Post: #176

^

Enough man.

I am finding china frustrating at the moment, but let's not fall into racebaiting or anything. This is an intel thread for men who want to do well in Shenzhen. Like I said earlier, let's not pollute it with things that have nothing to do with helping men succeed in Shenzhen.

I really want to make it clear that China newbies (such as myself) need to make sure they get everything in writing! DO NOT GIVE THE LANDLORD A CENT, unless she/he gives you a receipt. This is something I do even in America. People will try to hustle you and that goes double for people who think that you don't understand what is going on.

I have my manager at work on speed dial because she's bilingual and very helpful. She has gone out of her way to pick up her phone at super late hours when she should be sleeping. Technically, that isn't even her job, but she does it anyway because she understands that I'm a foreigner trying to do well in China, so I'm really not going to hear any talk of the chinese being a manipulative group of people hellbent on destroying everything.

Really, there are a billion counter examples to that point. Yes, I got pissed off last night. Yes, I don't trust my landlady, but I'm not going to play into the idea that everything is like that. That simply isn't a fair (or realistic) view of a country of 1.2 billion people.

Post: #177

That is the right attitude to have Fortis! I hope you will keep that same attitude as the months and eventually years go by while still being in China. From what I've seen, quite a few of those who have been teaching in China, after a while, say 2-3 years become bitter, cynical and jaded about China. Not all mind you, but enough do.

It's great to have your company and your manager rooting for you. That's key!

Were you able to if not find out the reason, at least get an explanation from your manager as to the shady behaviour of your landlady the other day? That'd be interesting to know.

Don't worry about "polluting" this thread with the details of day to day living in China. This is at to me, and many others contemplating China as a possible potential future location to relocate, a very important part that very often doesn't get much covered in here. So please, do post about those frustrations that you encounter on your day to day routine in China.

Post: #178

Well, that is the thing: my manager spoke to the landlord and not the landlady. My manager says the landlord seems like a good man. I'll take her word for it; she is actually one of the "rare" Shenzhen natives!

Something about that 45 minute argument in my apartment and a few other things have shown me she is not to be trusted:

THE SECOND I mentioned the fa piao she started throwing extra requirements at me. I asked my manager about it, and she agrees that many landlords don't like doing the Fa piao because they have to report their earnings. It's a little sketchy that this woman is so keen on not reporting what she's making. She's clearly got money; the building is nice, my apartment is furnished properly. I really don't understand why she's saying, "If you want me to do the fa piao, then I want you to go register with the local police so that I feel safe" I already put 2 months rent in her pocket, showed her my passport with the visa stamp and paid up front in cash.

My behavior has not be that of a marauding, rapacious foreigner. Yes, i'm Black. I get it. Many people in Shenzhen are not used to dealing with Black people and may have a poor view of us, but her behavior is just silly.

My agent also tried to screw me a bit. He was supposed to pick me up at my apartment to take me to the police station. He started whining about not wanting to pick me up. Motherfucker, I paid you and your partner 1000 each to help me find my spot. Keep in mind that the average Shenzhen resident survives on 6,000 yuan! I paid 1/6th of his monthly living expenses and he tries to treat me like I haven't done shit for him. I had my manager call him and tell him to pick me up and drive me there. According to my manager what he tried to pull on me was very unprofessional.

Today, unfortunately I was not able to get the police registration process done because I had to give my passport to the visa office to be migrated from a single entry visa to a multiple entry visa. The police officer at the station told me to come back when I have my original passport in hand. I'm fine with that, though. I have been put through the ringer with all the stuff I have had to do recently. It's nice to sit on my couch and type away on my laptop.

Today I have a three day weekend.

First order of business: buy some bedsheets and some blinds for my apartment. I forgot to buy bedsheets so I slept on the couch lol. College days are back. I did some wandering around a bit after hitting up the police station. I timed the walk from my building to the metro station: 5 minutes with another view minutes on the metro.

Post: #179

(06-17-2015 10:18 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I really don't understand why she's saying, "If you want me to do the fa piao, then I want you to go register with the local police so that I feel safe" I already put 2 months rent in her pocket, showed her my passport with the visa stamp and paid up front in cash.

My behavior has not be that of a marauding, rapacious foreigner. Yes, i'm Black. I get it. Many people in Shenzhen are not used to dealing with Black people and may have a poor view of us, but her behavior is just silly.

I've registered with the police every apartment that I've rented. You chose to move to the PRC and now you get to deal with a lot of stupid shit in your everyday life. Do the benefits outweigh the annoying things like going to the police department? Only you can answer that.

The unprofessional 中介 middleman you used to find the apartment found you an apartment. What would you have done without him?

Look at it this way: 10 years ago everything you are angry about was worse and yet people made it work. Imagine not being able to travel to third tier cities and below because there aren't any hotels that by law could accept foreigners or not being able to rent most apartments at all.

Shenzhen is a nice place. I'm shocked people pay 4000 to live in China but I realize prices have been creeping up. Enjoy it. If not, leave for greener pastures. You won't change a billion and a half people's minds.

Post: #180

Uh, what? Did you not read a thing I wrote?

He was SUPPOSED (keyword) to take me the police station and then changed his mind last minute. How is that professional? So fucking what if he found me the apartment? I paid him for his services which includes this other stuff. He didn't do it out of the kindness of his heart, so I'm holding him accountable for his responsibilities as an agent. He was trying to shirk his duties. That's like you ordering a meal at a restaurant and then the chef says, "sorry bro. I don't feel like cooking hamburgers for you but thanks for the money!" I paid him for a job and he tried to not complete the job. I'm pretty sure that doesn't fly in Shenzhen or any other city in China--and it didn't fly this time around. His ass got called out.

Even my native Shenzhen manager said my agent was not being professional and had to call him and tell him to do his job. How is his behaviour not unprofessional? Tell me that? I'm not mad at China for the actions of one man, if that's what your trying to say. I'm perturbed with the behaviours of some of these people, but I'm very much enjoying my stay in Shenzhen, so don't try and spin it like all I'm doing is complaining. Plus, other men have said similar things to me about their experiences in this thread.

I'm just reporting what happened to me to the other men. Don't try and pin it on me Like i'm causing all these issues. Also, I have said many good things about Shenzhen. I am enjoying my stay here beyond the silly stuff. As i said, I find her behavior irritating, but I am doing what she asks. The police check was NOT brought up UNTIL i asked for the fa piao. That is why I said it was sort of odd.

Where did I say I'm trying to change this country? I came here because it is different from where I'm from. If I wanted to fuck around with other Americans I would have stayed in America, so don't try and spin it like I'm trying to change China. I'm not sure where you're getting these ideas from, but you should read before you post.

Post: #181

I'm sorry if my thoughts come across as race-baiting.

I'll follow by saying that I absolutely love living in Beijing and had a lot of good times in Tianjin (even though I did not love the experience).

I have a lot of Chinese friends. I have foreign friend, but I socialize mainly with Chinese people, male and female.

For me, it's a simple matter of finding the diamond in the rough, a good friend, who is the exception to the horrible examples of human behavior I see every day. (To be honest, I always had to work much harder to find good friend in North America than I do in Beijing. Tianjin was also difficult).

And I do find them. I love my friends here and do find some really cool people. Some of them have travelled the world. Others have lived in China their whole lives, but are still great people.

So, I absolutely do believe in exception.

However, if you are buckling down to get a new apartment or get a new job or engage in any sort of business, you need to assume that everyone is looking for an opportunity to screw you.

This is the only way to protect yourself.

My words may seem harsh, but I think that they are necessary.

In the West, people might do horrible things if they thought that they could get away with them and sometimes they do. We've all met cheats and habitual liars.

My main point is that China has no history of sophistication or honour.

So, do not expect them to behave in an honourable manner. Because 99% of the time, this is a dangerous assumption to make.

However, I do not wish to derail this excellent thread further, so if anyone wants to discuss this, please PM me.

Stay strong Fortis. You've had a couple tough weeks, but you'll make it.

The most important thing is a positive attitude and building a life that makes it all worth it, despite the difficulties. That's what's been working for me.

Post: #182

Hah, Thanks suits.

Honestly, I hate to give the impression that these past two weeks have been all doom and gloom. I've had A LOT of fun. Lots of new food, drinks and sights to be seen in this neck of the woods. One of the best things about Shenzhen is that you have Chinese people from all over China, so there are so many different restaurants to choose from and the prices are good if you have an eye for prices (as Global said in the original post). It goes without saying that the women are quite hot too. I'm meeting up with a girl for a date tonight. I may also meet up with another girl tomorrow (the one from last week) to try and sell that deal.

It's slow going right now because I haven't fully adjusted to my new surroundings, but I think things will pick up in the upcoming weeks.

Post: #183

I've been a little negative recently, but let's talk about some positive shit that happened today!

My boss offered to take me to Ikea and show me around town. I got some new bed sheets and a ton of supplies that I needed. I was able to put it on my international banking card as a credit expense and it only came out to $65. Even my manager commented with, "wow, that cheap? this is madness." I can now sleep in my new bed. My boss treated me to dinner and told me to "pay it forward to another expat." He's a good guy.

I went on the date with that chick. I was fun. I went a little out of my way to meet her, but it was worth it. Cool chick. I told her a little bit about myself and she really opened up. had a lot of touching going on, but I couldn't finish that night. she lives with the landlady of the building and told me she couldn't bring me up. She also has work tomorrow. Block after block. Whatever. She did pay for her own coffee. I told her that I'm having issues communicating with my landlady and she said she would translate for me. I'm a bit suprised at that. Not complaining. She wants to come over to see my new place soon. I can close this chick. Meeting up with the chick from sunday tomorrow and most likely sealing the deal.

I explored my neighborhood and found some bad ass places: a bar within walking distance, a coffee shop with GREAT coffee for low prices, a supermarket literally next door and a bbq restaurant around the corner. A lot of great, cheap dates to be had in this area. My boss is quite impressed with where I am right now. He says it is a great place for a first year chinese expat. Another staff member even asked me for the agent's contact info. This staff member has been in china for a few years and speaks mandarin so he should be fine. Still, I warned him about my experiences.

I hit up that bar within walking distance and had a great time. I walk in and I see two guys playing an Alice In Chains cover. Afterwards, I talk to them and they invite me over for drinks. Turns out they're from the Czech Republic and huge fans of metal. They give me a card for a free round of beers for me and friends when I come back to the bar. Winning. I will adjust well to Shenzhen given time. My boss told me that he thinks I have a good attitude towards Shenzhen and that I'm handling my situation much better than the average expat. This is a man who has been in China for 10 years, so I am humbled that he would say that about me.

Post: #184

Good shit, Fortis. I once considered getting a TEFL job but didn't want to be discriminated against being black and all and have a worthless cert collecting dust. Also costs $$$$ to pick one up. And not having a bachelor degree limits my options pretty heavily. Anywho, I was possibly looking to relocate to China, given you're making it there but rather nervous about that

Post: #185

I actually got my TEFL through my job. They paid for the training, but it's only a 40 hour tefl. If I finish training (and some additional stuff) I can get a 120 hour tefl.

But I do have a college degree. Correct me if I"m wrong, but I don't think suits has finished his college degree yet but he teaches english. Ask him about that (if that is true).

Funny shit from tonight:

I invite hubei girl over for a second night. I go in thinking I have it in the bag, but when she arrives I can sense something is off. I can't put my finger on it, but she was quite awkward. her english isn't great, but something about her struck me as mechanical and practice. A certain Je ne sais quoi that I expect from human beings was lacking. Anyway, we got to the coffee house near my apartment and she buys coffee for me. That was a nice gesture.

We drink the coffee and go up to my apartment. I'm pretty happy at this point, because in the states if you have a girl in your house she's pretty much trying to get banged.

I have the perfect excuse, too: "come check out my new apartment!"

We get up there and I put on some music. Mostly 90s grunge: alice in chains, nirvana, Smashing pumpkins and that other stuff. We talk for a bit. I'm touching her hair and her body and she doesn't seem to mind. I go in for the kiss and She rejects it. I shrug it off and we start talking some more. we're touching again and her body language opens up a bit more. At some point she just comes out with it and says, "I don't know how to say this, but I came over as a friend."

I'm like, "ok."

We make lame idle talk for another 5 minutes and then she leaves. Thank god. One thing I have to get used to is the people trying to befriend me because I'm exotic and different. gotta be a way to screen for chinese chicks who are just looking to be seen with an American.

Post: #186

What's the best way to screen these girls u think

Post: #187

I haven't a clue, really. It's tough to figure out whether they're shy or just wasting my time.

Post: #188

Fortis,
Is that Hubei girl worth it, looks and personality wise? If yes, play the long game. If not, next her.
I wouldn't be surprised if you could close the deal and get the bang the 2nd or 3rd time you bring her to your pad.

Nitro,
Even without a BA/college degree, you can still get a decent teaching job in China. Granted you might not end up in a desirable location like SZ, GZ, Chengdu, Beijing or Shanghai at first, more like in a 2nd tier city (and by Chinese standards, even a 2nd tier is a city of around 5M people!). But if you stick with it, get some China and teaching in China experience for a year, then you could get better gigs in more desirable locations your 2nd year onward.

Post: #189

Thanks on the intel guys ^^ I'm still debating whether I should go the TEFL route or just stack up all I can to live 6-12 months in either DF or the Philippines somewhere while I work on my business there.

Post: #190

Vacancier,

Definitely not worth it for me. She's cool personality wise, but I'm not fucking with a girl who denies my kiss at my apartment. Just seemed like a big cock tease and she wasn't even that hot. I could go outside and spit and It would land on a girl who is WB status. There are 15 million people in and around this city. Oneitis isn't an option.

----

Funny report:

I went out after Hubei girl wasted my time. One of my friends was playing a show at a local bar. After the show, I used my free drinks card and got us a beer tower as we sat and joked around. These Chinese dudes came up and started hanging out as well. They bought another beer tower. and we got pretty rowdy. These men can drink. They were impressed with my ability to knock back full drinks with reckless abandon. They began to order a ton of food as well. They made me and my friend eat about 20 chicken wings each. It was pretty insane. I need to find a gym fast or I am going to become a fatso if the Chinese continue to do insane shit like this to me.

I got pulled over to another table and the guys started asking me about Romance of the three kingdoms. I actually know a fair bit about the story because of Dynasty warriors 3. They were quite impressed with my knowledge of Cao Cao and his family tree.

No bangs that night, but it was cool to meet up with another expat, patronize live music and get a feel for how the local men party.

Post: #191

(06-19-2015 09:04 AM)Fortis Wrote:  We make lame idle talk for another 5 minutes and then she leaves. Thank god. One thing I have to get used to is the people trying to befriend me because I'm exotic and different. gotta be a way to screen for chinese chicks who are just looking to be seen with an American.

Wow so even with SZ being right next to HK and GZ, there's still some foreigner exotic factor.

Post: #192

(06-19-2015 09:25 AM)worldtraveler3 Wrote:  What's the best way to screen these girls u think

By being clear and direct from the tip-off. I've posted before (currently in China which I've lived in for almost 3 years, leaving in a few days for the summer) that a solid player can bat .750 in his home turf - not always a guarantee but extremely respectable numbers.

The girls that have come over and not fucked were girls I gave no indication that I wanted to fuck them - I gave off a 'let's be friends' vibe (men and women are friends in China - and yes, 90% of the time he got friendzoned). The girls that have came over and fucked I dropped game and innuendo and double entendres and hints to sex (in a culture where discussion of sex is still considered taboo) and still came anyways. If you're attracted to her, tell her, and yeah you might put off a girl you really like with an overly sexual vibe, but ask yourself this; if she's put off by you going for what you (and likely she to a degree) want, is she what you want?

Not saying be overt and obnoxious and - frankly 'American' with it (stereotype or not...4 of the 5 stupidest foreigners I've met - of several hundred - in China were American) - but make it clear what you're after, and if she doesn't bite on it then next her. No shortage of girls who like foreigners here...but dating them and keeping them around, that's another 5-6 paragraphs of situational ethics entirely.

==

Suits is right...any manner of underhanded, deceptive, manipulative bullshit Chinese people can pull on you to extract a little more cash from you, they WILL do. China has two classes of people; poor people (living on 2000-3000 a month) who actually need the money, and the nouveaux-riche, who are all about the 'Greed is good!' style of living (landlord shows you a place and quotes you, a foreigner, 3000 a month rent...a Chinese person he'd say 2300 a month. Why? Because they're likely rich and because they can). Exceptions exist of course - but you really want to get fucked over because you believe in exceptions?

Keep your guard up.

Post: #193

^ I appreciate the real talk on both sides of the debate. Thanks for that.

I'm not here to keep girls around or anything. I want to focus on banging them. I can worry about keeping them around later.

I am going to be more polarizing in my interactions with Chinese girls. I have a girl coming over this week and I made sure to be a bit "pushier" in my interactions with her on wechat. I'm playing to win, not to make friends.

Also, I met up with Jetlagged in cocopark. He's a good guy. I really wish I had gotten to spend more time with him. We talked about a multitude of things. He's got his shit together and seems intent on getting better in a number of ways. It was time wellspent with a quality RVF member. I look forward to seeing him again.

we were hanging with a group of cute chinese girls. They only had eyes for him, though. I'm a jealous fucker, so I left. Nah, I had to catch the metro. I'm expecting him to post something about +1 in the "I just got laid" thread. I was cracking jokes and everything, but these girls were way more interested in him. Play on playa!

Post: #194

(06-20-2015 12:42 PM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ I appreciate the real talk on both sides of the debate. Thanks for that.

I'm not here to keep girls around or anything. I want to focus on banging them. I can worry about keeping them around later.

I am going to be more polarizing in my interactions with Chinese girls. I have a girl coming over this week and I made sure to be a bit "pushier" in my interactions with her on wechat. I'm playing to win, not to make friends.

Also, I met up with Jetlagged in cocopark. He's a good guy. I really wish I had gotten to spend more time with him. We talked about a multitude of things. He's got his shit together and seems intent on getting better in a number of ways. It was time wellspent with a quality RVF member. I look forward to seeing him again.

we were hanging with a group of cute chinese girls. They only had eyes for him, though. I'm a jealous fucker, so I left. Nah, I had to catch the metro. I'm expecting him to post something about +1 in the "I just got laid" thread. I was cracking jokes and everything, but these girls were way more interested in him. Play on playa!

I will probably try to come back sometime, shenzhen is pretty laid back for a city of 10 mill and the hotel has great logistics. Couldn't close on the 3 girls but they were fun regardless. Needed to venue change and isolate the cuter one but they wanted to leave.

Still upset I fell asleep at midnight.

Had a good time though man. Going to tack some sun at the pool and unpale myself.

By the way I'm either sick or have zinc dry mouth, wtf.


those girls weren't so all over me! You had some play!

Post: #195

Which hotel did u stay in sz

Post: #196

Been a little while since I last posted

things with the apartment are cooled off finally. I’ve just been calling different people and letting them know China hasn’t killed me—yet.

let’s talk a little bit about online dating on the mainland.

Tinder and TanTan but seem like they’re the best way to hunt for dates online. The quality of the women on Tantan is rather high compared to other dating apps. It is a bit a surprisingly. The hardest barrier to entry on Tantan is language, though! Most of the girls speak a smatter of english because they’re relatively young, but they’re hesitant to come meet me in person because we won’t be able to talk without using we chat translate the entire time.

I learned how to say:

Ni de dian hua hao ma shi duo shao?
(what is your phone number)

from one of my male students, ha. He’s a 20 year old rich kid who works for his cousin’s company. He’s very interesting, but seems to have a bit of a bad reputation amongst the full time staff. I didn’t bother asking why, but I could wager a guess as to why. He gives me something of a player vibe. Not a strong player vibe, but definitely may have some game based on his looks, dress and vibe. Students can and definitely do hook up here and I think he may have banged through a few of the girls or something.

He invited a girl, me and another staffer to get dinner last night at this Dongbay restaurant. He was a pretty gracious host, but one of the full-time staffers invited another guy along. Turns out this guy HATES the player student. So they got into a full-on debate about the chinese education system. It was pretty interesting, but you could feel the tension rising at the table. Luckily, the girl was able to cool the situation a bit by ordering more food and changing the topic.

I wasn’t sure what to make of the dinner. I got the impression that the player wanted to hang out with the girl, but he didn’t want it to be a “date,” so he made it into a dinner gathering so that he could go more indirect. Game recognised.

I say this, because my co-worker and I were taking one train home, and Player and the girl were going on another train, so while we’re standing there talking, he makes a sly joke when the girl and my co-worker aren't listening to us:

Player: Fortis, enjoy your time with your co-worker. *smirk*

Fortis: Ha, enjoy your time with the girl. Tell me all about it in full detail later. *laughing*

Player: OH, I will. *smirk*

The reason this came up is because my co-worker had asked me how much I was paying for my apartment and stuff, so I invited him to come check it out a little bit. I didn’t know that inviting someone to your house was such a great honor, but it really is according to my coworker. I think I may have unwittingly developed our friendship a little further with that move. This is actually good, though. He’s a good man. I learned that he’s actually a Chinese christian. So he’s a bit of a minority in China. Makes sense why we may have taken to each other quite quickly then.

Post: #197

(06-19-2015 09:26 AM)Fortis Wrote:  I haven't a clue, really. It's tough to figure out whether they're shy or just wasting my time.

You can't get that info through words that well, you can detect it better with physical compliance. That's why goodlookingloser does brazen stuff like immediately grabbing their hand and not letting go, or putting his hand on their upper chest in the club, and it works. There is nothing 'friendy' about a girl complying with those actions. Obviously, you don't need to go to those extremes, but more physical demands generally improves screening.
You can also detect some of it from their eye contact. A sexually interested girl makes/holds/breaks eye contact differently to a mere 'friendly' girl.

Post: #198

^ I think that is more applicable for night game. I don't get the impression that you can roll up on Chinese girls and grab them in the day time. Sounds dangerous. I'm fine with being proven wrong, but I can't see that working in the day time.

Post: #199

Random grabbing is definitely not the way to go. Physical contact implies a high level of intimacy in China. Certainly slutty girls won't mind if you more or less grab them in public, but for other girls or are either not slutty or not wanting to appear as such (even if they are), this is not the way to roll. Holding hands momentarily and doing things of a more gentle nature, like comparing hand sizes, or other excuses for kino, are to me a much better way to go. Grab a girl and embarrass her because of the implications and she's gone.

I will also say, adding alcohol in a club atmosphere does change the rules substantially, though "good" girls will still object to the goodlookingloser brazen game referred to above.

(06-25-2015 08:15 AM)Fortis Wrote:  ^ I think that is more applicable for night game. I don't get the impression that you can roll up on Chinese girls and grab them in the day time. Sounds dangerous. I'm fine with being proven wrong, but I can't see that working in the day time.

Post: #200

Co-sign on everything Global wrote. Having had what I would consider a fair amount of experience with FOB Chinese girls without the use of any alcohol, my suggestion is to limit the PDA to hand holding initially. Most important thing is get them to your place. Escalate in private. Do not assume they are not interested; make your moves there. This has always worked for me. After you establish some intimacy over time, she will be more willing to kiss you in public, but still they are not that comfortable with it (especially in China I imagine).

During day I would go indirect, get wechat info. Try to make a connection, but that may be hard. It's a numbers game like anything. I would avoid any aggro overtly physical game.