Post: #1

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2010/0628/o...-door.html

“Who are America’s fastest-growing class of millionaires? They are police officers, firefighters, teachers and federal bureaucrats, who, unless things change drastically, will be paid something near their full salaries every year–until death–after retiring in their mid-50s. That is equivalent to a retirement sum worth millions of dollars. . . . So when you hear that government workers now make, on average, 30% more than private-sector workers, you’re not getting the full story. Government workers, on average, make more than twice as much as private-sector workers when you include the net present value of their pensions. How long can this last?” Until the money runs out, or the marks wise up."

Dude calculates that public workers don't make 30% more than the average private sector worker, they make 50% more when you count benefits, pension plans and perks.

Awesomz

Post: #2

This is true federally and for certain states like California and New York but not others. Here in Tennessee, public servants doing work which requires a degree earn 35-40k plus benefits. Thats definitely not getting rich...for that you need to go to Canada, where an elementary school teacher can clear 90k in salary before insane benefits.

Post: #3

(05-19-2014 01:34 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  This is true federally and for certain states like California and New York but not others. Here in Tennessee, public servants doing work which requires a degree earn 35-40k plus benefits. Thats definitely not getting rich...for that you need to go to Canada, where an elementary school teacher can clear 90k in salary before insane benefits.

Sheesh.

I hope what you say is true. That's all the more reason for me and my woman to leave NY and go to Texas or something. Fucking commies.

Post: #4

Glad I am living outside the good old USA. No taxes up to 100,000 for me. The SS / medicare tax though is lost money. Don't think us youngins will see a single penny. The SS system will fail or undergo drastic cuts in the future decades.

Post: #5

(05-19-2014 01:39 PM)InternationalPlayboy Wrote:  Glad I am living outside the good old USA. No taxes up to 100,000 for me. The SS / medicare tax though is lost money. Don't think us youngins will see a single penny. The SS system will fail or undergo drastic cuts in the future decades.

I assume you're fairly wealthy? Where do you live?

Post: #6

This has to do what a person does with their money. If a public worker decides to invest into a retirement fund, the stock market, or save and put it towards real estate, they will become financially free. However, if he just throws it away on a mortgage, a new car, and such, he will be a slave to the system. Obviously in this study, it speaks about people retiring in their mid 50's, which isn't true for most, as the retirement age continues to rise into the mid to late 60's for most.

Post: #7

I work for the (redacted). I'm 26, and last year before taxes I made a little over $90k. I get full bennies, and one of the best pension plans. But I get fucked in taxes. Take home was close to $60k. I never plan on receiving any SS, so I have my own retirement accounts which I started young.

I suggest the young guys reading seriously look into trade jobs. Live comfortably my friends!

Post: #8

(05-19-2014 01:50 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  This has to do what a person does with their money. If a public worker decides to invest into a retirement fund, the stock market, or save and put it towards real estate, they will become financially free. However, if he just throws it away on a mortgage, a new car, and such, he will be a slave to the system. Obviously in this study, it speaks about people retiring in their mid 50's, which isn't true for most, as the retirement age continues to rise into the mid to late 60's for most.

I see what you mean, but that's kinda neither here nor there. The problem is that vast majority of government work is just wealth-destroying busy-work. It harms the economy and steals money from private sector workers. People who actually contribute to the growth of the economy.

Post: #9

(05-19-2014 01:59 PM)Snowplow Wrote:  I work for the public sector as a maintenance engineer. I'm 26, and last year before taxes I made a little over $90k. I get full bennies, and one of the best pension plans. But I get fucked in taxes. Take home was close to $60k. I never plan on receiving any SS, so I have my own retirement accounts which I started young.

I suggest the young guys reading seriously look into public sector trade jobs. Live comfortably my friends!

How did you learn your trade?

Post: #10

Community college/union job training

Post: #11

(05-19-2014 01:59 PM)Snowplow Wrote:  I work for the public sector as a maintenance engineer. I'm 26, and last year before taxes I made a little over $90k. I get full bennies, and one of the best pension plans. But I get fucked in taxes. Take home was close to $60k. I never plan on receiving any SS, so I have my own retirement accounts which I started young.

I suggest the young guys reading seriously look into public sector trade jobs. Live comfortably my friends!

Yes, I think I have advocated it elsewhere on this forum but there are are many pseudo enforcement jobs that get you police level benefits without the danger. Forest fire fighter, park ranger and conservation officer are examples that come to mind. Being a conservation officer during hunting season is dangerous but its balanced out by boating around on the water during summer and checking boats for booze and zebra mussels. I know these guys and they check every boat with a girl in a bikini on it.

Post: #12

(05-19-2014 02:03 PM)Mormon Nailer Wrote:  I see what you mean, but that's kinda neither here nor there. The problem is that vast majority of government work is just wealth-destroying busy-work. It harms the economy and steals money from private sector workers. People who actually contribute to the growth of the economy.

It is pretty much how anyone working in those sectors can become wealthy. Read "The Millionaire Next Door". More and more millionaires in America are ordinary people who budget and spend their money on assets and not liabilities.

Assets in this sense are things that put money into your pocket (Investments, real estate, rent paid to you, etc.) Liabilities in this example are things that take money out of your pocket (Rent paid by you, mortgages, car payments etc.)

Post: #13

(05-19-2014 02:23 PM)TheFinalEpic Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 02:03 PM)Mormon Nailer Wrote:  I see what you mean, but that's kinda neither here nor there. The problem is that vast majority of government work is just wealth-destroying busy-work. It harms the economy and steals money from private sector workers. People who actually contribute to the growth of the economy.

It is pretty much how anyone working in those sectors can become wealthy. Read "The Millionaire Next Door". More and more millionaires in America are ordinary people who budget and spend their money on assets and not liabilities.

Assets in this sense are things that put money into your pocket (Investments, real estate, rent paid to you, etc.) Liabilities in this example are things that take money out of your pocket (Rent paid by you, mortgages, car payments etc.)

I don't think it's that public employees are more frugal than private ones. From my experience, it's often the opposite: most public employees live in a socialist fantasy land. They don't understand anything about economics and therefore often waste their money on what you mentioned: car payments, house payments, useless gadgets and other bullshit.

Post: #14

(05-19-2014 01:59 PM)Snowplow Wrote:  I work for the public sector as a maintenance engineer. I'm 26, and last year before taxes I made a little over $90k. I get full bennies, and one of the best pension plans. But I get fucked in taxes. Take home was close to $60k. I never plan on receiving any SS, so I have my own retirement accounts which I started young.

I suggest the young guys reading seriously look into public sector trade jobs. Live comfortably my friends!

I'm glad you are making 90k @ 26, but really this shows how overpaid public sector employees are. Everyone gets fucked by taxes, especially those who are self employed, which is why I am not moving back to America any time soon. Cheaper health insurance abroad too. Almost 90% of my tax revenue goes to NON essential things (roads, law enforcement, emergency services, parks is all the average middle class needs). No thanks big brother.

Post: #15

(05-19-2014 01:42 PM)Mormon Nailer Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 01:39 PM)InternationalPlayboy Wrote:  Glad I am living outside the good old USA. No taxes up to 100,000 for me. The SS / medicare tax though is lost money. Don't think us youngins will see a single penny. The SS system will fail or undergo drastic cuts in the future decades.

I assume you're fairly wealthy? Where do you live?

I like to keep my financial status private, but I don't make enough to fully maximize the credit yet . I'm in Poland now. Everything is Cheaper. Girls are hotter. Why anyone making any kind of income online hasn't moved abroad beats me.

Post: #16

Probably 75% or more of public employees are incompetent. have you ever witnessed the sheer COMEDY of the many incompetent paper pushes who if the federal or state govt did not hire them would not be able to obtain a job other than housekeeping at a motel?

The incompetents have officially taken over.

This is why I feel no loyalty to my government or my country any longer.

Post: #17

Government work is mostly a scam to provide employment for the most useless groups in society. Women, of course, being one of them.

Post: #18

I think a point is getting lost here.

It's not that Public Sector employees are getting paid too much.

It's that being a millionaire means absolutely jack shit.

I used to think it meant something. I also remember being younger and thinking, "Man, once I can make $60,000 per year I'll be set! I can't even imagine making that much."

Then I got a job that paid that much and then I thought, "Man, once I can make $80,000 per year then I'll REALLY be set! I can't even imagine making that much."

Then I got a job that paid that much and then I thought, "Man, once I can clear 6 figures then I can start thinking about retiring! I can't even imagine making that much."

Well, I make that much now. And let me tell you it's not that much. This is the new middle class, and it's not all it's cracked up to be. I refuse to live on credit like the rest of the country. I could afford to drive a brand new BMW 4-series and I'm preapproved for a $750,000 house, but I'm opting out and stacking it instead. If I can't pay for it in cash, I don't buy. And when you live like that, it really is a humble existence, devoid of any of the grandeur or luxury that you think you'll one day have. For the average joe, you don't become a millionaire by striking it big. It's a slow, gradual process.

From Forbes:

Quote:...But what that analysis also told me was that 61 percent of people who earn $250,000 or more aren’t buying luxury brands at all. They’re buying the same Toyotas, Hondas and Fords as the rest of us. So what cars are preferred by the rich?

Luxury models led the list of the 10 most popular cars for people earning over $250,000: The Mercedes E-class, Lexus RX 350, BMW 5 Series and 3 Series had the top four spots. But most surprising is the cars that rounded out the top 10: Three Hondas, a Toyota, an Acura and a Volkswagen. Not a single domestic vehicle in the bunch, though Cadillac has at least grown in popularity among the rich for the past two years.

Post: #19

This is more about the withering value of the dollar than it is about inflated salaries for government workers. It's just that government workers have stronger unions + these are jobs that can't easily be outsourced and require US legal status.

Post: #20

Actually it really depends on where your located personally, who your peers are, and the amount of assets you have or will inherit.

A million bucks in the states may not be much if you live in silicon valley or NYC, but enough in the Midwest. More then plenty in Poland. Certainly you can live like a king in Thailand. So no a millionaire in liquid money does mean a lot in my opinion, especially if you have already a primary property.

(05-19-2014 05:27 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  I think a point is getting lost here.

It's not that Public Sector employees are getting paid too much.

It's that being a millionaire means absolutely jack shit.

I used to think it meant something. I also remember being younger and thinking, "Man, once I can make $60,000 per year I'll be set! I can't even imagine making that much."

Then I got a job that paid that much and then I thought, "Man, once I can make $80,000 per year then I'll REALLY be set! I can't even imagine making that much."

Then I got a job that paid that much and then I thought, "Man, once I can clear 6 figures then I can start thinking about retiring! I can't even imagine making that much."

Well, I make that much now. And let me tell you it's not that much. This is the new middle class, and it's not all it's cracked up to be. I refuse to live on credit like the rest of the country. I could afford to drive a brand new BMW 4-series and I'm preapproved for a $750,000 house, but I'm opting out and stacking it instead. If I can't pay for it in cash, I don't buy. And when you live like that, it really is a humble existence, devoid of any of the grandeur or luxury that you think you'll one day have. For the average joe, you don't become a millionaire by striking it big. It's a slow, gradual process.

From Forbes:

Quote:...But what that analysis also told me was that 61 percent of people who earn $250,000 or more aren’t buying luxury brands at all. They’re buying the same Toyotas, Hondas and Fords as the rest of us. So what cars are preferred by the rich?

Luxury models led the list of the 10 most popular cars for people earning over $250,000: The Mercedes E-class, Lexus RX 350, BMW 5 Series and 3 Series had the top four spots. But most surprising is the cars that rounded out the top 10: Three Hondas, a Toyota, an Acura and a Volkswagen. Not a single domestic vehicle in the bunch, though Cadillac has at least grown in popularity among the rich for the past two years.

Post: #21

(05-19-2014 05:27 PM)thedude3737 Wrote:  Well, I make that much now. And let me tell you it's not that much. This is the new middle class, and it's not all it's cracked up to be. I refuse to live on credit like the rest of the country. I could afford to drive a brand new BMW 4-series and I'm preapproved for a $750,000 house, but I'm opting out and stacking it instead. If I can't pay for it in cash, I don't buy. And when you live like that, it really is a humble existence, devoid of any of the grandeur or luxury that you think you'll one day have. For the average joe, you don't become a millionaire by striking it big. It's a slow, gradual process.

The weird part about living a humble life is how much hate and jealousy one gets. Some like to show off how much they spend on X or Y while others say "jeez, I wish I could do that"....but never even try to do it. On the other hand, if you're single and without kids every raise that passes the tax bracket seems like it wasn't really a raise.

There's a oil & gas cougar I was talking to, she talked about how she has to pay her bills because the industry goes through boom and busts.

Me "I know a lot people who work in the industry too, they save almost everything and have good lives".

Her answer "Yeah me too, but I need to cover my bills because you can't predict things".

Me: "You can avoid that by saving enough and not going into debit via credit. You might dress good but what's the point if you're always worrying about how to pay your bills?"

Her: "Yeah, well...not all of us live the same way" and she started getting a snarky attitude.

Post: #22

Either way, I don't see the point of this thread. It's just hatin' going on.

There are tradeoffs between private and public sector, choose one.

I remember when people were losing their jobs and giving teachers the shit because they have health insurance and stable job security. Someone call the wambulance.

Post: #23

The fact that a million dollars is worth much less than years ago is irrelevant. With every passing year, a dollar is worth less, it will never be worth what it is today. We as humans put a value on a piece of paper, and we always will, it is a shame, and gets us to buy into the "system". The fact of the matter is that you have to make your money work for you, even if you are working for money at this point. The only way to financial independence is to plant a money tree for yourself and to see money as you see women, abundance and not scarcity.

The point of this thread is not that people are getting paid more, read into it. Its the fact that people in the middle and upper middle classes are getting SMART with their money. They aren't buying brand new cars, they are buying used. They aren't putting money down on a 1.5million dollar house, they are living in a paid off house around the 500k mark. They are investing for their future, and you can too. They are retiring at a younger age. It has nothing to do with them having a higher salary.

Now, this is not saying that you cannot be happy without money or on a fixed salary, lots of people are, and many always will be, but its a choice you have to make. I'd rather have my money work while I'm doing things I actually want to do than work for money and spend the most valuable resource we've been given- time.

Post: #24

You guys ain't got nothing on Taiwan when it comes to snouts in the trough:

Quote:This uproar over bonuses has obscured a key element of the pension program for government workers that is much more costly to the government: The 18 percent guaranteed interest rate on preferential savings plans, which has been in place for almost 30 years. The government pays the difference between the 18 percent rate offered to its retirees and the average rate offered by banks on time deposits. Since the average time deposit rate has been just above 1 percent for years, the government is losing about NT$70 billion annually to prop up the special savings rate.

That article is two years old, and I remember the furor at the time. I am not sure how much, if anything, has changed. Elementary and junior high school teachers only started paying tax two years ago (curiously, senior high school teachers seem to have been paying tax forever), they got 1% fixed rate mortgages, can/could retire on up to 119% their final income, and had an 18% guaranteed investment scheme. All of this after twenty five years of employment (i.e. one could retire at 47). No wonder it's probably the only country on the planet where teachers overwhelmingly vote "right wing", unsurprisingly for the world's richest political party. No wonder also that these days, there are something like 4,000 education graduates, but only 100 new teaching positions each year (due to declining birthrates/school closures) and some people take years after university to study, sit and re-sit exams to get into teaching or any other government job. Who wouldn't want a piece of that iron rice bowl?! There are tons of retired government workers who are millionaires here, cruising around the country in permanent vacation mode.

Meanwhile, the average person gets diddly squat, especially the young. If you guys reckon baby boomer government employees are vampires in the U.S.A. or other Western countries, those here make American government workers look like absolute amateurs at sucking at the public teat!

Post: #25

(05-19-2014 01:39 PM)Mormon Nailer Wrote:  

(05-19-2014 01:34 PM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  This is true federally and for certain states like California and New York but not others. Here in Tennessee, public servants doing work which requires a degree earn 35-40k plus benefits. Thats definitely not getting rich...for that you need to go to Canada, where an elementary school teacher can clear 90k in salary before insane benefits.

Sheesh.

I hope what you say is true. That's all the more reason for me and my woman to leave NY and go to Texas or something. Fucking commies.

Ahhhhhh yes... feels so good to collect that public money when everyone smirked about me, the "boring gubmint drone"... see you in SE Asia.. oh, wait... you still have a FULL TIME JOB.... well, keep saving!!!! You already have 100k or more, right? Right?

and the next time you need a cop, or a fireman, or need to drive down a paved street.. ask Wall Streeters to do it!! They'll help you, right?

To be hated is next to Godliness.




oooh do me hard baby....