Post: #1

Most people in the world are probably not truly open minded. If I said something to you that completely contradicted what youve always though, you would probably dismiss me and forget about it. There is a well known coggniitive bias in humans to discredit things that you dont already agree with and give creedence to anything that fits in with what you believe.

But are YOU truly open minded? If someone tells you something that doesnt conform with your preconcieved beliefs and notions, do you think "hmm, maybe thats right"? Or do you dismiss ideas that contradict your own?

I have been trying recently, in an effort to be less argumentative, to be more "open minded". Even if I am knowledgeable on a subject, if someone says something that I disagree with, I will say something like "hm, interesting" and allow the person to continue. Sometimes their perspective seems valid, sometimes not, but generally I find that it is very difficult for me to accept the role of being open minded and believing that others may actually know something better than myself. Is this blind ego forcing me to think Im right and the rest are dumb? Or is this rational in that I know a lot about topics A B and C? I am unsure honestly. It is interesting To notice my own cognitive biases, though.

Post: #2

I've found that some of the most intolerant people I've ever met were liberals.

Post: #3

(03-23-2014 09:15 PM)aphelion Wrote:  I've found that some of the most intolerant people I've ever met were liberals.

ironic enough, conservatives tend to be more open minded than liberals. liberals are the type who will call you "closed minded" if you dont agree to their ideas 100%.

Post: #4

I started focusing on pure knowledge gain about 4 years ago. Ever since then I've had a strong sense of isolation whenever it comes to social or political ideas. Most people are cemented in their beliefs and will hit you with denial if you suggest a contrary view simply to expand their horizons. That's been my experience, not the standard to set anyone else's experiences by. It is a small and completely worthy price for gaining more truths in return though

Post: #5

Tony, I have found that too. Political chats are basically people agreeing with each other or getting upset at each other.

Only in very obscure areas where people have no preconcieved notions can you actually share something new with them.

Post: #6

(03-23-2014 11:03 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Only in very obscure areas where people have no preconcieved notions can you actually share something new with them.

Untrue. You can share anything new with anyone if you can do it in a language that piques their interest and doesn't ping their natural ideological defense mechanisms.

Telling yourself people are closed-minded is just an excuse to avoid coming up with arguments that are persuasive, interesting and genuinely delivered.

The problem is not the impossibility of persuading people, the problem is sacrificing your superficial popularity as the expense of changing minds.

You can be Socrates or you can be concerned first with being loved. Few are willing to make the jump to the former. It's an ugly calling more than some great goal. But everybody is open minded. If you can find the key.

Post: #7

(03-23-2014 11:22 PM)Sawyer Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 11:03 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Only in very obscure areas where people have no preconcieved notions can you actually share something new with them.

Untrue. You can share anything new with anyone if you can do it in a language that piques their interest and doesn't ping their natural ideological defense mechanisms.

Telling yourself people are closed-minded is just an excuse to avoid coming up with arguments that are persuasive, interesting and genuinely delivered.

The problem is not the impossibility of persuading people, the problem is sacrificing your superficial popularity as the expense of changing minds.

You can be Socrates or you can be concerned first with being loved. Few are willing to make the jump to the former. It's an ugly calling more than some great goal. But everybody is open minded. If you can find the key.

you sort of proved him right though. I've found that being intellectually honest is not always appropriate in professional settings and can end up hindering you a lot. it's true that playing Socrates will change minds, but you may end up with irreversible social damage done by then, not making that mind-freeing a worthy gain.

I choicefully spend my time entertaining the more creative minds only. Im not really concerned with that making me lazy or cold either.

I know that may not be right and there could be a better way, but I don't know it yet. flock-like views can be scary to me. you're never sure how radical a person may respond to your points

Post: #8

That's fair. Being intellectually honest is SELDOM appropriate, let alone fruitful.

Post: #9

I do respect your support of chasing truth though

Post: #10

I do try, and if its something that I don't really know about, I will think about it before responding.

Having said that... I don't really meet a lot of intelligent people, so a lot of the time I am replying with "you're a fucking dumb cunt".

Post: #11

I think open-mindedness just means that you keep all of your beliefs about the world in the category "seems to be the case so far based on what I know. Subject to change."

They may be useful constructions but all knowledge is amenable apart from hard physical facts. And even then...

I mean, just think of the kinds of nonsense you believed in as a teenager and the visceral certainty with which you believed it.

To quote Don Draper: "Young people don't know anything. Especially that they're young." That's for damn sure.

Post: #12

with that this thread has reached conclusion in my eyes. solid

Post: #13

"Don't be so open minded that your brains fall off" Chesterton

Post: #14

I tend not to get too involved in political discussions except with my close friends and occasionally immediate family. I guess just being on a website like this means our ideas are the kinds that will entice people to want to challenge you.

I share quite similar viewpoints to my father, which was basically implemented when he introduced me to Roissy which linked me to Roosh. I'm talking about mostly the political/cultural side of things, not so much in the sense of gaming women.

Post: #15

Open minded doesn't mean you can't judge. Truth is not an abstraction, it exists, and even if truth can't be known by humans, it's possible to value contradicting statements with different weight.

For your personal contacts, small talk isn't intended to discover truth, but to establish trust. So, let people have their own views, no matter how dumb or wrong.

For personal intellectual growth, you can't be compromising, because being wrong about something will hold you back in discovering bigger truths you can only get through logical deduction.

Only the Old Greeks managed to combine the two together.

Post: #16

(03-23-2014 11:03 PM)Sonsowey Wrote:  Tony, I have found that too. Political chats are basically people agreeing with each other or getting upset at each other.

Only in very obscure areas where people have no preconcieved notions can you actually share something new with them.

Most people aren't worth having a discussion with about politics. Every so often, two people recognize each as knowledgeable and proceed to trade ideas, despite having different perspectives.

My political understanding isn't significant enough, but sometimes people enjoying hearing my social perspectives, which is something I know a little more about.

I just avoid political conversations now unless I'm trolling, which is often.

Post: #17

If you want to make friends avoid topics like politics or religion. Stick with music, movies and travel. Can't go wrong.

Post: #18

I'm not perfect. No one is, but i have taken a few instances and changed my opinion on things. Most of the time it happens in real life, a few times it has happened on this forum.

I've adjusted a few of my ideas when better ones come along. I wish that could happen more often. I'd become a smarter person.