Post: #1

Here's the situation:

There's this girl who works for a startup that I'm friends with. The girl is incredible. She is hard working, focused, committed to improving her craft, and takes initiative within the framework that she is provided.

She's making decent money for a girl her age working for some friends of mine. The startup itself suffers from poor leadership and has serious cashflow issues. I've done more than any busy person should to try to help these guys but the bottom line is they're scared of making money.

The girl in question is aware of everything that is going on, she's aware that the company isn't on such solid financial footing. She was drawn in more because the startup has a compelling vision behind it. She's starting to recognize that the leadership is not entirely capable of carrying out that vision.

I really want to poach this girl from these guys because they've already trained her to do exactly what I need for a project I'm going to start. She is quite fond of me and has a lot of faith in my leadership capabilities. If I presented an opportunity for her I'm pretty sure I could convince her to jump ship.

There are some issues here though:
1. I'm pretty close with these guys. They might not be the strongest businessmen but they are friends. If I poach their employee I'll have soured the relationship.
2. Do I really want a girl to work for me who was willing to dump her previous employer for a better offer?

I'm not sure if this belongs in the game category because it almost seems like we're talking about stealing a guy's girlfriend. Its like we're talking about whether I should bang my friend's girlfriend.

The skills she have I can find in other people, but I might need 2 of them to get 1 of her. It would take time to try to find another employee, but it would take time and social capital to get this girl on board.

As I was writing this I remembered that one of the guys cockblocked me once. He wasn't even interested in the girl, he just wanted to cockblock me because I was using game (albeit bad game, I was palm reading the girl at a bar). That was pretty fucked up. The other guy who works in this startup is an upstanding character.

Is it a scarcity mindset to try to poach this girl? Does the bro code extend to employees?

Post: #2

Business is just as aggressive as private relationships. Are you in competition in the same industry? Same area? Are you setting up shop elsewhere?

I doubt you will be able to direct the burden on her by saying "oh, its her choice" and thereby keep your footing with the guys. Double standards. Expect any move she makes to be your fault, regardless. Assume the bridge to be burned...

Post: #3

Money over people. You said it yourself, these guys are afraid to make money. If this girl is really the best option for you, take her. Then read the 48 Laws of Power if you haven't already. There will be plenty of opportunities for you to make friends and enemies, but maybe only a small window of opportunity to grow your business.

Post: #4

Ask yourself if you will regret losing the friendship of the upstanding character guy. If you don't care - do what you wish.

Post: #5

How long does this startup have left? A couple months? A year or two? If it's on its last leg, maybe wait for it to crumble and pick up the pieces.

Otherwise how are these guys value added (now or in the future should the startup turn around) to you besides one of them being of upstanding character?

Post: #6

I personally wouldn't do it. Like you said, she is replaceable even if it will take two of hers. She's not essential. Non-essential employees are not worth putting friendships or reputations at risk. Another one of the 48 Laws is "Protect Your Reputation at All Costs". What do you think the message you're sending when you start poaching lower level employees from your friends?

My guess if you hire her is that eventually she'll find another offer later down line that is an even better than yours. She will steal information from you (since you had no problem stealing from your friends) and cost you more in the long run. We've had to deal with this many times at work with employees (especially female ones) jumping ship, taking trade secrets and causing trouble. These aggressive, type-A career women are notorious for this.

Post: #7

(03-31-2014 07:24 PM)Safado Wrote:  Is it a scarcity mindset to try to poach this girl?

Yeah.

Post: #8

Or you could have her do this:

Post: #9

Sounds like a serious case of oneitis to me.

Post: #10

Not sure if you watch the profit show. I like how he says character is the number one thing in business. If you wana say biz is biz i respect that but if they complain to others in your industry it could hurt you. Id never do business with someome if one of the few things i nlknow about them is they fucked over their friend. I have no issies with poaching from a stranger but friend off limits for me

Post: #11

I appreciate everyone's feedback. This isn't the kind of question that I can really ask anybody I know and I wanted to get a perspective on the game comparison as well.

Going forward I'm not going to go out of my way to recruit this girl. I'll keep doing what I'm doing and I'm sure I'll meet other qualified people who can fill in the role I'm looking for. I'm willing to play this slow, and I don't imagine that she'll be working for these guys in a year, so I'll proposition her then.

Post: #12

I guess it depends on if this is a friend or just a colleague or acquantance. I think overall though if your buddies run their business as poorly as you say and if yours is more organized better and making money i bet you either they go under or she cones to you on her own. You get her wuthout having to make a ethically questionable move

Post: #13

NFW.

Stay away. Bad karma.

On the work front, she may have you convinced she is worth two employees, but in reality her acting skills and your imagination have you convinced of this. At best she is worth one good employee. Besides, two shitty employees never equal one good one, so you have to hold out for a good one anyway.

And not trying to sound sexist, but I've never seen a female compare to a hardcore male that could give a shit about work life balance.

Post: #14

To poach is a big no-no.

To tell her "if you ever decide to find a new job, I think I can squeeze you in somewhere into my organization..." is about as firm as I would personally go.

Def. don't commit to hiring her before she leaves her original job AND when she quits, give it good month prior to official hiring.

Post: #15

(04-01-2014 08:35 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  Sounds like a serious case of oneitis to me.

And BOOM! goes the dynamite. Great inside that nails what is really going on.

This is some white knighting wrapped up in a bunch of bullshit.

Post: #16

I would never poach an employee from a friend, but I've done the work and have great friendships.

If someone poached one of my employees, the friendship would be over.

People who say, "Money over friends," in my experience don't have either.

Putting aside the sentimentality of friendships (a factor not to be overlooked as good friends are part of the good life): In the long run, good friendships will earn you far more money than any employee.

Post: #17

Yeah I was gonna post oneitis as well.

Think about the bigger picture here.

You said stuff is already going downhill for the worst at the other company.

Well if you keep good relationships with your friend, and this chick, there's a potential she'll wanna join you anyway if the company falls apart.

Then you'd get her regardless, she'd be even more grateful, you'd be in a power position to pay her less, and you keep your friendship.

If you're on a successful path already you don't need her (abundance) but if it falls into your lap, then you'd have that option.

Post: #18

"Friends are easier to come by than a dollar"

CEO

Post: #19

Don´t do it. You think you´re the only one who can steal a employee?

She is playing you. There´s no such thing as irreplaceable employees.

Not long ago a "friend" stoled me a client. After a while I stoled him a client which paid me 20x in comparison with the one he took. And I´m not done yet.
His clients I could have taken them a long back. Never did it because of friendship and loyalty.

Don´t use your friendship to collect information to hurt your friends. So while your having a beer with your friend your collecting information to screw him? For me this is unacceptable.

People that do this kind of mooves are loosers. Win by your own merit.

What you can´t put a add in a recruitment site?

In the long run you will loose more than you gain.

Post: #20

(04-06-2014 06:36 AM)Pepini Wrote:  Don´t do it. You think you´re the only one who can steal a employee?

She is playing you. There´s no such thing as irreplaceable employees.

Not long ago a "friend" stoled me a client. After a while I stoled him a client which paid me 20x in comparison with the one he took. And I´m not done yet.
His clients I could have taken them a long back. Never did it because of friendship and loyalty.

Don´t use your friendship to collect information to hurt your friends. So while your having a beer with your friend your collecting information to screw him? For me this is unacceptable.

People that do this kind of mooves are loosers. Win by your own merit.

What you can´t put a add in a recruitment site?

In the long run you will loose more than you gain.

I agree, bros before hos. I would post openly, if she applies and is still employed by your buddies let them know. It may be a good time for them to realize that things are fucked up over at their place if people are looking to leave.