Post: #1

The moment my game took a gigantic leap to the next level was when I decided that phone numbers were no longer acceptable.

Newbie guys tend to think of phone numbers as a testament to a player's game, and while that is a good goal initially, it will only impede you if you focus on getting phone numbers as the End Game of the night.

Let's say a Player In Development heads out for the night. His goal is to get 3 phone numbers. He structures his approaches and 'lines' with the end goal of getting the girl's number. After he gets the phone number he continues with his night content in his sub-conscious, because he hit his goal.

Now let's say that same player decides to head out for the night with the Intent To Have A ONS and simply refuses getting numbers. Now he's working towards the end goal of getting his dick wet.

As a result his game jumps to the next level, because he is being put to the test. No longer will he have the paltry reward of heading home with his dick in his hand and three phone numbers in his phone, because let's keep it real: Most numbers do not convert for the average player.

There's a couple of reasons why this works:

1. You screen out the potential lays from the girls DTF immediately

From my experience, when I refused numbers and continued to approach girls until I found one (s) DTF that night, my ONS notches increased 10x. My brain was no longer working on just getting a number, but instead not resting until my cock was inside her pussy. Sometimes this meant I went home with zero numbers and pissed because I faced LMR that didn't work out, but guess what? I improved my game the next time and continued to get better. Pro athletes become the best by pushing themselves continually and staying OUT of their comfort zone.

2. Being a real player is fucking girls, not getting numbers

No matter how you slice or dice it, there comes a point when you must develop the ability to pull a bitch the same night for the lay. By working with the goal of just getting a phone number, then hoping to set up a date and then hoping to get laid, you're not working with your full potential. Period.

Everyone of you on this forum have the ability to go out and pull a bitch the same night. Stop selling yourself short.

Say 'No' To Phone Numbers and watch your SNL Rate jump.

Post: #2

One of the big things that I believe the PUA community has proliferated is the act of 'closing' in any form being a success. I remember reading a PUA book (The Game maybe?) and I remember reading the guys were basking in a pile of phone numbers they got from the weekend and they NEVER EVEN CALLED THE GIRLS!

Many guys get a lot of validation from doing things like making out and getting numbers (I'm guilty quite often myself). So much so that they're content with just doing that alone. Sure, getting laid would be nice, but hey if they can brag to their friends about getting a chick's number from the club then why risk pushing the interaction to the point where they may get blown out?

Like you said, "Being a real player is fucking girls, not getting numbers", but for some they don't care about being a real player as phone numbers are enough to keep them happy. Phone numbers are just 10 random digits that simply allow you the opportunity to resume face to face contact.

With that said, where does your text game guide play into all of this seeing as texting requires phone numbers?

Post: #3

(01-31-2014 07:26 PM)Seth_Rose Wrote:  Like you said, "Being a real player is fucking girls, not getting numbers", but for some they don't care about being a real player as phone numbers are enough to keep them happy.

Right, that's because most guys are in this game to get GFs, not be players.

Post: #4

Numbers come into play as an absolute last resort.

If everything goes great and at the last minute the chick you've been kicking it with for the entire night gets an emergency call and has to go rescue her little sister or something, then getting the number is the proper play.

I've gotten to the point to quote Lloyd Banks the rapper though, "that If I don't hit it the first night, I ain't gonna call". There's simply too many girls in Los Angeles/vegas to go on dates and is a waste of time to me personally.

The text guide comes into play for any numbers you get regardless if you got her number at Whole Foods or like the previous scenario I laid out.

Post: #5

A much needed pep talk.

Thanks man.

Post: #6

Great advice.

Nothing like turning down a girls number and then suggesting she accompany you back to yours. I think the boldness alone has tipped some girls who were on the fence over the edge.

On the other hand there are times where it makes sense to get a girls number - that doesn't mean you stop gaming her then. Always push for the SNL. Get the number and keep going for it. For instance I might establish rapport/build attraction with a girl by talking about some fun activities I like to do. If she's interested I'll say, hey we should swap numbers and I'll call you next time I'm going surfing or whatever. I'M NEVER GOING TO CALL HER ABOUT SURFING. The number swap is just there to make her feel at ease.

Post: #7

^Good point I forgot to add.

Chicks are shocked that a guy wouldn't be eager for her number and satisfied with 10 digits. The thirst is so incredibly real among beta bitch boys today, that when you choose to turn HER down and opt for SNL or nothing, her Gina' tingles explode and then she wants fuck in order to validate herself.

Obviously, you might get her number later, but initially not asking for it, or having that goal sends the message that you mean business.

Post: #8

This has been my mindset for years now. Friends used to ask me, "When are you gonna get her number?" and crap like that, I'd just shake my head and respond, "Only if I have to."

In the case of bar/club chicks, a phone number should be an absolute last resort. Only when the option to bang is completely impossible due to the girl or the logistics, that's when you say, "We should hang out sometime." and pull your phone out. House parties, this should not be an issue, because the logistics are perfect for SNLs.

I've got posts in somewhere on here, where I analyze how my mid-game has suffered, because I focus so strong on the SNL. There's a blueprint though, it's got me laid many times, so why would I stray from it:

1. Go to the bar/club
- If I'm with friends, we'll do a little pre-drinking, then head out.
- If I'm alone, I'll do a quick pre-drink in the car to get that little something extra while I wait for a drink inside.

2. Post up
- When I have the option, I almost always sit up at the bar. Girls come to you there, and you can easily start conversations.
- When I'm out with friends, I'll hang out for a bit, then disappear to do my own thing. I go out with groups now and never just one wingman, to make this part easier. They're my "home base" but I don't need anyone slowing me down when I'm running game, thus the disappearing part.

3. Get as many prospects as possible
- This is probably the only part I should change, because when there's enough girls at the venue, I'll talk to too many, and that can work against you. I think getting 2 or 3 really solid prospects is best, but if you find one that is DTF, get that one out of there immediately.

4. Eject!
- When I find the right girl, I'm doing everything I can to get her out of there before her dumbass friends, or anyone else stops us (and just us) from leaving together.

5. Get her into my car
- I ALWAYS park at the back of parking lots, in as dark a place as possible, preferably in as low traffic an area as I can find. That way, when I get her back to my car, if things are going well, I can just whip my dick out. Time this right, and sex is guaranteed.

6. Get to a bed ASAP!
- Her place, your place, a hotel, just go go go before she starts the standard "second thoughts" routine, and you have to breakdown barriers and build comfort again.
- I used to drive a van, as a way of skipping this step. God I miss that van.


So easy, sure you're not gonna get a "good" girl this way, but that's never what I was looking for. Just a little fun, with a girl that's DTF.

Post: #9

(01-31-2014 07:43 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  ^Good point I forgot to add.

Chicks are shocked that a guy wouldn't be eager for her number and satisfied with 10 digits. The thirst is so incredibly real among beta bitch boys today, that when you choose to turn HER down and opt for SNL or nothing, her Gina' tingles explode and then she wants fuck in order to validate herself.

Obviously, you might get her number later, but initially not asking for it, or having that goal sends the message that you mean business.

Hell ya! I can think of plenty of girls I didn't get a # from until I was saying goodbye the next day.

Post: #10

(01-31-2014 06:41 PM)Christian McQueen Wrote:  The moment my game took a gigantic leap to the next level was when I decided that phone numbers were no longer acceptable.

I think this is a good reminder of what a few have been saying for a while. A phone number is nothing without serious attraction. With serious attraction, why wouldn't you escalate until that point which you can't escalate anymore?

As for your definition of a player being to get laid, that's true, but it depends on the guy what he really wants.

Guy 1 - Wants to get SNLs as many nights as he can
Guy 2 - Wants to find a LTR/wife
Guy 3 - Wants to maintain Multiple LTRs/fuckbuddies

Post: #11

good points here, although as stated by mcqueen I think this concept is most useful for those who are inexperienced and lack the initial ability to be aggressive. One really loses nothing by taking down a phone # except a couple seconds once one has the ability to screen for dtf'ness.

This being said, the number one way to increase ONS (albeit the most expensive) is simple logistics. I literally live 2-3 minutes away from most of the bars in my city. Does not really take a genius to get a girl back to my place even on a date w a 'good girl'. From there its pretty much game over anyways.

Post: #12

Nights are made for getting strange tang. Gather your numbers during the day. This should be a cornerstone of the forum as much as baking soda and deadlifts are.

Post: #13

Reminds me of Roosh's no dating challenge.

Post: #14

Solid post McQueen.

I'll add that it's is the exact same for daygame.

A lot of guys think that numbers mean something off a daytime cold approach. Usually, they don't.

Some guys have trouble getting their head around the idea of meeting a girl out during the day, and pulling her home shortly afterwards. After you've done it a few times yourself, or seen someone else, you believe.

It's a different process flow. But disregarding phone numbers, and choosing the goal from the start, remains the same.

Post: #15

I don't know any guys who consciously go out with getting numbers as an end goal for the night. Is this something guys do outside of NYC?

Post: #16

(02-01-2014 01:45 PM)soup Wrote:  I don't know any guys who consciously go out with getting numbers as an end goal for the night. Is this something guys do outside of NYC?

It's safe game, or better stated, delayed rejection game.

Post: #17

Good advice.

I think a lot of men take numbers because they want to eject early. I've been guilty of this myself at times. Kind of like an ego protection thing, like if they get the number, then they don't get rejected going for the fuck. Staying in there and pushing through can be uncomfortable for men starting out as they feel like they'll screw up, or run out of things to say if they stay in, but it's definitely where the results come from.

Post: #18

If a girl is actually interested, she'll never get mad that you tried to get sexual with her, provided that you don't act thirsty, butthurt, or give off any other negative vibes because you didn't get what you wanted.

I once had a Tica who was new to Miami tell me the night we met that in Costa Rica it's tradition that the girls don't kiss on the first date, I laughed it off, and said ok, I respect that. What she didn't know is that all I did in her country was bang chicks the first night I met them, so I knew she was spitting bullshit, but the next time I saw her I was digging her out at a notel.

A lot of chicks that you try to bang the first night, and end up banging later, the thing is they've peeped you as boyfriend material, and they don't want to set off any slut alarms, so they play good girl to make a positive impression on you, doesn't mean they didn't want you to fuck them that night, I always assume that afterwards they go home and masturbate to the thought of being with me.

Anyway, always go for the Gold, because you can always dial it back, and just take the number and set up something for next time, when you just take the number and don't make any type of move, you put yourself in the same bag with the other wack ass dudes who grabbed her number, but didn't have the balls to make a move prior to doing so, and then when you hit her up, you don't get a response, just like the rest of them.

Post: #19

What's the point of even getting numbers in the club? Seems like online game would be more successful/easier. I only go for the number if I have an extremely strong interaction with the girl and circumstances or logistics prevent us from leaving together. Makeouts and phone numbers mean absolutely nothing in the club, although if you play your hand right and don't makeout with the girl too early into the interaction it should be the catalyst to take her home; that's been my experience anyways.

Post: #20

(01-31-2014 10:36 PM)Courage Reborn Wrote:  Solid post McQueen.

I'll add that it's is the exact same for daygame.

A lot of guys think that numbers mean something off a daytime cold approach. Usually, they don't.

Some guys have trouble getting their head around the idea of meeting a girl out during the day, and pulling her home shortly afterwards. After you've done it a few times yourself, or seen someone else, you believe.

It's a different process flow. But disregarding phone numbers, and choosing the goal from the start, remains the same.

Courage can you elaborate and/or drop a data sheet on what you usually do to get same day lays (SDL? haha). I remember you mentioned you had quite a bit of success with this when we met each other. I'm assuming it's mainly about comfort and logistics, but a breakdown would be cool.

Post: #21

Getting a number used to mean you had a chance to bang if you called her for a date. Now it just means you can be in her fan club.

Just roll up to the bar dolo or with a wing. Spit some game and take it out of the bar. Invite them to an after party. Ask for a number after you bang and only if you think you have a chance to bang again or what's the point.

I hate to say it but watch Jersey Shore. All they do is pull bitches back to the house. Never have I seen them ask for numbers or do text game.

Post: #22

Good one. I think I learned very early that numbers didn't mean anything. In fact, I think I only tried to get numbers while I was a real beta/omega. As soon as I began having just a bit of success with game and getting laid, numbers was never on my mind.

Some times I don't mind taking the number, but I never took it as a sucess or anything, just a hedge if the circumstances were such that we could get separated such at being in some social settings where we had to go somewhere else.

I don't know if more experienced guys can chip in, but asking for a number always seemed to have bad effect on the vibe. The only times I've felt numbers meant anything positive to me getting laid was when the girl volunteered or straight up asked me to take her number. That I take as a great sign that things are going well?

Post: #23

Good points but you have to take into account the culture that your in, if your not in a ONS culture you are making it really difficult on yourself and missing out on a lot of opportunities because you didn't get her number.
Unless you are some type of super player in these places your only going to get the occasional ONS, its just reality. So why not get a few numbers, dont make it your mission, but hey.

Day game same day lays are impressive...where does this ever happen?

Post: #24

(02-01-2014 01:45 PM)soup Wrote:  I don't know any guys who consciously go out with getting numbers as an end goal for the night. Is this something guys do outside of NYC?

yes, in toronto

Post: #25

Nobody has mentioned, but there's one reason why getting a number can be a GOOD thing. When it comes to LMR time, if you have her number, and have already set up your Day 2 with her (even if you don't intend it to happen), having her number already is one extra thing that may tip your chances of getting through LMR in your favour.

This is probably not much of a concern if you are going out in countries where ONSs are a regular, guiltless part of the culture and you are screening for girls that are DTF. But if you are in a more culturally conservative country and your targeting girls who aren't drunk and DTF, then this kind of thing really comes into play.

All that being said, I have a tendency myself to drop down from top gear to a lower gear once I have the number in a night-time setting. I'm becoming more aware of how retarded this is and I'm working on fixing it. I may even ban myself from getting numbers at nighttime before I've properly pushed for the SNL. Or I may even ban myself entirely from getting numbers at night for a little while, just to see how the situation changes. This post has been a timely reminder - thanks!

But anyway, having the phone number can be useful for LMR inoculation, so don't dismiss it entirely!