Post: #251

(05-26-2014 09:54 AM)turuk Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 09:10 AM)Roosh Wrote:  A question I wanted to field to guys who have been to Russia is on eye contact. Do you think eye contact before the approach is a good indicator of interest?

I'm starting to find that it is. Girls who are looking for men shop with their eyes. My best approaches have been done on girls who looked at me beforehand. Then again, I have gotten numbers from women who haven't, but this would be a good place to have strong 'eye contact game'. Being from the States, I trained myself not even to bother, since girls are stingy with EC, but that's not the case in Russia.

I don't think Russian women are different than other girls. They look at things they like. If she looks at you, you smile and she smiles back, it is a done business, if she looks away and doesn't look back at ya within 30 seconds, she isn't interested.

My first month I really noticed this. Girls make eye contact first and keep it until I look away. They make me shy sometimes.
The funny thing is if you smile at her - her stoic face will not change as she will be keep looking at your face!.. I think exchanging smiles( or saying please and thank you) is an American thing and foreign to Russian culture.
I also feel this scanning the goods look from top to bottom very often. It happens in the US too but girls are way more subtle about it.
As far as the outcome of approaches - I have very little data. Not doing day gaming unfortunately. But very comfortable at the social circle game.
PS. I suspect most guys have more than one girlfriend - that's why it feels like most girls are taken. But I also feel, specifically to Russia, if the girl is not married - she is available. I've heard to many stories when a girl dates someone and then gets married to someone else just because he proposed to her!

Post: #252

Quote:Whether or not they have a boyfriend is pretty much irrelevant for most girls. If she thinks you might be a better deal than her current boyfriend, she'll go on a date with you. Relationships usually aren't considered serious in Russia. If they're serious, they'll very soon get married, even at 20 years of age.

Indeed, I agree. That's why I ask if they are married question( regardless of ring or not).

Asking that question pretty much lets them get any objections out of the way. Plus it opens her up for a follow up question that negs her before she starts asking the same questions and why are you here nonsense.

But it does happen that she is married once in a while and says she isn't....even though a ring present. I have seen this when girls like to dance and their men don't. Guess it is to keep us interested and on the floor with them.

Quote:PS. I suspect most guys have more than one girlfriend - that's why it feels like most girls are taken. But I also feel, specifically to Russia, if the girl is not married - she is available. I've heard to many stories when a girl dates someone and then gets married to someone else just because he proposed to her!

True..happened to me. In my case I never expressed LTR marriage material and out of the blue she had a serious relationship that was leading to marriage.
I should add he was a Turk and did the whole "buy the family in the village a house" thingy. I saw the house..it cost like 9k. Don't need in laws like that!

Me and my wing also met girls who wanted to experiment..so it works both ways.

Post: #253

(05-26-2014 10:48 AM)Wayout Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 09:54 AM)turuk Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 09:10 AM)Roosh Wrote:  A question I wanted to field to guys who have been to Russia is on eye contact. Do you think eye contact before the approach is a good indicator of interest?

I'm starting to find that it is. Girls who are looking for men shop with their eyes. My best approaches have been done on girls who looked at me beforehand. Then again, I have gotten numbers from women who haven't, but this would be a good place to have strong 'eye contact game'. Being from the States, I trained myself not even to bother, since girls are stingy with EC, but that's not the case in Russia.

I don't think Russian women are different than other girls. They look at things they like. If she looks at you, you smile and she smiles back, it is a done business, if she looks away and doesn't look back at ya within 30 seconds, she isn't interested.

My first month I really noticed this. Girls make eye contact first and keep it until I look away. They make me shy sometimes.
The funny thing is if you smile at her - her stoic face will not change as she will be keep looking at your face!.. I think exchanging smiles( or saying please and thank you) is an American thing and foreign to Russian culture.
I also feel this scanning the goods look from top to bottom very often. It happens in the US too but girls are way more subtle about it.
As far as the outcome of approaches - I have very little data. Not doing day gaming unfortunately. But very comfortable at the social circle game.
PS. I suspect most guys have more than one girlfriend - that's why it feels like most girls are taken. But I also feel, specifically to Russia, if the girl is not married - she is available. I've heard to many stories when a girl dates someone and then gets married to someone else just because he proposed to her!

I only met few Russian girls who live in western culture so I can't make judgements on that. I guess if you smile and she doens't look away but keeps staring it means something good right?

(05-26-2014 10:48 AM)Wayout Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 09:54 AM)turuk Wrote:  

(05-26-2014 09:10 AM)Roosh Wrote:  A question I wanted to field to guys who have been to Russia is on eye contact. Do you think eye contact before the approach is a good indicator of interest?

I'm starting to find that it is. Girls who are looking for men shop with their eyes. My best approaches have been done on girls who looked at me beforehand. Then again, I have gotten numbers from women who haven't, but this would be a good place to have strong 'eye contact game'. Being from the States, I trained myself not even to bother, since girls are stingy with EC, but that's not the case in Russia.

I don't think Russian women are different than other girls. They look at things they like. If she looks at you, you smile and she smiles back, it is a done business, if she looks away and doesn't look back at ya within 30 seconds, she isn't interested.

My first month I really noticed this. Girls make eye contact first and keep it until I look away. They make me shy sometimes.
The funny thing is if you smile at her - her stoic face will not change as she will be keep looking at your face!.. I think exchanging smiles( or saying please and thank you) is an American thing and foreign to Russian culture.
I also feel this scanning the goods look from top to bottom very often. It happens in the US too but girls are way more subtle about it.
As far as the outcome of approaches - I have very little data. Not doing day gaming unfortunately. But very comfortable at the social circle game.
PS. I suspect most guys have more than one girlfriend - that's why it feels like most girls are taken. But I also feel, specifically to Russia, if the girl is not married - she is available. I've heard to many stories when a girl dates someone and then gets married to someone else just because he proposed to her!

I only met few Russian girls who live in western culture so I can't make judgements on that. I guess if you smile and she doens't look away but keeps staring it means something good right?

Quote:True..happened to me. In my case I never expressed LTR marriage material and out of the blue she had a serious relationship that was leading to marriage.
I should add he was a Turk and did the whole "buy the family in the village a house" thingy. I saw the house..it cost like 9k. Don't need in laws like that!

Me and my wing also met girls who wanted to experiment..so it works both ways.

I think the house thing is only small part of it. From Russian girls I have spoken to they say ethnic Russians don't want to settle down. That is why Russian girls are looking for "real" gentlemen abroad. For some reason Slavic girls love Turks. I think it is their charasmatic and alpha male characteristics.

Post: #254

(05-25-2014 05:14 AM)Constitution45 Wrote:  Moving from Russia in two days

On the whole it is a different culture here, the women here are very "red pill". They see you as an investment, and don't give it away too easily. Relationships seem to form more organically however, you will be kissing and holding hands on the second date, but will be waiting until the 10th date to have sex. They are very pragmatic and hypergamous, like most women but they are smart with it. They will try to initially entice you by being sweet and "wifey".
Im not sure who said, that relationships aren't taken seriously here, from what i've seen they will anchor you down and batter away any woman who is near you with jealousy, on the third week of being together.

Again this is coming from my experience and I am used to Moscow girls, most likely very different depending on where else in the country you go to.

This seems to be the case for Belarus as well. I just came back and after dating there I can attest to this 100%.

Post: #255

(05-26-2014 12:01 PM)turuk Wrote:  From Russian girls I have spoken to they say ethnic Russians don't want to settle down. That is why Russian girls are looking for "real" gentlemen abroad. For some reason Slavic girls love Turks. I think it is their charasmatic and alpha male characteristics.

Not sure where you are getting this info from but my experience is the exact opposite. Rusisans still get married at a very early age, even if they don't take marriage too seriously sometimes and cheat a lot.

I don't think they really love Turks either my friend at least in my experience. The days of Turkish or European guys taking them away from it all are kinda done, but you could find this in some of the smaller towns. Certainly not in Moscow.

Post: #256

Roosh -- You mentioned day game and night game, but what about internet game? I had internet success on my trip to Moscow...

Also, I'd think Russian's fairly extreme racism by western standards may not be helping you...

Post: #257

(05-26-2014 10:16 PM)_Cicero Wrote:  Roosh -- You mentioned day game and night game, but what about internet game? I had internet success on my trip to Moscow...

Also, I'd think Russian's fairly extreme racism by western standards may not be helping you...

That is true. But Roosh can pass for a Russian since they have guys similar to him with beards. Plus looking Armenia or Georgian can benefit him..since most like that look.
I am more curious how it compares to Kharkiv?

Post: #258

(05-26-2014 09:10 AM)Roosh Wrote:  A question I wanted to field to guys who have been to Russia is on eye contact. Do you think eye contact before the approach is a good indicator of interest?

I'm starting to find that it is. Girls who are looking for men shop with their eyes. My best approaches have been done on girls who looked at me beforehand. Then again, I have gotten numbers from women who haven't, but this would be a good place to have strong 'eye contact game'. Being from the States, I trained myself not even to bother, since girls are stingy with EC, but that's not the case in Russia.

In all Slavic cultures eye contact has always been a sign of interests, even a necessary one, from the days when young pairs would meet at fairs and rural gatherings, and young men would look for an eye contact as a sign of mutual interest

Today i feel eye contact has become to girls some sort of intimidation and gameplay, but still, you don't do anything wrong.

Post: #259

Anyone here staying out in the Russian Far East?

Post: #260

At this point in the trip I'm getting a little concerned about Russia because..

You must expend a lot more work, energy, language studying, and money for women that aren't necessary better than in other Eastern European countries in terms of attractiveness and personality.

The girls I've taken on dates so far on are not obviously better than ones I worked on in the past year in Poland, Ukraine, and Romania, but they are definitely harder. Three weeks in, I no longer consider it logical to pursue women in my city. In other words, the girls here are perhaps 3x harder than in Poland for something similar, but not 3x better. The economics of this deal don't work out based on my prior experiences, unfortunately.

Of course it could just be my city, and I will explore further, but I'm disappointed in the value proposition I'm being offered.

Post: #261

Sounds anticlimactic. Hope you find that chink in the armor. I hear so many mixed things about Russian girls, i don't know what to think.

Post: #262

I have already written that average Russian girls are harder than polish and ukrainian ones.I noticed this on vaccations when I met all these nationalities in the same clubs.
In Russia the demands of girls are fuelled by the oil prices.The good in Russia is that you can get girls of the highest caliber 9 and 10 if you put the money and effort which is impossible in Poland.
Also Russia is no EU.EU is in economic decline and stagnation which affects the girls behaviour.
Russia was top for women 10 years ago but these times are over forever.
But what I mostly disliked in Russia was the harsh environment to operate.Too much harassment and really aggressive people.Also no facilitations I could not find an ATM and some hotels rejected foreigners.The only place where I was stopped by the police.Compared to Russia Ukraine and Poland are a joke you are in the smoothest environment possible.

Post: #263

Quote:Sounds anticlimactic.

Good word to describe it.

If I had to call it today, I'd prefer living in Poland, Ukraine, or even Croatia. It's still early, however. I want to give Russia at least 4 months.

Post: #264

Don't give up. In my mind you need to change your strategy, you have two options, either go deeper, to a smaller city, it must not be the biggest city og its oblast (unless its a very small oblast) as that is where the wealth concentrates , don't be scared to aim for 500 to 700 k size, and you must also try St P.

Post: #265

(05-31-2014 04:11 AM)Roosh Wrote:  At this point in the trip I'm getting a little concerned about Russia because..

You must expend a lot more work, energy, language studying, and money for women that aren't necessary better than in other Eastern European countries in terms of attractiveness and personality.

The girls I've taken on dates so far on are not obviously better than ones I worked on in the past year in Poland, Ukraine, and Romania, but they are definitely harder. Three weeks in, I no longer consider it logical to pursue women in my city. In other words, the girls here are perhaps 3x harder than in Poland for something similar, but not 3x better. The economics of this deal don't work out based on my prior experiences, unfortunately.

Of course it could just be my city, and I will explore further, but I'm disappointed in the value proposition I'm being offered.

Agreed, for them to have sex with you is a big investment. Well that was the impression I got from living in Moscow.

Post: #266

(05-31-2014 06:17 AM)ChrisGambi Wrote:  Don't give up. In my mind you need to change your strategy, you have two options, either go deeper, to a smaller city, it must not be the biggest city og its oblast (unless its a very small oblast) as that is where the wealth concentrates , don't be scared to aim for 500 to 700 k size, and you must also try St P.

I'm in a city of about 500,000 people. The large spread layout and few nightlife options makes it feel more like a small town. I keep seeing the same people over again.

Post: #267

Roosh, what are you doing all day long in a city. Isn't it boring to struggle around day by day? I assume that you need friends to get into the circle of their friends. Hmm.. and that is the point, (again, just an assumption) when you just struggle around day by day you won't get this. Or are you there to apply for work or something similar? The russian women feel that you are only there to have sex with them. 100m against the wind do they smell/notice that. You need a plan otherwise you "luck" depends to 100% on the destiny. Don't focus to much on girls, maybe you could apply for a language course and leastwise you came back with a nice russian language skill.

Post: #268

Honestly, you are not in the best place to learn Russia. Those small cities are incredibly hard to break into, especially if you are not fluent in Russian. The one problem in Russia compared to Ukraine is that the guys couldn't care less to befriend a foreigner. I don't have any Russian male friends that I could count on and I've been there much longer than I was in Ukraine. Without a social circle you are doomed. You need to make friends at whatever cost and believe me, things will be different. But to do this in a small city, you need a good grasp on Russian because your opportunities to converse are very few and far between with English. What was the reason you chose a small city over one of the large ones? I've meet travelers who say Russia is the hardest country they have been to and they were not in a small city to make that judgment. Why don't you try one of the 5 largest cities?

Post: #269

500000?It will be sth like Smolensk,Kursk or Nizni Novgorod.For sure success one can cross the border and hit the cities of Belarus close to Russia like Vitebsk and Gomel.

Post: #270

(05-31-2014 07:09 AM)matthewshannon9 Wrote:  Honestly, you are not in the best place to learn Russia. Those small cities are incredibly hard to break into, especially if you are not fluent in Russian. The one problem in Russia compared to Ukraine is that the guys couldn't care less to befriend a foreigner. I don't have any Russian male friends that I could count on and I've been there much longer than I was in Ukraine. Without a social circle you are doomed. You need to make friends at whatever cost and believe me, things will be different. But to do this in a small city, you need a good grasp on Russian because your opportunities to converse are very few and far between with English. What was the reason you chose a small city over one of the large ones? I've meet travelers who say Russia is the hardest country they have been to and they were not in a small city to make that judgment. Why don't you try one of the 5 largest cities?

I agree that Tier 1 or 2 would be better. Ukrainian guys don't care about making friends with foreigners either. Any friendly behaviour from Ukrainian men should be treated with deep suspcion, they either want to practise English, to show them how you make money online, or they are just plain homo

Post: #271

(05-31-2014 04:42 AM)Greek kamaki Wrote:  I have already written that average Russian girls are harder than polish and ukrainian ones.I noticed this on vaccations when I met all these nationalities in the same clubs.
In Russia the demands of girls are fuelled by the oil prices.The good in Russia is that you can get girls of the highest caliber 9 and 10 if you put the money and effort which is impossible in Poland.
Also Russia is no EU.EU is in economic decline and stagnation which affects the girls behaviour.

I agree with all of that. Russia isn't the place to look for a lot of notches or a good quality:effort ratio. Its main advantage is the number of high-class of women (in terms of looks, education, etiquette, etc.) which are not found in other Central/Eastern European countries.
I occasionally hear guys say that Russia is easy, but usually it's a case of them not realising that they're banging lower-class women. It's a common mistake, due to language and cultural barriers. Then again, if their aim is just to bang hot sluts, then maybe they're not mistaken after all..

Another thing to remember is that Russia is a very difficult environment to live in. It takes a lot more money and effort to have the same quality of life and social status as in other Central/Eastern European countries. I've thought about leaving many times for those reasons. The main things stopping me is that I've already invested a decade into Russia and that I don't like European cultures and mentality.

Post: #272

High class women do exist in Poland or CR but they are unavailable to us.In Ukraine they would be available but they are in very small numbers.

Post: #273

Quote:Russia isn't the place to look for a lot of notches or a good quality:effort ratio.

Now you tell me.

So a story from last night...

I'm at the club where I have social proof. I know many guys there and also the bar staff. Two guys I was with were about to leave when a 6 stood right next to me in the bar. A 6 is nothing great, but at that time I had no other options, and it was getting late (around 4am). I opened and it went quite well. We talked for a while (in Russian) and I bought a round of drinks. We danced a bit as well and lots of touching.

In Poland, this is an easy ONS. There, lowering your standards results in easy, shallow sex. But not here! This girl was very resistant to venue changing. I accepted there would be no sex, and since I wouldn't actually date her, the cause was lost and I started zoning out (it was close to 6am now).

Then she ordered a drink by herself and fumbled through her purse for a while. I knew she was trying to hint at me to pay. I didn't, and of course she copped an attitude, eventually saying she was "insulted". Then I saw her sidle up next to another guy later. I'm guessing that's her move.

Here it seems that lowering your standards doesn't really speed up sex. That kind of sucks because I don't want to pay the same price for a cheeseburger as sirloin. There's no freebies. I'm working like a dog to gain every approach, date, kiss, and so on. Some girls are definitely much more receptive than others, but in the end I still have to do the same date track for sex.

Post: #274

With Russian and Ukrainian girls it is usually the girls who make the proposition for ONS.It is when they are satisfied by you when you make a good impression.There are many nuances needed to be implied.
Polish girls are more passive they never take the initiative for ONS although they provide the ground for that.
Russian are more hardcore and never change their minds.They never retreat or compromise.
Basically Russians are very distrustful while Poles are trustful.One has to gain the trust of Russian girls it is very important.Russians are not naive and play on you on several levels.Polish girls are often taken advantage of Russian very seldom do.There is a reason why Russian women regard Ukrainian,Moldovan etc women as totally dumb.
The distrustful nature of Russians is close to Balkan distrust and easily understood apart from its depth.The naivety of polish girls is not well understood.It is a european element without the harshness and discipline of Germanic environment.

Post: #275

I'm dying to find out what town it is. If it's some provincial hellhole with median age of 56 then you are really not doing yourself a favor.