Post: #101

Roosh's observations mirror my own across the board. While he's spent most of the last two years abroad, I've spent most of them stateside.

We've long complained about the U.S. dating market, but I've seen a major turn for the worst in the last couple of years that is especially alarming. The U.S. (urban) dating market has gotten so abysmal that it requires an ever-increasing amount of fitness, verbal skills, attempts, and error-free game for the average guy to get a decent chick. Guys are having to get shredded, be a stand-up comedian, sing acapella like R. Kelly, do tons of approaches, and still not fuck up to get some semi-friendly 7 who knows how to make Chicken Piccata from scratch. And even then, he's having to collect more numbers to get just that.

Numbers are getting even more worthless (you practically have to bang a girl in the Starbucks bathroom to ensure she doesn't flake), and cute girls are getting inconceivably arrogant and flakey. Already small margins for error are shrinking. These are trends we've noted in the past, but this seems like a natural acceleration of them. I'm not a gloom-and-doom kind of guy, but there are realities that are simply too hard to ignore.

I attribute a lot of this to the inexorable penetration of social media, combined with a deadly cocktail of US-specific accelerants. As I tell a lot of people in real life, two years is an eternity in the dating market. A lot can change, and has, in that time. Even one lamentable trend in the last two--the increased commodification of dudes through online dating--has intensified. We've gone from having to write (or read) a message (OKCupid or POF) to merely swiping left or right by the hundred (Tinder). These trends always affect men more adversely that women, and it's a race to the bottom. Obviously, the usual suspects--like the continuance of the obesity epidemic, the advent of new attention-whoring avenues (Instagram), and phone addiction more generally--are playing their part.

   
I re-tweeted this earlier tonight.

As a result, I--someone who probably has above-average game skill--find myself going through more frequent episodes of game fatigue. I get fed up with bitches and don't feel motivated to approach for days at a time. That either leads to tepid approaches, or fuck-it moments where I don't have the energy (or desire) to talk to a given chick. I still get lays, but I'm having to bust my ass more than before. Even if you try to attribute this to my own unique situation--and you probably can to some extent--you can't deny that realities on the ground are playing a part. For a while, I was attributing this to the effects of a colder winter in parts of North America, but this is seeming like the new normal. From my small sample, it doesn't seem like I'm alone in this general sentiment.

It's really getting to the point that the only way for a regular guy to get one of the remaining gems (and especially date up) is to have access to a closed fishbowl where he can work incremental social-circle game. Day and night games will always "work," but like a shrinking economy, a tightening dating market means lower yields at ballooning prices (time and effort).

The solution a lot of guys will throw out--and have been for a while--is to leave the country, but for those stuck in the U.S., I'd say understanding these realities is a start. I certainly don't think the think-positive-thoughts philosophy expounded by some forum members ("I banged a 19-year-old just the other day, so everything is fine!!!") changes the reality of the situation.

Post: #102

Quote:As a result, I--someone who probably has above-average game skill--find myself going through more frequent episodes of game fatigue.

I know guys who are way above-average with game who feel the same. If they are getting tired, can you imagine the guys with no game?

Classic game as we practiced it in the 00's will provide less rewards as these trends continue. For better or worse, a MGTOW philosophy is the future for "average" men. The US market is so stacked against men that it's becoming the rational option. I sense a huge shift in the near future (5 years) where men become MGTOW without realizing what it is. The Japanese herbivore phenomenon is the closest model to what we will see in the States.

Post: #103

(04-20-2014 08:04 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  We've long complained about the U.S. dating market, but I've seen a major turn for the worst in the last couple of years that is especially alarming. The U.S. (urban) dating market has gotten so abysmal that it requires an ever-increasing amount of fitness, verbal skills, attempts, and error-free game for the average guy to get a decent chick. Guys are having to get shredded, be a stand-up comedian, sing acapella like R. Kelly, do tons of approaches, and still not fuck up to get some semi-friendly 7 who knows how to make Chicken Piccata from scratch. And even then, he's having to collect more numbers to get just that.

I think American culture is starting to become hostile to meeting at a random night venue and having a one night stand. I almost always see people playing with their phones when they're out, and coming and going with the same group. I'm not really seeing random hookups anymore. Everything needs to be pre-approved through some app on their phone.

It also seems like there's less overall sex happening in countries where everyone has a smartphone. Women are tightening up on the available supply of sex, because they cannot be bothered between watching Netflix, texting, playing Candy Crush, etc.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national...-1.1607822

http://www.bbc.com/news/health-25094142

Quote:"But we also think modern technologies are behind the trend too. People have tablets and smartphones and they are taking them into the bedroom, using Twitter and Facebook, answering emails."

Post: #104

^ Yes.

My personal observation in a different thread a few months back was the astonishing amount of time girls and people in general take to text back (2-3 days often times). Even just 3 or 4 years ago 3-4 hours was a long time to text back.

Back then I would have text conversations back and forth often with new girls. I don't think I have had a text exchange where 3+ messages have been exchanged on each side within a 1 or 2 hour span for years. Forget girls answering the phone, that also was much easier a few years ago.

The planning out of text time delays, mixed in with flakes etc... is getting to a point in the U.S. I definitely see my time better spent trying to get into one of those elite fishbowls or gaining some form of local micro-fame based off a talent.

Girls will cut you off for the slightest misstep. A month ago I had a first date bang with a 6 Tinder girl. Great sex, said she liked me on the date. We text back and forth (1 text every 1 or 2 days lol) for a week or so, she semi-flakes, I make fun of her for flaking in text. I'm toast never hear from her again because of a playful joke.

Again, 3 or 4 years ago I have had similar situations and if I banged a girl and she claimed to like me and have a great time I could:

A) Get away with much less tight game after that for awhile
B) The girl would often times text me often seeing how I am and wanting to joke and flirt

That seems completely dead. It is too much work for women to even flirt in text very often let alone take a phone call. It's a cold environment.

Post: #105

It definitely is starting to seem that women are not being bitchy and demanding high levels of game in order to only have sex with the most alpha men, but that they are just blowing off men in general and having less sex overall, in favor of social media dopamine hits. This has been said before but the evidence is starting to stack up.

Post: #106

Here's an examples of the sensitivity I noticed:

I talked to a cute blonde girl with hair that was shoulder-length. I said, "Your hair looks silky, but I wonder how you'd look with long hair."

Her: "I used to have hair down to almost my stomach."

Me: "Wow. Do you have a picture of it?"

Her: "Yes. *loads up iphone* But all my friends say I look better with short hair."

She showed me a couple pictures and there was absolutely no doubt that the long hair was better. I looked back and forth between her and the picture a couple times. Then I took a VERY GENTLE tone...

Me: "And you said all your friends said the short hair is better"

Her: "Yes, all. Everyone."

Me: "Mmhmm. You current hair is nice [a lie], but...... your long hair is quite nice."

Her: "But everyone likes the short hair more."

Me: "Even guys?"

Her: "Yes every guy says the shorter hair is better."

Me: "I would like to be the dissenting opinion. The long hair looked very nice. I think most girls would kill to have that type of hair."

And that was it. She immediately turned away from me. Now understand that my tone and facial expression was polite. There was no way you can construe that I was insulting her, and if anything I was complimenting her photos. But it was still too much for her.

When talking to these girls, you have to hide reality and connect with her based on fantastical assumptions. So not only do you have to be a clown, but the audience you're entertaining is hypersensitive children who are one step away from crying to mom and dad because they didn't like your performance.

Post: #107

^ There was a thread about how much you lie when Gaming.

Here in the U.S. I feel compelled to lie all the time by not really expressing myself 100% and keeping inside their sensitive safe zone.

I feel like I am a contestant in a show that can be easily voted off at any minute. The only twisted upside to this is when gaming you still have the confidence you can succeed, but you are walking through a minefield all the time of possible fuck-ups so when you do have a great success it is a solid validation of your game.

Girls in America have mastered the IDGAF attitude.

Post: #108

What it takes to laid with a cute girl in the US in gif form:

Post: #109

(04-20-2014 08:34 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I know guys who are way above-average with game who feel the same. If they are getting tired, can you imagine the guys with no game?

I didn't mean to imply that I was merely above-average. By any objective standard, my game is somewhere in the top percentiles. I rarely ever meet someone IRL who has, pound-for-pound, better game than me. I clarify not just for ego's sake, but to emphasize that my tolerance for the vicissitudes of the dating market--brutal rejections, dry spells, and fatigue--is similarly high.

And I'm tired.

(04-20-2014 08:34 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  I'm not really seeing random hookups anymore. Everything needs to be pre-approved through some app on their phone.

This is exactly it.

(04-20-2014 08:34 PM)Vitriol Wrote:  It also seems like there's less overall sex happening in countries where everyone has a smartphone. Women are tightening up on the available supply of sex

I've long suspected this. It's disturbing to hear it confirmed, even partially.

(04-20-2014 08:35 PM)Travesty444 Wrote:  My personal observation in a different thread a few months back was the astonishing amount of time girls and people in general take to text back (2-3 days often times). Even just 3 or 4 years ago 3-4 hours was a long time to text back.

The growth in text-response time is definitely happening. I used to have a "two-hour rule," where I'd physically cross out a girl off my list if she didn't respond by then. If didn't reply within a two-hour window, it used to mean--at least statistically--she was definitely never replying.

I've now had to extend that twice, to account for the consistent (though often tepid and flakey) responses well beyond that time limit.

(04-20-2014 08:43 PM)Roosh Wrote:  When talking to these girls, you have to hide reality and connect with her based on fantastical assumptions. So not only do you have to be a clown, but the audience you're entertaining is hypersensitive children who are one step away from crying to mom and dad because they didn't like your performance.

I'm actually shocked at how polite you were about her hair. I would have though you would have said you "read something on the Internet" about how guys lie about liking short hair. I've cited my own articles several times in IRL conversation.

I've noticed that girls are getting more sensitive during night game. In day-game scenarios, their egos seem a little less elevated and will respond to some tactful teasing. At night, they're ready to next you like they're some Kardashian-like character on a reality show telling you "talk to the hand."

Post: #110

Roosh: What about nightlife venues in general? In Boston they've been dying left and right. Even in Manhattan (lower east side) things aren't as happening as they used to be.

Post: #111

(04-20-2014 04:19 PM)Roosh Wrote:  Lastly, the girls are incredibly sensitive. You have to keep your conversation always positive. Nothing you say can be construed as a slight to either her, the city, Americans, women, whatever. You really have to be the entertaining clown that elicits positive feelings and lustful emotions, or else the approach is dead.

Just to reiterate what Vaun said, both men and women are like this where I live.

It seems that America is entering the age of feelings.

There are a lot of people that have to have their feelings preserved at all times. They need to be constantly reassured and told that everything is going to be OK.

I avoid these kinds of men at all costs. Talking to women like this is just a necessary evil.

If anything, the fact that people can survive in America while being so emotionally sensitive is a testament to the fact of just how good and safe urbanized life is overall in American society.

Post: #112

DC sounds rough unless yall are exaggerating. Guess I've been spoiled in Houston. Brosemite what do you think? I only mess with 18-21 year olds so can't really say.

Post: #113

Had a conversation the other day with several well-travelled, international guys who all stated how bad the "flake factor" was getting in the states. All have noticed that it has actually gotten worse just in the last 5 years alone. As stated above, pulling a number doesn't mean shit anymore. The illusion of what appears to be a connection doesn't even mean shit anymore. The younger girls just want a texting buddy. Women in this country are in control and they know it.

The average american princess is brainwashed from watching Sex and the City and looking for the "perfect man." I think it is funny how the cougar phenomenon has swept the states. This is merely because women have had high bitch shields, unrealistic standards, and have failed to grasp the concept of reality. Then they wake up at 40 years of age alone, biological clock (for kids) expired, and desperate for a man who will show interest. I find their desperation comical. Although, I will admit I am willing to take advantage from time to time....okay most of the time.

I don't just miss how beautiful the girls are in Eastern Europe but also their no B.S. approach to life. I miss cool, intelligent girls who want to enjoy life without the games. Bottom line: I like the business opportunities that the U.S. offers but other than that I wish I was still in Europe.

Post: #114

(04-20-2014 09:42 PM)Screwston Wrote:  DC sounds rough unless yall are exaggerating. Guess I've been spoiled in Houston. Brosemite what do you think? I only mess with 18-21 year olds so can't really say.

Ya know..I don't really go out too much anymore. Busy with work full-time and night classes. Dealing with hangovers as one gets older & with more responsibilities = no bueno.

I gotta say bitch shields in the area have gone down in the last 4 years in this transitioning economy as being low key is becoming semi "cooler." More bitch shields back in day but I remember phone numbers from confident nice guy game actually leading to dates, etc from a bar setting. Chicks tend to be more outgoining these days but unless you get the hamster spinning with more aggressive touching, etc....phone numbers alone won't lead anywhere now after the primary cold approach.

IMO, lot of chicks still want to hook up with just normal guys that "get it." Little more prominent in say Dallas or certain suburbs. Ft. Worth side...I want to say not so much.

Post: #115

Re the 'sensitivity' thing I can only imagine how bad it is in the US now. Every time I talk to my mom or sister I feel like I'm walking on eggshells so as to not offend them. Actually got into a bit of an argument while my mom was driving me to the airport today about how I need to "get serious and date a real American woman' and forget about these foreigners.

She also added that all the Russian girls I dated were just 'gold diggers' and 'I really need to date someone my own age now.' When I said that basically means 40-year old divorcees with kids she emphatically asked 'what's wrong with that?' etc. I sort of explained why it's so bad for me (divorce rape, women should not be having kids that late in life generally, etc) but then just basically gave up - the Force hamster is just too strong in her. And if you ask her she's still a more 'traditional' sort of woman..yeah, right.

One day back in DC and already it's like some sort of bizzaro world versus what I am my friends were doing in Russia for the past few years. It's too soon to tell and I'm at the beach now for a few days but sure will be interesting to see what I observe once I'm back on the ground for a few days. And btw when I landed this evening I had 3 of my old Russian girls sms me with "Happy Easter" wishes too!

Post: #116

(04-20-2014 08:04 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  It's really getting to the point that the only way for a regular guy to get one of the remaining gems (and especially date up) is to have access to a closed fishbowl where he can work incremental social-circle game. Day and night games will always "work," but like a shrinking economy, a tightening dating market means lower yields at ballooning prices (time and effort).

The solution a lot of guys will throw out--and have been for a while--is to leave the country, but for those stuck in the U.S., I'd say understanding these realities is a start. I certainly don't think the think-positive-thoughts philosophy expounded by some forum members ("I banged a 19-year-old just the other day, so everything is fine!!!") changes the reality of the situation.

Tuth, these are all great points you made and I've observed a dramatic worsening of the market as well. One thing you didn't mention is the ratio factor which is at its worst on the west coast where you are.

http://jonathansoma.com/singles/#1/4/2/0

There are SO many more men than women between the ages of 18-35. In some places like San Jose and San Diego is ridiculously more. When ratios are that bad, women can behave the way they do and get away with it. Compound this with the fact that the average woman considers 80% of men unattractive(OKCupid's blog did a whole study on this). Whereas men's attracted-ness toward women follows a normal distribution. That amounts to average women being turned off by average men and only being highly responsive to top tier guys. Multiple guys have done experiments using Tinder with guys of various attractiveness levels. A male 9 might get 400 responses in 24hrs. A male 6 may get 15. And any guy below that gets basically nothing. Whereas a female 6 will still get hundreds, even if the hottie 9 is getting 1000. But all the females will have options to play with regardless of their attractiveness level.

So the result of this is a feedback loop. You have more guys, more guys going without, they get thirstier and thirstier, start hitting more girls up online, more start learning game and trying to approach more in the field, girls see their value as going up as all these men are pursuing them. Their bitch shields rise, they raise their standards for the kind of guy they open their legs for, more men that are below 7 start having dry spells making them even more thirsty and the cycle feeds off itself. You now have groups of girls out at night that seem to have no interest in meeting or talking to men they don't already know, all of them with their faces staring at an iPhone. A few weeks back I was out with Giovanny and Lothario and I was talking to this 8 when Lothario came over. She was cool, but right in the middle of our conversation, she pulled out her iPhone and had to check some game. I don't even know what it was, but she said if she doesn't check it routinely she loses or something. I don't know what the fuck, I don't mess with video games. Can't even imagine a guy doing some shit like that.

Post: #117

(04-20-2014 08:04 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  As a result, I--someone who probably has above-average game skill--find myself going through more frequent episodes of game fatigue. I get fed up with bitches and don't feel motivated to approach for days at a time. That either leads to tepid approaches, or fuck-it moments where I don't have the energy (or desire) to talk to a given chick. I still get lays, but I'm having to bust my ass more than before. Even if you try to attribute this to my own unique situation--and you probably can to some extent--you can't deny that realities on the ground are playing a part. For a while, I was attributing this to the effects of a colder winter in parts of North America, but this is seeming like the new normal. From my small sample, it doesn't seem like I'm alone in this general sentiment.

This is me lately, after starting off the year strong, work fatigue, getting sick, and experiencing dozens of flakes this year via Tinder, I took a break. So much so to dial up an ex. Last year was a revelation for me, finding day game, approaching over 100x and experiencing the thrill and truly enjoying the ride. Since it got cold, I gave up the day game totally. Now I am getting back to it, and look forward to revitalizing that same thrill again.

Post: #118

(04-20-2014 08:04 PM)Tuthmosis Wrote:  Roosh's observations mirror my own across the board. While he's spent most of the last two years abroad, I've spent most of them stateside.

We've long complained about the U.S. dating market, but I've seen a major turn for the worst in the last couple of years that is especially alarming. The U.S. (urban) dating market has gotten so abysmal that it requires an ever-increasing amount of fitness, verbal skills, attempts, and error-free game for the average guy to get a decent chick. Guys are having to get shredded, be a stand-up comedian, sing acapella like R. Kelly, do tons of approaches, and still not fuck up to get some semi-friendly 7 who knows how to make Chicken Piccata from scratch. And even then, he's having to collect more numbers to get just that.

Numbers are getting even more worthless (you practically have to bang a girl in the Starbucks bathroom to ensure she doesn't flake), and cute girls are getting inconceivably arrogant and flakey. Already small margins for error are shrinking. These are trends we've noted in the past, but this seems like a natural acceleration of them. I'm not a gloom-and-doom kind of guy, but there are realities that are simply too hard to ignore.

I attribute a lot of this to the inexorable penetration of social media, combined with a deadly cocktail of US-specific accelerants. As I tell a lot of people in real life, two years is an eternity in the dating market. A lot can change, and has, in that time. Even one lamentable trend in the last two--the increased commodification of dudes through online dating--has intensified. We've gone from having to write (or read) a message (OKCupid or POF) to merely swiping left or right by the hundred (Tinder). These trends always affect men more adversely that women, and it's a race to the bottom. Obviously, the usual suspects--like the continuance of the obesity epidemic, the advent of new attention-whoring avenues (Instagram), and phone addiction more generally--are playing their part.


I re-tweeted this earlier tonight.

As a result, I--someone who probably has above-average game skill--find myself going through more frequent episodes of game fatigue. I get fed up with bitches and don't feel motivated to approach for days at a time. That either leads to tepid approaches, or fuck-it moments where I don't have the energy (or desire) to talk to a given chick. I still get lays, but I'm having to bust my ass more than before. Even if you try to attribute this to my own unique situation--and you probably can to some extent--you can't deny that realities on the ground are playing a part. For a while, I was attributing this to the effects of a colder winter in parts of North America, but this is seeming like the new normal. From my small sample, it doesn't seem like I'm alone in this general sentiment.

It's really getting to the point that the only way for a regular guy to get one of the remaining gems (and especially date up) is to have access to a closed fishbowl where he can work incremental social-circle game. Day and night games will always "work," but like a shrinking economy, a tightening dating market means lower yields at ballooning prices (time and effort).

The solution a lot of guys will throw out--and have been for a while--is to leave the country, but for those stuck in the U.S., I'd say understanding these realities is a start. I certainly don't think the think-positive-thoughts philosophy expounded by some forum members ("I banged a 19-year-old just the other day, so everything is fine!!!") changes the reality of the situation.

Nailed it Tuth. Recently, I was hanging out with a forum member and we were opening chicks in bars. We both kept on getting instantly rejected. I only realized how abnormal that was when he asked me whether I usually got instantly rejected as well. Recently, some girls in my University called the cops on a pair of guys that tried to daygame them.

I'm no game veteran, but I'm definitely in a quandry here. I'm forced to be a fucking clown just to get attention. I'm going to try and work that into some bangs, but shit, its hard.

Like I mentioned in another thread, get jacked and optimize your style. The number of chicks who will want to bang you will increase exponentially. Haven't tried game in other countries, I find it hard to believe that looks don't play nearly as much of a role there.

Post: #119

I figure it will soon become impossible to do a cold pickup without offending a girl. I don't know how pickups can take place on such sensitive women. I'm offending women without trying. My game is essentially DOA on American girls because my stock topics are dangerous. I would have to "re-invent" my entire game from scratch if I stayed here.

(04-20-2014 09:13 PM)Samseau Wrote:  Roosh: What about nightlife venues in general? In Boston they've been dying left and right. Even in Manhattan (lower east side) things aren't as happening as they used to be.

The scene is growing in DC. Lots of crowded spots, but the girls are so into their groups, and also I'm seeing a lot of huge mixed-set groups. There are very few pairs of girls out, and if they are, it tends to be older women well past their prime. All girls seem to have their male friends with them (i.e. orbiters).

Post: #120

Brosemite Im gonna cry when I actually look older and cant get away with saying I'm 19 lol. I think that's why I always say I'm spoiled down here. I don't go out to bars to hunt and rarely go after girls older than 21. If I do, its MILFs but they're completely different. 22-30 is a horrible age bracket.

Post: #121

(04-20-2014 10:26 PM)Roosh Wrote:  I figure it will soon become impossible to do a cold pickup without offending a girl. I don't know how pickups can take place on such sensitive women. I'm offending women without trying. My game is essentially DOA on American girls because my stock topics are dangerous. I would have to "re-invent" my entire game from scratch if I stayed here.

Speaking of which..there's this "contact" on my FB that posted an article. Showed up on my minifeed - http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2014/03/so...an-excuse/

She was a women's study major in Canada, but her family was originally from the most well-known Brazilian city. Let's say her peers in the motherland are being influenced by her tactics.

(04-20-2014 10:26 PM)Roosh Wrote:  The scene is growing in DC. Lots of crowded spots, but the girls are so into their groups, and also I'm seeing a lot of huge mixed-set groups. There are very few pairs of girls out, and if they are, it tends to be older women well past their prime. All girls seem to have their male friends with them (i.e. orbiters).

Bolded items sound like the transplant scene in Dallas these days....thing is..these same transplant dudes could kill it with their out of town status and changes in their game if going out solo...yet most revolve their social lives around orbiting with their mixed set co-workers.

Post: #122

Reading this thread just confirms what I've already known in my bones for so many years: the downward trajectory of American women makes any great expenditure of effort on their behalf a waste of time. Every time you try to deviate from this, you end up regretting it.

Sport fuck American women if it's convenient for you, but you're not going to get the type of satisfying experience that you're going to get with a foreign woman.

The inescapable commandments now are:

1. Learn a language.
2. Make frequent trips abroad or move abroad.
3. Prong foreign women for your own sanity.

Game is changing radically before our eyes. Or, classical game is dying. Game in America is now basically about looking the part that's been pre-selected BY HER, and just showing up and not fucking up.

The cold approach in America is dying. It may have some utility as a confidence builder, and as a way to overcome social anxieties, but to expect to get a lot of pussy from it in America is setting yourself up for disappointment.

But that's not true abroad. Day game still works in Japan and Brazil, thank God.

Post: #123

I've was in a large, warm-weather, 'up and coming' American city a couple of weeks ago. Here are some quick observations and thoughts myself and my wingman shared while spending a weekend together there:

-We saw many co-ed bachelor/bachelorette parties this weekend.

-Many people go out drinking in large groups during the day.

-It was less crowded that we thought it would be at night.

-People, both male and female, struggle with the intricacies of conversation and connection.

-People in their 20's seem to be chronically under-employed, or disappointed in their 'career'.

-People seem to be faking having fun.

-Attention spans are microscopic and memory is amnesic.

-Few men put a genuine attempt to meet and attract women.

-Being gay dictates you are the celebrity of your social group.

-People who seemed happiest were overweight couples.

I'll leave you guys to draw conclusions about anything you see here.

Post: #124

I consider myself pretty new to game and I have to say I'd be lying if I said the content herein isn't disturbing, but also somewhat depressing.

However, is it surprising? Definitely not.

Post: #125

Glad Texas is still fine......for now......
Guys don't approach here so it'll be preserved for the next 4 years.....hopefully. I've even been complimented on a wearing a nice tie and approached by woman. I just hope it doesn't sink as far as everyone else says everywhere else has sank. I just want to get out fast if what is said here spreads South.