Post: #1

I could really use some advice right now.

I applied for a couple of serving jobs earlier this week and received call backs right away. One of the places is a nice little Indian spot in a decent area located near a college. It doesn't look like the kinda place where a lot of money is being made, but the manager says I'll definitely make $100-$200 a day.

The other spot is on fire. It's one of the hottest places in the city and it's located in an area I love and in walking distance from these apartments I'm looking into. As a server it seems like making bank there is as easy as walking in the door. I love the vibe of this place, and I can make a ton of connections and break into some social circles here. LOTS of chicks working here.

The first place: I clicked with the manager instantly. It was just easy to get along with him, and have an open conversation with him. He basically hired me on the spot, and he wants me to start on Monday. I kept it straight with him and let him know there was another job on the table and having a hard time deciding which way I want to go, and he was completely cool about it, and he's giving me a couple days to think about it.

The hot spot: I've been killing the interviews, but they keep telling me to come back for another interview. I'm waiting on a call to setup the 3rd interview. In the first interview I was being interviewed by a woman (an average white female with a feminist look about her) and she was sort of cold, I warmed her up and had her laughing, but she seemed like she could be an issue. The 2nd interview was another woman (young hipster) and she was much friendlier, we had a good vibe and she seemed to like me a lot. They want me to come in for a 3rd interview with a guy. The thing with this job is they want me to come in as a server assistant first and work my way up, which is perfectly fine, but I don't know what that money would look like compared to the first place.

The things I like about the first place: The manager is cool as hell, there's money to be made (according to the manager), and I get a server position right out the gate.

The second place: It might be an awesome place to work, lots of cool people to work with, it's located where I hang out 90% of the time.

Things I don't like about the first place: Just don't know if the money is really there.

The second: they want to bring me in as a server assistant, lots of female managers (could be an issue).

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Also, does a 3rd interview mean you pretty much have the job, because they were talking like the job's mine, but if it is what's the deal with all these interviews?

Post: #2

The upscale, young crowd place seems, from my experience, like its filled with beauracracy that you'll quickly encounter soon after you're hired and that during the initial hiring stage that they're trying to knock your qualification and placement down a few pegs to pay you less. I would go with the Indian place. A personable boss is rare to have and you may learn more about floating a business and providing customer service better from a small business owner. I'm speaking more on learning gains because serving is usually mediocre pay that's has a ceiling for profits from all my experiences in upscale to pub. You may actually make more at a mom and pop with less employees because the owner won't likely limit your hours or pay if you want to push out a few more tables or hours that day.

I have a good experience being on a four man staff at a small pizza place where I made a good amount of money before I left and the business made enough to buy a place three times its former size

Post: #3

How long would you have to be a sever assistant for? If it's two or three months, while you learn the ropes, that should be fine. It's its ten to twelve months, then that's a different deal. Have those discussions before you accept the job.

Also, be upfront with the second place about having an offer from the Indian restaurant. Don't make it out to be an ultimatum, but say that you are very interested in working for them but that you have another offer. Because you need to start earning money soon, you would be very grateful if they could get back to you within a week.

Post: #4

never mind

Post: #5

In my experience, who you work for is more important than what work you do.

Go with the Indian restaurant. Don't reward the hip place for pulling your chain and screwing you around. Bureaucratic work places are best avoided.

Post: #6

what Ardbeg said. I meant to add that in there because it's an important factor to let them know that you don't look lowly on yourself as an employee.

I've been a manager before and been in a similar place to where you are. Went for several interviews at hip type restaurant and ending up being told they didn't need me. I laughed and immediately left after. they didn't know they lost out when I was very able and initially motivated put in work

Post: #7

I'd go for the full server job rather than server assistant. Hip, young places tend to only let the girls serve and make the guys run the food and bus the tables. If that's the case at the 2nd option I don't see you becoming a server any time soon. If anything you can work at the Indian restaurant to boost your resume and bank account and continue applying elsewhere.

I've realized you need to treat jobs like dating. Never talk to only one and always have a few options lined up.

Post: #8

As a rule of thumb, always pick the job that will teach you more or has the better mentor, even if it means less pay. Learning skillz will pay off in the long run.

Post: #9

Thanks, guys. I really appreciate all the advice. I'm definitely leaning more toward the 1st option at the moment. I do want to have another discussion with the 2nd place and ask how long they'd want me in that position. Being around people I could learn from was also a factor, which is why making that connection with the manager at the 1st place was a big thing for me.

Post: #10

Consider telling place #2 that you have an offer at a similar joint which you need to act on. This should make them quit yanking your chain as it demonstrates that you're in demand and will not wait around forever.

If the offer is attractive and you think place #2 is likely to lowball you on salary, consider asking if they're capable of matching your current offer.

Also I wouldn't specifically ask about how long they want you to stay in the position, unless the job is typically seasonal in nature or otherwise for a specific timeframe. Another way for phrase the same question is to ask about their average employee turnover or attrition rates.

Post: #11

BE WARY of selfish business practices also. they may need to make a hire at the moment and they've been yanking you along because they 'may' want you, but aren't sure and have others in the wings. don't take it as a certain truth just because they start bending at the knee after you speak about another clone job. I don't want to go off this alone, but defer to guy instinct. also go off a comprehensive picture of the place and your interactions with them

talk to some employees while theyre on break

*ask the management prior to this if the place has cameras or you think managers may find out and frown on this or if you simply want to be respectful to the higher up staff

Post: #12

3 interviews for a server's job? The world's gone mad.

Female bosses can suck. But just get in, earn your money, get out and don't get involved in "office" politics. And definitely don't take your work home with you (unless it's edible).

Post: #13

Yeah three interview for a server position is definitely crazy.

I personally would go with the Indian place. I have some experience with working in hipster environments and it was always a disappointment. Even though I actually look quite hipsterish.

For the most part, hipsters are pretty insecure people who use their "cool" positions as a leverage to gain power over people. Do you know some people working with VICE? Every single person I met who works there fits that description - mama's boys who have been picked on when they were younger and who are now compensating by cultivating a cooler than thou image.

The guys wo founded VICE, however, are pretty cool. Made some good cash by fooling dumb hipsters into believing VICE is cool and then selling that hipster audience to corporate clients. Smart move.

Post: #14

I haven't read what everyone else said but sincerely hope you went with the latter

Post: #15

(03-23-2014 12:56 AM)CKSEA Wrote:  I haven't read what everyone else said but sincerely hope you went with the latter

Haven't made a final decision yet. Why do you think I should go with that one?

Post: #16

Do you have previous experience being a server? Is the Indian place run by Indians?

Post: #17

(03-23-2014 05:02 PM)ChocolateCockOfZeus Wrote:  

(03-23-2014 12:56 AM)CKSEA Wrote:  I haven't read what everyone else said but sincerely hope you went with the latter

Haven't made a final decision yet. Why do you think I should go with that one?

I'm also gonna go against the grain here and say that you'd learn more at the second place.

See, at the Indian restaurant you'll probably have a cooler boss who'll let you have your way, and may even show you the ropes of the business.

At the second restaurant, you'll have a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of unreasonable decision making, and essentially you'll compete with girls, who will, by and large be preferred.
So basically, you'll be discriminated against.
You're young, and I presume this isnt what you want to do for life.

Its a wonderful thing to be discriminated against right now.Because you can take it. And it will force you to keep your eyes open, and scrap for your rightful place. It will keep you from becoming complacent. It will likely strip away a large part of your entitlement complex (we all have one, albeit of different magnitudes).

A hostile workplace is by far the best thing that a young man can go through,professionally.

Caveats : It will eat away at your soul. Avoid staying for too long (unless you see an opportunity to work your way up and overtake your bosses). Avoid becoming cynical. You WILL feel depressed,angry,whored-out and become cynical. Dont. Keep your eyes open and keep a cool head at all times. Figure out ways to make more dough. Always stay sharp.

And you'll come out much stronger


While some types of Indians are much more savvy than people give them credit for, learning the ropes of the business is something you can do from outside.
Sure, it helps to have a mentor, but I'm not sure how much he can teach you in a short term job (considering up to 1 year as short term).

I say go with the second, but keep your head on and emotions in check.


The second place is on fire, thats where you want to be at.
When you become old and your energy levels drop, you can go at a more relaxed scene with less crowds.

Similar parallels can be drawn in the finance and consulting worlds.

Would you rather go with GS or MBB or the Big 4 where you'll have no dignity, work like a dog, and deal with a thousand different forces pulling you in different directions, or would you rather start out at a relaxed backwater boutique firm that may teach you some more?

You can go from the first environment to the second, but its very difficult to go from the second to the first later on in life.

You will learn much more from your bad bosses than you can from the good ones, at least initially.

Post: #18

"I applied for a couple of serving jobs earlier this week and received call backs right away. One of the places is a nice little Indian spot in a decent area located near a college. It doesn't look like the kinda place where a lot of money is being made, but the manager says I'll definitely make $100-$200 a day.

The other spot is on fire. It's one of the hottest places in the city and it's located in an area I love and in walking distance from these apartments I'm looking into. As a server it seems like making bank there is as easy as walking in the door. I love the vibe of this place, and I can make a ton of connections and break into some social circles here. LOTS of chicks working here."

The second. It has young people working at it so high turnover you'll get the server job soon and all the other perks you mentioned. It's a no brainer.

Post: #19

Quote:Do you have previous experience being a server? Is the Indian place run by Indians?

Yeah, I put up 6 years at one of the busiest places in the city. The owner is an Indian American woman. Managers are white.

Quote:I'm also gonna go against the grain here and say that you'd learn more at the second place.

See, at the Indian restaurant you'll probably have a cooler boss who'll let you have your way, and may even show you the ropes of the business.

At the second restaurant, you'll have a lot of bureaucracy, a lot of unreasonable decision making, and essentially you'll compete with girls, who will, by and large be preferred.
So basically, you'll be discriminated against.
You're young, and I presume this isnt what you want to do for life.

Its a wonderful thing to be discriminated against right now.Because you can take it. And it will force you to keep your eyes open, and scrap for your rightful place. It will keep you from becoming complacent. It will likely strip away a large part of your entitlement complex (we all have one, albeit of different magnitudes).

A hostile workplace is by far the best thing that a young man can go through,professionally.

Caveats : It will eat away at your soul. Avoid staying for too long (unless you see an opportunity to work your way up and overtake your bosses). Avoid becoming cynical. You WILL feel depressed,angry,whored-out and become cynical. Dont. Keep your eyes open and keep a cool head at all times. Figure out ways to make more dough. Always stay sharp.

And you'll come out much stronger


While some types of Indians are much more savvy than people give them credit for, learning the ropes of the business is something you can do from outside.
Sure, it helps to have a mentor, but I'm not sure how much he can teach you in a short term job (considering up to 1 year as short term).

I say go with the second, but keep your head on and emotions in check.


The second place is on fire, thats where you want to be at.
When you become old and your energy levels drop, you can go at a more relaxed scene with less crowds.

Similar parallels can be drawn in the finance and consulting worlds.

Would you rather go with GS or MBB or the Big 4 where you'll have no dignity, work like a dog, and deal with a thousand different forces pulling you in different directions, or would you rather start out at a relaxed backwater boutique firm that may teach you some more?

You can go from the first environment to the second, but its very difficult to go from the second to the first later on in life.

You will learn much more from your bad bosses than you can from the good ones, at least initially.

There's definitely a lot I can learn here. I've been in a similar situation before with terrible female management, which was what turned me off to working in the food industry when I left. I don't know why I didn't mention this before, but this isn't a long term thing, I'm doing it to make money until this other plan of mine is set in motion. I probably won't be doing this any longer than a year. That's the only thing with working the server assistant job; I don't know exactly how long they would want me in that spot. They should be calling me in tomorrow, so I'll see what they say about that.

Like I said, I'm working on something bigger, but I would love to learn how to work the bar. The hot spot has this crazy wine list and they're known for their drinks. With the knowledge I could get there I'd likely be able to go anywhere and impress employers with my wine knowledge. Problem is getting behind the bar there. At the Indian spot their wine list isn't as deep, but I'd be able to get trained on the bar in no time and get actual experience on the bar. Untrained knowledge vs Experience.

But...The second place is on fire. The connections I could make here are what's really making it the place I want to be at. I could go either way and be fine as far as the money is concerned. The part that I'm struggling with at this point is connections vs bar tending experience. Both of those could be beneficial somewhere down the line, it's just, which could be more beneficial to a lifestyle.

Quote:The second. It has young people working at it so high turnover you'll get the server job soon and all the other perks you mentioned. It's a no brainer.

On paper it's definitely a no brainer. There are just different things that make it a toss up for me personally. I'll see what happens in the 3rd interview.

Post: #20

if the assistant probation is any time more than 2-3months then go with option a.

some things to think about:

you'll have to get your abs license no matter which one you choose, so make sure to add that to the job plan and see what qualifications each requires to step behind the bar. if its not too much, see if you can apply to be a bar back at the hip joint. in this state people don't need the abc license at first to be a bar back since theyre not directly serving. check local laws. if you wont end up getting up to 6 months of bar exp then go with the indian place again

Post: #21

I would advise that you pick based on the trajectory you would like to end up on, this is where it seems like each path will lead you and you should pick based on which matches your goals:

1) Indian restaurant, small and easy going: You can be willing and they will let you learn whatever you would like. Potential income would likely be lower but I bet you could learn how the entire business works if you have a goal of being a manager or small restaurant owner at some point in time.

2) "hot" place: Money is to be had if you can navigate back stabbing and cattiness under the veil of over the top bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is there because they expect shitloads of turnover. If it some 'hot' place with young people, turnover and bureaucratic bullshit it will also peak and then dive, closing in 5-7 years when its not cool anymore. If your goal is just to make bank and you can stay above the bullshit and not care about the job you will likely get paid but come out not much further ahead career wise but with more money in your pockets.

which do you want?

Post: #22

(03-24-2014 07:51 AM)Dr. Howard Wrote:  I would advise that you pick based on the trajectory you would like to end up on, this is where it seems like each path will lead you and you should pick based on which matches your goals:

1) Indian restaurant, small and easy going: You can be willing and they will let you learn whatever you would like. Potential income would likely be lower but I bet you could learn how the entire business works if you have a goal of being a manager or small restaurant owner at some point in time.

2) "hot" place: Money is to be had if you can navigate back stabbing and cattiness under the veil of over the top bureaucracy. The bureaucracy is there because they expect shitloads of turnover. If it some 'hot' place with young people, turnover and bureaucratic bullshit it will also peak and then dive, closing in 5-7 years when its not cool anymore. If your goal is just to make bank and you can stay above the bullshit and not care about the job you will likely get paid but come out not much further ahead career wise but with more money in your pockets.

which do you want?

Owning a restaurant/bar is something I always said I would do when I'm able to.

Post: #23

So how did it go? I'll see if I can help you out anymore

Post: #24

I didn't get a call back for the 3rd interview, so I went with the Indian place. The people I've met there so far are cool. I'll start working my way behind the bar in the next couple weeks, get some experience, then move on to a better spot with that on my resume.