talk arrogant, cocky nonsense.

It took me a long time to realise that it's mostly how you say rather than what you say.

Congruency is King.

Post: #7

Be careful with honesty. Learn from my experience where I damn near lost a really great regular due to honesty. /thread-29562.html

Post: #8

Those are some pretty harmless examples of honesty. With more serious stuff (i.e. being honest about fucking other girls), my motto is pretty much.. Only tell girls the truth if you are completely prepared for the consequences..

Post: #9

I agree, first, I don't tell anything I am not explicitly asked. For example, one girl asked me how many girls I've had sex with? I said, I really don't remember, it's not something I keep track of like a trophy or something. She then asked, is it over 50? And I said, ye, I think so. She was a bit taken back but it didn't really have any negative impact. One of the points of honesty is to make sure I don't come across as a provider and in this case, I didn't seem like I was a player looking for another notch. Another purpose of this, is that it serves as a very heavy screen/filter. You communicate this take it or leave it attitude of abundance. When you are honest about shit and the girl sticks around you know she's really into you plus it just feels so great. There is this feeling of freedom that is better than sex with an asexual girl.

A lot has to do with your frame. If you feel that whatever you say has a negative value, then it will.

Post: #10

You can be honest about sex. Just don't insult their looks or weight. Feel free to judge other girls in front of her though. They love that shit. Women have an obsessive need to know what men are thinking.

Post: #11

For sure @Nomad, honesty is a beautiful thing. Like @crashbangwallop said, you can always be congruent when you're being honest and that's powerful.

The other aspect is that honesty is empowering whereas deceit is not. At least in this area of life.

I *almost* always tell the truth to girls. I say "almost" because there's a difference between being honest and volunteering a bunch of unnecessary, compromising information. Girls like to pry into your life in any way they can. So when one of my girls asks me a question I feel no obligation to answer I either say nothing at all until she gives up. Or I tell her I'm not going to talk about that.

I've found that women have the worst AND the best memories. They remember every little teeny tiny thing. But they'll also forget how adamantly they felt about something until the next shiny thing comes along.

Post: #12

I don't advocate insulting them in any way. I have never had a woman ask me about her looks or weight. They may ask what I think about an outfit and if I don't like it I will tell them but again, I always do it in a nice way. I can't stress enough that the tone of voice is ultimately the most important factor.

Post: #13

(05-20-2014 09:02 AM)VincentVinturi Wrote:  For sure @Nomad, honesty is a beautiful thing. Like @crashbangwallop said, you can always be congruent when you're being honest and that's powerful.

The other aspect is that honesty is empowering whereas deceit is not. At least in this area of life.

I *almost* always tell the truth to girls. I say "almost" because there's a difference between being honest and volunteering a bunch of unnecessary, compromising information.

Exactly, always strive to maintain an air of mystery. As one woman once told me: men like to be in the know, women in the mystery.

Post: #14

Think of it this way: if a woman is asking you a lot of pointed incriminating questions, like the police, why do you think she is doing this? She is doing it because she is trying to disqualify or incriminate you. And if she's doing that it's because she's already decided she doesn't want to be with you and is just looking for a way to justify her decision. When a woman's likes you and wants to be with you, she doesn't ask about stuff that may break her image of you. As always, when a woman likes you she helps you and when she really doesn't, she doesn't.

Post: #15

(05-20-2014 09:17 AM)Nomad77 Wrote:  Think of it this way: if a woman is asking you a lot of pointed incriminating questions, like the police, why do you think she is doing this? She is doing it because she is trying to disqualify or incriminate you. And if she's doing that it's because she's already decided she doesn't want to be with you and is just looking for a way to justify her decision. When a woman's likes you and wants to be with you, she doesn't ask about stuff that may break her image of you. As always, when a woman likes you she helps you and when she really doesn't, she doesn't.

I just laugh at their silly questions tbh and say something playful and completely off topic. My mind is saying "I ask the questions around here" and that seems to be subconsciously translated to the girl.

In many ways, it's a form of conditioning.Do something I dislike, feel the ice. Do something I like, gold star.

Post: #16

For these situations, I always say discretion is the better part of valor

Post: #17

Be honest with yourself. You don't really care if you're telling a broad the truth or not. You don't care what she thinks. You're doing whatever you want.

"Just be honest", as soup pointed out, can turn out horribly. It does, however, work if you have solid frame, and truly do not give a fuck. In the latter case, the end result is what Rollo calls "amused mastery".

David X is a great example of that. He wrote about this chick he was banging. She said, "I only ever let a guy fuck me 12 times a year. If he's smart, he's gonna claim his fuck once every month!" Now, David has his rules, and he stands by them, and appreciates that women have theirs too, no matter how fucked (in their own weird way...we know they can always go back on them with the right man at the right time). He says, "OK, no problem." He bangs her for a few days. Then he leaves. She asks, "what's wrong, why did you leave?"

"You laid down your rules. I already used up my 12 fucks. Nothing left for me to do here."

Another one...she's a crazy, nagging type (aren't they all? :-))...and the minute she gets in the car, she starts mouthing off about where she wants to eat, which bar to go to because her friends are there, where she wants to go to dance, so on, so forth. He has no intention of dealing with this wacko bitch. David slows down, and says, "You hear that noise?". "What noise?", she asks. "I'm gonna stop. You mind going out and checking at the back?" She gets out, and says "What do I need to look for?"

"Beats me!" And he drives off.

Both ended up chasing after him for a while...

(wrote this off memory, so not exact)

Post: #18

Yet, if you put up with crap you will only get more.

Post: #19

Its better to give the impression you are honest rather then be straight up honesty.

Post: #20

@nomad77 your right the more shit you put up with the more your gonna get. Its all about frame. Many chicks act all tuff and femenazi but when they finally meet a guy whos the oppisite of beta they literally brain fart and chase. Its pretty funny.

Post: #21

Mark Manson wrote "Models" based on this principle, and I quite enjoyed it. However what I find the best to be honest about is your intentions. Girls get riled up when they know you want to fuck them, and don't hold back or veil the fact that you want sex.

Post: #22

Agree and amplify.

You should never put a woman on your level when you talk to her. Always below.

Post: #23

Some of the biggest playas I know are the biggest liars out there. Just tell them want they want to hear, it's not like bitches are honest themselves.

Post: #24

That would be no game that would be just "be yourself". Oh well we know how that works. It´s like sales people telling the truth about their product. That makes one easily unemployed.

Machiavelli didn´t write his book for fun. Life is bad, people are bad, the older you get the worse and funny you get in a bad sense imho.

Post: #25

I started out in sales. I actually know a lot about sales and I can tell you this. Based on personal experience, I would rather sell a product I could be honest about to five people than one I had to lie about to twenty. More importantly, I would rather sell a product I was proud of to people that was capable of appreciating it. Every time I sold a product to someone that didn't really need or want it, it took something out of me. After years of doing that I began to feel like cheap, used car salesman and I quit sales.

At this point in my life, getting another lay is not as important to me as how I feel about myself doing it or after. This is not about getting something from a girl, it's about doing something for yourself and about how you feel about the process. If you are willing to do anything for a lay, go ahead, I don't have anything against that.