Post: #326

(04-26-2015 02:11 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  I'm still a boxing n00b, but if anyone is interested in the answer for "can I lift heavy and box?" I think the answer is a resounding yes, and I'd heartily recommend both.

I've been doing 3x weekly boxing sessions for my last powerlifting training cycle (8 weeks). I lost 2.5kg, look significantly leaner and my powerlifting total went up by 20kg. My fitness level is a world apart from where I was. I did my powerlifting meet this morning (meet went from 9:30am to 1pm) and went straight to boxing conditioning class afterwards. Felt great!

I second this.
The last few months I've also had 3 weekly Kickboxing/MMA sessions and been lifting 5-6 days a week.

I'm still a "newbie" but I'm improving quite well both with my lifting and fighting.
Feel better than ever.

I eat like a horse and I just need to make sure that I'm getting 8 hours of sleep every night and I'm ready to rock next morning.

I dig this combination with lifting weights and martial arts.
Works good for me.

Post: #327

(04-26-2015 11:49 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  Floyd Mayweather Sr. had PBF do his roadwork wearing combat boots when he was training him, and that's dumb as fuck. Floyd Sr. is still one of the best boxing trainers out there, but he makes mistakes and is misinformed about certain topics, just like everyone else.

A lot of athletes succeed inspire of their training methods, not because of them.

Rio, why is it bad to do roadwork wearing combat boots?

Post: #328

(04-27-2015 05:16 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(04-26-2015 11:49 PM)RioNomad Wrote:  Floyd Mayweather Sr. had PBF do his roadwork wearing combat boots when he was training him, and that's dumb as fuck. Floyd Sr. is still one of the best boxing trainers out there, but he makes mistakes and is misinformed about certain topics, just like everyone else.

A lot of athletes succeed inspire of their training methods, not because of them.

Rio, why is it bad to do roadwork wearing combat boots?

You have to run differently in boots. The part of the foot that strikes the ground is different from what you might be used to running barefoot, or in trainers. The point of initial impact is further back toward the heel, and the whole foot strike in general is flatter, and more jarring. Running in boots is more likely to give you knee problems, and is something that is probably best saved for occasional practice by those who actually have to run in boots for a living.

Post: #329

Lifting weights can compliment boxing training, although it's important to remember that if you are lifting 3x/week and boxing (sparring, training to compete) 3x or less, then you are a weightlifter first and a boxer second.

The two are compatible, and done intelligently complimentary, but when I was boxing, if I had to drop anything either for lack of time or recovery, weights were always the first thing to go. 2x weightlifting/week if you are training seriously as a boxer is more than enough in most cases, to add strength and stay in your weight class. 3x or so/week may be useful in some cases, if you're going up a weightclass, or so weak at the weight to the extent it is causing you problems.

Post: #330

Well the training aspect might be overcome with higher work capacity and fitness, smarter programming, more time, more sleep, more foods etc. but what you cannot fix is simply bodyweight and build, appropriately adapted to the given sport. A weightlifter or powerlifter at a certain height (and reach) will be way heavier than a boxer. I'm kinda on the light side for a 5'7" powerlifter but a boxer my weight will usually be 5'10".

Post: #331

(04-27-2015 09:32 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Well the training aspect might be overcome with higher work capacity and fitness, smarter programming, more time, more sleep, more foods etc. but what you cannot fix is simply bodyweight and build, appropriately adapted to the given sport. A weightlifter or powerlifter at a certain height (and reach) will be way heavier than a boxer. I'm kinda on the light side for a 5'7" powerlifter but a boxer my weight will usually be 5'10".

What's your walking around weight and competition weight?

Post: #332

You can definitely do both to a reasonable level (lots of pro boxers with pretty impressive numbers), but from a boxing perspective, strength work is a very small piece of the puzzle. I've always done it simply because I really enjoy it (and also for vanity reasons), but the effects on boxing performance are pretty small compared to the benefits of other conditioning work, such as distance running (I hate doing it, it's no fun, but it works extremely well and has a noticeable impact on boxing performance).

Post: #333

I don't know much about boxing, but I used to to Tae Kwon Do competitively for a few years. I think that I would have been far better if I had been training deadlift, squat and bench on top of all the striking practice I was doing. The guys who consistently placed top were often there because of a combination of brute strength and skill. I was a part of the lighter division so I could get away on just skill, but I think a good weight program can be extremely helpful for all sports (boxing including).

Post: #334

Getting stronger can definitely improve performance.

But, we have to find the proper balance between strength, skill, speed, stamina, coordination, balance, etc.

What hurts us is being deficient in one of these areas:

Strength without skill is a weakness.

Speed without stamina is a weakness.

Lack of balance is a weakness.

Lack of flexibility is a weakness.

Work to eliminate your weaknesses.

Find the balance between all these things.

* Don't forget about proper diet and proper rest *

-----

In boxing, it's not always the stronger man who wins, its usually the more complete boxer who wins.

Post: #335

(04-27-2015 10:51 AM)viajero Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 09:32 AM)StrikeBack Wrote:  Well the training aspect might be overcome with higher work capacity and fitness, smarter programming, more time, more sleep, more foods etc. but what you cannot fix is simply bodyweight and build, appropriately adapted to the given sport. A weightlifter or powerlifter at a certain height (and reach) will be way heavier than a boxer. I'm kinda on the light side for a 5'7" powerlifter but a boxer my weight will usually be 5'10".

What's your walking around weight and competition weight?

72-73kg or about 160lb, same in competition (I don't cut for powerlifting). My two boxing instructors at my club are both about 5'10" at similar weight.

A fighter should get stronger through weight training. A mate of mine does BJJ/MMA and as he gets to a 200kg (440lb) deadlift 1RM, most people in his club struggle with his strength. However, for a powerlifter at that weight (he's about 80ish kg) it's a newbie deadlift, and for his height he should be at least a 93kg or 205lb class lifter.

My point (which I didn't make clear) was that you can't really try to be a high level competitor in both lifting and boxing. They demand rather different builds.

Post: #336

^ Yeah definitely can't usually excel in both at the same time. Simply the amount of muscle needed for most people to be able to lift heavy weights is going to be a problem for boxing as it requires more oxygen. There are several fighters that can put up pretty decent numbers though - Mosley was benching over 350 and squatting 500 before he stopped the weight training, and Vic Darchinyan benches well into the 300s at a walk around weight somewhere around 130-140.

Also, I don't know much about MMA but I would assume that MMA fighters should 100% be doing strength work as the grappling aspect requires a lot more strength than boxing does (it's quite possible to reach the elite level in boxing without ever touching a weight, I would think in MMA not so much).

Post: #337

Gio, wise words as always. What kind of rudimentary program would you recommend for someone who wishes to combine the two but is not an absolute rookie at working out and boxing?

Post: #338

Thinking about sparring again. It has been months since my first time and I think I have a better handle on what to expect and hopefully can control the urge to go into Godzilla mode.

I was wondering what do some of you guys like to open the sparring match with? A jab? A combo? Let the other guy punch first to feel him out? I know everyone is different but I am curious. Also, no situation is ever the same so I imagine you don't want hard and fast rules.

A former champ told me today. Open with a jab. Just be first. You can jab am entire round and still do damage. Just go up and down on the guy. To the face and to the body.

Any insights would be appreciated. Thanks.

Post: #339

I usually open with a jab and throw first also. I want to be the aggressor when possible.

Post: #340

With a new sparring partner there will usually be an initial period where we're feeling each other out kind of thing. At this stage I'm looking for any potential opening or tells that they are about to throw the jab, so that I can counter later on. I try not to give a lot away myself, but might throw a few feints and some lazy jabs to both see how he reacts, and measure distance. I'm not trying to come out aggressive, but I'm a rangey counter puncher though so it will be different for me than others.

Post: #341

A big lead right hand over the top tends to set the tone

Seriously though, I think it depends what you're trying to work on, and what's in front of you. Generally your opponent is expecting you to come out and jab, just as you're expecting him to do the same.

Where possible, I like to get in my opponents head from the start. So I quite often come out, fake the jab or the right, or put my head somewhere inviting, then look to make my opponent miss with his first shot. Or alternatively, I'll try to get him to jab in response to something I do and immediately counter, so either jab on jab, or a pat down of his jab with my right hand, and an immediate follow through with the right hand.

I generally like to set the tone, that I know what my opponent is going to do, and I'm going to make him miss and he's going to get hit every time he does something.

Often it's as much about what you don't do as what you do do.

Post: #342

Nice little video of Roy working with Zab Judah at 2.20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6YuSODug8

Coiling like that keeps you out the way, and then releasing from the coil with the right hook / overhand right is a great way to get big power on the inside, when you haven't got the range to step in with it and really sit down on it.

Post: #343

(05-27-2015 02:59 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Nice little video of Roy working with Zab Judah at 2.20:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX6YuSODug8

Coiling like that keeps you out the way, and then releasing from the coil with the right hook / overhand right is a great way to get big power on the inside, when you haven't got the range to step in with it and really sit down on it.

This is great. I also liked a video you posted awhile back of Lennox Lewis showing Chris Eubank how to throw a power jab from the coil.

Post: #344

What are some good resources for DAY 1 beginner boxers?

I've never punched a bag before. Seriously. I did tae kwon do for a long time and that has been my only martial arts exposure.

I started going to a gym that has a full boxing area, and would like to start doing some work in there. They offer lessons but it is expensive AND I have a nagging wrist injury, so I would much rather spend 10-15 minutes a day in there doing some fundamentals before any serious investment. Any tips?

Post: #345

(06-02-2015 10:36 PM)redbeard Wrote:  What are some good resources for DAY 1 beginner boxers?

I've never punched a bag before. Seriously. I did tae kwon do for a long time and that has been my only martial arts exposure.

I started going to a gym that has a full boxing area, and would like to start doing some work in there. They offer lessons but it is expensive AND I have a nagging wrist injury, so I would much rather spend 10-15 minutes a day in there doing some fundamentals before any serious investment. Any tips?

There are some really knowledgeable posters on here, so I would be curious also.

This helped me when I was starting out.





If I can throw in a couple of thoughts.

1) Heavy bag is great to bang and get aggression out, but some guys I notice get so caught up with pounding it they lose sight of technique. They don't stay on their toes, they don't bring the gloves back to the proper guard position.
2) I don't think you need to crush bag to get valuable training from it
3) Keep moving around the bag, I have seen (and have done) guys stand in one spot.

Just a few thoughts. I have been at this for only about 9 months now. So I am still learning, but these are the pieces I have picked up.

Post: #346

I appreciate it. We have some good minds here, which is why I follow this thread, and would like to see if they can help me with the raw basics.

I guess I should buy some cheap gloves? I really don't know.

When I got into weightlifting...basketball...swimming....I always had buddies who did it that could guide me and show me the ropes. With boxing...I'm on square zero.

Post: #347

redbeard, you can buy bag gloves just to bang the bag. But spend the 5 to 10 bucks and buy some wraps. It will protect your hands and if you wrap low enough, you should be able to add some protection to your wrists. I am speculating on that. Not an expert here.

But when I wrap the extra material just goes around my wrists.

You want to wrap it tight to protect you but not so much you cut off blood flow

Some may say you don't need wraps for heavy bag work, but you just need to hit it wrong once and wish you had protected your hands better.

But if you know you are not going to hit it hard, maybe you don't need wraps. Those boxing classes I have seen don't make the students wrap their hands. But I am just trying to look out for your wrists and hands.

Post: #348

My boxing coach (Aus middle weight champion) doesn't allow us to hit any bag for at least the first month while we learn the basic punches. Then we'd be doing mitt work for another month before we could hit bags for conditioning. In fact I started basic sparring before I got to hit any bag. I started in Feb and I only just got to do some heavy bags with my coach in recent weeks.

The newbies here who got into heavy bags too soon are very easy to spar against. They swing wildly and heavily (and miss) for the first 30s then they're out of juice.

Post: #349

Strikeback's way of learning is excellent, if you are looking to take it seriously as a sport. Obviously if you are just looking to work a bag your gym has for conditioning, then it may not be an option to you.

Firstly, buy hand wraps. Pepper Roach shows the best method I think. Here's a video:






Secondly, I would advise just watching youtube videos on how to punch. Start with the basic straight punches, and shadow box for a while before hitting anything hard. Try to make sure you are extending properly, and that at the end of the strike your wrist is in the correct position.

Thirdly, I'd actually recommend buying MMA gloves rather than boxing gloves. Boxing gloves have a lot of wrist support that can give you a false impression of mechanical integrity, when actually you could be doing some damage to your wrists. If you don't know how to punch properly then you are best starting light with unsupportive gloves that will give you immediate feedback if you are fucking up.

Post: #350

The the best place to start on youtube would probably be the Title boxing series with Russ Anber and a young David Lemieux.