Post: #1

So I pulled the trigger and signed up to a boxing gym for the next month. To get my money's worth I'm planning on going 5 days a week. I currently lift mon-wed-fri.

I was planning on continuing my lifting routine and then hitting the boxing gym afterward. Would anyone recommend against this? I don't want to fuck up a muscle by lifting heavy for an hour and then working on a bag for an hour, but maybe that's an irrational fear.

Basically looking to hear from guys that lift and train martial arts simultaneously and if there's an ideal way of going about it.

Post: #2

Starting out I don't think you'll be able to go 5 days a week - throwing punches for an hour is very taxing on your shoulders!

It's a lot of fun though!

I lift 6x/week and box 3x/wk

Post: #3

If you can, train the weights in the am and box in the pm. When I was training boxing full time I would run early morning, and box in the afternoons 6 days per week. I used to lift weights 2-3 days per week which I would do a couple of hours after running and having a good breakfast, then I'd have lunch and go to the boxing gym.

If you have to lift immediately before boxing, then it's not the end of the world. I wouldn't do an hour though. Maybe do a main lift plus one assistance movement per day (or maybe even just the main lift), otherwise you'll have nothing left for boxing. I actually did this for a couple of months when I was taking a course and made decent progress. It did affect my performance in boxing a little, but nothing major (I noticed I'd get fatigued during punch out drills much easier if I'd pressed for example). Don't lift after boxing though.

Post: #4

It depends on what your goals are, in terms of how you do your lifting and how you box.

Boxing relies primarily on cardio and technique. Having a big chest and shoulders doesn't translate to a stronger jab, as the jab relies on a snapping motion, like a whip. Hitting the bag for long periods of time doesn't translate to cardio when sparring, as sparring requires you to "multi-task", i.e. keeping your arms up, throwing jabs while slipping, ensuring your head is always moving, controlling your breathing, etc.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I am assuming you joined a boxing gym to learn how to box (as opposed to doing boxercise) and thus will be sparring and perhaps fight in some amateur matches. In this scenario, if you are lifting to improve your boxing (increasing muscular endurance, particularly shoulders, strengthening your core, etc), then yes, doing both sports will be good for you.

But if you are lifting as a separate activity, with no intended influence to your boxing, then it may affect your performance in both sports.

For example, for powerlifters, there is an order principle employed in that your first lift is the one which employs the most muscles, and your last few lifts focused on more isolation/accessory movements. So, if you are doing legs, squats would be your first lift, followed by hack squats, then leg press, then leg curls. Thus, when doing squats, you'll have the most energy, allowing for facilitation of strength gains.

If you reverse the order, you'll find that your legs, core and central nervous system are fatigued, thus incapable of matching your previous squat numbers, even though you may have easily done them at your previous workout.

In your case of lifting and boxing, again, I'm going to assume that you are lifting for strength gaining purposes. On a particular day, you workout your shoulders, then hit the boxing gym to hit the bag. You'll find that your form deteriorates quickly because your shoulders have been gassed. Again, boxing is primarily cardio and technique, so if you cannot train your technique, then that day of boxing training is wasted.

What it all comes down to, is what your motivations are for each sport. You want to be a better boxer? Then use your lifting to improve your boxing. You want to be a better athlete? Then use your boxing as a means of improving your endurance, dexterity and fighting skills, and use your lifting as a means to improve strength.

Of course, there are other ways to combine both sports to reach your goals. You just need to define those goals first, then tackle the question of how to mix n' match both sports.

Post: #5

5 days a week of boxing?

Not gonna happen right away. More like 2-3x.

Drop the lifting for first week or two while you start boxing. Just do body weight exercises like push ups, burpees, etc.

In 2 weeks start balancing them out.

Post: #6

I do 4 days a week of weighlifting and 3 days of muay thai, 1 day of BJJ. Prepare to eat. A LOT. Boxing is probably pretty similar cardio to muay thai. It takes a lot of dedication to make more than 3 days a week, both physically and due to time constraints. Try to space them out as much as possible. I have to overlap 2 days on weightlifting / martial arts. Saturday is brutal, because of hours, I have to separate them only by about 3 hours (muay thai first, weightlifting after). When I get home, it's an instant 3+ hour nap before going out on Saturdays. It started affecting my Saturday night energy, so I tried to move some stuff around and compress my weightlifting into 3 days.

Good luck.

Post: #7

You should take a break from doing upper body lifts to begin with. You'll most likely be doing a lot of push ups and sit ups in training, and don't underestimate how taxing on the shoulders simply keeping your hands up can be. If you go in with a fatigued upper body, you're going to have a hard time learning the right position to hold your hands so you won't get the best results from training.

That said, you'd probably be pretty safe keeping your leg routine as is. You probably won't be doing too much leg work, though you'll wish for mercy if you find yourself called upon to do explosive work after a heavy leg day.

Once you've grown accustomed to the new demands on your body, then you might reassess when/how you want to start lifting again. I barely lifted at all while I was fighting, but I was wrestling too, and that could be as taxing on the muscles as any lifting workout. If I lifted, it would only be once or twice a week, and would be planned around what body parts the fight training was missing.

EDIT: In a nutshell, you're just going to need to work out which of your goals you want to prioritise - Boxing or lifting. If you're lifting to get big, it's going to hurt your boxing. If you're boxing to get to competition standard, it's going to hurt your lifting. Just remember the old saying - jack of all trades, master of none.

Post: #8

Yeah, due to work I would have to do them back to back most days. Maybe 1-2 days a week I could do gym AM and boxing PM

I'll start slow. What Mike said, 3 days of boxing, no gym, to start and I'll check myself from there. I've been lifting 3 days a week and doing a pretty fast hike up to Griffith Observatory on my rest days, so my stamina should be pretty good.

Post: #9

In my opinion I would box then lift...you want to be as on your game as you cAn be when sparring- it will be fatiguing enough just doing bag work, focus mitts, skipping rope, sparring...The last thing you want is to be struggling to keep your hands up or to be tight/tired while someone is trying to ko you. If you lift afterwards you may not lift as heavy but you will be able to train till failure and still gain strength. My trainer was old school and he also made us lift differently when boxing. We had to lift fast and explosively no matter what the exercise was because he told us it promoted fast twitch muscle growth, the kind you need for fast punches. The weight was lower but we lifted fast and for high reps. Seemed to work at the time but I'm sure there is more research out now. I'd also take a break from weights until a month or so into boxing because you'll find muscles you didn't know you had after a week of boxing. Have fun!

Post: #10

Lots of good advice in this thread. The place to ask though would be on the rosstraining forums, IMO.

I used to go to a boxing gym but never made it much past beginner training, they required a medical test and an OK from a doctor to let you spar and I didn't have much money or insurance.

I have a few useful tips though that will help you out in the long run.

Most people have weak hands and wrists, and hand fractures are pretty common in boxing gyms, so what you want to do is start incorporating different types of pushups into a daily routine. A few sets of fingertip pushups, pushups on the knuckles, and pushups on the backs of the wrists (any of these can be done on the knees to start with) done every day will keep the hands and wrists from getting beaten up too badly by the heavy bag. It would also be good to start working on the false grip to condition the forearms (besides it being necessary for muscle ups).

I don't think you'll fuck up any muscles by lifting and then boxing right afterwards. If you can handle it, then go for it.

Post: #11

For a few months I lifted 3x a week and did BJJ 4x a week. My body could handle it without problems, but I had already been training BJJ for over a year.

Mike and monster got it right. Box a few times a week, then start adding lifting back in. You will probably get a bunch of nagging injuries if you jump in too quickly. Over training is a buzz word right now with people saying it doesn't exist. And I think they are mostly correct, but you can definitely go too much too fast with combat sports and get some injuries because your body can't take the stress yet.

You can even play around with changing your lifting to a upper/lower split and training upper on your off days from boxing, and lower on boxing days once you can handle it. Check out this routine: http://www.jcdfitness.com/2009/01/lyle-m...g-routine/

Also, make sure you get some attention from the trainers at your boxing gym. A lot of gyms are kind of open gym style, where you go in and train yourself if you are not paying for a trainer. If you show interest, some trainers may work with you. However, if the gym has pros and amateurs, they may ignore you if you don't seem to be interested in competing. You may end up needing to pay a trainer to train you. A trainer 2x a week, and then going in and working on what he showed you 2-3x a week on your own would be fine.

Let us know how it goes. Boxing is fun as hell once you get the hang of it a little bit.

Post: #12

If you have a decent strength base and are fairly competent on the main lifts, I would try and lift 2x or so the first week running at deload levels of around 50-60% of what you are currently doing. You can just go in, stretch, warm up, and do bench and squat one day and OHP and deadlift the other day and maybe 1-2 light accessory work. I'm talking 30-45 minutes max and shouldn't be nearly enough weight to make you sore. It should really be more relaxing and almost more for recovery than anything. See where you are at the second week and either repeat or up to 60-70%. I never liked completely removing lifting as I felt my coordination and technique can start to slip easily.

Post: #13

Ive got you covered. THis guy is a guru on combat sports (as a former fighter, trainer, and coach of upper ecehlon pro boxers)-Ross Enamait.

Rosstraining.com

Rossboxing.com

And to make a long story short-I asked UFC Fighter Forrest Griifn the same thing- Ross has taught this too-just life two days aweek like Wendsday and Saturday-and focus on compound lifts and vary between explosiveness (plyometrics) and maximal strength (Starting Strength type of lifts).

Remember too-you can get strong with body weight (how many people can do one arm pushups, pullups) or one leg squats???

Ross is the boss on combat sports and the related auxiliary training.

Always keep in mind what you truly desire-is it to be able to beat down somebody, or to gain muscle mass-and train accordingly-hard work is a better indicator of success than what tools you use (bodyweight, freeweight, etc. I mix it up for the sake of variety anyway).

Hope this helps-as Iv'e obsessed about this alot over the years. ROss Enamit has alot of free and good content-don't be afriad to experiment on your own to find what's best for you. Good luck!

Post: #14

Words of Wisdom - Training Compilation from Rosstraining.

There were some pretty good quotes in here including my favorite one. Granted, quotes are much different than actually doing the work.





One a side note, anyone got a recommendation for good boxing gloves? I am looking for really solid wrist protection. Wraps are a great help but I'd like to make sure I have the best protection possible. I found this list, but not sure if it is just sales chatter or legit.

http://boxingglovesreviews.com/top-ten-boxing-gloves/

Thanks.

Post: #15

Get gloves with a d ring on the wrist strap so that you can pull them extra tight. Also be sure to have one pair of bag gloves, 12oz or so, and one pair of sparring, 14-16oz depending on your size. Don't use your sparring gloves for anything other than sparring. It breaks down the padding and if you beat the crap out of a heavy bag with them for months they will be much harder on your sparring partners face. Bag and sparring gloves have different padding and are built differently, so make sure to get actual sparring/bag gloves, and not just 14oz bag gloves and use them for sparring.

Post: #16

"Winning" boxing gloves are your best bet. Will set you back about $400, but if your serious about the sport it's well worth it. They are without a doubt the best gloves for protecting your hands.

Post: #17

Fellas, what are you paying for the lifting/boxing gyms? Do you have a trainer for boxing and if no, how do you workout by yourself?

I found a decent boxing gym for $30/month, but they want another $80 for training and I can't swing that. Most of the people there are kids, newbies, and serious amateur fighters. I find myself in between them, skill wise. I can lift alone no problem. All I have to do is print a list of exercises, start with an empty bar, and work my way up. But with boxing, I feel like there needs to be another person, not just for mitt work, but to watch me and correct the stuff I do wrong. Should I look for another gym?

Post: #18

(07-08-2014 01:04 AM)Jdimeo Wrote:  "Winning" boxing gloves are your best bet. Will set you back about $400, but if your serious about the sport it's well worth it. They are without a doubt the best gloves for protecting your hands.

That is sort of the conclusion I came to as well. I hear they are called pillows. I hope they still allow for some toughening of the hands, even though they may be softer. But the pros wear them so I imagine they would have a good idea. I also hear it has incredible customer service and the gloves last. To make that investment, I better be sure. But I imagine in a worse case situation, I'd recover 50 to 75% of the cost.

Post: #19

winning gloves are amazing. best training gloves you can buy.

for fighting nothing beats my cleto reyes though. uncomfortable at first because of the awkward thumb attachment... but nothing makes your opponent feel the snap in your punches more than some reyes'.

best training gloves if you're on a budget and don't want to drop over $100 are the title platinum gloves... amazing quality when you can get em for $60 during certain sales. beats the fuck out of anything in that price range including the fighting sports tri-tech's, ringside IMF gloves, pro-mex's, etc. i even think the quality beats the everlast protex 3's and the title platinum's are like 1/3 of the price or some shit like that.

Post: #20

(07-08-2014 11:38 AM)the chef Wrote:  winning gloves are amazing. best training gloves you can buy.

for fighting nothing beats my cleto reyes though. uncomfortable at first because of the awkward thumb attachment... but nothing makes your opponent feel the snap in your punches more than some reyes'.

best training gloves if you're on a budget and don't want to drop over $100 are the title platinum gloves... amazing quality when you can get em for $60 during certain sales. beats the fuck out of anything in that price range including the fighting sports tri-tech's, ringside IMF gloves, pro-mex's, etc. i even think the quality beats the everlast protex 3's and the title platinum's are like 1/3 of the price or some shit like that.

Thank you for the info.

Usually, I am the value guy - buy the 8 quality for 4 or 5 price.

Since these are my hands, I am just wondering if my usual strategy will work. Or buy the best and know that I didn't sacrifice. Granted, technique is most important and I need to remember that.

The other day, I had my wrists taped after the wraps were put on and it helped.

But 60 bucks sounds a lot better than 400. That and a roll of tape

Thanks.

EDIT: Anyone know about Hayabusa Tokushu Gloves? They seem very popular with MMA fighters, but there is a boxing version as well. Thanks. Here is a review. http://boxingglovesreviews.com/boxing-gl...es-review/

Post: #21

I personally have never trained at a gym that charged serious fighters, be they amatuer or pro, any money to train. Gyms that do charge a small fee do exist, but any gym that charges members more than $20-$30 a month probably is not a "real" boxing gym, though I'm sure there are exceptions. Most young fighters aren't exactly rolling in the dough. Not knocking "boxercise" or gyms that have "boxing class" they're just not for me.

As far as coaches and trainers go, be careful. Good ones that are true teachers and genuinely have your best interests at heart are hard to find. If you find one absorb all you can like a sponge, true boxing teachers are a dying breed.
A good trainer that knows what he's doing wouldn't let a 9 year olds spar other fighters without around 6 months of training, never mind grown men that can actually break bones. More times than I can count I've seen scumbag trainers use very green newbies for cannon fodder for one of their fighters. Remember all it takes to call yourself a boxing trainer is a sling a towel over your shoulder. Lot of phonies out there. My trainer for instance, makes his money by taking a small portion of his fighters purses, that he has trained for years.

As far as gloves go, like myself and a few others have said, for sparring (16oz) Winnning is by far the best. It is correct to call them pillows as they really protect your hands well and are comfortable. They also are a lot softer to hit/get hit with. (Know from experience) It's also true they have fantastic customer service. If your buying from the states, winning-usa.com puts you in contact with the one guy himself who runs their US operations from California. (Winning is based in Japan). He types in broken english but is understandable.

Cleto Reyes mentioned above are also top notch gloves. They're known as punchers gloves, and for good reason. Extremely hard, tightly packed leather. Great for pro fights but good luck getting another fighter or his trainer to let you use them sparring (even 16 oz)

Another great option is Grant. They offer better protection and have less of a punchers reputation than Reyes, and go for about $220. The thumbs are much different though and take some getting used to. Everlast, in my opinion, does not make durable equipment and should be avoided.

Somewhat new the the forum. I have extensive knowledge on the subject so feel free to ask questions/pm.

-jimmy

Post: #22

Box first, then lift.
Lifting before boxing increases injury chances because your muscles will be worn and form diminished.
(Some suggest the other order for a warm up or whatever, but I disagree, from personal experience. After a heavy lift I did not have the motor control to safely throw punches or kicks.)

Maintain your routine and your body will adjust eventually.
When I was kick boxing 3x a week I was still lifting daily and running 5 miles a day.

Just don't expect that from day one... gotta let your cardio catch up, lung capacity, etc.

As for boxing...
Do not be afraid to ask questions... make sure you're properly wrapping your hands and wrist, etc. The gym is about to be your second home, you should be comfy with these people.
Also, get sparring as soon as they let you.
We always ended our sessions with 15-25 minutes of sparring... its an insane workout and actually applying what you're learning will teach you a million more lessons than punching an extra heavy pillow ever could.


Also, get talking and make sure your gym has people fighting competitively at some level. McDojos and McGyms are only good for McSkills and McConfidence.

Good luck man, you're gonna love it.

Post: #23

I've trained in gloves from twins, cleto reyes, grant, and winning. None have really solved my hand problems (nor has any kind of hand training, or extra care when wrapping), but grant and winning make things a bit less painful. I actually prefer to train in reyes though, because while I get a little more pain, I have less actual serious hand problems. I think it's because training in the 'pillow' like gloves allows me to get sloppy and reduce my accuracy. In reyes I feel like I land more exactly with the part of the hand I should, and this reduces the problems. This is the reason I also like to do my bag and pad work in fairly light gloves too.

Twins aren't a bad cheap option too.

Post: #24

i've tried hayabusa gloves and didn't like em. something felt off in them like my palms were swimming in the middle while everything else wasn't. i would stay away from them and pick gloves from companies that have been catering to boxers specifically. brands like reyes, winning, grant for the "luxury" brands, and ringside, title, lonsdale, fighting sports, rival etc. for the "economy class."

like i've said before though, i have yet to see any type of gloves better than the title platinum lace ups in the "economy class." get em in 16 oz. and you can pretty much use them for everything and should last you years.

Post: #25

For hands, the best I've ever used for hitting the bag are Combat Sports International Gel Bag Gloves.

http://www.amazon.com/Combat-Sports-Boxi...B006K3ZKN8