Post: #26

Goal for the Day: Burn through a memrise course. We'll see how my laptop battery holds out.

Post: #27

(04-07-2014 06:39 AM)masterblack Wrote:  I am also learning Mandarin. Currently using BBC website, but if you have any other resources that would help me, I would be very grateful.

PS That "Its a trap" meme kills me every time

Not sure if you already saw it but I posted a link to a free online Mandarin course up above in this thread.

Post: #28

(04-07-2014 07:06 AM)Moma Wrote:  I'd like to be in, I want to tighten my French but Spanish is more important where I'm at. I need a language partner to speak with regarding French and/or Spanish, maybe via skype..are you guys on that?

I don't know which are the best ones but there is stuff like this (The Mixxer):

http://www.language-exchanges.org/

Post: #29

I am learning Polish at the moment. I also need to get back to learning Dutch.

I am fluent in both French and Spanish (although my French is better), but need to start focusing on improving my grammar, especially things like the subjunctive. My goal is to get to C2 in both (at C1 in French now and B2 in Spanish). Should also start improving my Russian writing skills (spoken Russian is C1, but written is horrible).

Post: #30

Duolinguo Spanish now has a flirting section.


I'm not saying, I'm just saying...

Post: #31

Hey, awesome thread! I already speak 2 languages, English and some Asian language I won't specify.

I would ideally like to be minimally conversationally fluent in Spanish and Mandarin. This summer I'll have that be my goal. I'm sure in 90 days I could manage that in both of those languages, maybe? An hour a day per language. I would also love to learn French, Italian, or German. But those are pipe dreams.

Edit: Will be using Pimsleur, Rosetta Stone, and any other resources I can find.

Post: #32

Got a chick who agreed to start learning Mandarin together once a week. The plan is to have her record passages in English, combine them with the Mandarin audio and create audio notes each week. These notes will be uploaded to youtube for you guys to use. I have the Pirate Bay Mandarin Language Learning pack, and the FSI audio. Each morning I've set aside an hour for study. The remaining vital task is to find a female native speaker do take care of my translations. I can think of two places to find these broads - college mandarin courses (they take these for the easy A), and Chinese restaurants.

My 90 day goal is to know enough Mandarin to hunt down a couple of FOB sugar mommas.

Post: #33

I haven't even started on learning espanol yet.... Just call me Buzz Killington

Post: #34

For anyone that speaks French, the Assimil courses are also pretty decent. Some of them are English-based, however for most languages they only have French-based courses.

Post: #35

I've posted on this before regarding free resources (multiple languages, but I'm learning Spanish)...
/thread-16196-...#pid672765

The last couple weeks I've been slipping, but wanna get back on it.

Post: #36

And there's an active thread on French going now too:

/thread-35019.html

Post: #37

So I have been walking every morning for thirty minutes while listening to my Spanish Pimsleur for the last week. Why the f*ck haven't I been doing this the last 2 years I been talking about learning Spanish!! I'm picking it up really easy... If I would have started and stuck with this in the past I would be conversational at least. If someone on here wants to learn a language start today!!!! A year from now you'll wish you would have started today.

There were some studies that showed people learned and retained more knowledge when they were walking as opposed to sitting down. I may have read about it on this forum somewhere. I think its helping me walking while learning Spanish, it might be worth looking into.

Start learning the language you're thinking about learning TODAY!

Post: #38

Anyone tried NULU for learning Spanish? I just heard a good recommendation for it on the pickup podcast.

Sounds like something you could mostly do on your own, but this would facilitate it. I'm thinking of doing the free trial offer.

Post: #39

I've been study Spanish now for 7+ years, however never very seriously. I know enough to do my job, and to game some girls who are already interested in my looks and style. but after spending 6 days in Colombia, I want to become fluent. I'm going to dedicate the rest of the year to busting my ass learning more and more.

I have pimsleur, and another computer based program similar to Rosetta Stone, also will be using memrise, duo lingo, talking with my mexican harem girls in Spanish rather then English, watch more Spanish TV at work, read children books and progress to harder books, download and watch some of my favorite movies in Spanish, listen and translate and try to memorize as many shakira songs as possible, and use other various materials available online for free or paid if need be.

Post: #40

I'm currently being reminded that I find learning a new language fucking boring.
Aside from my native Danish I'm fluent in English (started learning it in school in 5th grade - I think the kids start a few years earlier these days - and at least 90% of my reading, writing and work the last 12+ years has been in English) and struggled a ton with German in school compared to English, and can barely string two sentences together in it anymore since it's not a language I'm ever really exposed to (still understand a fair bit, so a refresher course could probably quickly make me semi-conversational again).

Now I've been living in Bulgaria for a year and half, learned the Cyrillic alphabet before I moved here (that was fast and simple) but have been too lazy with my language studies here, so I'm still not conversational (which has naturally also led to finding local friends who are fluent in English, and dating women who are at least competent in it).

I've started making a bigger effort in recent weeks. I'm not in a major hurry to learn Bulgarian, but I definitely need to be consistent in my studies, and I aim to be conversational in the spring next year.
My biggest issue is expanding my vocabulary. I work both with texts (and audio) for the context, as well as recently with flash cards (have an app that integrates neatly with an English-Bulgarian dictionary app), but it seems that for every five new words I learn I quickly forget a couple again.

Post: #41

(09-26-2014 08:29 PM)KsockZ Wrote:  I've been study Spanish now for 7+ years, however never very seriously. I know enough to do my job, and to game some girls who are already interested in my looks and style. but after spending 6 days in Colombia, I want to become fluent. I'm going to dedicate the rest of the year to busting my ass learning more and more.

I have pimsleur, and another computer based program similar to Rosetta Stone, also will be using memrise, duo lingo, talking with my mexican harem girls in Spanish rather then English, watch more Spanish TV at work, read children books and progress to harder books, download and watch some of my favorite movies in Spanish, listen and translate and try to memorize as many shakira songs as possible, and use other various materials available online for free or paid if need be.

I would suggest taking some courses as well. Pretty hard to get to an advanced level without any formal training.

Post: #42

(09-26-2014 08:51 PM)Americas Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 08:29 PM)KsockZ Wrote:  I've been study Spanish now for 7+ years, however never very seriously. I know enough to do my job, and to game some girls who are already interested in my looks and style. but after spending 6 days in Colombia, I want to become fluent. I'm going to dedicate the rest of the year to busting my ass learning more and more.

I have pimsleur, and another computer based program similar to Rosetta Stone, also will be using memrise, duo lingo, talking with my mexican harem girls in Spanish rather then English, watch more Spanish TV at work, read children books and progress to harder books, download and watch some of my favorite movies in Spanish, listen and translate and try to memorize as many shakira songs as possible, and use other various materials available online for free or paid if need be.

I would suggest taking some courses as well. Pretty hard to get to an advanced level without any formal training.

While I agree, there's lots of people (on here too) who don't think that classes are essential and think they're a waste of time and money. Myself, I enjoyed my Spanish classes that I took in Bogota, met some cool people and definitely learned quite a bit, but at $250/week, they were a bit pricey, I hear that its much cheaper in places such as Peru or Guatemala. I'm also fluent in French and graduated with a degree in it, that was a bit much as I'll never use it and probably would have learned it better if I had spent three years working in a French city, but its a nice language to speak and it definitely helped me learn Spanish.

Learning a language is probably one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever gone through and I recommend it to everyone, it isn't easy but its a tangible goal, trust me, the first time you game a chick from start to finish entirely in her language, you'll know it was worth it.

Post: #43

(09-26-2014 09:53 PM)scotian Wrote:  While I agree, there's lots of people (on here too) who don't think that classes are essential and think they're a waste of time and money. Myself, I enjoyed my Spanish classes that I took in Bogota, met some cool people and definitely learned quite a bit, but at $250/week, they were a bit pricey, I hear that its much cheaper in places such as Peru or Guatemala.

I think people really underestimate that there are two distinct assets of learning a language, but both need to be harnessed to reach an advanced level.

One asset is building your communication skills. These are your basic speaking and comprehension skills. The best way to learn this is to immerse yourself in the language, particularly abroad in countries that predominantly speak that language. However, this can be supplemented from various sources like movies, music, basic language learning programs, or exchange groups.

The other asset is actually mastering the language. This is important because to learn any language to a high degree you need to understand and master verb conjugations, grammar, language syntax, and inflection/inflexion, ect. The only way to actually learn these things is either through rigorous and hard-core self study of grammar (which is quite difficult to do) or in a formal setting like language classes.

The thing is...you need both of them to get good at a language. For example, there are countless people who take lots of college level language classes in their native countries but if you drop them in another country suddenly they wouldn't be able to operate at all. They wouldn't understand actual conversations and would have trouble expressing themselves despite having a basic-intermediate knowledge of the language.

Similarly, if you learn all your language informally by travelling or popular sources, then you will hit a plateau. People for example will be able to operate and have general conversations, but if a conversation takes a passionate turn or they attempt to talk about deep concepts such as philosophy or politics, they won't be able to do it. Or they won't be able to write or read complex things worth shit.

So that's why I suggest to anyone who wants to reach an advanced level of language to take at least some level of formal instruction; because you just won't hit an advanced level if you don't.

About the cost thing. Yes, they can be pricey. They can also be really poor quality. You just have to be diligent in your research.

I am actually thinking about going to Quito for a month to take intensive 1 on 1 lessons because it is so cheap. In Quito you can get 40 hours of 1 on 1 lessons for $175 a week. I plan on taking 4 weeks straight to really hammer out my verb conjugations, my writing, and my reading comprehension. I have also taken a two month program at UNAM in Mexico City for ~$300, which is also a fair price. So it can be done quite economically.

My Spanish is quite solid considering I have only been learning for about a year and a half now. I do not speak English with my Mexican girlfriend at all. But I also know that I have hit a plateau and my formal mastery of the language needs to be improved.

The simple fact of the matter is if you spend 6 months-1 year of formal study and really nail down fundamentals of a language, you can use that as a backbone for the rest of your life. It's a long term investment, but learning languages is a long term thing. It takes years to master a language.

Quote:Learning a language is probably one of the most rewarding experiences I've ever gone through and I recommend it to everyone, it isn't easy but its a tangible goal, trust me, the first time you game a chick from start to finish entirely in her language, you'll know it was worth it.

I think the best thing about languages is they open new worlds and opportunities that didn't exist if you didn't know the language.

Sticking with Spanish, the amount of content out there on the web in Spanish is ridiculous; having access to that information because you can understand it opens up many possibilities. This really can be applied to anything, from being able to create new social circles, to being able to meet and associate with girls who only speak Spanish, to being able to actually appreciate and learn a new culture.

At the end of the day, language is a huge component of culture. Until you travel in a foreign country that has a different language than your own native one with the ability to speak and comprehend that language, you never really experience it.

Post: #44

(09-26-2014 10:31 PM)Americas Wrote:  Or they won't be able to write or read complex things worth shit.

Let's be honest here--anything worth reading has already been translated into English. My only motivation to learn a language is to achieve conversational fluency. I don't really care if my reading and writing skills are that of a 12 year old in my target language.

Not to mention the fact that mastering reading and writing adds significant time to your language learning and mostly for naught. I'd rather learn the colloquialisms, common idioms, the slang, and of course the bedroom dirty talk than the formal shit associated with writing and reading.

If you notice non-native speakers talking, you'd notice that most of them talk in an ultra-formal way--basically talking in such a way as if they're reading what they wrote down on paper...

==

@Scotian -- $250/week does sound expensive for South America. I'll probably go to Provence, France next year for a 6-month long French course and even that is just 2k euro in total.

Post: #45

(09-27-2014 06:00 AM)Vice Wrote:  

(09-26-2014 10:31 PM)Americas Wrote:  Or they won't be able to write or read complex things worth shit.

Let's be honest here--anything worth reading has already been translated into English. My only motivation to learn a language is to achieve conversational fluency. I don't really care if my reading and writing skills are that of a 12 year old in my target language.

Not to mention the fact that mastering reading and writing adds significant time to your language learning and mostly for naught. I'd rather learn the colloquialisms, common idioms, the slang, and of course the bedroom dirty talk than the formal shit associated with writing and reading.

If you notice non-native speakers talking, you'd notice that most of them talk in an ultra-formal way--basically talking in such a way as if they're reading what they wrote down on paper...

==

@Scotian -- $250/week does sound expensive for South America. I'll probably go to Provence, France next year for a 6-month long French course and even that is just 2k euro in total.

Exactly, why learn deep concepts about a language when you probably won't even need it. I just want to be fluent enough to understand the average person and be able to hold a fluent conversation, no need to be a language expert when you probably won't even use that language for deeper issues.

I also don't think you need formal schooling to be fluent in a language. I never took any classes in Spanish and never done any extensive reading (maybe read few books in Spanish) but I am fluent to the point where native speakers ask me how to spell something or what is the meaning of word x (certainly writing on Spanish speaking forums helped me a lot).

I am moving to France soon, hopefully I will be able to learn the language as fast as possible.

Post: #46

(09-27-2014 06:00 AM)Vice Wrote:  Let's be honest here--anything worth reading has already been translated into English.

This is completely incorrect.

Quote:My only motivation to learn a language is to achieve conversational fluency. I don't really care if my reading and writing skills are that of a 12 year old in my target language.

Listen, everyone has certain goals with a language, if you don't want to actually master a language that is fine. That wasn't the point of my post.

However, if you actually spent significant time in Latin America or Spain and you can't read at all, you will not be able to function. What if you want to rent an apartment and can't read the contract? What if you want to set up a bank account? What if you end up in a situation with authorities or legal situation? These things require more than a conversational level of Spanish.

If you only spend a bit of time in Spanish speaking countries than who cares, do what you want.

Quote:Not to mention the fact that mastering reading and writing adds significant time to your language learning and mostly for naught. I'd rather learn the colloquialisms, common idioms, the slang, and of course the bedroom dirty talk than the formal shit associated with writing and reading.

Learning how to read and write, especially read, is never for naught. Languages are not a binary process. If you know how to read complex things in another language, then you probably will be able to speak about complex things in that language.

Post: #47

(09-27-2014 11:44 AM)Americas Wrote:  

(09-27-2014 06:00 AM)Vice Wrote:  Let's be honest here--anything worth reading has already been translated into English.

This is completely incorrect.

Really? Then list some names.

Quote: However, if you actually spent significant time in Latin America or Spain and you can't read at all, you will not be able to function. What if you want to rent an apartment and can't read the contract? What if you want to set up a bank account? What if you end up in a situation with authorities or legal situation? These things require more than a conversational level of Spanish.

Firstly, it's impossible to not be able to read at least middle-school level stuff if you're conversationally fluent. Most of us learn languages visually (and not just aurally) and that automatically helps in reading comprehension. What I said is that it's useless to focus on learning to write or read at an advanced level. Setting up a bank account doesn't require even 5th grade reading ability. Reading the contract? Um, no one obeys those contracts outside of the developed world anyway.

Secondly, I wrote about achieving conversational fluency, not being merely at a conversational level.

As for the rest of your points, hey it's your life and your time.

I want to pursue multiple languages in the near future (French, Spanish, and maybe a third one) and if I were to focus on mastery on all fronts in 3 different languages then I'd be in my 60s by the time I accomplished it.

I'd much rather focus on the part that gives me actual joy -- conversation.

I speak from experience. I'm a native speaker of another language aside from English. Guess how much stuff I read in it? None. Write? Haven't written a non-English word in the last 6 years.

Post: #48

(09-27-2014 08:56 PM)Vice Wrote:  Really? Then list some names.

The best sources to get information on current events in Latin America are Latin American newspapers, which are not usually available in English.

Most academic texts that are written in Spanish are not translated.

Many sources of data, such as demographics, are only available in Spanish.

There are thousands of websites that are only available in Spanish on the internet.

If you really don't think that knowing another language doesn't open up a lot of avenues for finding information I don't know what to tell you.

Quote:Firstly, it's impossible to not be able to read at least middle-school level stuff if you're conversationally fluent. Most of us learn languages visually (and not just aurally) and that automatically helps in reading comprehension.

That's actually not true. I know a lot of non-native speakers of Spanish, that are much better than I, that couldn't accurately read a Cien Años de Soledad or a Don Quixote.

Quote:What I said is that it's useless to focus on learning to write or read at an advanced level.

And I am saying it is not. Like I said, learning to speak a language is not a binary process. The more time you spend working on a language, particularly through a number of avenues, the better you will become at it.

Quote:Setting up a bank account doesn't require even 5th grade reading ability. Reading the contract? Um, no one obeys those contracts outside of the developed world anyway.

Considering I actually tried to break my lease earlier this year and couldn't, it doesn't seem like you know what you are talking about.

Quote:Secondly, I wrote about achieving conversational fluency, not being merely at a [i]conversational level.

Fluency at the end of the day really means nothing. All it means is the ability to string together sentences and words in a fluent nature. One can actually be fluent in a language with as little as a 3000 word vocabulary, but that doesn't make someone proficient in a language.

And I didn't even go into having a job or conducting business in another language. If you want to survive in any professional setting in another language, you need to be able to read and write.

--------------

Regardless, I don't really care to debate this.

This all came from a comment where I said that a person should also take a formal course in a language because it will help them learn it better. This isn't really debatable, it's a complete fact. Can you learn a language independently? Sure, but it's actually much less efficient and you can plateau quite easily that way. It's pretty hard to reach an advanced proficiency in any language without some level of formal instruction. We all learned how to speak English properly with some degree of formal instruction, learning another language is no different.

Post: #49

I'm currently on day 77 of learning French. I've learned a lot over that time, but I can definitely say I'm not close to fluent. I don't quite pick up everything said to me, and I'm a bit slow forming my responses. That's not to say I'm doing a bad job, but learning any language well enough to read with little error and engage in a normal dialogue is going to take months. My goal is to start seriously taking up Spanish (a language I did in high school), by the end of November. I don't expect to be an expert in French by then, but I hope to be able to hold conversations and continue to accumulate things.

Post: #50

Let's keep the worthiness of learning a language debate off this thread Vice.