Post: #1

As title.

I've done Starting Strength and Madcow and basically just lift heavy compound full body at the moment with some oly lift thrown in for fun.

I want to focus more on upper body hypertrophy, but have no idea what program to start since there are so many bro-splits and you never know if they are made for guys on juice.

What would you recommend as a good progression to the ones I've done, with more focus on upper body but still doing heavy compounds?

Are there some agreed upon programs like with strength programs?

Post: #2

Just change your rep range to 8-12.
Make sure you do 6 work sets of bench press.
4 sets of all other excersises. Things like chest dips, cable flies, deadlifts, squats.
any sort of split should be fine. I do a five day split; chest and tris, back and bis, legs and abs, shoulders and chest, bis & tris and abs.

you probably have enough knowledge about lifting by now to figure something out

Post: #3

It's probably particular to your body-type and other variant factors, but I had great success with 3-day split (6 times a week) where each day consisted of 5x5 of one compound exercise and 5-6 complementary exercises of 3-4 sets each. So about 25-30 working sets (not incl. warm-up).

So, for bench, I would do as follows on Day 1: 5X 100/102.5/102.5/105/105. Day 2 and Day 3 would come and go, and on Day 4, back to bench, but this time with 5X 102.5/102.5/105/105/107.5. The next time I did bench, it would be 5X 102.5/105/105/107.5/107.5.

the goal was to keep the progression, so if I missed the last rep on the last set, I would still proceed next week as if I had hit 5. With lotsa food, I made good progress in a short time.

Changing to 8-12 reps also sounds like a good idea.

Post: #4

What's your body weight and what's your max (1RM or 3RM) in bench, squat, deadlift and press?

Not trying to make it a pissing contest but your strength level determines how much tension you can create and in turn affects the rep range needed to best stimulate hypotrophy

Post: #5

"Powerbuilding Basics" by Josh Bryant (it is on amazon) I think the title is. In theory it is a cross between bodybuilding and powerlifting so getting bigger using the compound exercises.

Post: #6

I'm trying out this program called Greyskull. Similar to starting strength, but the last set of each exercise is done for as many reps as possible. If you don't make your last set, you deload that lift by 10%. If you do 10 or more, you do that lift plus double the usual incremental increase next time. 5 reps per set otherwise. I'm doing 8 reps per set instead for greater hypertrophy, except on the squats and deads.

Greyskull also does less leg work, more upper body work than SS. Squats or deads each workout, at the end of the main lifts, then assistance exercises of your choosing.

My ass and legs got plenty big from SS style workouts so I'm more concerned with upper body mass, especially arms and shoulders.

Post: #7

(04-13-2014 06:35 AM)berserk Wrote:  As title.

I've done Starting Strength and Madcow and basically just lift heavy compound full body at the moment with some oly lift thrown in for fun.

If you want to build upper body you should throw in some isolation stuff too. As long as you are doing your compounds there is nothing wrong with doing curls and rows etc.

Post: #8

Thanks for the suggestions, I might just try to put together a program of my own based on what you suggested.

Is everyone in agreement that rep ranges of 8-12 is optimal for hypertrophy or is that bro science?

Post: #9

Do a 3-day brosplit and you'll be fine. SS is compound only and personally I think it's not enough.

Day 1: Chest and Triceps
Day 2: Back and Biceps
Day 3: Legs and Shoulders
Rest one day
Repeat

Have a heavy compound on each day. Bench on day one, deadlift on day two and squat on day three.

Post: #10

What exactly is the benefit of a 3 day bro split?

I've been told these mainly work for steroid users because of their ability to train much harder. A week between training bodyparts seems far too long from my own experience? Wouldn't a 2 day bro split be better then either push/pull or upper/lower and train 4 days instead?

I am leaning most towards only squatting once a week since I have big legs already. Then spend that energy saved on some isolation exercises like incline bench on top of bench/ohp and lat raises, dips etc in addition.

Post: #11

(04-14-2014 03:56 AM)berserk Wrote:  What exactly is the benefit of a 3 day bro split?

I've been told these mainly work for steroid users because of their ability to train much harder. A week between training bodyparts seems far too long from my own experience? Wouldn't a 2 day bro split be better then either push/pull or upper/lower and train 4 days instead?

I am leaning most towards only squatting once a week since I have big legs already. Then spend that energy saved on some isolation exercises like incline bench on top of bench/ohp and lat raises, dips etc in addition.

In my experience, 3 day split is optimal for everyone. You can try a two day version of this, ignoring legs like a true bro and moving shoulders (ohp and rear delt fly) on your chest and tris day, but I think you'll overtrain some muscles.

Post: #12

8-12 Reps is a solid range for hypertrophy. If your strength levels are good you can also built some solid mass with some 5x5

Post: #13

I'm doing 5X5 and have seen some awesome gains in strength. I need to build my arms and correct my 'wanker arm' (imbalance between R & L biceps).

I already do 200 situps on 'rest' days in the 5x5 program. Would you guys recommend I throw in 8-12 rep isolation exercises for arms and chest on my 5x5 workout days rather than on the rest days? Often I feel on my rest days that I want to lift but I don't want to overtrain and limit strength gains.

Thanks.

Post: #14

(04-14-2014 05:42 AM)roberto Wrote:  I'm doing 5X5 and have seen some awesome gains in strength. I need to build my arms and correct my 'wanker arm' (imbalance between R & L biceps).

I already do 200 situps on 'rest' days in the 5x5 program. Would you guys recommend I throw in 8-12 rep isolation exercises for arms and chest on my 5x5 workout days rather than on the rest days? Often I feel on my rest days that I want to lift but I don't want to overtrain and limit strength gains.

Thanks.

I wouldn't worry about isolation exercises but if you must you can throw in some light assistance exercises such as dips, BB curls and pull-ups as long as you keep the intensity low.

I feel you about the rest days but it's best to refrain from lifting especially on a program such as 5x5. When I'm restless on my non-lifting days I do something low impact such as swimming or sprinting (hard sprints only when not adjacent to lower body days)

Post: #15

How do you feel about this program:

Monday
Deadlift 3x5, 1x3,1x2
Overhead Press 5x5
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x5
Bicep curls 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

Wednesday
Power Clean 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5, 2x10
Bent over rows 5x5
Dips 5x5
Lat Raises 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

Friday
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5, 1x10
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x5
Bicep curls 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

Post: #16

(04-14-2014 08:13 AM)berserk Wrote:  How do you feel about this program:

Monday
Deadlift 3x5, 1x3,1x2
Overhead Press 5x5
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x5
Bicep curls 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

Wednesday
Power Clean 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5, 2x10
Bent over rows 5x5
Dips 5x5
Lat Raises 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

Friday
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5, 1x10
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x5
Bicep curls 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3

I'm loving the exercise choices but I'd move things around a bit to reduce risk of energy and so you have the most energy when it matters:

Also, how come you not do 5x5 on the deadlift?

Monday
Clean and Press 5x3
Deadlift 3x5, 1x3,1x2
Overhead Press 5x5
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x12-15 (add weight when you get 15 on all of them)
Bicep curls 3x8


Wednesday
Clean and Press 5x3
Power Clean 5x5
Flat Bench 5x5, 2x10
Bent over rows 5x5
Dips 5x5
Lat Raises 3x8

Friday
Squat 5x5
Overhead Press 5x5, 1x10
Pullups 3xmax
Dips 5x12-15 (add weight when you get 15 on all of them)
Bicep curls 3x8
Clean and Press 5x3 (I'd drop this one or keep it light)

Also, if you're doing Pavels 5x5 progression I'd reduce some of the posterior chain work on wednesday and reduce overall volume a bit.

Post: #17

Makes sense, but the reason I put c&p last is to not burn out for the deadlift, squat and bench, since c&p is really taxing, also why I only do 3 reps. I put it last as a bit of cardio with lower weights basically.

For the deadlift, I like to get some high weight going once in a while for fun and to push myself.

I haven't decided on 5x5 structure. I used to do Madcow, but now do a version of 2-2-1 in progressing weight. What do you think about that?

Post: #18

With the low volume on c&p I wouldn't worry about burning out, plus it feeds in well to dead lifting, I usually do either cleans or c&p as a warmup to my deadlifting sets as it gets you in that explosive groove.

I haven't done either of those so I can't really comment but as long as you've got some form of progression going you're fine. I was just curious as to why deadlift was the odd-one-out

Post: #19

Chaos & Pain posted a recent article on a guy who is doing 1 compound lift paired with 3-5 single joint movements. It was an interesting writeup with some good detail and you may get an idea for something that would work for your specific situation.

Post: #20

You can always build your own hypertrophy program. Just make sure that most of your exercises are made up of heavy compound exercises and not isolation. Also if you sit on all your ass day, make sure that you have more pull exercises over push exercises. The basic principles for a successful program are follow strict form and progressive overload. If you follow these principles, then it doesn't matter what type of program you follow, as all will bring results.

And also as mentioned above doing exercises in the 8 to 10 range, will help you go with the sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (getting bigger).

Post: #21

^ So you'd recommend changing 5x5 heavy compounds to 8x5 to get bigger as well as stronger?

Post: #22

(04-14-2014 05:32 PM)roberto Wrote:  ^ So you'd recommend changing 5x5 heavy compounds to 8x5 to get bigger as well as stronger?

I personally do 10x4..well did before I got my ACL injury. I used to do 6(reps)x4(sets) at the beginning and it does get you stronger, however it did not have the same effect on size as when I switched over to 10x4. When I started doing 10 reps per set, I saw much bigger increases in size. However that is just my own experience. Bodies differ and respond differently. Try out different things and see what works for you.

Post: #23

A lot of guys in the fitness community think that hypertrophy rep (8-12) range builds the most amount of muscle. The truth is that any kind of weight training will produce similar hypertrophy results if your nutrition is in check and training volume is optimized.

Here's a recent study that proves my point - http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/24714538/
In short, training with lower reps will produce same amount of hypertrophy and significantly more strength gains.

Personally, I follow Layne Norton's Power/Hypertrophy 5day split, which consists of low rep upper/lower split at the start of the week and hypertrophy range 3day split later in the week. The Volume is high but you get used to it after couple of weeks.
Full program: http://www.simplyshredded.com/mega-featu...-2011.html

If your main lifts numbers are still in novice/intermediate range I would recommend sticking with simple strength programs to milk the most strength and size out of it.

Post: #24

That study seems very inconclusive Simoska. While I won't argue that you can in fact built muscle through lower rep ranges, I think it's premature to knock the 8-12 rep range.

For one, it has stood the test of time, and two, it's not as poorly studied as the article you're linking to makes it out to be.

http://journals.lww.com/nsca-jscr/Abstra...ir.40.aspx - this study by Schoenfeld is one of the most comprehensive reviews to date and part of the conclusion is that hypertrophy is best achieved through a combination of mechanical stress and metabolic stress, which happens in the 65%-85% 1RM range with 1-2 min rest.

I'll add that I believe it's easier to gain muscle through lower rep ranges the stronger you are because you can create more tension with the increased weight, but we're talking pretty good strength numbers then.

Post: #25

Is it ok to train delts 3 times a week if you rotate between rear, front and side?