Post: #26

Yes, small business is the key. Think of what you're doing right now for work and if you could make $$$ on your own with it.

I just made some moves to change from wage-slave to independence. For almost two years I've worked for an IT company that contracts out to do other jobs. I'm essentially permanently assigned to this one site and know exactly what the hourly rate being charged to them for my work. Ideally I'll try to land clients on my own and charge roughly the same rate, except this time I'll get to keep most of the money (I'm salaried which is the biggest slavery of all).

Post: #27

Totallyy forgot to add this to my previous post. You may find working for a startup for small business to be more rewarding and more fun. At corporations your supposed to be a robot doing one task and really get no validation or recognition. At a startup you often are a jack of all trades, do a number of different tasks vs bein a robot pulling one report over and over.

I also like that with startups you tend to work hand in hand with higher ups and even with the ceo. I was working for a internet startup in Chicago and you actually had input into the running of the company or direction we went, were involved in higher level meetings, we had say in who they hired and you actually were recognized for stuff you did.

I told a story in another post about how I went from this startup to orbitz and quit in the middle of a meeting on my third day because I knew I couldn't take it.[/code]

Post: #28

The problem with startups is just that, they're startups. These companies are just starting out with little to no experience under their belt and clients are antsy about investing money and services into a company that's not yet ripe. On top of that there is never any guarantee that a new company won't go belly up. At least with a corporation you have a chance at some job security and hopefully saving up some serious money while gaining experience at the same time provided you want to start a company in a related field of work.

Post: #29

(03-24-2014 02:08 PM)Alpha Hunter Zero Wrote:  The problem with startups is just that, they're startups. These companies are just starting out with little to no experience under their belt and clients are antsy about investing money and services into a company that's not yet ripe. On top of that there is never any guarantee that a new company won't go belly up. At least with a corporation you have a chance at some job security and hopefully saving up some serious money while gaining experience at the same time provided you want to start a company in a related field of work.

You bring up a good point. The startup I was working for was pretty well establishd as far as startups go, we were at teh point of having venture capital companies looking at us. Job stability wasn't really a big issue although when things crashed in 2007 most of our advertisers were car companies and we kinda suffered, a few hihg up people got laid off.

Many people work for startups not solely for the money but in the hopes the company goes public and you get rich with company stock. A true startup is generally just a couple people. When teh company I worked for started it was like the CEO and 2 employees he poached from his old company. I think I got hired on at like 39 employees, when I left there was 129 employees. I wish I would have stuck it out at the job longer but my problem I started an internship/contract employee status with another girl who was an idiot. I felt like they didn't wanna hire me on and not hire her so basically I kinda got lumped in so our progression was at the same pace even though I was leaps and bounds ahead of her.

Post: #30

After I read Atlas Shrugged at uni, I was really motivated to work hard and be productive. I grinded away in finance jobs for 4+ years only to COMPLETELY run out of steam. Then I changed things up completely, where lots of the time I am free and I have some control over my schedule. However, I still don't feel motivated to work like I did when I was younger. Not sure what the missing ingredient is. I'm leaning towards agreeing with cardguy here in that the best life is a life of play and leisure, at least for some people. Unfortunately that's not always possible.

Post: #31

@president carter: Looks like you did a complete 180 on your lifestyle. If memory serves me right during our conversations you went to Russia and became an English teacher. Perhaps instead of doing both extremes (working nonstop, making good money but burning out and having barely any free time vs working a relaxing flexible schedule but money isn't as good ) you could try doing something towards the middle. Why don't you try creating a startup finance company? After getting settled in you'd be your own boss and live life pretty much on your own terms.

Post: #32

The worse thing about work - is that it removes spontaneity from life.

I wanna' stay up all night, drink bourbon and listen to Ethiopian folk music.

Can't do it.

I have to go bed in a couple of hours.

Just wanted to post this - since spontaneity is the crucial word I have been searching for in the past when discussing this topic.

Post: #33

Feel free to read my threads/article for some motivation and/or tips.

I'm done with my Corporate job for reasons similar to yours.

Told them I quit last week.

Going into business can be risky but there may be another option for you working for someone that you actually like. For example, there are people starting up their own business all the time.

Network like crazy to FIND THEM.

This may be my plan. Will post if/when it becomes a reality.

Post: #34

Cardguy nailed it for me, spontanaeity is huge to me. Any job with repetitive set hours kills me.

I got an EMT cert and was going to become a paramedic /firefighter. I did the rounds in an ambulance which are crazy hours and low pay.

Went the other way into computer science for opportunities to work anywhere, start a business, $$$ opportunities.

Still not sure if I made the right choice.

When I made these decisions the thoughts from this thread were in my mind back then.

I have tried all most of the paths I wanted to I still can't decide which one to give 100% steam. I need to decide sooner than later.

Post: #35

^^^ Often in Corporate jobs, spontanaiety is crushed because there's no where to take it. It makes people go back into a shell from which they never return well into 20+ year careers. Not sure I'm doing that.

Post: #36

Spontaneity is definitely curtailed, without question. It's one of the joys of childhood and high school / college life: you're not really responsible to anyone, not even to yourself really, you can goof off a lot more.

I've been working in corporate jobs for 13 years, have since climbed up to management at a large international bank.

Four years ago I had enough of the repetitive work and being chained to my cube and asked to work remotely. If they were to say no, then I was going to quit and start up my own business, even though it was likely to fail.

My employer surprisingly said yes and I worked remotely for three years. My life improved substantially after that and gave me a fresh perspective on things.

I went back into the office full-time last year. While I can't stand the commute and regular hours, I was given a 30% wage increase, and my bonus jumped 50%. I'm being promoted now and am being more challenged at work.

Was it worth it? Ultimately I think so because I've meet a great girl, where we now can buy a nice house and start a family. Will I do it forever? No, I'll probably transition into real estate once my nestegg is big enough because I'm pretty familiar with it. But I can't walk away from it now, so my dreams of becoming an entrepreneur are, at this moment, dead.

If you're very dissatisfied with your job, don't make much, have a shit boss/employer, and don't have a serious girlfriend or dependents, then I would advise attempting to branch off on your own, as RioNomad succinctly described it. The downsides are small but the upsides are huge.

I got a lot of inspiration and know-how from Tim Ferriss's book Four-Hour Work Week. A lot of guys here don't like him, but this book inspired me and gave me ideas on to work remotely.

Another book to read is How to Get Rich . Felix will mince no words in describing what you're getting into if you branch out on your own and try to make some good money.

Good luck, and PM me if you want any advice.

Post: #37

(04-22-2014 05:07 PM)cardguy Wrote:  The worse thing about work - is that it removes spontaneity from life.

I wanna' stay up all night, drink bourbon and listen to Ethiopian folk music.

Can't do it.

I have to go bed in a couple of hours.

Just wanted to post this - since spontaneity is the crucial word I have been searching for in the past when discussing this topic.

Very true. I've thought about this at length and it drives me nuts because I love the spontaneous part of my nature.

It would be an interesting exercise in thought to brainstorm ways to make money that still allowed you to be spontaneous. No easy challenge, that's for sure.

I think there is some spontaneity in writing books, if you can pull it off enough to make a good living and love it enough that you won't always be spontaneously doing something else. haha

I read a great book not too long ago called "Daily Rituals," about the different routines of writers and other artists throughout history. http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Rituals-Maso...y+rituatls

And while some were consistently disciplined, day in and day out, others would be completely obsessed workaholics for a few weeks or a couple months and then just fuck off for a long time. They worked more with their natural rhythms than anything else.

Obviously not easy for the average joe to pull off but I think it is possible to design your life this way, especially with the internet.

A lot of online marketing projects could be dealt with this way too (once they were set up and making money). If you have an information product, for instance, you could go through intense bursts of marketing it and then wander off to get lost in your life again, until you had a burst of creativity that brought you back to get buried in marketing work (or creating another product) for a while.

For me, brief and intense periods of extremely hard work and creative obsession have always felt more natural, but our society is built around the idea of daily routine. In the mobile world, however, I think there's a lot of room for creatives to live the life they want.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #38

The more I have a schedule or routine I have to stick to. The more my mind rebels and wants to do the complete opposite.

Sometimes I skip a nights sleep - just so I can have a bit of spontaneity in my life and still go into a work. It is difficult to do - but it is worth it when your mind is buzzing and you don't want to chain yourself down by forcing yourself to go to bed.

Spontaneity is a bit like Zen. It isn't any one thing - it is just the freedom to do what you wanna' do there and then. Even if it is just kicking back whilst listening to music and drinking bourbon.

Post: #39

Yes that was the same with me till I got "semi retired". I think it also depends on your personality and if you vibe with your job etc. Another point is even when one doesn´t have to work one get´s a bad conscience because everybody is very busy. - Now in a more relaxed country one feels more free because people are more easy going. Also having sun is very important for the mood. It gives about 30% more happiness.

Sometimes I think about looking for a job in the tourism sector but then I think oh no please.

Post: #40

I love this post ! A lot of people told me that I'm lazy because I don't like working. Well this isn't true. I work my ass at the gym in a way they will never experienced because they are the lazy ones. I studied to get a degree in humans sciences. After that, I needed to go to university because my degree don't worth shit. I wanted to study law or criminology but I figured out that I would hate those jobs. So I dropped out of college and I still don't know what I'll do in my future. Actually I'm working as a security agent and I fucking hate it. Nothing is worst than doing NOTHING for 12 hours. Did I said nothing ? Oh it ain't true... I need to go and check if by chance there's something happening in some empty rooms... Talk about feeling and being useless ?

Post: #41

Threads like this are why I strongly support Unconditional Basic Income, which will allow citizens to live modestly without having to waste their extended lives doing meaningless jobs and get additional money by doing what they love.

This sounds gullible and utopian, but think about it. Robotics and Artificial Intelligence are making great strides (just yesterday a supercomputer passed the Turing Test) and the day where lower corporate drones in charge of menial tasks will be replaced by machines will come sooner than later.

Productivity gains will allow for a smarter redistribution of a nation's wealth.

Post: #42

(06-08-2014 06:33 PM)Spede Wrote:  Threads like this are why I strongly support Unconditional Basic Income, which will allow citizens to live modestly without having to waste their extended lives doing meaningless jobs and get additional money by doing what they love.

You would probably enjoy reading Michael O. Church's blog:

• We should pay people not to subordinate (2013)
  

Post: #43

(06-08-2014 06:38 PM)Icarus Wrote:  You would probably enjoy reading Michael O. Church's blog:

• We should pay people not to subordinate (2013)
  

Interesting read (though a bit short on the proposed alternative), will dig into the blog's other articles, thanks!

Edit: I agree to a large extent with his 2011 stance on the matter, for example:

Quote:As a libertarian socialist, I believe that government should provide a basic income (of about half the per-capita GDP) and safety net in order to eliminate poverty. I would argue that the basic income should be provided to all people, so that a person’s income is a monotonic function of wages earned. (That is, there isn’t the “welfare valley” in which a person’s income drops when going from welfare to entry-level work.)

Quote:In a libertarian socialist system, the right of free enterprise is recognized as long as it does not impinge on others’ rights, including a fair society and a clean environment. Now that being fired is an inconvenience but not a disaster, companies can be allowed to hire and fire at will. There’s a floor on economic well-being but no ceiling, as I honestly can’t see a good reason why the genuinely most productive people shouldn’t be given huge rewards. What I don’t like is seeing a class of generally untalented and ineffectual people given huge rewards just because of where they were born, and I especially don’t like the fact that these enormous rewards enable their arrogance and lead them to destroy everything, as we observed in the financial meltdown of 2008.