Post: #1

I have no interest in a sales career. But the psychology behind sales is very applicable in other parts of life. I was just reading this post by youngblood and it always fascinates me how much sales and game overlap:

/thread-19115-...#pid725886

Quote: In sales, you never let the potential client/customer take control of the conversation. The minute you let this happen to you, you're done. Subconsciously, this person will know that you are not an expert and this will cause them to walk all over you. Instead of pacing and leading the interaction to your liking, they will begin to lead you off course and just like that, you've lost the rapport and sale.

The psychology of persuasion is one of those skills I want to improve on.

Post: #2

did you look at books about communication training?

Post: #3

Zig Ziglar - Art of Closing the Sale. That book took me to the next level as a salesman. The book is basically a collection of real world sales examples, most of them being only a couple of paragraphs to a page long each. Some of the stories have an uncanny crossover to game.

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion - It's a book about advertising, but the psychology of selling is the same.

Cashvertising - Same as above.


As you pointed out, game is all about selling yourself. If you can pull above average girls with regularity, you're already a good salesman.

Post: #4

Death of a Salesman. Glengarry Glen Ross.

Post: #5

I'm currently enjoying a book called 'Sales Essentials' by Stephan Schiffman. What I like about it is that he gives you specific routines to use and that you don't even have to deviate from, just rinse and repeat. Very practical. I've already used some of his routines, although for networking and not for sales (although what is networking if it isn't 'selling' yourself?)

Post: #6

(05-20-2014 12:49 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  to use and that you don't even have to deviate from, just rinse and repeat.

Do you have an example?

Post: #7

Someone posted recently about "Go For No".

Also, Dale Carnegie.

Post: #8

(05-20-2014 01:00 PM)SwayMe Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 12:49 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  to use and that you don't even have to deviate from, just rinse and repeat.

Do you have an example?

Here's an example of a cold-calling/cold-emailing script (obviously, fill in the blanks with what your specific requirements):

"Good morning ............, I'm ............ from ............. We are involved in............ The reason I'm calling you today specifically is so that I can stop by and tell you about.............. I would like to stop by and talk to you about this. How is ........... at 3pm ?"

I adapted this for networking when I recently needed to find an external examiner for a course I'm teaching and it worked quite well. It's professional and takes the thinking out of the approach.

There are other routines for specific instances, like if you are talking to a secretary who refuses to book an appointment, for example. I might get round to making a summary of the book for the forum, it's useful for networking in general, not just sales. I haven't finished reading it but what I like about it is that unlike other sales books it gives you practical routines instead of theory.

Post: #9

(05-20-2014 03:27 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  Also, Dale Carnegie.

Not sure if his stuff is that useful specifically for sales, I think he was more orientated towards building relationships, although that can certainly be a part of sales.

Someone once posted a summary of How to Win Friends and Influence People on the forum: /thread-18092-...15012.html

Post: #10

I've mentioned this book a couple times in various posts: Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff

It's all about frame control. Awesome book, the Amazon reviews are great. I swear he bummed material from pickup, though he's been successful long before the community.

Post: #11

(05-20-2014 03:48 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-20-2014 03:27 PM)The_CEO Wrote:  Also, Dale Carnegie.

Not sure if his stuff is that useful specifically for sales, I think he was more orientated towards building relationships, although that can certainly be a part of sales.

Someone once posted a summary of How to Win Friends and Influence People on the forum: /thread-18092-...15012.html

I'm not sure but I did know a guy who sold encyclopedias door to door one summer and that was what they gave him for training. The funny thing is, he swore it helped him with 'game' before anyone knew what that was

Post: #12

You gotta get the classic Influence by Robert Cialdini. It's been a couple of years since I read it but he goes over in great scientific depth on the 7 characteristics on why we buy what we buy. Great for a gaming frame as well.

Post: #13

@Thomas the Rhymer
Thank you!
Another question if you network "properly" (getting to know the boss or some decision-maker) is it hard to go past the gatekeeper to your experience?


@heavy
Pitch Anything by Oren Klaff is mainly for larger sales. You're right he sounds like Mystery

As far as frame control in concerned give the customer the feeling that he has the freedom of choice even though you're in control and leading the convo.
That's why I mentioned communication training in my post which is actually the foundation of selling and in this respect motivation and persuasion.

Post: #14

Watch 'Glengarry Glen Ross' - my favourite film ever!

Post: #15

(05-21-2014 01:37 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Watch 'Glengarry Glen Ross' - my favourite film ever!

"Put. That. Coffee. Down. Coffee is for closers only" has got to be one of my favorite lines in a movie.

Post: #16

The Alec Baldwin speech was not in the original play (which won the 'Pulitzer Prize').

David Mamet wrote the speech especially for Alec Baldwin to deliver in the film.

And Alec Baldwin only agreed to do the film because Al Pacino was in it. Baldwin is a huge fan of Pacino -and at film school did his thesis on the films of Al Pacino.

Anyway - when he came to make the film he realised he only had one scene. And it was a scene in which Al Pacino was the only member of the cast who was missing!

I always had a soft spot for this Al Pacino scene. I love the way he nearly shouts - and is then cut off by roar of the railway track. It adds even more suspense to the ass kicking which is coming Spacey's way.

And then before he can really get into it he gets pulled in by the cop.

Which makes Pacino switch tracks - and go for the quiet deadly insult. After all the swearing and shouting in the movie - he finds the exact words to make Spacey feel as small as possible.

And no shouting is required...





You can tap your feet to the dialogue in the film like it is a ballet.

For the geeks - there is a suggestion in Pacino's dialogue that him and Spacey were in cahoots in the running of the office (which might explain why Pacino was always the best salesman). And it is interesting that the truth about the robbery is only eventually uncovered by Spacey as the result of a lie he told a customer.

The whole film has so many patterns and fractals. It is so incredibly beautiful. For instance - the most important scene in the movie is the conversation you don't see (between Jack Lemon and Ed Harris' character - when they agree to rip the place off).

Post: #17

Interesting fact.

The IRT makes a small cameo appearance in the movie:

Post: #18

For those who haven't seen the film.

Spend the next 100 minutes watching it below:





BEST. FILM. EVER.

Post: #19

In terms of studying books by salesmen. I would take a different approach.

Look into the field of 'Behavioral Economics' which has become popular over the past decade.

A good book to read in this area would be 'Nudge'.

http://www.amazon.com/Nudge-Improving-De...014311526X

The wikipedia page gives a good overview of the contenst of the book.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudge_(book)

Also - check out the Rory Sutherland talks in the link below. He is my favourite writer in the world - and is always searching for interesting ideas in business, psychology, marketing and economics to share with others. And a lot of thinking is shaped by the recent work in Behavioral Economics.

/thread-32872-...#pid649174

This is cutting edge research into the surprising and often subtle things which can have a dramatic effect on the preferences people have when buying.

Post: #20

I recommend Think & Grow Rich to everyone I know, but salesmen will enjoy it also.

Post: #21

(05-21-2014 03:42 AM)SwayMe Wrote:  @Thomas the Rhymer
Thank you!
Another question if you network "properly" (getting to know the boss or some decision-maker) is it hard to go past the gatekeeper to your experience?

My networking style is to try and get someone to introduce me to the boss/decision-maker, not to try contact him directly. Hence gatekeepers are not that important, because you can build a backdoor.

Post: #22

(05-22-2014 03:27 PM)Thomas the Rhymer Wrote:  

(05-21-2014 03:42 AM)SwayMe Wrote:  @Thomas the Rhymer
Thank you!
Another question if you network "properly" (getting to know the boss or some decision-maker) is it hard to go past the gatekeeper to your experience?

My networking style is to try and get someone to introduce me to the boss/decision-maker, not to try contact him directly. Hence gatekeepers are not that important, because you can build a backdoor.

Thank you for your answer.
I know the person that introduces you can "show off" on your behalf. Is there also another reason that I don't see right now?
Is is easier to keep in touch because they are less busy?
Knowing/being friends with the boss/decision-maker is in general no bad idea.


@cardguy
Looking at the 3* review of Hagios there are also other books mentioned. Do you know about their quality?

Post: #23

one of the greatest sales books ever written;
http://www.amazon.com/Raised-Myself-Fail...067179437X

So many small nuggets that I use every day.

Post: #24

If any of you guys are interested in sales for the purpose of developing a freelance business, I'd recommend "The Well Fed Writer" by Peter Bowerman. It has a very good section on cold calling.

Post: #25

Some good recommendations here.
For mindset I like and recommend the following:
Steven Pressfield
War of Art
Turning Pro.
Do the work

Julien Smith
The Flinch