Post: #26

(04-15-2014 01:00 PM)Faust Wrote:  This actually hurts to read, a little, because I owe all these guys a good deal despite having never met them. I'm a big blog-reader, because I can speed-read and I'm always starved for content, so I know all these people through what they've written.

• Matt Forney is one of the people who got me into the manosphere to begin with, back with his old "In Mala Fide" blog. He and Heartiste were the two people who totally changed my worldview. Thanks to him, I am completely different person than I was five years ago. Without them, I quite possibly would've married (And since at the time I was a fat guy with nothing going for me, I would've ended up paired with a human warthog.)
• Bronan the Barbarian got me into exercising. I was a morbidly obese slob before I started reading his blog, and after a few months of his "No excuses, get to the exercise bike, fatty," posts, I had lost something like 40 pounds.
• Danger and Play got me into juicing, and into lifting weights. His writings always had an attitude of SUCCESS around them, like you were reading something from a man who had it made in life. I was a regular reader of his for a long time. It sounds rather pathetic to say this in public, but I always wanted to be like him, and that inspired me to better myself.
• DannyFrom504 I owe an incredible amount to. I don't want to go into details, because I'm embarrassing myself a lot already, but though he almost certainly has no idea about it, he quite possibly saved my life. Beyond that, his writings about game always had a certain air of fun about them that I think is sorely missing from the manosphere. He gives off a vibe of someone who enjoys talking to women, and teasing them, and interacting with them. A lot of people around here have a view of modern women that's best described as contempt, bordering on hatred. I say this not to diss people, because hell, after some of the encounters I've had and the things I've seen, it's almost impossible for me not to hold it myself. But Danny always seemed to be having a good time when he talked about the way he dealt with people as he went through his day. He's always talked openly about his PTSD, and the things he's seen in his life and the effect they've had on him.
  
  

Now, maybe these online personas are bullshit, like Forney says. I've never met any of them in person. Maybe Danny doesn't have the success with women that he claims. Maybe DangerAndPlay is a fat guy working the counter at a 7-11, who comes home and writes about an elaborate fantasy life. Maybe Matt Forney is actually Nancy Pelosi's alter-ego. I don't know, and to a certain degree I don't care. I owe them all a lot.

...and I'll add that in a larger sense, all the infighting is causing us to become like Jezebel. Someone on here (I forget who) recently mentioned the difference between us and them is their constant fighting. Well, the difference is becoming smaller.

Here is the way I see it: quality wins out in the end. Writers delivering BS blogs ultimately lose their audience or have commenters devoted to them and them only.

So, where the attacks on Danny, Sunshine, Minter, etc. might have been right in the micro sense, in the macro sense I think they may harm the manosphere (or whatever we are) for several reasons:

1). Outsiders who stumble on us with some sympathy might get driven away because they're turned off or confused.

2). More men will be paranoid about sharing for fear of getting outed or attacked. This, in turn, will make boards like this useless since sharing experiences are how we learn (and we're not getting that anywhere else in the media).

3). Solidarity is being lost. I always had the sense that "I might not be anything like these guys in life, but we all have the same mindset." That feeling is eroding quickly.

4). Petty, Jezebel-like insults are becoming the norm. While I don't excuse the examples about Danny504 calling people at weird hours, etc. I say BFD that Danny504 is short (for example). So is Neil Strauss. Should we start giving hell to bald men too...just because? This is getting into catty female territory.

5). The most important one: Larger issues will take a backseat. People are drawn to gossip and soap operas. But what else is going on while we're addressing this?

Here's what. In my corner of the world, women are now Tweeting a hashtag called #WhyIDidntReport in which they express regrets about not telling authorities about various "male transgressions." We should be writing posts on how this is the new version of the '80s Recovered Memory witchhunt -- which got innocent fathers imprisoned. But here we are instead.

Post: #27

I don't get Matt's accusations of fraud, though again it's possible that he knows something I don't. I wasn't at the Mardi Gras thing, and I can't say who did what there. Danny's always been more open about who he is than any blogger I can think of. He makes fun of his own height, his baldness, and his general goofy looks all the time. There are more videos of him on the internet than any other blogger I can think of, except maybe Krauser and Aaron Clarey. He's got a whole youtube channel here. The reason Matt can make all those Klonapin jokes on his page is that Danny writes about it. The reason he can remark on Danny's PTSD is that Danny writes about it.

He never hides his identity or makes himself out to be something he isn't. He never promotes himself beyond a simple twitter feed and occasional comments on other blogs. Hell, most of his posts aren't even about game these days. It's mostly stuff like recipes, or minimalism, or what jobs you should take if you're going into the military. This is exactly the kind of stuff that people say they want, instead of yet another "Women are lame" post. Hell, it's exactly the kind of thing Matt says he wants.

Post: #28

Here's the real question:

Should I stop taking Danny from 504's advice on New Orleans style cuisine?

Post: #29

The fuck? I'm a fan of sunshine mary's blog, though not lately. She's written some very interesting stuff on biblical alpha and religion. I'm not aware of very many other red pill christian blogs -dalrock a bit, but he talks about demographic statistics. I've only ever heard her mention her two daughters. I'm not sure she's ever portrayed herself as upper middle class.

I've stayed away fromthe comments for the most part so the drama is a surprise.

Post: #30

There is something that has often struck me about the men that are drawn to the "manosphere" both as writers and readers that seems relevant to some of the drama we've been seeing. I feel that disproportionately, these tend to be men who grew up in unstable families, and especially without a strong, reliable and loving father.

The reason such men are drawn to the manosphere is that, for better or worse, they were left to their own devices early on and had to try to find their way in life, and were often tossed about this way and that. As a result, they are much more likely to choose an unconventional life path of one kind or another, and the manosphere and all that's associated with it is one possible unconventional path.

What characterizes these men is that they run very hot and cold in their relations to others, especially to other males. They tend to look for heroes and form strong attachments to men they admire; but they are also always on the lookout for betrayal and disillusionment. They are always ready to feel let down and abandoned by their would-be hero and to turn on him in bitter anger.

This cycle of hero worship and wounded betrayal is something that seems to be happening quite a bit lately. I see men who form excessive or unrealistic expectations of whoever their hero happens to be; and then react with disproportionate bitterness and grief at the revelation of the least human flaw or weakness, quickly losing sight of the very real virtues that a moment ago they had been willing to vaunt to the point of exaggeration.

It can be very hard for a man who was not well loved in his childhood, particularly by his father, to break this cycle; to learn the ability to trust and respect someone over time and appreciate their contributions while having a realistic understanding of their flaws and shortcomings, and without constantly watching and waiting for their trust to be betrayed. It may be one of the very most difficult things for a man to learn.

I have no particular advice to offer, but I hope this post can help someone reflect on these matters.

Post: #31

This is all very interesting to me cause I've had some thoughts about the whole "manosphere" stuff in general and the fake internet personality. I don't have a lot of time in my day to be reading blogs for hours, I usually am only on this forum or on ROK. If I need anything more specific or someone pimped their blog well I may shoot over to look at it (troublemaker and McQueen/ dagonet usually get my interest.) I've always wondered who is actually legit? I've met a good handful of members (McQueen, Dagonet, MikeCF, Vinman, and Cobra) and these guys are legit. You can get a very good sense of who people are when you are around them. I'll be honest when I first met Mikecf from D&P, I thought he was kind of a dick, but I realized, I'm some new guy they have never met before and he was vetting me. He saw that I didn't get flustered or butthurt. He turned out to be a cool guy who I wish I could have talked to more, but maybe another day.

I know a lot of guys who write want anonymity, and rightly so, but we need to know who actually can walk the walk. Its my mission to meet as many of the writers here as I can. I love meeting people, seeing their mannerism, hearing their back story and etc. I guess for me on here its a way of knowing who is legit.

It is great Matt called people out on their bs. Unfortunately you are always gonna have a couple of nuts in anything good that comes about.

Post: #32

(04-15-2014 05:16 PM)Faust Wrote:  I don't get Matt's accusations of fraud, though again it's possible that he knows something I don't. I wasn't at the Mardi Gras thing, and I can't say who did what there. Danny's always been more open about who he is than any blogger I can think of. He makes fun of his own height, his baldness, and his general goofy looks all the time. There are more videos of him on the internet than any other blogger I can think of, except maybe Krauser and Aaron Clarey. He's got a whole youtube channel here. The reason Matt can make all those Klonapin jokes on his page is that Danny writes about it. The reason he can remark on Danny's PTSD is that Danny writes about it.

He never hides his identity or makes himself out to be something he isn't. He never promotes himself beyond a simple twitter feed and occasional comments on other blogs. Hell, most of his posts aren't even about game these days. It's mostly stuff like recipes, or minimalism, or what jobs you should take if you're going into the military. This is exactly the kind of stuff that people say they want, instead of yet another "Women are lame" post. Hell, it's exactly the kind of thing Matt says he wants.

You should hang out with Danny, maybe give him a call.

Post: #33

I don't know who the fuck these people are.

But I do know that Mike literally looks like a vanilla gorilla.

Post: #34

(04-15-2014 11:23 PM)The Lizard of Oz Wrote:  There is something that has often struck me about the men that are drawn to the "manosphere" both as writers and readers that seems relevant to some of the drama we've been seeing. I feel that disproportionately, these tend to be men who grew up in unstable families, and especially without a strong, reliable and loving father.

The reason such men are drawn to the manosphere is that, for better or worse, they were left to their own devices early on and had to try to find their way in life, and were often tossed about this way and that. As a result, they are much more likely to choose an unconventional life path of one kind or another, and the manosphere and all that's associated with it is one possible unconventional path.

What characterizes these men is that they run very hot and cold in their relations to others, especially to other males. They tend to look for heroes and form strong attachments to men they admire; but they are also always on the lookout for betrayal and disillusionment. They are always ready to feel let down and abandoned by their would-be hero and to turn on him in bitter anger.

This cycle of hero worship and wounded betrayal is something that seems to be happening quite a bit lately. I see men who form excessive or unrealistic expectations of whoever their hero happens to be; and then react with disproportionate bitterness and grief at the revelation of the least human flaw or weakness, quickly losing sight of the very real virtues that a moment ago they had been willing to vaunt to the point of exaggeration.

It can be very hard for a man who was not well loved in his childhood, particularly by his father, to break this cycle; to learn the ability to trust and respect someone over time and appreciate their contributions while having a realistic understanding of their flaws and shortcomings, and without constantly watching and waiting for their trust to be betrayed. It may be one of the very most difficult things for a man to learn.

I have no particular advice to offer, but I hope this post can help someone reflect on these matters.

Strangely enough this behavoir you mention is probably a result of having a single mom raise them. This latching onto someone or something as the "best thing ever" is a feminine trait.

Post: #35

lizard of oz - you nailed it.

I wouldn't go as far to say it is all "no father figure" but rather most guys are lost becuase they have no true male role models. Don't necessarily need a father, you need a solid guy to look up to.

All through college your only model is basically a bunch of teachers and professors, then you're asked to switch gears to real life business and it hits you in the face like a ton of bricks. All the crap you learned - 90% of it - is useless nonsense.

So they turn to the sphere for help which is a good bandage for now. The problem is a ton of well liked people are just weirdos and failures. I have no problem writing that as undoubtedly many people here believe I am a failure as well (eventhough I have met many people in real life already).

All that said there are a few good spots to get info on things you want.

D&P I read for test info and health info
Wallstreetplayboys.com is a blog I help with that has grown like a weed and covers practically everything related to Wall Street. If you think it's fake we have a relationship building with wallstreetoasis.com as well and you see us front paged or in the top 10 posts on a Weekly to bi-weekly basis
Roosh = great for international cultural adjustments, his observations of human behavior are great and I can adjust a bit before heading there eventhough our personalities are not alike at all.
If you want entertainment read swooptheworld or naughtynomad

The exaggeration factor on these blogs are small, why? It's from real life experience

This is also why it becomes incredibly easy to spot frauds. Once you are actually doing what you say you are doing, you are not giving "opinions" see a "guess" based on not living it, you can quickly see who is actually bs'ing and who is not.

Anyway, there are good writers out there you just have to avoid the idiots.

Post: #36

WestCoast, my point was a little different. It just strikes me how a lot of the guys who write on "manosphere" sites, both some of the actual bloggers and the commenters, are very quick to take offense and feel betrayed by someone (that they maybe held in excessively high regard to begin with). I think we saw some of this after the "prank" nonsense, and also more recently.

I'm talking about guys that I actually like and respect. I feel that men who behave this way are often ones who did not get enough love in their childhoods, especially from a father, and they are both hoping to find someone they can trust, but also have a deep well of suspicion that their trust is going to be betrayed and that they're going to be stabbed in the back. These are often otherwise excellent men and it's unfortunate that they run so hot and cold and that their emotions are so volatile. Although it's also true that being so intensely emotional is often what gave them the motivation to get where they are in the first place.

Post: #37

I see half of that.

Ie: I agree most people that I like are definitely more volatile/extreme but that's the name of the game IMHO. We all have our moments, you shoulda seen me last week! Fuck!

Ha.

That said, there are certainly a few lines being crossed that I see on here after not posting for the last month. Again I love this place, but you can see the trends as outlined by day of broken arrows, also in the complainosphere as a whole.

Either way, just stay positive and link up with guys you like.

---

Anyway I think your emotional attachment comment was spot on.

Post: #38

Guys, the manosphere is totally dead...

That's why my site manosphere.com is getting more and more hits every week.... oh wait

Post: #39

(04-15-2014 06:46 AM)Deluge Wrote:  The only very popular blogger I can think of who suddenly quit under bizarre circumstances was Mentu from the University of Man.

What about Assanova?

Post: #40

Manosphere sounds like a gay club. I always thought the manosphere was full of angry guys who couldn't get laid and held a grudge against women. That was my impression after snooping around when I first found Roosh. Throw in the neo nazi Heartsite or whatever his name is. What good is the manosphere going to be for any guy? This forum and its members blogs is all you need if you're actually trying to get pussy, money and see the world.

Post: #41

Oh!

This was the dude my friend was telling me about who dissed Danny504.

Well like I told him, I'll say it here.

How is a lame nigga gonna diss another lame nigga?

Post: #42

The manosphere sounds like the name of a gay club in san francisco. - Gmanifesto

Either way, I don't view things as a "sphere". The US is the best place to be, easy and slutty bishes along with unlimited money making opportunities. Also, a big thanks to Roosh for helping me discover RVF via RooshV, which in turn helped me discover D&P and WSP.

I view things for what they are:

DangerandPlay - Fitness and values (never settle for average)
WallStreetPlayboys- Finance and values (never settle for average)
RVF - Read and interact with like-minded people who mostly share the same values (never settle for average)

What else could I want besides health, money and pussy?

Post: #43

This forum is very different from the 'manosphere'. Many manosphere bloggers hate it (and Roosh) because it doesn't ban minorities and actually helps men out instead of just fighting feminism. Whenever I read a manosphere blog, it feels like reading stormfront. As a matter of fact, I've lurked stormfront and most manosphere blogs sound exactly like that, with more anti-feminism.

The best bloggers and cool guys have distanced themselves from the Manosphere. That is what you need to know about it.

Blogs/ websites I read which I don't believe are part of the manosphere, even though outsiders may conflate the two - RVF, RooshV, RoK (although some articles are bullshit), Danger and Play, Wall Street Playboys, Christan McQueen, Krauser, Matt Forney, Rollo & 3 Bromigos.

Even if some of these guys may be linked on Manosphere.com and may be read by Manosphere bloggers, they are written for winners and not whiners. Anti-feminism is a just cause but it shouldn't be a man's only focus. Racists are men who could only make friends with other losers from their own race.

Call out bullshit when you see it and rise above.

Post: #44

One could always just come up with a new term, like neo-masculinity movement or something, which would still be a catch-all.

What all these sites have in common is that they are unashamedly masculine. There are just many variants of it.