Post: #126

(05-25-2014 09:43 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 05:34 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  My shopping at the Supermarket today

10 Eggs 11 UAH(Same as 6 months ago)
A pack of cured ham 27 UAH, probably a few UAH more(but not 50% more)
Loin Pork Chops 26 UAH, again a couple more UAH than usual
1 Litre of "Rich" Orange Juice(My favourite one) price unchanged in last couple of years 11 UAH
Fusilli Pasta 500g 13.55 UAH, maybe 2 UAH more than usual.
Strawberries 16 UAH

Based on the prices, all except the pasta and strawberries appears to be local. If you enjoy all the carcinogens, go for it. Even in Poland, with all of the EU's regulations, they were caught using road salt to cure ham.

So looking at an item like pasta, which is most likely from Spain, there is already a 17% increase. That's a product with a 2- or 3-year shelf life and weighted average cost is likely coming into play. Once the stock moves through the system, the price will be fully adjusted and will in all likeliness be bang-on the shift in exchange rates.

You have admitted yourself that foreign-produced goods like clothes have already risen significantly. I provided

Dude, you don't know anything.

Most food now in Ukraine is GMO free, compared to 70% GMO in USA and 30% in UK.

In Russia GMO is now illegal which is great news

Pasta is 17% more than a few months ago!, great!, UAH is down 50% RESULT. This was also the fancy Pasta, could have gone for the cheapest. We are not talking about somewhere down the line, we are talking about now. Also Pasta, is a luxury here, most people don't eat it, they eat Potatos

What you fail to understand is that Ukraine is a failed state and the poorest country in Europe, the economic situation will not improve here for a long long time. The exchange rate now is what it should be, Ukraine will continue to have a very low cost of living for a long time for those with foreign currency.

Have you any idea how fucking cheap labor is in Ukraine?? That's why i'm setting up business here.

If you want to come down to Odessa and tell myself and my business colleagues how wrong we are then by all means go ahead.

Post: #127

^^^^lol you made me laugh.(are you Deb?)
Again you miss the point. It isn't that much cheaper because of currency change..there are other reasons.That is all I said. That guy Special ED read something more into it and for some reason you went to his defense. I am straightforward guy...I don't need to talk in riddles.
I long ago gave my impression of Odessa...but that is my opinion. Based on my experiences,perception etc compared to many other cities I have been to in UA.Your opinion reflects yours but what is your point? That is how it is for every guy in the world in different cities. Some do better in one city than another.
My opinions are neutral unlike many here since I am giving impressions of their mentality, psych and
other related stuff. It has nothing to do with my success rate or even my personal experience all the time. Many of it is from observing others.
It is a talent of mine. Having family in the night club business exposed me to night life and natural game at an early age plus my father is the closest to one of the NATURALS that PUA books write about. Add a psych(1 of a few) degree and a law enforcement background I have become very astute at observing and reading situations. If you read things differently..that is fine.
I should also add that ethnically I am technically American Russian/Ukrainian and of course living in the largest immigrant community of them(Brooklyn NYC)in the world I understand them. I mean these are my peeps lol.
I still don't get what it has to do for UA. What I should lie? As Dave said I am not going to sugarcoat reality. If you are indeed doing better than most GREAT. But that has nothing to do with the economy and everything to do with your game..maybe you look like an Adonis who knows.
I am struggling in Odessa? Really? dude again reading comprehension skill problem. I am NOT even gaming in Odessa or anywhere else for that matter. I am MARRIED to an Odessan(13 YRS know her).In fact I did much better in Kiev but it fits my NYC style.But since my points were about economics it really doesn't matter..you are the one who jumped to gaming women.
I also may not have your game level (my pops has natural game though)but I do fine with any Russian/Ukrainian FSU girl. It doesn't matter if it is NYC, Philly or Ukraine(actually Brooklyn is easiest for me..but they are westernized)
In fact I never had to do much. Back in high school when they started coming into USA I had 2 fighting to sit next to me and then I learned about my power of sorts.
They hate cops but would always flirt with me even when in a group of my colleagues(Polish chicks also).
My wife got pissed in Applebees a few months ago because the 19-21 yr old hottie Russian girl flirted with me and then came up to her and complimented me.
One of the reasons my game sucks so bad if that I really NEVER had to do much. I am not all of that.. certainly not with Anglo American women, but FSU,EE and Hispanic(found out Brazilians like me too..we have many here in NYC) women always have a thing for me.So I lucked out because of
1. geography..living in NYC
2. Being a cop....why? because our badge bunnies(groupies) tend to be 18-25. I always tell people that become a cop or fireman and you can date much younger girls in any American city.Don't even need game.
So if your story really is true and you are having such an easy time than I feel good..why? because than I know I will kill it.
However, considering you are now bragging about your success and most others have said it isn't easy who actually are gaming there and others have met them and said they are good looking with decent game it just makes RVF members doubt you even more.
They are probably wondering what you have that they don't have that is giving you such success.. but again we all view success differently don't we?
But saying they like you when you talk in English I am sure raises a few eyebrows. English speaking foreigners are NOT uncommon in Odessa and they have dealt with them for over 25 years(many came even during USSR)
Again why are you arguing with me? Others on here who are even more experience have question your points.
As for being a paid to get laid guy..um what do you base that on? I am curious? I have done it before and admitted it on this forum but that was back in 2001 when it was cheaper to get a girl than to pay for club entrance.
I am a practical guy and feel NO thrill about wasting time on the hunt if my only desire is to get laid or have a new flavor. Since I had girlfriends etc for me it really was about sex and throwing her out. But back than you could get a girl for 15 bucks (even 10 sometimes) so it was really a practical thing to do.
But again what do you base your comment on? If anything I have been accused of being cheap..I hate spending money.Ask anyone on here....I complain about prices all the time. So it wouldn't be me hanging out in the Irish bar complaining about women since:
1. I don't hang out in the Irish pub(Estrelitos actually became the expat meeting place)
2. I drink at most 1 drink
3.I am NOT a tourist so why would I hang out in a famous tourist bar that is known for guys and the hookers who hang there.

Post: #128

(05-25-2014 09:53 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Dude, you don't know anything.

I've been in the region for a decade, 'dude,' and economics is my thing. Over the years I've met a lot of guys who think Russia and Ukraine are promised lands where everything is cheap and the women are angels. After a few years and more experience, they start to see some of the costs and drawbacks, and realise that their initial enthusiasm was misplaced.

You haven't discovered anything new - Ukraine was already a failed state in 2004. Some people in this thread were even in the country at the time to see the last 'revolution' play out.

And you have got to be kidding if you think Gallina Blanca is fancy pasta...

Post: #129

Quote:

Code:

What you fail to understand is that Ukraine is a failed state and the poorest country in Europe, the economic situation will not improve here for a long long time. The exchange rate now is what it should be, Ukraine will continue to have a very low cost of living for a long time for those with foreign currency.

Have you any idea how fucking cheap labor is in Ukraine?? That's why i'm setting up business here.

Sounds like your quoting western media...that failed state line. There are cheaper countries in the world that the media didn't call a failed state btw.
As for you talking now and not down the line...your point is irrelevant. Why? Because I clearly stated what is going to happen and the reasons for it as well as what happened in the past. You decided to comment on my post!Not the other way around.
Since most items are imported or will be exported in the world market the price will be similar and even increase in the future.
I agree some things will be cheaper though.
As for cheap labor..your point? It has always been cheap and even cheaper a few years ago. I can't talk about full time salaries but cost of manual labor has always been cheap(not just in UA..the region). Many of the laborers are from Moldovan and even work cheaper.
But again that has little to do with currency exchange rate.
But when your there long enough your views might change..so I take it your in the fantasy stage. Most expats end up leaving after a while.
Out of curiosity what business are you in that you had to leave the west to make it?

Post: #130

Ok you seem to have changed your position now, you are not trying to defend your original stance that things are not cheaper now when they were six months ago - don't blame you, you sounded retarded!

If that is not the case, and you actually have some proof to back up your claims(like I have done) then go ahead.

You are talking about bragging, I have done no bragging, I have stated the facts that are a polar opposite to your own.

I'm not going to rise to your bait old man - Your tongue seems to be constantly up Roosh's ring piece, otherwise you would have been banned a long time ago. You keep bringing other people into it, trying your best to initiate a banning, schoolboy tactics.

Why am I arguing with you?? I'm slamming your ridiculous comments you have made to other members on this thread. I have no idea what SpecialEd got banned for, I can't be bothered to go through previous posts, I just saw one thing where he said that you were intentionally discouraging people from visiting Ukraine/Odessa. I ask anyone to go through your previous posts and find some positive information you have said about Odessa/Ukraine.

You also have Greek Kamaki who purports to be some Don Juan of Eastern Europe, yet he pays for sex and not a single member has met him in all these years

Post: #131

(05-25-2014 10:14 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 09:53 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Dude, you don't know anything.

I've been in the region for a decade, 'dude,' and economics is my thing. Over the years I've met a lot of guys who think Russia and Ukraine are promised lands where everything is cheap and the women are angels. After a few years and more experience, they start to see some of the costs and drawbacks, and realise that their initial enthusiasm was misplaced.

You haven't discovered anything new - Ukraine was already a failed state in 2004. Some people in this thread were even in the country at the time to see the last 'revolution' play out.

And you have got to be kidding if you think Gallina Blanca is fancy pasta...

We are talking about one thing and one thing only

Ukraine is cheaper for those with foreign currency than it was 6 months ago

If you think that's wrong, prove it Economics Guru.

I didn't say I'd discovered anything new, and of course Ukraine has been a failure from Day 1

That Pasta is fancy by Ukrainian standards, they have some shocking stuff here that disintegrates when you cook it

Post: #132

Anyway I have proved my point now, I will let you continue with whatever you were talking about, this is way off topic already.

I will let JIMUKR continue with his Anti-Ukrainian Tourist Propaganda, maybe I will join in

Don't come to Ukraine!!, it's expensive and you have to pay for sex always!!

Have a date now with a beach pick up, adieus.

For those logically inclined members who would like facts instead of the ramblings of JimUKR, here you go.

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living...ev/moscow?

Post: #133

(05-25-2014 10:22 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 10:14 AM)DaveR Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 09:53 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Dude, you don't know anything.

I've been in the region for a decade, 'dude,' and economics is my thing. Over the years I've met a lot of guys who think Russia and Ukraine are promised lands where everything is cheap and the women are angels. After a few years and more experience, they start to see some of the costs and drawbacks, and realise that their initial enthusiasm was misplaced.

You haven't discovered anything new - Ukraine was already a failed state in 2004. Some people in this thread were even in the country at the time to see the last 'revolution' play out.

And you have got to be kidding if you think Gallina Blanca is fancy pasta...

We are talking about one thing and one thing only

Ukraine is cheaper for those with foreign currency than it was 6 months ago

If you think that's wrong, prove it Economics Guru.

I didn't say I'd discovered anything new, and of course Ukraine has been a failure from Day 1

That Pasta is fancy by Ukrainian standards, they have some shocking stuff here that disintegrates when you cook it

No you are the retard.BTW I was talking about whole grain pasta.If you want to go private and man up as not to seek attention I am all game(and if I was actually there..we could go froggy?).
Me banned for what? I asked a question about how it is cheaper and then went on how things will get more expensive. Purely economical issue.
Other guy drew some stupid conclusion about it be discouraging about Ukraine. Then you specified Odessa.
Nothing more. Why do I have to say anything good about Odessa?
I only bought there because my wife's family. I personally don't like Odessans to much..unless I met them in Kiev or another city.My good friend in Kiev also found a GF from Odessa in Kiev. They are great..when NOT there..that's our impressions. That is my opinion and my right to it. But if you read more..you would see I spoke very highly of Kiev and few other cities.
Maybe you like the hip "cool" atmosphere..not my style and has nothing to do with age since I am technically conservative. I was in Ukraine in my twenties so I do have the young guy view of the situation you think I am lacking lol.
If someone doesn't like a city DUH they will talk negatively about it..human nature. That being said most of my advice is always about Ukraine not specifically Odessa. But I do have more inside info on that city since my family lives there.But I lived 2 years in Kiev so more about that city although outdated. While Odessa I have been there almost yearly except for a few years right and after 2008.
Since I have not been there since last year,which I admitted so I am not LYING. I am going based on how the economy works there. But my utility bills have gone up in last few months. That is only think I am paying atm so I am telling the truth.
My mother in law complaining of prices going up..but isn't it possible that for regular people who are NOT in the center and have been paying lower prices that there was a larger increase? Chances are most foreigners go to the western markets in the center where it is more expensive to begin with and not the food markets the avg. person goes to.

Post: #134

(05-25-2014 10:22 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  We are talking about one thing and one thing only

Ukraine is cheaper for those with foreign currency than it was 6 months ago

If you think that's wrong, prove it Economics Guru.

In fact, we are not talking about only one thing because you earlier stated that Ukraine would be a cheap place to live for a long time to come. I have already given real price data on a fast-moving imported item that is fully adjusted. Other items are still in process due to their shelf life and the way their prices are calculated by the wholesalers.

Either way, Ukraine does not compare well on a like-for-like basis with neighbouring countries, eg. Belarus or anywhere in Central Europe.

Quote:I didn't say I'd discovered anything new, and of course Ukraine has been a failure from Day 1

You said it yourself:

Quote:What you fail to understand is that Ukraine is a failed state and the poorest country in Europe, the economic situation will not improve here for a long long time. The exchange rate now is what it should be, Ukraine will continue to have a very low cost of living for a long time for those with foreign currency.

Post: #135

Quote:I was talking about whole grain pasta

LOL

Quote:I only bought there because my wife's family. I personally don't like Odessans to much

Double LOL, so tell us, how long were you living there?

Quote: But my utility bills have gone up in last few months. That is only think I am paying atm so I am telling the truth.

It's common knowledge there has been a massive hike in gas prices, that's mostly political.

Quote:Chances are most foreigners go to the western markets in the center where it is more expensive to begin with and not the food markets the avg. person goes to.

Nice try, food prices are more or less than same at both, supermarket is cheaper for some stuff and vice versa. Also a lot of food is past its sell by date at the market that's why it's cheaper

Post: #136

I was there roughly 5 years ago. I lived comfortably on 2k a month. Moriarty, are you saying I would get the same lifestyle on 1k now?

Post: #137

(05-25-2014 10:28 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Anyway I have proved my point now, I will let you continue with whatever you were talking about, this is way off topic already.

I will let JIMUKR continue with his Anti-Ukrainian Tourist Propaganda, maybe I will join in

Don't come to Ukraine!!, it's expensive and you have to pay for sex always!!

Have a date now with a beach pick up, adieus.

For those logically inclined members who would like facts instead of the ramblings of JimUKR, here you go.

http://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living...ev/moscow?

Again I never said that... you are putting words in my mouth. I also properly pushed Kiev.So doesn't that make it Kiev tourist propaganda?
Nor have I told people they have to pay for sex.
However, the fact that you always bring up that issue makes the logically inclined to think you might actually be doing it. Since it is always on your mind!

Better question is why are you pushing Odessa?
will it help your business?

I certainly have no motivation to bad mouth with untrue things Odessa since I don't plan on staying there long term(means I can be objective).
I even offered to sell you a flat since you love it so much there.

Post: #138

(05-25-2014 10:49 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I was there roughly 5 years ago. I lived comfortably on 2k a month. Moriarty, are you saying I would get the same lifestyle on 1k now?

For sure

Apartment 400 usd
Food 100 usd
Utilities 75 usd

The rest is for entertainment and other sundries

To have a better time would be good to have $1500 at least though

Post: #139

Quote:Better question is why are you pushing Odessa?
will it help your business?

I'm not pushing, but if I see something that is way off the mark then I have to say something.

I might be interested in buying an apartment here, would have to be in centre though

Well you didn't have much good to say about the local ladies, without looking I recall you said something akin to they are only interested in money

As far as I am concerned, if I bang a girl and have spend less than $30 usd on her then it's mission accomplished. But then again, I sometimes realise that I am the one being played here, I was recently seduced by a teenage girl whose sexual appetite I could never have predicted. Aftrerwards I felt cheap and abused

Post: #140

(05-25-2014 10:47 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  

Quote:I was talking about whole grain pasta

LOL

Quote:I only bought there because my wife's family. I personally don't like Odessans to much

Double LOL, so tell us, how long were you living there?

Quote: But my utility bills have gone up in last few months. That is only think I am paying atm so I am telling the truth.

It's common knowledge there has been a massive hike in gas prices, that's mostly political.

Quote:Chances are most foreigners go to the western markets in the center where it is more expensive to begin with and not the food markets the avg. person goes to.

Nice try, food prices are more or less than same at both, supermarket is cheaper for some stuff and vice versa. Also a lot of food is past its sell by date at the market that's why it's cheaper

You never answer any of my questions so why should I answer yours but about 2 months per year since 2004(big break though for a few years).My 1st time was in 2001. Went there 2 times that year short trips). 1st time was with a GF. We went to Opera(nice) but I didn't like the city. Understand that it looked like a warzone then compared to now. Lena (the girl) said it was beautiful so that kind of tells you what a failed state it was then lol.
Actually the market is fresher stuff often if it is produce etc. I am talking about the outdoor babushka markets where MOST of us would not know what we are doing.Supermarkets were always much more expensive than what a local can find in the market.
You miss the point that most prices have probably remained the same and will go up in the future due to gas and other things. It still isn't a currency exchange issue. Change will come but of course supply and demand plays a part. If it gets really bad due to loss income than obviously certain prices won't go up.
But we both seem to agree on that..so as I mentioned
you don't actually seem to disagree about the economics with me. It seems we are attributing it to different things.I am putting very little because of currency fluctuation.But that's because I lived though it 3 other times and I know what happens. But who knows..maybe with EU telling them what to do they are doing things differently.

Post: #141

(05-25-2014 10:53 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 10:49 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I was there roughly 5 years ago. I lived comfortably on 2k a month. Moriarty, are you saying I would get the same lifestyle on 1k now?

For sure

Apartment 400 usd
Food 100 usd
Utilities 75 usd

The rest is for entertainment and other sundries

To have a better time would be good to have $1500 at least though

Thanks for the breakdown.

Apartments are always dependent on other factors of course. I was paying around 550 for that apartment (10 minute walk to the beach) but I got a deal because I wanted it long term. I think he was getting 700 to 800 during summer season. They definitely wanted to get paid in US dollars which I thought was weird but apparently people like to hoard them there. The exchange rate was 5 to 1 at the time. A few months after I left it went to 8 to 1... haha

I remember food was around 100 a month.

I can't remember utilities to be honest.

Going out I could blow 100 easily but there was a lot of drinking involved and food.

Now I'm starting to wonder where I blew the 2k. hah

Post: #142

(05-25-2014 10:56 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  

Quote:Better question is why are you pushing Odessa?
will it help your business?

I'm not pushing, but if I see something that is way off the mark then I have to say something.

I might be interested in buying an apartment here, would have to be in centre though

Well you didn't have much good to say about the local ladies, without looking I recall you said something akin to they are only interested in money

As far as I am concerned, if I bang a girl and have spend less than $30 usd on her then it's mission accomplished. But then again, I sometimes realise that I am the one being played here, I was recently seduced by a teenage girl whose sexual appetite I could never have predicted. Aftrerwards I felt cheap and abused

I see...well I certainly probably said a great many its about money. But then again the girls who hang in places foreigners go to usually either :
1. want money. I don't mean cash payments. I mean entertainment. But that is not specific to Odessa. In fact its general FSU mentality, even here in NYC. Heck my own mom was conniving.... lol.
It is a cultural thing.
Man needs to take care of women..old fashion.Therefore he needs a payroll. Village girls from the tiny villagers are quite different though.
Odessa money is more important than other cities though..it is the culture of Odessans...Capitalism.
2. Often more wealthy Ukrainians hang in those places. They tend to want guy who has more than they do. If you think about it it is the same in America for many women.
Funny you mentioned Irish pub....that place was never a good place to meet women. The few women there were never that hot and rumor has it most are whores.
I say Rumor because the hookers there don't act like there working and for all events and purposes just look like they are hanging out. But if they are in the mood it seems they do sell themselves. They even turn guys down when they aren't in the mood.
My flat is in Arcadia near the big pointy monument April square. I never bought in the center because in the same price range the flats in the center were in buildings that were old and decaying.
I made a mistake because the flats in center shot up in price.
What I was talking about before was that rental prices and real estate is messed up in Odessa.More so than other cities.
Back in 2002-2003 landlords for short term actually got away with higher prices than Kiev even due to low availability .
They then started building all those new buildings. Often they had structural problems. If you ever drive down Fransuky blvd I am sure you noticed the leaning building?
Because of that and decrease in population(jews moving away, others going to Kiev) there were many empty apts but since prices were artificially going up double digits no one complained.
my flat went for 33k in 2003 to 135k in 2007.
When the crash came in 2008 prices went down more than half. They risen a bit but never as high as before. In Kiev, Donetsk, Kharkov, and most cities prices went back up more. This makes rental market pretty cheap in Odessa.But I will die swearing it isn't due to currency issues, especially since my flat actually I believe went up a bit this year.
So I agree that unless demand goes up good rental deals can be had now and next few years.

Post: #143

Who can blame me, all I see is a huge block of babble. At least use some paragraphing and spaces after commas etc. Even less readable on my phone

Post: #144

(05-25-2014 11:59 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  Who can blame me, all I see is a huge block of babble. At least use some paragraphing and spaces after commas etc. Even less readable on my phone

Go read on a normal tablet..pc Blame who? We are in love aren't we? we made up yes?

Post: #145

(05-25-2014 11:28 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 10:53 AM)Moriarty Wrote:  

(05-25-2014 10:49 AM)worldwidetraveler Wrote:  I was there roughly 5 years ago. I lived comfortably on 2k a month. Moriarty, are you saying I would get the same lifestyle on 1k now?

For sure

Apartment 400 usd
Food 100 usd
Utilities 75 usd

The rest is for entertainment and other sundries

To have a better time would be good to have $1500 at least though

Thanks for the breakdown.

Apartments are always dependent on other factors of course. I was paying around 550 for that apartment (10 minute walk to the beach) but I got a deal because I wanted it long term. I think he was getting 700 to 800 during summer season. They definitely wanted to get paid in US dollars which I thought was weird but apparently people like to hoard them there. The exchange rate was 5 to 1 at the time. A few months after I left it went to 8 to 1... haha

I remember food was around 100 a month.

I can't remember utilities to be honest.

Going out I could blow 100 easily but there was a lot of drinking involved and food.

Now I'm starting to wonder where I blew the 2k. hah

I lived on Kiev on about 1k a month but things were a lot cheaper back then and my flat utilities were paid by my job.
I agree that it is possible what Moriarty said about some clubs dropping cover in Kiev. Back in the day many of the hottest clubs(111, Caribbean club) had no cover. Famous Al Capone cost I think 3-4 bucks to get in.
Odessa:Unfortunately except for Capt Morgan(maybe it does now?) all clubs I went to had a cover and kept going up exponentially . Drinks as well.
Irish pub the cheapest beer cost in 2006 I think 80 cents . how much now? Has it really gone down much?
Since Mariarty is my arch enemy it seems (jk) I guess I am Sherlock Holmes but I agree with him that Odessa and Ukraine in general has always been overpriced.Maybe that is what we are whining about? not the sluts.
But do I believe that the society will ever correct the mentality of catering to the masses and not exclusivity? I think not. Even in NYC going to a Russian club or supermarket is overpriced. It is an ingrained mental trait...if something is cheap it isn't good.So if prices are lowering they must be desperate. I say this because the mentality has always been" we will serve the well to do who can pay"
We have all been to those cafes in the center that are almost empty or most customers are sipping a cheap beer or cup of tea.

Now as for cheap living. Here is a site I like to compare RE:
http://rielt.od.ua/flats-rent/view/3605881/(whole country)
You can check rentals..most I assume are long term. There is a big fluctuation that doesn't follow a pattern. You can often find 2 similar apts next door to each other same condition at 2 distinct prices.When I checked a few weeks ago it was pegged at 8 to 1 exchange. They must have updated recently to 12 to 1.Thus the price in local currency is more.


In theory if someone wanted to live only at home they can survive at 600 bucks a month(some teachers of English get close).
The real meat comes from entertainment and electronics and GOOD clothing(there are cheap clothing as well).
But question...how do you do 100 for month of food? Possible if you eat out a lot and don't count that in a \budget but I think it is hard for a meat eater.Shopping at Silpo I don't see great deals http://silpo.ua/ua/.

As for cost of living calculators like http://www.numbeo.com , they are fun to look at but I don't consider them accurate enough to be considered proof/fact. I am not attacking anyone by this comment.
There seems to be so many variables in the calculations that when looking at them.. I would say more often than NOT the prices are off than what we actually pay or will pay.Good news most things seem significantly cheaper in real life.
I was just looking at NYC for example....
1 dz eggs 3.06 lol.... try 1.69-1.89
1 kg potatos 2.10 try 5 lbs from 1.99-2.30
fitness club 93 bucks.... NY sports clubs is 69 per month and 1 out of 3 people pay 49(corporate discounts). Ballys is 34 bucks.
Rent prices..can't even go there. Rents in NYC are all over the place, even when you take out rent stabilization apts, which there are about 1 million of them.
A 3 bd room outside the center(I guess they mean Manhattan) for 3200, no fucking way. The average would be under 2000 since they would be counting the ghetto's where the prices are lower and Staten island.

Post: #146

I just saw some hotel prices and I fail to see how they are cheaper.Food will be cheaper after devaluation what does not change are the costs of hotels,taxis,high end restaurants,cafes and clubs and these are the main expenses of the tourists hunting girls.
On the other hand devaluation has for sure immense effect on girls needs since they are paid with grivnya.

Post: #147

I had a plan to spend 24 days in Lviv on 1k USD, now it looks like I will be here 17 days for 750 USD. I have apartment on day-by-day rent, so I am overpaying for it. But for longer term rent I won't spend more than 250 usd per month, as I now know people who can help me getting a good place (10-15 min from centre by bus is okay by me) without agency. So, especially if you can cook well, 1k would be very decent at the moment in Lviv.

Also, having established Taxi driver is really helpful

Post: #148

(05-25-2014 06:03 PM)whoishe Wrote:  I had a plan to spend 24 days in Lviv on 1k USD, now it looks like I will be here 17 days for 750 USD. I have apartment on day-by-day rent, so I am overpaying for it. But for longer term rent I won't spend more than 250 usd per month, as I now know people who can help me getting a good place (10-15 min from centre by bus is okay by me) without agency. So, especially if you can cook well, 1k would be very decent at the moment in Lviv.

Also, having established Taxi driver is really helpful

Feel free to use my RE site linked above. It is pretty big.

Post: #149

You fail to see anything Kamaki because you are a keyboard jockey, we only have you word to back up your experiences, nobody has ever met you despite numerous attempts. So sorry if I take none of your comments with any weight or seriousness.

Post: #150

Was in western Ukraine on the beginning of may... If you consider a larger basket of goods (food, housing, public trasportation, leisure and so on...) and you are coming with Euros, you save, I'd say, about 15-30% compared to pre-devaluation prices... just some stuff got up 50% as the currency exchange rates did, some stuff stayed completely where it was before, but basically most of the stuff had some kind of price increase, but by no means +50%.

It is a sorry thing to say but I think, from a game point of view, it's better now than it was before the chaos: less (or almost no) western tourists due to the bad media show, so possibly greater exotic value, less competition and ultimately definitely cheaper prices.
Not so sure about Kiev and the east, was there in april, cheaper for sure and not many foreigners around (almost none) but it looked pretty beaten up, especially in the center... maybe is not the best place to go in Ukraine right now and I guess there is a chance it could eventually get kind of dangerous if you are planning intensive nightlife, drinking and stuff... I'd rather stay in the west part of Ukraine right now, and that looks better than ever