Post: #1

We can all agree that the more attractive a girl finds you the less effort/game you will need with her. My question is: is there a minimum level of attraction that is required or can really good game overcome even very minimum attraction level?

Dr. Love believed a woman interest in you had to be at least 50%. Under my direction and encouragement I watched LtcFreedom and NY Digital put in a serious amount of work last night on two average Latin women. From the start I felt that both women attraction level for them was low, under 50% but I wanted to see if hard work and some alcohol could turn things around. Ultimately, it didn't. These guys were working so hard I got tired just from watching them. And for this, I have to give them respect.

Personally, I tend to agree with Dr. Love. Unless a woman's interest level in you is above 50%, it will take a lot of work and luck to get anywhere with her.

So the key really becomes detecting that minimum interest level and don't wasting your time when it's not there. Dr. Love believed you could detect it within a five minute conversation. Again, I agree, it's just a matter of looking for it. Mystery, had a three IOIs for proceeding: http://pickupartist.hubpages.com/hub/Mys...f_Interest But basically that what you are looking for IOIs that translates into a 50%+ interest level.

I think this thread from Parlay would apply here: /thread-33657.html

Related to this, very early in the night I grabbed this fairly hot club girl and we had some fun but they were probably wondering why I rolled off her. My read was that she was just interested in being entertained and didn't really hold any attraction to me in particular. The rest of the night I watched her dance, flirt, and drink with at least five different guys with a similar level of IOIs and touching as with me. Yet, all of these guys were very different than me, and none of them got anything from her sexually. She left alone and sober. She was The "Player" last night in that club. What I saw, for the most part, last night in that club, was guys expending a tremendous amount of energy and sometimes money entertaining girls and then the girls just leaving with their friends at the end of the night. (And some of these guys had really good dance floor game.) Why? Because the girls interest level in most of the cases were below the 50% level.

Post: #2

I'm pretty sure that you can't quantify the degree to which a chick is attracted to you.

Even if you had trained clinical observers watching the target with pencil on hand marking so called indicators of interest, you'd end up with your problem above, false signals.

WIA

Post: #3

(05-10-2014 04:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm pretty sure that you can't quantify the degree to which a chick is attracted to you.

Even if you had trained clinical observers watching the target with pencil on hand marking so called indicators of interest, you'd end up with your problem above, false signals.

WIA

This is true, but don't you ever get a vibe (gut feeling) if a girl is feeling your or not ? Then decide whether to eject or not ?

Post: #4

The thing with minimum attraction levels is that it varies depending on the environment. That girl was a player in the nightclub, but is she a player at the supermarket? Are there lines of guys waiting to come up to dance with her on the public transit? These guys may gawk, but they probably won't do anything.

The problem with clubs isn't even that girls are superficial but that they have negative attention span, especially as they drink with the music getting louder and then everyone is suddenly courageous and can approach. Unless you're beyond larger than life, you'll have to grind it out because you're competing with so many factors. The nightclub is the pit, and even if you roll in with the positivity, high energy, status, good looks (genetics/dress/physique), you have to be ready to pounce at a moment's notice because there's at least a dozen other guys with the same creds.

The other night I was at a hipstery club, got there early and was the first guy to approach this girl on the edge of the bar with 2 friends in earshot. She was dropping 'ioi's', asking my name, saying I'm funny, dilating her pupils and all that jazz. The club starts hopping and her friends were right next to her, there were a bunch of British guys clamoring in the background trying to get people to notice the sound of their voices so they could run 'don't fuck up game', a group of guys trying to get the 3 girls to come to their bbq tomorrow. I try and isolate the girl, nothing doing. She goes to the bathroom and runs into an old friend who can hook her up with someone in her 'industry'. Gotta build up that career right? Some tall guy starts bullshitting with her friends about how he's an artist, she comes back and starts HRing him as I'm bullshitting with my friend. All that attraction built earlier is whitewashed; she has new attention to feed off of. The funny thing is she was still rubbing up on me at the bar as I looked away from her as I finish my drink. And it's not because she even remembers the BS convo we had earlier (I don't even remember), but because I had presence and indifference and did not give a fuck that she was there, unlike literally every guy around her. The problem with this is I'm literally surrounded in the pit and if I reopened, would be competing with all this nonsense as the situation has exploded. Could I befriend everyone, merge groups, be the life of the party, AMOG the bullshit artist, get the Brits too drunk to fuck and overcome the odds to get this girl? Sure, but I'd rather wake up and approach a new girl in the daytime without these 900000 factors slowing me down.

Timing and environment are crucial to game. You can meet a girl's minimum attraction level one day and not the next, maybe at night but not in the daytime or whatever factor it is. It's all about calibration and finding which environment tailors best to displaying yourself. If it's a slow Tuesday night, the girl has no plans and is not getting attention, and you're present, you will get more time to game her than on Friday night prime time club night.

I'm starting to find game is the easy part. Once you can approach, tease, build comfort and escalate, it's all about the details that make these processes possible. It's the environment, logistics and tightrope timing that make or break you.

Post: #5

@Archie If that's the case, then that means you basically have to run down every girl you find attractive until it just plays out.

@unbowed So you are saying perceived attraction is subjective based on the location or circumstance you meet the girl? That a girl might find you 70% attractive in a book store but 40% attractive in club?

Post: #6

"@unbowed So you are saying perceived attraction is subjective based on the location or circumstance you meet the girl? That a girl might find you 70% attractive in a book store but 40% attractive in club?"

A social setting can definitely raise your attractiveness.

If you have a club On-Lock and you're popping bottles at the owner's table and a chick sees you, how do you think she will perceive your value?

If she sees you at Borders reading a book and if she doesn't have significant physical attraction to you, then you may have to put in more 'work' gaming her.

That's why I preach about building your niche and being the Top Dog in at least one arena of life that has a steady flow of women.

Post: #7

(05-10-2014 04:57 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @Archie If that's the case, then that means you basically have to run down every girl you find attractive until it just plays out.

I guess that's why they call it a numbers game. It's not like you can snipe out girls who you know has a 50%> interest level.

You know speaking of this interest level, he was a constantly featured on askmen.com that's where i remember him from.

Post: #8

An easy rule I go by to tell if a chick has 50%+ attraction about myself, is the type and how many IOI's she sends.

If a girl looks at you once, then she could be casually glancing around.

If she looks at you twice it might just be that you remind her of someone she knows, but she's not sexual in intent.

If she looks at you 3 times than there's definitely a strong interest and attraction.

Also the TYPE of look she gives you. If she gives you bedroom eyes the first time, then there's your signal cowboy.

Regardless, approach because some girls are shy as hell and won't communicate clearly their intentions.

Post: #9

(05-10-2014 05:04 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  A social setting can definitely raise your attractiveness.

If you have a club On-Lock and you're popping bottles at the owner's table and a chick sees you, how do you think she will perceive your value?

If she sees you at Borders reading a book and if she doesn't have significant physical attraction to you, then you may have to put in more 'work' gaming her.

That's why I preach about building your niche and being the Top Dog in at least one arena of life that has a steady flow of women.

Yep, club game is great if, like McQueen, you live in it which makes it natural to have bottles, connections, perks, etc. I only go to clubs occasionally which puts me way out of my element compared to people who are there 3-5 times a week. Definitely not saying you can't pull, but you'll be working hard instead of smart that way.

(05-10-2014 05:09 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  Regardless, approach because some girls are shy as hell and won't communicate clearly their intentions.

Also, this. Just approach. Looks matter to a degree, but you have to open your mouth to get the process going. Eye contact is overrated pre-approach. I only pay attention to it when I'm talking to the girl. It matters so much more if she's looking around the room or staring at her phone while you talk to her rather than in looking for a greenlight to approach.

Nomad, do you daygame at all?

Post: #10

The first moment of contact (first impression) is crucial. This is when I can gauge her attraction for me based on how receptive she is, especially if I invade her personal space. Here you can tell is she is interested or just wants to leech off your social status and look hot/wanted. Frame control- it's a matter of assuming she is into me and how much I can get away with... She just wants to be taken. Implementing this irones out any creases as to why we are interacting. The underlying tension is there and her attraction is increasing because I am directing it.

That being said, game is just a supplement to who you are. You attract her enough to get her attention to be able to game her.

On the topic of its subjectivity, I agree with unbowed. Your attractiveness is augmented by your environment i.e. what your status is in that area/scenario, just like many other variables.

Post: #11

(05-10-2014 04:44 PM)kaotic Wrote:  

(05-10-2014 04:28 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I'm pretty sure that you can't quantify the degree to which a chick is attracted to you.

Even if you had trained clinical observers watching the target with pencil on hand marking so called indicators of interest, you'd end up with your problem above, false signals.

WIA

This is true, but don't you ever get a vibe (gut feeling) if a girl is feeling your or not ? Then decide whether to eject or not ?

Yeah, gut feeling, but unquantifiable.

But it's very easy to let your gut feelings get in the way of a pick up.

All most guys want to do is say a few words, take a few drinks, and head back to the hotel.

There's so much more.

WIA

Post: #12

(05-10-2014 04:57 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  @Archie If that's the case, then that means you basically have to run down every girl you find attractive until it just plays out.

That's your system actually.

You ping a bunch of attractive girls until you get a good reaction.
Go direct, go fast, 3 second rule, Turn and burn, nothing phases you.

You can get a lot of false positives. I used to do this and would find myself in situations where the chick is just basking in my attention for a few hours, even after kino, kisses...

You can also get false negatives. Holla at a chick, she rebuffs you. Later on her friend says that she actually likes you.

I suggest that you push past hostility and indifference, and don't rely on IOI's or IOD's, because a girl twirling her hair in front of you might mean
- she's interested and she's preening
- she's bored

A girl that maintains eye contact can mean
- she's in to you
- she's trying to intimidate you

A girl that insults you
- is intimidated by you
- is interested and wants to play
- doesn't like you

These indicators aren't universal (people do odd things when they're nervous or stressed), and most of the game is looking past the surface and into the core of the interaction.

I know I'm not the only one that has walked into a store with no intention of buying something and left with something.

Sales is about uncovering those unmet needs. About using the subconscious and the emotions to over-rule the logical mind.

Game is much the same way, in my experience at least.

But the whole mini-attraction level, you need to debrief your chicks. Not because she can give you a true play by play of what is going on in her mind - but because you can gain insight into the variety of ways she's been lead to bed.

I've said this before, they're not all fucking George Clooney.

Most folks in the game tend to link attraction to sex, and think that a woman will only take dick from a guy who she finds sexually attractive. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Girls typically don't know what they want. (Men too, but we're loath to admit it)
And even when they get what they say they want, they're often unhappy. (Men as well)

The gap between reality and expectations - that's where the magic happens. (and not just in sleeping with women)

WIA

Post: #13

I think this concept is so important I wanted to give a real world example. So, I will take girls, similar level looks, age (19 - 23), etc. but vastly different levels of attraction and let's see what happens. Girl A (white girl) was a facebook pickup. From chatting with her on facebook I never got the impression she was that attracted to me and we would only chat occasionally. Girl B (black girl) was a club pickup. I spoke to her all but 15 mins before getting her number because he friend was pulling her away. Girl C (latin girl) was a supermarket cashier. Got her number checking out. Girls B and C I knew were attracted to me on some level but I didn't think it was much.

The first time I met Girl A, it was a daytime meet. I wasn't dressed up or anything. I have no idea why but from the start she was just into me. Zero game was required. I could do almost no wrong with this girl. Her attraction level was over 80% and she was the one gaming me. She would literally call me up and ask me out.

Girl B, was flaky, broke the first two dates, would disappear for weeks at time but at least she seem to be making some kind of effort. I put in quite a bit of work gaming her and it eventually paid off. Turned out she was having ex-boyfriend drama problems. On the 2nd date when I pulled her to my brother house she was texting back and forth the whole time with him. Eventually, she just disappear permanently. Probably went back to her boyfriend in NY.

Girl C, would always text back etc. but I could never get her to go out on a date. When I would go to the supermarket, she was always friendly and once I almost kissed her in the supermarket. I put a lot of work into her. Pulled out all of my gaming tricks but at the end of it all, I got nothing. Interestingly, she ended up hooking up with an older, rich white guy. We are still friends on facebook.

I believe Girl B interest level in my was above 50% but the primary issue was the ex-boyfriend. It took a bit of work but it eventually paid off. Girl C interest level on the other hand is definitely below the 50% level. And as such, no amount of Game was going to help. And this is the point of this thread. You have to get lucky to get a girl with a low interest level because you can't Game her interest level into raising high enough for her to actually do something. The lower the interest level the more game can be applied to increase it BUT if it's below that 50% level then you better hope you get lucky.

The one big difference between these girls was that Girl A (1st) was European. Girls B (2nd) and C (3rd) were Americans.

The pics are for Gio. Just so you know, I am still out there at work

Post: #14

(05-26-2014 08:40 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  I think this concept is so important I wanted to give a real world example. So, I will take girls, similar level looks, age (19 - 23), etc. but vastly different levels of attraction and let's see what happens. Girl A (white girl) was a facebook pickup. From chatting with her on facebook I never got the impression she was that attracted to me and we would only chat occasionally. Girl B (black girl) was a club pickup. I spoke to her all but 15 mins before getting her number because he friend was pulling her away. Girl C (latin girl) was a supermarket cashier. Got her number checking out. Girls B and C I knew were attracted to me on some level but I didn't think it was much.

The first time I met Girl A, it was a daytime meet. I wasn't dressed up or anything. I have no idea why but from the start she was just into me. Zero game was required. I could do almost no wrong with this girl. Her attraction level was over 80% and she was the one gaming me. She would literally call me up and ask me out.

Girl B, was flaky, broke the first two dates, would disappear for weeks at time but at least she seem to be making some kind of effort. I put in quite a bit of work gaming her and it eventually paid off. Turned out she was having ex-boyfriend drama problems. On the 2nd date when I pulled her to my brother house she was texting back and forth the whole time with him. Eventually, she just disappear permanently. Probably went back to her boyfriend in NY.

Girl C, would always text back etc. but I could never get her to go out on a date. When I would go to the supermarket, she was always friendly and once I almost kissed her in the supermarket. I put a lot of work into her. Pulled out all of my gaming tricks but at the end of it all, I got nothing. Interestingly, she ended up hooking up with an older, rich white guy. We are still friends on facebook.

I believe Girl B interest level in my was above 50% but the primary issue was the ex-boyfriend. It took a bit of work but it eventually paid off. Girl C interest level on the other hand is definitely below the 50% level. And as such, no amount of Game was going to help. And this is the point of this thread. You have to get lucky to get a girl with a low interest level because you can't Game her interest level into raising high enough for her to actually do something. The lower the interest level the more game can be applied to increase it BUT if it's below that 50% level then you better hope you get lucky.

The one big difference between these girls was that Girl A was European. Girls B and C were Americans.

The pics are for Gio. Just so you know, I am still out there working

Which one is girl A and which one is girl C? The first girl attached looks more like someone who would work in a Latin market

Post: #15

Girl A is the first girl (white European). Girl C is the last girl (Latin)

Post: #16

And finally what did I learn from all of this? How do you know when a girl is really attracted to you and willing to do something about it? When she shows up to meet you. It's that simple. All that talking and texting in the world means nothing. As Dr. Love would say, listen to her actions not her words.

And it doesn't matter how good your text, phone or any other Game is. If her initial attraction is not high enough, it won't make any difference.

Post: #17

Girl A...



I think some of this comes down to liking the challenge of "breaking the horse". I am trying to learn to like it, but I haven't yet. I have seen guys turn girls that are initially cold for the first 20-30 min. As long as they stand there and look at you it is game on. I just don't have the patience or solid enough confidence yet to endure that.

Post: #18

20-30 mins is nothing. I have endured BS for days and weeks. I have worked on girls for months. But what I am saying, is that unless there is a minimal amount of attraction from the girl to begin it does not matter how hard you work or how good your game is.

That Girl A is a dancer. She's has a body hard as a rock. I prefer my girls to be soft.

Post: #19

^ Explain a "facebook pickup"?

Post: #20

I saw here somewhere on facebook. Sent her a message and we started chatting. Then I asked her to meet up.

Post: #21

Interesting, I know guys always have debates about the utility of FB on here, but I don't think we've heard much about cold approaches through FB.

Is this something you do often? or just someone who's a mutual friend? Or what's your process? I'm curious.

Post: #22

(05-26-2014 10:21 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  That Girl A is a dancer. She's has a body hard as a rock. I prefer my girls to be soft.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I love dancers.

Post: #23

Guys, say all kinds of crazy shit on here. Oh, ye, I've picked up more girls on fb than any dating site. There really is no process. If I happen to see a girl, usually she will be a friend of a friend and she will say something on a post of be in a photo or whatever. I will just contact her and say something. And just like any approach, sometimes, the response is positive and sometimes it's neutral. If I get a positive response I will continue chatting with her and add her. Then I will find out more about her and just ask her out. It's the same as getting a girl phone number in the street or in a club and going from there. The one big difference is that I will have more social proof on fb because of photos of me and hot girls and doing cool stuff etc. I will also get to know right away if she's married or in some kind of relationship. But I still prefer to approach girls in person rather than online. It's just more fun for me.

Post: #24

(05-26-2014 10:57 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 10:21 PM)Nomad77 Wrote:  That Girl A is a dancer. She's has a body hard as a rock. I prefer my girls to be soft.

One man's trash is another man's treasure. I love dancers.

I wouldn't exactly describe her as trash. She's a fairly attractive girl and has a cool personality. But she is also young, not much to really talk about with these young girls.