Post: #1

EDIT; It looks like I am preaching this, which I am not intending to do at all.

Initially I thought about putting this in ‘Everything Else’ but I consider it something worthwhile to lifestyle and that plenty of guys on here are traveling in areas of the world or they are planning to where this issue is very real.

I am talking about fires in nightclubs.

Notable fires; Station fire, Kiss Nightclub Brazil, Perm (Russia).

All of these had high casualty rates with in excess of 100 dying. You would think that these people were either incapacitated from drink, drugs or were incinerated from the fire.

Apparently what causes the most deaths is smoke, lack of oxygen and crushing.

Smoke

When you’re in a nightclub the things you don’t see can be the most worrying things. Sound proofing which is not rated to resist fire can catch alight from small sparks in an instant.

This stuff when burned gives of toxic smoke, one of which is cyanide. Coupled with the high concentrations of carbon dioxide/monoxide and a lack of oxygen in the air, you’re going to be lights out in under a minute or depending upon circumstances, knocked out almost immediately from inhaling burning air.

Your lungs and throat are basically burned from the inside and you will most likely go into shock.

Some data regarding some of the noxious gases present in fires;

Carbon Monoxide (ppm)

- 400 Nausea after 1-2 hours
- 1000 Difficulty in movement. Death after 2 hours
- 2000 Death after 45 minutes
- 3000 Death after 30 minutes
- 4000 Rapid collapse, unconsciousness and death within minutes


Oxygen vitiation %

- 21 Normal concentration of air
- 10-12 Nausea and vomiting, exertion impossible, paralysis in motion
- 6-8 Collapse and unconsciousness
- 6 or below Death in 6-8 minutes
- 2-3 Death within 45 seconds



Hydrogen cyanide (ppm)– Materials which contain nitrogen. Polymeric materials such as wool, polyurethane foam, polyacrylonitrille

45-54 Tolerate for ½ hou110-135 Death after ½ hour
45-55 181 Death after 10 minutes
45-56 280 Immediate death


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Now you’re wondering why people don’t immediately leave? Why do they get caught up in the mad dash to get away from the fire?

Unless the fire is an instant event from a bomb, which this post is not about, people ignore it and are quite fascinated with it. Think of all the times you have interacted with fire.

- BBQs
- Fire place in home
- Wood burner
- Open camp fire
- Bonfire

Think of a nightclub like an oven and you’re the chicken inside. The heat needs to get going, it needs fuel to keep going. The people observing the fire don’t even realise the fire is spreading as evidenced in Stardust Disco, Perm, Station Inn and Kiss nightclub.

Security tries and fails to put these fires out and by the time everybody realises the fire is already above them and the smoke is descending on them which burns their lungs, reduces visibility and starts to choke them.

What do you guys do then? You attempt to get out and that’s what everyone else is doing. You’re now trapped in a box which has just gone from 25-30 degrees Celsius to 100+ in seconds and is still climbing AND you’re nowhere near the exit you want to be at.

Whilst these nightclub fires showed up a lot of legal failings and over crowding, there are hundreds out there in South America, Eastern Europe and Asia, hell even the western world where your safety wont be guaranteed as a result of poor staff training, poor fire safety equipment and flammable materials.

Go to any club in your local city or town and look up, how much material is hanging off the ceilings and walls? All of those things are fuel for fire and will go up faster than you think.

Station fire: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xY59mR44TLs

Stardust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLKVFC27-0

Once a fire is reaching ceiling level and you’re still watching it, you’ve already cut your chances of survival by half.

Further to places outside of the western world. Perm in Russia had a lot of victims pulled out and just placed on the freezing snow, these people had injuries and died as a result, alone and thinking god knows what.

I dont want to be put on the freezing ground and nobody giving a fuck. The video of the club is on youtube and some absolute smoke show women were just "plonked" on the snow to die.

The Brazil fire was meant to change things but like in Russia, bribes are easily paid to officials to keep it running. Nightclub owners don’t really give a damn about you as along as things run smoothly.

I’m not saying you should avoid nightclubs, hell I’ve been in a lot of questionable places and still go but if you see a fire in one of these clubs, get the fuck out ASAP.

Check for exits other than the main entrance, this is one thing you can increase your chances. Most people leave via the entrance they came in and will actually ignore other exit points, this is a proven fact.

If you want to look up more you can google "Human behaviour in fires".

Post: #2

Holy shit. I never thought about the fire risks of nightclubs.

Scary stuff.

I don't go clubbing anymore. But for you younger cats - stay safe.

Post: #3

Wow I just watched a clip of the Station club fire in Rhode Island, harrowing stuff. I won't link it on here but it's on youtube.

Post: #4

I would always get the heebie jeebies when some sort of 'lighters up' song would come on in a club I was in...drunk people and girls with long hair and hairspray and multiple sources of ignition.

Post: #5

If clubs have, which should at least he a modern fire code, outward swinging doors with at least one or two emergency exits (that hopefully aren't chained shut) this shouldn't be an issue. If you have inward swinging doors and people pile up against them you can't get people to move back far enough to open them up.

Bu you're absolutely right. Smoke overtakes people far quicker than they think and once you start breathing in heated or superheated air you're probably fucked.

And any modern material is most likely petroleum based. So guess what happens when a petroleum based product meets fire; it burns faster and hotter than traditional natural materials.

Am I the only person that eyes up alternate means of egress when going into a club to poach women?

Post: #6

I dont know the result of the litigation from the station fire, but from watching it again, whoever approved, set up and ignited those pyro's should all be in prison. Just watch it, three full on massive blow torches shooting into the ceiling of the place from no more than 4 ft away. What group of idiots thought that was ok?

edit - the bands tour manager and club owners served around 4 years in the joint for this. And I am scratching my head at this.. Property crimes for seemingly meaningless burglaries net young men similar if not longer sentences. Such a mess.

Post: #7

Having been around a structure fire, I understand now why the smoke is so deadly. When I inhaled some of the smoke, it felt like inhaling hot, molten plastic. Really nasty, toxic stuff. A guy who came out of that particular fire was in intensive care in a coma in the hospital for a couple of weeks, just for smoke inhalation.

When you are in a nightclub, you really should walk around first and note where the exits are. In the Station fire, there was a back entrance that many in the crowd could have used to escape, but they didn't know about it. Instead, they all rushed to the front entrance and jammed it up solid with their bodies.

Post: #8

Note your exits whenever you go into any building, including clubs.

I've made a habit of doing that for years, but thankfully have never experienced a club fire.

If it's going to happen, it's going to happen, just like a plane wreck, but these are good tips.

Post: #9

When I was traveling across Taiwan I got to the city of Taichung and virtually all clubs were closed because a nightclub fire killed 9 people the week before I arrived.

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/taiwan/local...htclub.htm

Post: #10

(04-06-2014 06:22 PM)Doctor Wrote:  Bu you're absolutely right. Smoke overtakes people far quicker than they think and once you start breathing in heated or superheated air you're probably fucked.

And any modern material is most likely petroleum based. So guess what happens when a petroleum based product meets fire; it burns faster and hotter than traditional natural materials.

Am I the only person that eyes up alternate means of egress when going into a club to poach women?

One of the first things they teach you in fire school is to know your egress points when you're fighting fire, in case SHTF. And if you can't find them, know how to make some.

You're absolutely right about the breathing in superheated air part, that shit can kill in a minute.

(04-06-2014 08:18 PM)Carlos100 Wrote:  Having been around a structure fire, I understand now why the smoke is so deadly. When I inhaled some of the smoke, it felt like inhaling hot, molten plastic. Really nasty, toxic stuff. A guy who came out of that particular fire was in intensive care in a coma in the hospital for a couple of weeks, just for smoke inhalation.

When you are in a nightclub, you really should walk around first and note where the exits are. In the Station fire, there was a back entrance that many in the crowd could have used to escape, but they didn't know about it. Instead, they all rushed to the front entrance and jammed it up solid with their bodies.

It felt like inhaling hot molten plastic because you WERE inhaling hot, molten plastic. Smoke is literally unburned, heated particles of whatever material is burning.

Post: #11

They've done computer-animated reconstructions of how the people in the Station fire attempted to exit the club from the time the fire started 'til people were trampling over each other like cattle. One thing I noticed is that none of the dots (representing people) moved to smash and exit out any of the windows until the fire was at full blaze.

This is something I will always have in mind now: If I see a fire and the exits are already lining up with people, I will smash out the nearest window and go. Better safe than sorry.

Post: #12

Quote:The Santika Club fire occurred on Thursday 1 January 2009, in the Santika Club nightclub in Watthana, Bangkok, Thailand, where New Year celebrations were taking place. A total of 66 people were killed and another 222 injured when fire swept through the nightclub during the New Year's celebration as a band coincidentally called Burn was playing.The fire broke out at 12:35 a.m. and citizens of thirteen countries were among the injured.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santika_Club_fire


































This is what it finally looked like with bodies lined up.

Post: #13

Holy Shit!

Post: #14

(04-07-2014 12:24 AM)Eirykr Wrote:  They've done computer-animated reconstructions of how the people in the Station fire attempted to exit the club from the time the fire started 'til people were trampling over each other like cattle. One thing I noticed is that none of the dots (representing people) moved to smash and exit out any of the windows until the fire was at full blaze.

This is something I will always have in mind now: If I see a fire and the exits are already lining up with people, I will smash out the nearest window and go. Better safe than sorry.

Yes I have a link to it, the overall results were just 15 seconds ahead of the real thing.

The thing is, its not just nightclubs. Hotels have these problems too because you will be asleep and may not be the best for wear and all of a sudden you have a screaming "WHOO WHOO WHOO" in your ear.

I have never been in a fire thankfully but I have been within 100ft of a large bonfire and that thing burns, now imagine a roof over it and you're under that same roof.

In the UK outward opening fire doors are required by legislation but other countries such as SA, Eastern Europe and Asia dont have strict legislation which is enforced.

Post: #15

People are sheep.

Always know your exits (especially windows).

Post: #16

wow thank you for this

Post: #17

Here is the animated video of the crowd movement during The Station fire.

The scene at 1:11 on the last video you posted of the Santika fire is horrifying.

Post: #18

reminds me.

Post: #19

(04-07-2014 01:24 PM)frenchie Wrote:  People are sheep.

Always know your exits (especially windows).

In the fire at Santika in Bangkok the owners had locked the exit doors for "security" reasons and had bars on all the windows so no one could escape.

Doesn't matter if you know all the exits if you can't use any of them.

Post: #20

(04-07-2014 06:51 AM)cardguy Wrote:  Holy Shit!

This... Man that video in Thailand...