Post: #1

Never being in love.

Never had a girlfriend.

As such - I'm curious.

How do go from loving somebody to hating them?

Is it a gradual thing - or is it something that comes on suddenly?

As a single guy I'm amazed at the messy break-ups I see. Imagine how weird it would be if you saw dog owners declaring how much they hate their dogs every few years?

Also - having experienced this. How can you ever really love again - once you have seen how your own feelings can flip over in this way?

To be fair. I have noticed it is betas who seem to end up most getting wrapped up in how much they hate their ex. So maybe there is a self-selecting group here. Something to do with betas being unable to deal with the reality of women and the fact that their life isn't going to be the fairytale they once dreamed of.

I hope my rambling sparks something interesting...

Post: #2

For me it went gradually. As my ex started to annoy me more I would just start hating her more and more but as long as she calmed down eventually and made up for things, I could till go back to having some sorr of positive feelings you might describe as love for her. When she went back to her annoying ways again, I decided leaving her was the best thing to do. The behaviour she showed after that left me profoundly shocked. I have never seen a person turn so cold and show such disgusting behaviour. All in all I think it is a combination of expecting decent behaviour, the shock of seeing opposite behaviour and the way she annoyed me that made me hate her.

worth mentioning: that breakup and that display of behaviour is what turned me into no longer wanting to be "beta". I'm glad it happened. I had to learn one way or another

Post: #3

To be honest, i never truly hated the x's. I was legitimately angry enough at those times to tell them i did if i thought it would hurt them. Even them i would get over thinking about them at all in a few months. I was angry over lost time and opportunity, or money wasted. I left the majority of my relations successful, but still wouldn't forgive them for incompetence or disloyalty. To know judging them is useless takes either many cycles of shacking with women or ideas from a manosphere site. The only question i still wondered about was why a few asked to have sex after i did my best to scorch the earth.

Post: #4

Interesting post as usual, Cardguy. Back in my beta days, love was a feeling I thought I felt, in regards to multiple women. However, after a break-up, I have determined that what I felt wasn't the textbook definition of love; instead, it was infatuation. In my opinion, love is defined by reluctancy, attraction and the inability to be alone. Interestingly, there are women who I've been with for long periods of time who grew more attractive to me as I convinced myself I was "in love." But now, as I have begun thinking with a red pill mentality, a steady relationship with a girl, filled with "feelings" and the like, is not something I feel necessary or something one should strive to find.

Both of my LTRs fizzled due to a specific occasion, instance, or even conversation. I realized one relationship was going to spill because a girl told me six months ahead of time that we will have to break up in six months. Another broke up with me on-and-off so she could sleep with some guy.

Retrospectively, I can assure you that I was, for the most part, a "by definition" beta, with a lack of frame and an obsession with those who paid me attention. But, I have seen guys who have had luck with women and many one night stands become enveloped in a woman and hurt once the relationship has ended.

I may have, at one point in my life, considered love idyllic. But, I realized that self-sufficiency is much more preferable than reliance.

-Renberg

Post: #5

There's a saying that goes "You can't truly hate someone until you've loved them first". I think there's some truth to that. Girls that I sleep with casually I can be cool with if it ends. It was a fun thing and not about deep emotions. Girls I've been "intimate" with I cut loose after it's over. I can't go back once we cross that line. They need to go away.

Post: #6

Good responses.

I don't mean to push the beta angle. That was a bad choice of words - so no offense intended.

I typed 'hate my ex wife' into YouTube and this was the first video that came up:




I got a lot of beta chills from watching the video. So - that biased me a bit in my original post.

Post: #7

A French film from 2004 explored this very subject. It was entitled "5x2":

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/5x2/

Post: #8

It's been said the things we love about a person when first dating are the very things we gripe about later on.

Post: #9

(05-13-2014 07:08 PM)cardguy Wrote:  Imagine how weird it would be if you saw dog owners declaring how much they hate their dogs every few years?

A dog is a mans best friend, a woman is not, she is merely a tool for sexual aggression.

You do not see your dog shagging your best friend out of spite do you?

Post: #10

(05-13-2014 08:27 PM)Onto Wrote:  It's been said the things we love about a person when first dating are the very things we gripe about later on.

So true. I love girls in skimpy clothes, and that can initally attract me to them. However, I wouldn't want a girl I'm dating to keep on doing that even though that's what attracted her to me in the first place. I've resigned myself to simply keeping things casual with women at this point in my life.

Post: #11

Hate is a waste of energy. the opposite of love is indifference.

Post: #12

Just emotional extremes. When you're very emotionally charged, you can easily swing from one polar point to the other.

As such, I think your failure to understand is not just because you never had a girlfriend but also because you're not a very emotionally charged person.

Also, a lot of people idealize their significant other when they fall in love. When that person fails to live up to the false image you've built in their head, it's almost like your entire concept of reality is challenged.

Moving forward, you question your understanding of the world and human nature (which in most cases was quite naive to begin with). You question whether anyone can be trusted or relied on. Whether you can trust your own judgement, and whether you'll ever let your guard down again.

It's a lonely, alienating feeling and it's hard not to act tough and abrasive, lashing out at the "source" of this crisis in response.

I think this same disillusionment is why a lot of "red pill" guys get so vehemently angry at the female gender - they're just expressing the discomfort and confusion on a universal rather than individual level.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #13

Imagine having a dog who is cute, playful and protective about you. You love it and would do anything for it. It's the best dog in the world and you are its best friend.

Even though you're treating it well all the time, the dog slowly starts to misbehave. It doesn't let you pet it, it runs away or destroys stuff. You forgive him because it's your dog and you love it with all your heart.

You know that it doesn't have it in its heart to be a bad dog and this is just a passing phase, otherwise you wouldn't love it. You don't care. It's just a tiny, irrelevant detail.

The dog then bites you. You try to understand what you did to make the dog angry and placate it, but no avail; the dog is snarling and barely seems to be recognizing you. Even though your heart is full of terror and you feel a primal urge to run away, you force yourself to stay and take care of your friend until it gets better.

The dog ends up biting you several more times over the next few months, and all of its initial playfulness is gone. The memories of how the dog was before are fading, slowly being replaced by new ones. Eventually, the only thing you can recall is the dog foaming at the mouth and trying to kill you. All positive association is gone from your mind, your love slowly conditioned out of you. You still love the dog, but it's very distant.

Sometime after this point, you snap and decide that any kind of life is better than life with the dog who is making you miserable. You leave. The love that was once in your heart fractures and transforms itself into wondering how the dog that you treated so well could have done this to you.

Indifference is impossible at this point - you struggle with trying to understand how it's possible that anyone could do that to you, and you hate the dog for it. The dog is a monster and you never want to see it again. However, if it came back and treated you well like it once did, you could still forgive it and give it another chance, even if you'd never admit it.

You spend a long time hating the dog. The very thought of it makes you feel betrayed, wounded and useless. You wonder if you're ever again going to feel love from a dog. Life seems cruel and punishing. As you realize that that the good things you felt about your dog were all an illusion, you sink into despair. Then you slowly start recovering.

The anger fades slowly, but it fades. It either goes away by itself, you cleanse it by having happy experiences with other dogs, or you realize that it was unrealistic to expect a dog to treat you well for such a long time, or a combination of all that.

After a long time, your previous hate becomes like a pebble smoothed by a river and built into the mosaic of your life. You can look forward to having another dog, you talk about dogs without any illusions, and you can even joke about the experiences with your dog, both good or bad. A slight sting is still there, but it is no worse than the sting that you might feel from any minor inconvenience in your life.

In the future, you end up enjoying many more moments with other dogs, but treating them well only as long as they treat you well too, and getting rid of them the moment they start to misbehave. You eventually get so good at it that you always extract the maximum possible pleasure from dogs and enjoy them like a fine wine connoisseur - with appreciation of their good attributes, but also a sense of restraint born out of vast experience. Your life is content.

You feel no pain or hate for your old dog anymore, perhaps even a sense of nostalgia has replaced them. You could even see your old dog again and would not be upset. However, seeing that your old dog has suffered and is living a miserable life at the junkyard after splitting from you also brings you no pleasure. What's past is past.

You have grown up.

Curtains.

Post: #14

A playboy friend of mine threw a house party at his pad in Florida. Some chick was drunk and making a scene. He grabbed her and told her to calm the fuck down. She got even more raucous so he bear hugged her and started dragging her upstairs where he could calm her down and where she wouldn't spoil everybody's good time.

On the way up the stairs she was struggling against him, screaming her head off and trying to hit him. And then out of nowhere, they started making out hardcore. He dragged her into the bathroom and fucked her silly brains out.

Love and hate are really just different sides of the same emotional quantity. Most people with parents already have some intuitive understanding of this phenomenon. It's the original love/hate relationship.

Love, hate, jealousy, admiration, disdain, etc., are all channels into which your energy flows. But the energy itself is simply a quantity. It can just as easily flow into one channel as another.

That's why indifference is the ultimate burn. If you grant somebody love, you grant them recognition. Likewise, if you grant somebody hate (or any emotion with the same energetic intensity), you grant them massive recognition.

It's better to be reviled than to be invisible. Marketing folks understand this all too well. Any attention from the media, even overwhelmingly negative attention is better than no attention.

If it weren't for all the negative press that manosphere sites like ROK receive, we'd never have attracted the people who *are* receptive to the red pill message. The drama is what attracts attention. Then and only then do people actually take a second to see what all the hubbub is about.

Another example is girls who get addicted to bad boys. The bad boys treat them like utter shit. But the emotional intensity they feel is like crack to them; they can't get enough. Whatever category that emotional energy belongs to is almost irrelevant. "He's such an asshole. But he makes me feel so gooood. Fuck, I hate him! ...I can't wait to see him again."

But if you don't think about someone at all, then you give them none of your energy. So hate can easily turn into love and love can easily turn into hate. They are not two different things but rather two sides of the same coin.

Post: #15

Amazing breakdown Vincent

Post: #16

I had one ex that cut her wrist at a bar when she was crazy drunk. I remember thinking, "What the flying hell?" People held her down and called the cops. She ended up spending 72 hours in a psych hold.

Post: #17

Have you ever read a story where the guy kills his sweetheart and buries her in the backyard or something?

When interviewed about why they did it, the response usually entails them saying, "I don't know, I just loved her so much"

That's the darker side of love.

Common perception is that love is good, but that's just seeing one side of the coin.

Post: #18

I have been pretty efficiently divorce raped, so I can understand hate. The best words I have seen are by martin luther king, hate the sin and not the sinner.
I am not religious (bible quote I think), but that is gold. spend too much energy hating and you are being owned.

Post: #19

(05-13-2014 11:18 PM)Sombro Wrote:  Hate is a waste of energy. the opposite of love is indifference.

I'd also add that hate gives the hated the chance to enjoy schadenfreude at your expense.

Whereas no one ever got their schadenfreude kicks from an indifferent person.

Post: #20

Its a thin line between love and hate.

Post: #21

I would say it´s the mirror neurons in the brain. Once the mirror neurons are programmed in the emotioanal part of the brain it won´t go a away easily. So you have this neurons who act crazy when the loved one is there but once people get bored from one another there still are the neurons who crave the other person like a drug addict.

So once your mirror neurons are programmed things can get very ugly as the person is already in your brain an won´t go away soon. It´s like an guest who does not leave your home. It makes one crazy. That´s why coming together with crazy chics is quite a risk.

Post: #22

Cardguy, imagine your best guy friend, with whom you did a lot together, trusted, had their back, and assumed they had yours, turning on you. That feeling is about what it is.

I agree though that love and hate are the same. The ultimate insult to a former companion though is not hate, but as others have indicated, indifference.