Post: #126

(02-06-2014 04:01 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  ^ yep. Exact same experience with an outsource at an old firm of mine.

I feel that people scared of outsourcing have never hired outsourced "talent" if you're good. Man people will knock down your doors.

So hard to find the best of the best. Unless you're here where the best reside.

People don't seem to understand that inequality exists becuase the flows go to the best. That's how life is in capitalism. So don't be average don't be average don't be average! You'll destroy your future.

It was one of the best things to ever happen to me. It was hard to walk away from the money to do something different so the push was exactly what I needed.

Post: #127

What a shitshow this thread has become. This is evident by the dearth of so many prominent posters not chiming in whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if people with simultaneous RooshV and Stormfront accounts accidentally posted here instead of the other.

I would argue that immigrants preserve all the good things America once had. For one, they are more fertile (they pop out babies). Last time I checked, multi-generational Americans still had dicks and pussies. Can't blame no one but yourself for not putting that to use. If recent arrivals with far less are able to reproduce, then everyone else can too.

Two, immigrants bring traditional values regarding masculine and feminine behavior, and are hardworking people for the most part. Too much evidence showing the higher educational attainment rates of immigrant groups vs. multi-generational Americans.

Three, their bitches are much more palatable and not fat for the most part. I'd take the caliente mami from the 305 over the feminist libtard in Portlandia anyday.

You can't blame the destruction of the good things America once had on anything but Americans themselves. Shit, we've had nothing on the scale of the Great Depression which was well before 1965. People who were alive then will tell you how bad shit really was (soup and bread lines). The postwar boom after WWII created the most entitled, materialistic, ant-American generation this country has ever known. I made that point to much agreement in another thread.

Hell, who else in the manosphere is advocating the good attributes America once had better than RooshV? I have yet to see anyone out there (2nd, 3rd, 4th generation American) create a better infrastructure to support the modern American male. I guarantee you the guys who own Men's Health and all the bullshit they spew aren't immigrants or post-1965 Americans. Whoever in Roosh's family decided to immigrate to this country did men here and around the world a great service. We need MORE, not less, Americans like that.

Just look at who Bill Gates - the wealthiest American in the world - chose to become the new CEO of Microsoft. He chose an Indian man who never even attended schools in this country. That's a big statement to send to the world. Hustle = American.

America has always been about money. All those generations of Europeans that immigrated here after the original settlers came did so for the almighty $. Irish people flooded this country en masse as a result of a potato famine.

Slavery was about $. Hell, the preservation of racial hierarchies (introduced in colonial America) was about $. You can see this just from traveling elsewhere in the Americas you'll notice how race is a far less conscious phenomenon. Go to Brazil and you'll see what I mean firsthand.

And for African-Americans, Jim Crow = Fuck No. Would I be putting out data sheets if "coloreds" were banned from certain bars and clubs? Of course not.

This thread is beyond junk at this point. Bring facts or go home.

Post: #128

Anytime I get heavily involved in a thead like this it is actualy to see if there are other people I would like to meet.

It is clear to me who has seen and been a part of a lot of these concerns and those that have not.

Outsourcing is a big red flag to me, if you've actually outsourced tasks my fucking god is it a shit show. If you want bullshit data processing no thoughts and data entry it is in fact superior to the states though. It is god damn living hell if you need formed opinions and someone to think on their feet. You end up losing MORE time!

I don't want that on my team though unless there is a boring mundane task that needs to be done. I want someone who thinks for himself and doesn't pander to bullshit rules.

Increased competition is actually good to me it shines the light on the difference between a real skill set and a processing skillset. All I see is the green light to shine in the limelight.

RE-read wwt's story he just posted and it'll click. It makes your value much higher than average ie: wage inequality again! See how this works?

Put a random outsourced Indian into a hackathon in Facebook and LOL at the performance delta. Come on guys get real. Legitimate skillsets are hard as nails to outsource.

Post: #129

(02-06-2014 02:51 PM)soup Wrote:  It seems like the pot calling the kettle black.

Maybe, but it's not. Accusing someone of hypocrisy is easy when you reverse-engineer the wrong principles from what they're saying.

Hypocrisy means advocating principles that everyone should uphold, then acting against those principles for personal benefit.

Advocating principles that everyone should uphold that happen to be personally beneficial might be dishonest but it is not hypocrisy.

Sorry to nitpick but hypocrisy is a way-overused accusation.

Post: #130

(02-06-2014 04:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  What a shitshow this thread has become. This is evident by the dearth of so many prominent posters not chiming in whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if people with simultaneous RooshV and Stormfront accounts accidentally posted here instead of the other.

I would argue that immigrants preserve all the good things America once had. For one, they are more fertile (they pop out babies). Last time I checked, multi-generational Americans still had dicks and pussies. Can't blame no one but yourself for not putting that to use. If recent arrivals with far less are able to reproduce, then everyone else can too.

Two, immigrants bring traditional values regarding masculine and feminine behavior, and are hardworking people for the most part. Too much evidence showing the higher educational attainment rates of immigrant groups vs. multi-generational Americans.

Three, their bitches are much more palatable and not fat for the most part. I'd take the caliente mami from the 305 over the feminist libtard in Portlandia anyday.

You can't blame the destruction of the good things America once had on anything but Americans themselves. Shit, we've had nothing on the scale of the Great Depression which was well before 1965. People who were alive then will tell you how bad shit really was (soup and bread lines). The postwar boom after WWII created the most entitled, materialistic, ant-American generation this country has ever known. I made that point to much agreement in another thread.

Hell, who else in the manosphere is advocating the good attributes America once had better than RooshV? I have yet to see anyone out there (2nd, 3rd, 4th generation American) create a better infrastructure to support the modern American male. I guarantee you the guys who own Men's Health and all the bullshit they spew aren't immigrants or post-1965 Americans. Whoever in Roosh's family decided to immigrate to this country did men here and around the world a great service. We need MORE, not less, Americans like that.

Just look at who Bill Gates - the wealthiest American in the world - chose to become the new CEO of Microsoft. He chose an Indian man who never even attended schools in this country. That's a big statement to send to the world. Hustle = American.

America has always been about money. All those generations of Europeans that immigrated here after the original settlers came did so for the almighty $. Irish people flooded this country en masse as a result of a potato famine.

Slavery was about $. Hell, the preservation of racial hierarchies (introduced in colonial America) was about $. You can see this just from traveling elsewhere in the Americas you'll notice how race is a far less conscious phenomenon. Go to Brazil and you'll see what I mean firsthand.

And for African-Americans, Jim Crow = Fuck No. Would I be putting out data sheets if "coloreds" were banned from certain bars and clubs? Of course not.

This thread is beyond junk at this point. Bring facts or go home.

After reading this post, it kinda makes sense now why so many Americans are pro-immigration. They see it as a pure economic benefit, and youre right in that America has always been about money, nothing else. A deep sense of culture and community are virtually absent in the states, outside of the ethnic enclaves, ironically. Im not shitting on America, just reiterating what you said.

Post: #131

This commercial does disservice to the hundreds of thousands of people in foreign countries who enthusiastically learn English because they want to interact with americans, love america, and can't wait to interact with the culture.

They could have just as easily made a commercial with people all over the world like, "Coke: every time you drink one, you drink to the USA." Which would be an absolutely awesome ad campaign that would make foreigners proud by proxy.

This is a much better 2013 Coke ad.

Post: #132

(02-06-2014 04:32 PM)Cunnilinguist Wrote:  After reading this post, it kinda makes sense now why so many Americans are pro-immigration. They see it as a pure economic benefit, and youre right in that America has always been about money, nothing else. A deep sense of culture and community are virtually absent in the states, outside of the ethnic enclaves, ironically. Im not shitting on America, just reiterating what you said.

I would say the anti-immigration is about money. I tried to keep an open mind about this culture loss but I still don't see it.

That leads me to believe it is more about immigrants coming in and taking jobs at lower wages that has most people pissed off.

In all the neighborhoods I have lived in, we always helped each other out. We're talking diverse neighborhoods. I see community all around me but that could be because I am open to it even if my neighbors are culturally different.

Post: #133

@grit marketing bro stir the pot!

Just like what justin Bieber did, one of my buddies who is a high end marketer emailed me the exact day the news broke and he said

"Watch justin rebrand to a bad boy as he gets into his early 20s"

I laughed becuase it's true. What makes most people go in uproar is usually exactly what they wanted.

Similar to most I also acknowledged that Miley Cyrus made that genius move as well.

She was the NUMBER ONE search on google for 2013. Let that sink in. Some people pay several dollars per CLICK to be at the top of google. (Don't want to get in pay for conversion pay for click blah blah you get the idea).

You created a shit storm of attention= $$$ (throwing hundos in the air).

Talk shit on people like Miley Cyrus when you have the capability to literally have words added to the dictionary lol. I'll be waiting and in deep sleep till then.

Post: #134

How have the U.S.'s traditional population groups - white and black Americans - benefited from the massive immigration that has occurred since 1965?

Why isn't anyone encouraging mass immigration into non-Western countries?

Why do we suddenly "need" immigration for our economy when we had a relatively stronger economy pre-1965 with much lower levels of immigration?

Does a prosperous country have a right to maintain its traditional population and culture by restricting the influx of third world immigrants? If not, how can you expect it to remain prosperous over time?

These are the core questions I still haven't seen answered.

Post: #135

^ I already answered you. We need high end immigration because we need to retain the best and the brightest. Remain number one.

Don't waste my time saying the best and the brightest are all here that is straight false. We want the best and brightest here. Or else they may go elsewhere and we will lose our edge.

Pretty simple.

People scared of immigration don't have a valuable skillset.

You already answered the second part yourself America was built on stronger people immigrating and taken over. Lets just recruit the top people.

I agree with WWT people just seem scared of them I want them here on my team. I want the best right next to me, not the protection of (still don't know what). USA is built on giving the best the best resources etc.

Post: #136

(02-06-2014 05:02 PM)WestCoast Wrote:  We need high end immigration because we need to retain the best and the brightest. Remain number one.

I doubt the 35 million+ illegals represent high end immigration.

Post: #137

^ re-read the thread I already explained the difference

You benefit from high end immigrants because they solve key problems. Go look at tech. This means more funds flow to the USA. This means we have a higher standard of living.

It is not a coincidence we have the highest standard and the highest GDP.

If you're worried about low end jobs you've got to up your skillset. IDGAF about low end farm workers because I am smarter and more valuable than that and always will be. I can learn and grow, I don't care who bags my groceries or who picks my tomatoes. Don't care one bit not scared at all.

Post: #138

What a shitshow this thread has become. This is evident by the dearth of so many prominent posters not chiming in whatsoever. Sometimes I wonder if people with simultaneous RooshV and Stormfront accounts accidentally posted here instead of the other.

Why yes, this thread has become a shit show when a "prominent poster" *snort* resorts to an arguement that boils down to "if you don't agree with me, you're a raciss!"

We need high end immigration because we need to retain the best and the brightest. Remain number one.

No disagreement...but what are we actually seeing on the ground? The problems with mass immigration are not due the best and brightest coming to America to fulfill their dreams.

It's the immigrants who come here (many illegally) and establish homogeneous enclaves, make no attempt to assimilate to the culture at large, but rather attempt to force the host culture to accommodate their own practices and values. Like the Somalis in Minnesota or the Muslims in Dearborn, MI...or the Mexican barrios all over the South West.

(EDIT - recalled the immigrant populace incorrectly, that was Somalis in Minnesota, not Nigerians)

Post: #139

@WWT, definitely, I expect to reinvent myself a few times over. That's what I can do individually, but individual solutions can't influence trends...in the 2000s about 2.5 million jobs were sent from the US to other countries by American multinationals. Companies choose to do that because there aren't enough incentives to reward businesses that choose to keep jobs stateside.

Some of the jobs you mentioned aren't coming back to the US. That's not done passively, it's the result of business practices that the country shouldn't be apathetic to. I can't change any of that so I concentrate on improving my value and being able to go elsewhere whenever needed...but broader solutions can (and probably should) be considered.

(02-06-2014 04:11 PM)Hencredible Casanova Wrote:  America has always been about money.

Every society is about money to some degree, civilizations are built through acquisition. The problem is that the more a nation revolves solely around money the frailer it becomes. Venice learned this the hard way: it went into steep, irreversible decline because the cash dried up and that was everything to them. All it took was trade shifting from the Mediterranean to the Atlantic to deal Venice its death blow. Had its philosophy and self-perception been less about money, history might have turned out differently. Instead, all it took was one whiff of cannon fire for the Most Serene Republic to be wiped off the map.

Quote:Slavery was about $. Hell, the preservation of racial hierarchies (introduced in colonial America) was about $. You can see this just from traveling elsewhere in the Americas you'll notice how race is a far less conscious phenomenon. Go to Brazil and you'll see what I mean firsthand.

Racial hierarchy might start out as an economic matter but with time it adds an ideological element that's usually more enduring than purely financial concerns. The south during Jim Crow failed to develop economically because their social views were too inflexible/intolerant to allow innovation and growth. It was poor in part because it stubbornly clung to its segregationist identity.

As for Latin America, it's extremely ethnically conscious, and more up-front about it than the US. It's less so in Brazil, but elsewhere the lines between whites, mestizos, blacks and indians are strong and defining, and it's been a source of contention since before those countries became independent.

Post: #140

I know the difference. Nobody is against a few thousand highly skilled immigrants coming legally to this country over a period of time. However, most people are against 35 million + illegals flooding this country.

I assume you are referring to the H-1B visa issue which tech companies use to lower wages of STEM graduates in America. As long as high unemployment exists there is little need for immigrants period. Most studies show that America produces enough STEM graduates to fill the positions. The reason for the "apparent shortage" is because they have to compete against imported high end immigrants, which depresses wages and is a major reason most STEM students leave the field after 10 years.

interesting article on the topic

Post: #141

WestCoast you seem to be operating under the delusion that we are only bringing in highly skilled and educated immigrants. We have over 40 million foreign born people living in this country today. The idea that all of these are all PhD's or are otherwise "the best" at what they do is simply ridiculous.

Note how the percentage of foreign born people in the U.S. reached its lowest point 1960-1970, before the effects of the 1965 Immigration Act started to be felt.

Post: #142

^ again re-read the thread

You're not going to stop people from coming. Already addressed this. I wouldn't even give a shit if another 20M came in next year. (Obviously wouldn't happen)

The USA has the largest military in the world I doubt they are doing a poor job of patrolling the borders. Let's get realistic here the shit is in check. 30M whatever drop in the bucket. Don't care.

How anyone can be concerned about this is honestly beyond me. Again I would argue immigration helps people with high skillsets even illegal ones because it increases the gap between real skills and processing. I alluded to this in my post on outsourcing.

If a person in India can take my job, I deserved to lose it because I was not of value.

Post: #143

Ok so basically your argument is, "I make a lot of money, I don't give a fuck about low end jobs, if immigrants come and displace native-born workers, tough luck."

Your loyalty is to money over your countrymen.

There's a word for that.

edit: spelling

Post: #144

No.

My point as usual is a positive one. If people are going to come in and do low end bullshit like pick fruit that is good for the average American. Now the cost of food goes down and he can go develop a real skillset and make more money.

How is this bad. Again if my skillset is able to be outsourced my skillset is worthless. Having worked with actual outsourcing i know the quality blows.

I think the average American should be able to find any line of work above being a maid/fruit picker. Maybe I am too optimistic in the skills of the American.

You're basically saying there are loads of Americans who are so stupid the only skill they have is picking fruit and being a maid.

Yeah I guess I'm the patriotic one lol

Post: #145

@Scorpion

One reason for the pro-immigration argument can be made from the statistic you posted earlier. Women need to reproduce at that 2.1 kids per woman rate for that 1 to 1 population replacement to occur. With more seniors retiring and collecting Social Security and Medicare entitlements, an influx of tax paying immigrants will ease that tax burden in the wake of such low reproductive rates. Whether that offsets unemployment paid out to displaced workers from immigration, I have no idea.

Everyone also seems to be forgetting that as a mere issue of pragmatism, pro-immigration more or less supports a clear victory for the most pro-feminist, anti-family political party in this country.

Post: #146

No offense WestCoast, but for a finance guy you have a terrible grasp of economics. If you honestly don't understand how flooding the labor force with low-skilled immigrants and driving down wages is a bad thing for the country and its people, then I don't know what to tell you except to get out of your Wall Street bubble. Not everyone possesses the skillset or the aptitude to be a high-income earner. You don't seem to understand that the labor force and the country itself is composed primarily of average, unexceptional people doing thankless jobs for which they are not extremely well compensated at all.

Post: #147

Tax paying immigrants?

Hah. I singlehandedly know 5 different families gaming the system and not reporting their cash based incomes, while getting free rent money. They bitched about having to pay $100 in utilities for the month.

Post: #148

@ scorpion I like how you're trying to derail this to my Wall Street bubble it is not gonna happen. I will break it down logically again.

Let's see if you're an actual citizen you get to go work on the oil sands, you can get a job as an X-ray tech in 2 years of cheap community college. You can even go and get a job in phlebotomy in 1.5 years and draw blood.

I really believe anyone can do these things. That apparently is where we disagree.

If someone can't learn how to use a X-ray machine after schooling... Well... I disagree again.

Post: #149

My point as usual is a positive one. If people are going to come in and do low end bullshit like pick fruit that is good for the average American.

No way, no how. Those "low end bullshit" jobs are what USED to be the "entry level" and summer time jobs for teenagers, where they learn about things like the value of hard work and what it means to earn money from the sweat of their brow.

One of the most disingenuous things Dubya said during his presidency was "They are doing the jobs Americans won't do."

Yeah, they won't do them, because illegals will do it cheaper, and they won't do it because they already get more in welfare and other entitlement benefits than the wages the illegals will accept to do that labor.

It hurts everyone.

The kids don't get that important first job to build up solid work ethic, and the illegals get exploited because they fear deportation, Big Business can treat them like shit and underpay them.

Illegal immigrant labor is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved....except Big Business corporations making the profits at everyone else's expense.

Post: #150

That's fine then we can disagree. I seriously have no idea how someone can't be hard working enough to obtain a cushy $50K a year secretary job at minimum so... On that note I'll fade away.

I am clearly blindly optimistic in that case, I have seen too many "dumb" people make it around me with the right work and guidance so it is too hard for me to grasp this drain.