There are consequences for everybody. They just may not be the consequences that people in the manosphere want. Samseau is right that there will be no great reckoning.

However, I also think that the manosphere overstates, or at least misstates, the problem. Marriage is still very much alive and well among the college-educated middle and upper middle classes. The main difference is that people get married closer to 30 than 20. And in those extra years that women are spending being single, I don't think there is as much slutting it up as people think. The sort of shit you read on Jezebel or Salon or Vice or whatever, is mostly bullshit. Those chicks are fronting. Plus, internet feminism is a very small corner of a larger world in which most upper middle class women aren't spending their nights fucking DJs.

It's like that thread about the chick who felt shamed by her gynecologist, people were guessing her notch count at 80 and above. It was probably more like 15. It's cool for chicks to pretend that they are slutting it up right now, but most of them aren't really built for it. They are mostly about attention whoring, not actual whoring. Every once in a while you come across a chick who really is about that life and you can spot the difference. Real recognize real, as the saying go.

I'm talking about the upper middle class world. Among the working class and the poor, it's a bit different.

(03-14-2014 11:19 PM)RawGod Wrote:  Most women are just fine, and society isn't collapsing. 20% of people, men and women, have shitty lives and no doubt lots of regrets. And a lot more than that are putting a brave face on it and might seem OK outwardly but are struggling to hold it together. That's how it always has been.

When some absurd percentage of U.S. women are on anti-depressants, most women are decidedly not fine. The birth rate for white women in the U.S. and Europe is below replacement levels - that should tell you something. Most things in nature do at least serve their biological purpose; modern white western women do not even do that.

There are going to be consequences. In many countries there is a coming demographic crunch (that is only being papered over by immigration, but using immigration to solve it is like a dog chasing its tail) that is going to cause an economic crunch.

Charles Murray has investigated this extensively and written and spoken about it under the title of Coming Apart. Basically, there's a whole segment of underclass women who are dependent upon welfare or working minimum wage jobs. That doesn't sound like winning. Frankly, that sounds like a pretty bad way to get by.

The corresponding men are basically doing one of two things. On the one hand, they're running game and basically making enough money to live their own lives, but contributing nothing financially to either women or society at large. On the other hand, witness the growth of men who have not only dropped out of the sexual game, but have dropped out of every other game also. They're subsisting on welfare or minimum wage jobs themselves and spending their free time playing computer games or becoming Bronies. What used to be the working class that had its problems, but mostly held it together, is now in complete free fall. Without the government, they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves. That's when the demographic crunch becomes an economic crunch.

In order for society to limp onwards, a smaller and smaller share of the population of middle class beta males needs to shoulder the burden of supporting social programmes via taxes, all at the same time as supporting their wives (be those ex-carousel riders or not) and children. Many who should be those men are also falling downwards as society becomes more M-shaped, or they're voluntarily opting out in omegatude, moving abroad, etc. There is simply a point where there's only a marginal return on men "manning up" or caring, and so those men make the rational response based upon the incentives. This becomes a vicious cycle and continues to further erode the tax base. At some point, it all collapses under its own weight.

If you add all of that to an ageing population plus the fact that the average Westerner -- man or woman, but especially woman -- doesn't have anywhere near enough money for retirement, then the whole thing is a massive mess that is going to hit within a generation or so. It's going to hit women a lot worse than men because they're going to have far less money or assets generally and/or real world skills. They also generally fare worse as expatriates (whether in terms of finding a partner or in earning money abroad). Finally, women are far more risk-averse than men in general, and so they're far more likely to be caught flat-footed by radical societal change, doubly so if they have kids.

The consequences are all around us.

At work, I'm surrounded by 30-ish professional women who are wailing and gnashing their teeth that there are "no good men" any more.

My neighborhood and workplace are filled with miserable women divorcing their beta husbands. In generations past, these women would have been content with a reliable, honest provider.

There is no shortage of surveys of women showing that modern women are unhappy compared to conservative stay-at-home moms. Surveys show that women who slut around have less satisfying sex and are emotionally damaged by their lifestyle.

Aren't these consequences? The modern lifestyle itself is empty and unsatisfying for women. The reason so many of them are making false allegations of assault is because they feel terrible about what they have done and want to absolve themselves of responsibility.

Others have already pointed out the fallacy in assuming that there have been "no consequences" simply because a woman found somebody who would marry her.

There will be consequences. There will be a World War or a major famine, with hundreds of billions dying, within a couple decades. In that situation, women get the noose, drawing hard and fast.

This has happened with perfect clockwork regularity every 60-80 years for all of human history. Absolutely no reason to think this time will be different. Nobody has done anything in society to avoid this cycle of war...far from it.

The daughters of those coming wars, will look back with hissing contempt on Feminists of the 1970-2010.

Athlone:

I'm pulling this quote from your post above.

Just because many of these women can still find men does not mean that there are no consequences for them.

You're making the mistake of assuming that "finding a man = victory", when the reality is that women who've spent their entire lives feeling entitled to the most attractive men around often find it really difficult to settle for anything less once the wall creeps closer. Some manage to grab a "nice guy" with money, the house, and everything else, but they're absolutely miserable because they're simply not all that attracted to their husband (which in turn leads to sexless marriages, arguments, divorce, kids messed up by dysfunctional home environment, etc).

This is to say nothing of the women who miss the boat on men altogether, and that's a growing number of females in our society.

I agree with all of this that you are saying. In fact, I really don't see much disagreement between what you're saying, and what Samseau and I are saying.

The point is, women are suffering in society's present construction, just as we are. I don't think they're suffering as much as men are. But fundamentally the present state of affairs has crippled their biological need to be subservient to a man.

And herein lies the fundamental insanity and irrationality of what is going on. This is the crisis that nearly drives us insane: the fact that a system is in place that fundamentally hurts both sexes, but persists nonetheless. It's like we're both trapped in the same quicksand, flailing at each other with cudgels, and both sinking into the mire.

The best analogy here is a couple of Francisco Goya's "black paintings." Consider first his "Fight With Cudgels":



What better analogy could we make for the present state of male-female relations in the US today? Take a good look at this painting. Feel its savagery, despair, and insanity. Both figures are sinking into the quicksand, dying a slow death. But do they help each other? No. Instead, they persist in their own personal fight, and maul each other with cudgels. They could help each other, if they wanted. They could help each other escape. But they prefer mutual suicide.

This is the fundamental irrationality that lurks behind the civilized mask of modern America.

Another Goya painting that sums up the seedy "deal with the Devil" that women in the US have made is his "Witches Sabbat." Take a good, hard look:



Women here have made a symbolic pact with the Devil. They chose to abandon their sexuality, their humanity, and their femininity. All this, in return for the chimera of selfishness and career. And they deserve everything they get.

Anyway, the point is that I think you are underestimating the darkness out there. Yes, it's true, women are suffering along with men. But that's the whole point we're trying to make. We, both sexes, are locked into an insane combat where there are no winners. And no one knows how to stop it.

Despite all this, I don't see myself as a pessimist. I refuse to surrender to despair. I fight the blackness and horrors with an equal measure of irrational optimism.

I really think it takes a certain level of life experience to appreciate all these things fully. The opinions that one has in their early 20s will not be the same opinions one has 15 or 20 years later. It was this way with me. It's not their fault, but it's just that the real cruelties, bitterness, and injustices of life are not fully apparent to very young men yet.

When life beats a man down a little bit, and he acquires more black eyes and scar tissue, he will begin to see more of life's mixed picture.

(03-15-2014 05:17 AM)eradicator Wrote:  I was with you up until you said this part

(03-15-2014 05:02 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Women learning to settle for a man is an old theme you often see repeated in literature. But before, if a woman had a drunken romp at her town's bar, there would still be the threat of pregnancy or STD's, let alone possible social humiliation. In today's world none of those consequences exist.

We still have unwanted pregnancies and STDs(most are treatable, but HIV is still alive and well). So I am not really sure what you are thinking here, I agree that there is no social humiliation for women that have had a lot of dick and ride the cock carousel.

But first and foremost, this is a site about helping guys who want to get laid to get laid. The fact that most American women have no problem having sex right away with a man they don't know at all is something that we should consider to be a good thing, is it not?

A modern woman who gets an STD or preggo is just stupid. Morning after pill, abortion, and STD checks means only stupidity can doom a woman today. And the only uncurable STD is AIDS, which is notoriously hard to get if you're straight non-drug user.

Quote:The consequences are all around us.

At work, I'm surrounded by 30-ish professional women who are wailing and gnashing their teeth that there are "no good men" any more.

My neighborhood and workplace are filled with miserable women divorcing their beta husbands. In generations past, these women would have been content with a reliable, honest provider.

There is no shortage of surveys of women showing that modern women are unhappy compared to conservative stay-at-home moms. Surveys show that women who slut around have less satisfying sex and are emotionally damaged by their lifestyle.

Aren't these consequences? The modern lifestyle itself is empty and unsatisfying for women. The reason so many of them are making false allegations of assault is because they feel terrible about what they have done and want to absolve themselves of responsibility.

Others have already pointed out the fallacy in assuming that there have been "no consequences" simply because a woman found somebody who would marry her.

In what sense do the women suffer for their consequences? These women fucked up every step of the way - they were raised poorly into selfish materialistic whores, they slut up their college years, and then casually slut up their post-college years, GET MARRIED dispite their slutty background, GET DIVORCED and nothing happens to them afterwards except some kind of vague sense of regret.

In the old days, you couldn't even get divorced or children would go to the husband. In the old days, women were used up by 25. A lot of guys say women still suffer and I ask: Where?

MikeCF echoed these sentiments:

Quote:I'm on the older side and I'm seeing girls (well, they are my age so let's call them middle-aged women) completely alone and struggling.

Some of them were actually pleasant and decent. They just didn't have the sense to know that the party was about to end.

In a way, I view women as as much (and in some way) bigger victims of feminism than men.

We men can start over in our 30s. It might be hard and we might have an alimony/child support hole to get out of. But we can do it.

A woman can't do the same thing. If they screw up and listen to feminist lies, their lives are pretty much over.

When this stuff starts happening to girls you grew up with/went to college/grad school with and you had good interactions with (and knew that they weren't bitches), you might even find the situation somewhat sad.

How do you know these women weren't bitches and didn't deserve what they got? Did you bang these chicks? How a woman acts towards the man she's sleeping with is almost always completely different than how she acts towards others in polite society.

Furthermore, in what way are these women suffering? They basically had a life of partying and now they die single with money? In what way is this punishment?

Quote:However, I also think that the manosphere overstates, or at least misstates, the problem. Marriage is still very much alive and well among the college-educated middle and upper middle classes. The main difference is that people get married closer to 30 than 20. And in those extra years that women are spending being single, I don't think there is as much slutting it up as people think. The sort of shit you read on Jezebel or Salon or Vice or whatever, is mostly bullshit. Those chicks are fronting. Plus, internet feminism is a very small corner of a larger world in which most upper middle class women aren't spending their nights fucking DJs.

It's like that thread about the chick who felt shamed by her gynecologist, people were guessing her notch count at 80 and above. It was probably more like 15. It's cool for chicks to pretend that they are slutting it up right now, but most of them aren't really built for it. They are mostly about attention whoring, not actual whoring. Every once in a while you come across a chick who really is about that life and you can spot the difference. Real recognize real, as the saying go.

I'm talking about the upper middle class world.

Most of my bangs are girls from the upper middle class, so this is where I base most of my experiences from. "Upper middle class" girls aren't any better than lower class girls, and some of them range to massive sluts that fuck 3-4 dudes per week (maybe at least the same dudes) to shy girls who find an alpha every year or so to bang just for fun.

Without a doubt, these over educated women are some of the worst. They ignore the question of men entirely, thinking there is always plenty of time to get a man (and she's right), so they are very selfish. I have dated plenty of these chicks and I don't think I've ever had one lift a finger for me on her own. 90% of the time, in order to make anything work with a college girl from the upper middle class, I must command the relationship with an absurd amount of game.

Sure, she'll fold my laundry... but I have to tell her to do it.
Sure, she'll fuck the same night... then the next day deny all accountability and make it sound like you raped her.
Sure, she'll take time to date men... by sacrificing her sleep so she can make it to her class or exam the next day.

And when they make it to the workplace, they keep the same habits without changing their personality much. I lost my virginity to a 29-year old woman who told me she had dumped her fiancee a few months prior to meeting me. She was pretty, and I saw no reason why she wouldn't get more men in the future considering how many disparate men are out there. But also, she was doing fine in the money department, making close to 100K per year as an editor. Said she got in "with the Jews so she was set."

And just recently, I was fucking a 19-year old girl who wasn't much different - believed that having a career was the best way through life, and there was nothing I could do to convince her otherwise. I would argue to her, "My dream job is not to have a job at all." And she said, "And that's why we're so different."

So really, upper middle class women are probably the ones worst afflicted with the disease, since more than anyone they have it set in life. They have a job coming their way, either through connections or school, and they have access to tons of high value males who are willing to serve. And even if they fail to get married in time and have children, it doesn't matter for them since they have plenty of money.

Nothing is of consequence for them.

I have also seen firsthand consequences of lower class women who live as single mothers (I worked with kids for a few years and I was inside the homes of many single mothers) in their 40's, who still had men taking care of them, either because the state forced the husband via child support, or because some guys are just THAT desperate for sex they will take a single mom of 2-4 kids from different fathers.

I'll never forget one family I visited, a white mother of 5 kids, from 4 different fathers, where during the visit the youngest child, a little blonde girl of 4 said, "Mommy, I like him, can he be our new Daddy?" See, it is the kids who suffer, it is the men who pay $$$, but the women receive no punishment other than having to go to some easy ass job 5 times a week or fill out a bunch of paperwork.

Lower class, or upper class, the outcome for women is basically the same: Endless attention, endless bailouts, and endless sex until menopause (not that women care about sex). But in no sense can we say that women receive punishment for their actions.

You are right Samseau, there are no consequences for women in the current society.

But what I would argue, is that they have shitty unfulfilling lives, with a lot of anxiety, sadness and depression.

Even if they have been given everything, they still suffer. They have a totally empty, pointless life that will just create more misery around them, and damages the next generation in case of single moms.

There was this girl who did porn in faceabuse, she had cut marks in her leg. I do not even want to imagine the hell she lives in every day. Yes, she might have a roof over her head without doing anything, yes she might have sex anytime she wants, yes she probably lives through her life supported by some loser, but still, I do not want to change place with her. She is like a leaf in the wind, has no control over her life.

Lots of great points made in this thread.

#1) I agree, as of right now men are suffering FAR more than women in the USA. But the good thing is more and more men are waking up. More and more websites popping up full of men sick of this bullshit system. A system that tells them they have to do all the work and get no reward. More and more men in passing say things that I never heard 10 years ago... "all they can do is make kids, they need to shut up and stay home" from random strangers.

#2) But those on top are either extremely stupid or extremely evil. I don't know which. They are either so stupid to think that the beta males will continue to pay into this bullshit system as they keep fucking them over more and more. Or they are so evil they are doing it on purpose to de-populate the earth. Feminism both de-populates the earth and it prevents beta males from being free enough to challenge alpha males.

#3) This cannot continue much longer. And when it does collapse, most likely under the weight of our national debt, women will be crushed. They will either be forced to submit or they will starve.

IMO, the whole root cause of this was giving women the right to vote. If any advice I can give will go on beyond my life to future generations of men... NEVER give women the right to vote. Once you do, you society will collapse.

Ok. So there are no consequences for women...

What are you going to do about it? The problem is well known to us all but unless we start coming up with solutions we are just as doomed as these women.

I have an idea: What if the Russian language became a go to solution for the manosphere? What if we could make it so knowing Russian became just as essential as working out and generating wealth?
It makes sense that Russian could be an essential part of being a Red Pill man. Think about it... if all of us could speak or communicate in Russian it would be an ace up our sleeves:
- Knowing Russian as a western man would make Russian the universal language for Red Pill men everywhere.
- Knowing Russian avails us an alternative life in another part of the world, one which we were denied from birth.
- Anytime we choose we can head to eastern Europe or Russia and resume our lives.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to contribute to a program where we can all learn Russian in our own time... Does anyone have links to university lectures of 101 classes? I only recently memorized Cyrillic and I hate using pimsleur and all these other online programs. I learn best from taking notes and attending lectures to follow up with assignments in my own time

There are serious consequences for women. Yes, they can easily get sex and get spineless men or the government to provide for them. But very few women these days get what they really want: commitment from an alpha male.

In a healthier society women's sexuality is restricted and controlled by her father, who prevents her from getting used by charming, confident, irresponsible cads and gets her married ASAP to a decent, stable, hardworking provider. Up until 1980 the average age of marriage for women had never gone above 22 - for good reason.

Now, as we all know, women reject the decent, hardworking betas and get pumped and dumped by alphas from 16-30. They are delusional and think that sexual attention from alphas means these men might actually commit. This leads to ridiculous expectations which can never come true.

I know lots of well-educated, upper-middle class women in their twenties, and even by early to mid twenties many of these girls cannot get relationships from the men they want, let alone marriage. These single women are all batshit insane, and becoming crazier. They've fallen for the lie that their career will lead to fulfillment and that they can easily get married whenever they want (despite failing to even get relationships), but they are in for a very rude awakening as they head towards their thirties.

This current generation of women will be the most miserable ever.

They blame their misery on men, of course, rather than taking personal responsibility for their terrible decisions. I think they're right. Men in the past failed the societal shit test of feminism and female suffrage, and we are all reaping the consequences now. The two or three generations of men before us spinelessly gave in to women's demands in the hopes of sniffing some pussy.

However, the shittiness of current society is a wake up call for men to reclaim our masculinity. More and more men are finding the Manosphere and learning the forgotten wisdom we weren't taught growing up: assertive masculinity, authority and dominance.

The next few years or decades will be very exciting.

"I know lots of well-educated, upper-middle class women in their twenties, and even by early to mid twenties many of these girls cannot get relationships from the men they want, let alone marriage. These single women are all batshit insane, and becoming crazier. They've fallen for the lie that their career will lead to fulfillment and that they can easily get married whenever they want (despite failing to even get relationships), but they are in for a very rude awakening as they head towards their thirties."

Exactly what the one percent wanted. The family unit, by its nature, presented a threat to the powers that be. A family is a united front. Lots of them present a potential threat of resistance. So they sought to break up families by redefining them and men as "the enemy" They replaced that with feminism (i.e. corporatism), dangling the "rewards" of materialism and hedonism in exchange for women's corporate slavery.

Wall Street and the government are the Masters. Cosmo, People, TV and movies are the Messengers. And people like Sheryl Sandberg are today's equivalent of the old slave trader who conned Africans into boarding the ships with tales of a better life ahead:

"In America, you get food to eat
Won't have to run through the jungle and scuff up your feet
You just sing about Jesus, drink wine all day
It's great to be an American."
- Randy Newman "Sail Away"

I'm with Samseau and Quintus on this, and the proof is that an 18 year old like me found RoK and the forum in the first place. The fact that I approved of this ideology and had experienced traumatic events that had already planted the seed to these thoughts in the first place is reason enough to believe that there are no consequences as well as men being in dire need of help. A man my age should either be getting laid due to drunkeness or due to being a beta provider, but instead I established a pipeline of sorts and took on game early in life. These girls have no consequences for being sluts, and so are encouraged from an early age to pursue that lifestyle, that they are princesses, or lastly that men are all to blame. I have no personal knowledge of the and her plight, but what I see with my own age group is proof enough of the downward spiral. On the other hand, I see that reactionaries will strike back. The long term consequences of society's current endeavor will be remembered as an age of debauchery akin to the 1920s. People will look back and scoff at the feminazis of today, and the problems they caused in society. Society will collapse. I just hope I live long enough to see the future generations reap the rewards of the birth of a new one.

(03-15-2014 12:55 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Ok. So there are no consequences for women...

What are you going to do about it? The problem is well known to us all but unless we start coming up with solutions we are just as doomed as these women.

I have an idea: What if the Russian language became a go to solution for the manosphere? What if we could make it so knowing Russian became just as essential as working out and generating wealth?
It makes sense that Russian could be an essential part of being a Red Pill man. Think about it... if all of us could speak or communicate in Russian it would be an ace up our sleeves:
- Knowing Russian as a western man would make Russian the universal language for Red Pill men everywhere.
- Knowing Russian avails us an alternative life in another part of the world, one which we were denied from birth.
- Anytime we choose we can head to eastern Europe or Russia and resume our lives.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to contribute to a program where we can all learn Russian in our own time... Does anyone have links to university lectures of 101 classes? I only recently memorized Cyrillic and I hate using pimsleur and all these other online programs. I learn best from taking notes and attending lectures to follow up with assignments in my own time

I am a native Russian speaker.

Russian women are generally less entitled and face more negative consequences of bad behavior. However, Russia and former Soviet Union countries have a lot of problems other than feminism. For example, more violence, poor quality of medical care, poor infrastructure and bad weather most of the year.

I would recommend learning Russian (or Spanish, French, Chinese, etc) to broaden your horizons and keep your mind sharp, but there are many more useful things you could learn to make money. For example, learn a programming language, get good at it and work from anywhere.

(03-15-2014 03:01 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 12:55 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Ok. So there are no consequences for women...

What are you going to do about it? The problem is well known to us all but unless we start coming up with solutions we are just as doomed as these women.

I have an idea: What if the Russian language became a go to solution for the manosphere? What if we could make it so knowing Russian became just as essential as working out and generating wealth?
It makes sense that Russian could be an essential part of being a Red Pill man. Think about it... if all of us could speak or communicate in Russian it would be an ace up our sleeves:
- Knowing Russian as a western man would make Russian the universal language for Red Pill men everywhere.
- Knowing Russian avails us an alternative life in another part of the world, one which we were denied from birth.
- Anytime we choose we can head to eastern Europe or Russia and resume our lives.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to contribute to a program where we can all learn Russian in our own time... Does anyone have links to university lectures of 101 classes? I only recently memorized Cyrillic and I hate using pimsleur and all these other online programs. I learn best from taking notes and attending lectures to follow up with assignments in my own time

I am a native Russian speaker.

Russian women are generally less entitled and face more negative consequences of bad behavior. However, Russia and former Soviet Union countries have a lot of problems other than feminism. For example, more violence, poor quality of medical care, poor infrastructure and bad weather most of the year.

I would recommend learning Russian (or Spanish, French, Chinese, etc) to broaden your horizons and keep your mind sharp, but there are many more useful things you could learn to make money. For example, learn a programming language, get good at it and work from anywhere.

I didn't say learn Russian to make money. I'm saying that learning Russian should be seen as compulsory to Red Pill lifestyle, just as much as generating wealth, working on your game, going to the gym, etc.

Just the other day a girl saw me studying out of my Russian for Beginner's book; practicing cursive Cyrillic. She asked me why I was learning Russian, the conversation went like this:

Her: Wow that looks hard
Me: Yup Russian is a different animal
Her: Why are you learning Russian?
Me: Because I want to live there
Her: Why?
Me: Because I want to have a family one day
Her: Why can't you do that here?
Me: It's complicated.

She became very interested to know why I would rather have a family over there rather than here in perfect ol'southern California. I didn't get into it with her but this leads me into another point I'd like to make:
Ever spoken another language around American women? The loss of social control tends to frustrate them very quickly. The same is true when you bring up Russian women in their presence.

In fact, even mentioning having a Russian girlfriend in the past or present annoys the shit out of them. Anything having to do with the Russian culture... traveling there, liking Russian women, speaking the language, its like kryptonite to them.

"A man with options is a man without need." Knowing Russian means having access to a completely different world, I can't begin to imagine how having this option in life would effect me in the present.

(03-15-2014 03:49 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 03:01 PM)Brodiaga Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 12:55 PM)NomadofEU Wrote:  Ok. So there are no consequences for women...

What are you going to do about it? The problem is well known to us all but unless we start coming up with solutions we are just as doomed as these women.

I have an idea: What if the Russian language became a go to solution for the manosphere? What if we could make it so knowing Russian became just as essential as working out and generating wealth?
It makes sense that Russian could be an essential part of being a Red Pill man. Think about it... if all of us could speak or communicate in Russian it would be an ace up our sleeves:
- Knowing Russian as a western man would make Russian the universal language for Red Pill men everywhere.
- Knowing Russian avails us an alternative life in another part of the world, one which we were denied from birth.
- Anytime we choose we can head to eastern Europe or Russia and resume our lives.

I wonder if we could figure out a way to contribute to a program where we can all learn Russian in our own time... Does anyone have links to university lectures of 101 classes? I only recently memorized Cyrillic and I hate using pimsleur and all these other online programs. I learn best from taking notes and attending lectures to follow up with assignments in my own time

I am a native Russian speaker.

Russian women are generally less entitled and face more negative consequences of bad behavior. However, Russia and former Soviet Union countries have a lot of problems other than feminism. For example, more violence, poor quality of medical care, poor infrastructure and bad weather most of the year.

I would recommend learning Russian (or Spanish, French, Chinese, etc) to broaden your horizons and keep your mind sharp, but there are many more useful things you could learn to make money. For example, learn a programming language, get good at it and work from anywhere.

I didn't say learn Russian to make money. I'm saying that learning Russian should be seen as compulsory to Red Pill lifestyle, just as much as generating wealth, working on your game, going to the gym, etc.

Just the other day a girl saw me studying out of my Russian for Beginner's book; practicing cursive Cyrillic. She asked me why I was learning Russian, the conversation went like this:

Her: Wow that looks hard
Me: Yup Russian is a different animal
Her: Why are you learning Russian?
Me: Because I want to live there
Her: Why?
Me: Because I want to have a family one day
Her: Why can't you do that here?
Me: It's complicated.

She became very interested to know why I would rather have a family over there rather than here in perfect ol'southern California. I didn't get into it with her but this leads me into another point I'd like to make:
Ever spoken another language around American women? The loss of social control tends to frustrate them very quickly. The same is true when you bring up Russian women in their presence.

In fact, even mentioning having a Russian girlfriend in the past or present annoys the shit out of them. Anything having to do with the Russian culture... traveling there, liking Russian women, speaking the language, its like kryptonite to them.

"A man with options is a man without need." Knowing Russian means having access to a completely different world, I can't begin to imagine how having this option in life would effect me in the present.

I do agree. I get a lot of stigma from certain groups when I say I'm part Russian simply because of the Russian "mail order bride" business. I would recommend moving to a different country, but Russia/Eastern Europe may not be for everyone as Brodiaga noted. Do it to broaden your horizons, and not as a part of a redpill lifestyle. Just express interest in any other country but America to piss people off if that is your goal. I think the ideas are much more important than a certain guideline we must all follow.

(03-15-2014 12:20 PM)Samseau Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 05:17 AM)eradicator Wrote:  I was with you up until you said this part

(03-15-2014 05:02 AM)Samseau Wrote:  Women learning to settle for a man is an old theme you often see repeated in literature. But before, if a woman had a drunken romp at her town's bar, there would still be the threat of pregnancy or STD's, let alone possible social humiliation. In today's world none of those consequences exist.

We still have unwanted pregnancies and STDs(most are treatable, but HIV is still alive and well). So I am not really sure what you are thinking here, I agree that there is no social humiliation for women that have had a lot of dick and ride the cock carousel.

But first and foremost, this is a site about helping guys who want to get laid to get laid. The fact that most American women have no problem having sex right away with a man they don't know at all is something that we should consider to be a good thing, is it not?

A modern woman who gets an STD or preggo is just stupid. Morning after pill, abortion, and STD checks means only stupidity can doom a woman today. And the only uncurable STD is AIDS, which is notoriously hard to get if you're straight non-drug user.

Quote:The consequences are all around us.

At work, I'm surrounded by 30-ish professional women who are wailing and gnashing their teeth that there are "no good men" any more.

My neighborhood and workplace are filled with miserable women divorcing their beta husbands. In generations past, these women would have been content with a reliable, honest provider.

There is no shortage of surveys of women showing that modern women are unhappy compared to conservative stay-at-home moms. Surveys show that women who slut around have less satisfying sex and are emotionally damaged by their lifestyle.

Aren't these consequences? The modern lifestyle itself is empty and unsatisfying for women. The reason so many of them are making false allegations of assault is because they feel terrible about what they have done and want to absolve themselves of responsibility.

Others have already pointed out the fallacy in assuming that there have been "no consequences" simply because a woman found somebody who would marry her.

In what sense do the women suffer for their consequences? These women fucked up every step of the way - they were raised poorly into selfish materialistic whores, they slut up their college years, and then casually slut up their post-college years, GET MARRIED dispite their slutty background, GET DIVORCED and nothing happens to them afterwards except some kind of vague sense of regret.

In the old days, you couldn't even get divorced or children would go to the husband. In the old days, women were used up by 25. A lot of guys say women still suffer and I ask: Where?

MikeCF echoed these sentiments:

Quote:I'm on the older side and I'm seeing girls (well, they are my age so let's call them middle-aged women) completely alone and struggling.

Some of them were actually pleasant and decent. They just didn't have the sense to know that the party was about to end.

In a way, I view women as as much (and in some way) bigger victims of feminism than men.

We men can start over in our 30s. It might be hard and we might have an alimony/child support hole to get out of. But we can do it.

A woman can't do the same thing. If they screw up and listen to feminist lies, their lives are pretty much over.

When this stuff starts happening to girls you grew up with/went to college/grad school with and you had good interactions with (and knew that they weren't bitches), you might even find the situation somewhat sad.

How do you know these women weren't bitches and didn't deserve what they got? Did you bang these chicks? How a woman acts towards the man she's sleeping with is almost always completely different than how she acts towards others in polite society.

Furthermore, in what way are these women suffering? They basically had a life of partying and now they die single with money? In what way is this punishment?

Quote:However, I also think that the manosphere overstates, or at least misstates, the problem. Marriage is still very much alive and well among the college-educated middle and upper middle classes. The main difference is that people get married closer to 30 than 20. And in those extra years that women are spending being single, I don't think there is as much slutting it up as people think. The sort of shit you read on Jezebel or Salon or Vice or whatever, is mostly bullshit. Those chicks are fronting. Plus, internet feminism is a very small corner of a larger world in which most upper middle class women aren't spending their nights fucking DJs.

It's like that thread about the chick who felt shamed by her gynecologist, people were guessing her notch count at 80 and above. It was probably more like 15. It's cool for chicks to pretend that they are slutting it up right now, but most of them aren't really built for it. They are mostly about attention whoring, not actual whoring. Every once in a while you come across a chick who really is about that life and you can spot the difference. Real recognize real, as the saying go.

I'm talking about the upper middle class world.

Most of my bangs are girls from the upper middle class, so this is where I base most of my experiences from. "Upper middle class" girls aren't any better than lower class girls, and some of them range to massive sluts that fuck 3-4 dudes per week (maybe at least the same dudes) to shy girls who find an alpha every year or so to bang just for fun.

Without a doubt, these over educated women are some of the worst. They ignore the question of men entirely, thinking there is always plenty of time to get a man (and she's right), so they are very selfish. I have dated plenty of these chicks and I don't think I've ever had one lift a finger for me on her own. 90% of the time, in order to make anything work with a college girl from the upper middle class, I must command the relationship with an absurd amount of game.

Sure, she'll fold my laundry... but I have to tell her to do it.
Sure, she'll fuck the same night... then the next day deny all accountability and make it sound like you raped her.
Sure, she'll take time to date men... by sacrificing her sleep so she can make it to her class or exam the next day.

And when they make it to the workplace, they keep the same habits without changing their personality much. I lost my virginity to a 29-year old woman who told me she had dumped her fiancee a few months prior to meeting me. She was pretty, and I saw no reason why she wouldn't get more men in the future considering how many disparate men are out there. But also, she was doing fine in the money department, making close to 100K per year as an editor. Said she got in "with the Jews so she was set."

And just recently, I was fucking a 19-year old girl who wasn't much different - believed that having a career was the best way through life, and there was nothing I could do to convince her otherwise. I would argue to her, "My dream job is not to have a job at all." And she said, "And that's why we're so different."

So really, upper middle class women are probably the ones worst afflicted with the disease, since more than anyone they have it set in life. They have a job coming their way, either through connections or school, and they have access to tons of high value males who are willing to serve. And even if they fail to get married in time and have children, it doesn't matter for them since they have plenty of money.

Nothing is of consequence for them.

I have also seen firsthand consequences of lower class women who live as single mothers (I worked with kids for a few years and I was inside the homes of many single mothers) in their 40's, who still had men taking care of them, either because the state forced the husband via child support, or because some guys are just THAT desperate for sex they will take a single mom of 2-4 kids from different fathers.

I'll never forget one family I visited, a white mother of 5 kids, from 4 different fathers, where during the visit the youngest child, a little blonde girl of 4 said, "Mommy, I like him, can he be our new Daddy?" See, it is the kids who suffer, it is the men who pay $$$, but the women receive no punishment other than having to go to some easy ass job 5 times a week or fill out a bunch of paperwork.

Lower class, or upper class, the outcome for women is basically the same: Endless attention, endless bailouts, and endless sex until menopause (not that women care about sex). But in no sense can we say that women receive punishment for their actions.

Nice thread . The lower class women still get men . I personally know a 26 year old with 3 different dads and 4 kids ( would had been 4 dads and 6 kids if the twins did not die ) till got dudes line up . Still thin too ! Saw another one with a drug dealer baby daddy brought a different dude to the church with her after just 2 weeks ago was in a relationship . Sad to say us men don ' t have standards . These girls put these men on the watch list claiming they need a good man for their kids , but will break up with the good man if he is exactly doing his role . Or the man eventually realize what they are commiting too . Rinse and repeat . Strong black women who claim they don ' t need a man will eventually say it is a struggle and how it his hard to raise kids in next breath . Even though black girls get babies at an early age , their welfare and assistance is coming to an end . So by age 30 to 35 , they get another one or two . Now they are good to go until they are 50 . By this age , the women don' t have standards seeing how only the men in their life are mentally ill , substance user , and very old men . It is rare for them to get a good one . They cling on any of these men for their life . If their support is cut or their kids and family members are dead or desert them put these women in extremely hard times . My church is filled to the brim of old ladies who rejoice while admitting heavily that they need a man . I pray for the man who walk in there to become a member . Months after walking around during the week in my city , I notice a lot of older women not even on drugs offering sex for money in a sublte way . These church girls , certain family members and close friends , and street walkers are fronting big time !
When a wino or a barely function man talk to me , they tell why they failed in life and to be better than them . Not women though . They still talk like they are teenagers and blaming everyone else for their problem like my sunt . Similar to a person in a coma , their consequences happen without them realizing it . This is a problem because oldheads mold us youngbloods .

I just want to add one more thing...

In the end, it is the kids who suffer the most. We red pill men can avoid all this crap.

Kids are stuck with it. A tired bitchy mommy who never plays with them and is more worried about reality trash TV than their own kids. A school system that seems much more like a prison full of teachers just hoping to crush the kid's dreams. A country with less and less job opportunities. Thank GOD I graduated college when I did. There were actually jobs available back then and they paid me enough to get ahead financially by my 30's. A country where the single mother ghetto continues to spread into the suburbs. And on top of all that, a shit load of national debt and little to no inheritance.

Kids today in the USA are up shit creek without a paddle. Even the kids from stable upper middle class families. They are all in the same boat and that boat is sinking due to the disaster that is feminism.

At this point in my life, what I want to live beyond my time on earth is to pass down the knowledge to future men that giving women the right to vote is the greatest evil ever unveiled on this earth. Because the damage it does to future generation is beyond true analysis.

I do not suscribe to the theory women have everything, sure some may win a few battles but in the end they lose the war. Women know this but have programmed men to the point of stupidity, isn't that what the feminist movement is about. Empowering women but making men less empowered.
Sure she may be a single mom with money coming into her every month and her nice HR/Marketing gig, but no man in his right mind will love her or see her more than a one night stand, if that.

I myself am in my mid 40's and refuse to date women over 35, I know quite a few who are alright for a roll in the sack but that is all. I will not court them or lie to them in anyway to get my dick wet, the problem is there are way too many men that will show them love.
Rationale Male has a great post about the lie of women in their 30's being at their sexual peak. The truth is at age 35 is the time they hit the wall for the majority of women, having kids is risky. Yet, I know so many dudes who are whipped by women in their late 30's and early 40's.
If you are reading this and haven't made it to EE/FSU then you are missing out on life. I have dated a few girls from that region and they simply know the score, men in those countries don't entertain women over 30 years of age. I have actually met some very attractive women who are in that age range and the desperation is all over their face. It is pretty much the reverse of North America.
As I look at my own family and friends, most of the older women are single. A few of my dad's retired friends have moved back to the Caribbean to live the life and date women half their age.

(03-15-2014 05:02 AM)Samseau Wrote:  ^ In what age or time have women been able to marry the man they "really" want? That's not a consequence of their life choices, it's just a consequence of hypergamy itself (always desiring the top % - not possible for everyone to have one of the "top" husbands).

Women have historically been able to come much closer to marrying "the man they really want" than they do now. Why? Aside from the fact that marriage was more of a priority and her expectations were not nearly as great (read: fewer girls feeling entitled to twilight fantasy), there was also the simple fact that women were settling down sooner.

Women are waiting longer now and have expectations that are more heavily divorced from reality. That means a larger number of women missing the boat on getting a decent guy and either getting no man at all or a man vastly inferior to what they could have gotten.

Quote:Women learning to settle for a man is an old theme you often see repeated in literature. But before, if a woman had a drunken romp at her town's bar, there would still be the threat of pregnancy or STD's, let alone possible social humiliation. In today's world none of those consequences exist.

What you say here confirms that there are fewer consequences for women than there have historically been, not zero consequences.
There is a large difference between these two things.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...s-say.html

This crap pisses me off!

(03-15-2014 07:43 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/articl...s-say.html

This crap pisses me off!

Keep in mind the media manipulates people with these stories.* The 23-year-old guy might have slept with the 60-year-old woman, but she's one woman out of hundreds at that age that looked good. That's what they don't say. This is not the average 60-year-old. Hell, it's not the average 40-year-old.

I messed around with an older woman too when I was 19. She was around 39. Even then she was the only MILF in our large circle of friends -- and you can bet they didn't improve in 20 years time.

* This is becoming my mantra on here. I work in media. I have a good mind to expose all of this in a book or something. My advice is when you see an article, look less at the picture, so to speak, and more at the frame. It's not what they're telling. It's why they've chosen it, how they're presenting it and what they're not telling you.

(03-15-2014 06:06 AM)Scuba_Instructor Wrote:  Nothing to add to this ... it's all been said better by those above.

But I'm genuinely bowled over by the level of intelligence on this forum.

This place is the truth!

Me too. If feel like this is some secret society of people who acknowledge what I have always suspected. I've lived a little bit, gone through a divorce, and came away feeling that the old beliefs about men and women persisted thousands of years because they were rooted in truth. Then came the last 40 years where we pretend everybody is the same, women are just men with different plumbing, and it just didn't sit right. Of course the blue pill world told me I was crazy, but I had seen things with my own eyes, and saw how women's behavior doesn't differ much from that described in the bible, or by Schopenhauer, Kipling or Yeats. Petty. Narcissistic. Childlike. And deadly mean. So to finally come here, and see others stories and perspective that concurrently affirm my own beliefs but also deepen and enhance my understanding, is a magnificent thing.

So, thank you, gentlemen.

(03-15-2014 07:06 PM)Excelsior Wrote:  

(03-15-2014 05:02 AM)Samseau Wrote:  ^ In what age or time have women been able to marry the man they "really" want? That's not a consequence of their life choices, it's just a consequence of hypergamy itself (always desiring the top % - not possible for everyone to have one of the "top" husbands).

Women have historically been able to come much closer to marrying "the man they really want" than they do now. Why? Aside from the fact that marriage was more of a priority and her expectations were not nearly as great (read: fewer girls feeling entitled to twilight fantasy), there was also the simple fact that women were settling down sooner.

Just because they were settling down didn't mean they wanted to. Fact is cheating and adultery have been around since men have been talking about women, there have always been women who were unable to get the man they wanted so instead married some other guy.

In theory, the only societies where women can all get an alpha are polygamous ones.

Quote:Women are waiting longer now and have expectations that are more heavily divorced from reality. That means a larger number of women missing the boat on getting a decent guy and either getting no man at all or a man vastly inferior to what they could have gotten.

Quote:Women learning to settle for a man is an old theme you often see repeated in literature. But before, if a woman had a drunken romp at her town's bar, there would still be the threat of pregnancy or STD's, let alone possible social humiliation. In today's world none of those consequences exist.

What you say here confirms that there are fewer consequences for women than there have historically been, not zero consequences.
There is a large difference between these two things.

So basically, their punishment is lower their standards or remain single? That's a non-punishment, if you ask me. And if women are smart about their past (by lying), there's nothing to prevent a cheating whore of a woman from finding even a high quality man to marry before she hits 30.

I maintain what I say - there are really no consequences for women. All they need to do is follow their feelings, the rest of the world be damned.

Ain't it crazy to think about all these myths floating around? Myths such as women are the ones who care about relationship stuff and men don't care. Also Men are responsible for the hook up culture and women are victims of it!!

This thread alone is filled with knowledge that could seriously make our society way better than it is. We men politely argue amongst ourselves to make sense of what's going on and offer solutions to make everyone, including women, way happier at the end of the day. The bottom line is that we care about women more than they care about themselves!!

This forum is something really special man!! This place prevented me from becoming crazy until my inner game became strong enough to understand where the frustration was coming from. Now I'm just laughing at these broads since I can see their painful futures hehe!!