Post: #226

I don't want to watch that silly video again.

Did he not say his girl would probably not date him if she met him now? He claims he met her when he was skinny. I am sure his girl detests his muscles.

Post: #227

I don't know why the "too big" argument comes up in thread after thread. It's as if skinny guys want to rationalize not working out.

It's not a question of "This girl said she likes..." We all know that is bullshit and girls gonna hamster.

In the wild, the alpha male of the pack is the biggest and the strongest. Muscles demonstrate strength and power which is hardwired into signals of sexual fitness. Simply put, the bigger you are, the more attractive you will be. We all know this to be true on an instinctual level which is why the subject strikes a wire with many.

Overdoing steroids like a professional bodybuilder will mess with this signal of sexual fitness because you are going beyond genetic limits = unattractive.

But let's not kid ourselves. Those guys don't get that way by accident. This involves 10,000s of hours of working out. None of us are going to get anywhere near this level. Everything else is mental masturbation.

Post: #228

(02-25-2014 04:45 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  Rionomad, who's states no-one wants to date yoga chicks, hipsters or chicks on okcupid, posted this....

That isn't what I said, stop misquoting me to fit your argument.

For someone who is talking about arguing with logic, you sure are arguing like a little girl right now. You should go to the gym, it'll raise your t levels so you don't come across so womanly.

(02-16-2014 09:00 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  No one here wears Affliction t-shirts, or is trying to fuck hipster chicks from OKCupid.

You should start frequenting different circles, and stop watching Carly Rey Jepsen music videos.

The rest of your argument is just as woman-like. You cut out a few quotes about some negatives that some people may experience with some girls in some situations, and left out what he said in the rest of the 12 minute video.

I just finished squatting, so I can't be bothered to go back and find the dozens of quotes in the video about how muscles have positively affected how woman view him.

(02-25-2014 04:45 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  he's says,

I'm not into slutty girls, I'm into nice girls and nice girls aren't really into me."

"I'm lucky I already have a girl."

"some chicks think, I'm scary, and I am scary" He also goes on to say you wanna get big do it for yourself, basically cause if your fitness model level, thats more than enough.

Post: #229

If a chick gives me a raging hard on, I'd fuck her regardless of whether or not she's a "hipster" (or whatever the fuck that means this year).

Post: #230

Some people in this thread seem a little too ego invested in muscles. I'm an advocate of lifting weights and getting into shape (whatever that is) too, but anyone with eyes can see that there is a lot of variation in what women respond to. Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid. One thing I would say is that being skinny alone will never get you laid (you will need additional qualities such as good face, game, style, etc.), whereas being muscular alone will get you laid sometimes.

Also, a lot of wild numbers getting thrown about. Like 185 at 6 feet being skinny. Henry Cavill was only 190 at 6 foot 1 for Man of Steel, and while I think his body looked shit in that movie compared to Immortals (where he was around 170), I don't think anyone would call him skinny.

Also, while we're talking real life experience, I have never once seen what I consider a top tier girl with a man with big muscles. Maybe they are fucking them on the down low and that's why I've never seen it, or maybe it's different in the cities I've lived in compared to the US, but I would have thought I'd have seen one case.

Post: #231

I have repeatedly said in here that a muscular build is attractive. Anyone who says I'm advocating being skinny is attractive or being muscular is unattractive to women is full of shit.

(02-16-2014 09:57 AM)sonicboom Wrote:  I thought the baseline in the discussion is: muscle mass is attractive, but is there a point where it isn't worth it in time, or it actually hinders you?
<snip>
It's also obvious that being muscular and fit is attractive to most women, right?

Rio: you're not a spokesman for RVF, and calling my rhetoric woman like... you're grasping at straws. I like the other guy's emotional appeal and cry for the tribe to shun better.

Post: #232

qft

(02-26-2014 09:21 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Some people in this thread seem a little too ego invested in muscles. I'm an advocate of lifting weights and getting into shape (whatever that is) too, but anyone with eyes can see that there is a lot of variation in what women respond to. Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid. One thing I would say is that being skinny alone will never get you laid (you will need additional qualities such as good face, game, style, etc.), whereas being muscular alone will get you laid sometimes.

Also, a lot of wild numbers getting thrown about. Like 185 at 6 feet being skinny. Henry Cavill was only 190 at 6 foot 1 for Man of Steel, and while I think his body looked shit in that movie compared to Immortals (where he was around 170), I don't think anyone would call him skinny.

Also, while we're talking real life experience, I have never once seen what I consider a top tier girl with a man with big muscles. Maybe they are fucking them on the down low and that's why I've never seen it, or maybe it's different in the cities I've lived in compared to the US, but I would have thought I'd have seen one case.

Post: #233

(02-26-2014 09:21 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Some people in this thread seem a little too ego invested in muscles. I'm an advocate of lifting weights and getting into shape (whatever that is) too, but anyone with eyes can see that there is a lot of variation in what women respond to. Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid. One thing I would say is that being skinny alone will never get you laid (you will need additional qualities such as good face, game, style, etc.), whereas being muscular alone will get you laid sometimes.

Also, a lot of wild numbers getting thrown about. Like 185 at 6 feet being skinny. Henry Cavill was only 190 at 6 foot 1 for Man of Steel, and while I think his body looked shit in that movie compared to Immortals (where he was around 170), I don't think anyone would call him skinny.

Also, while we're talking real life experience, I have never once seen what I consider a top tier girl with a man with big muscles. Maybe they are fucking them on the down low and that's why I've never seen it, or maybe it's different in the cities I've lived in compared to the US, but I would have thought I'd have seen one case.

This was something I was going to mention earlier, size matters in the USA/Canada. Bigger is simply better, that is simply how it is this side of the pond.
I have lived in London and seeing jacked dudes is not a common sight, I saw plenty of skinny/fat dudes and they still got love from the ladies. European girls on a whole are more forgiving, having a job and being a "nice" guy will work in your favour.
I hate it when people use famous people as an example. Mr Cavill looks pretty decent in Superman, it is obvious he put in alot of work to look that way.
I am near his measurements, although I am no Superman. I myself would prefer to be closer to 195/200 range. I am hardly ego invested in muscles, it is a facet of my life.
I don't understand why you guys don't hit the gym, rather than complain that muscles are over-rated. I would rather be Charles Atlas and not the skinny guy on the beach, who gets sand kicked in his face.

Post: #234

No one is saying you can't attract women without being big.

We're saying that it's almost impossible to be "too big" in the eyes of women, unless you get into freakshow territory (i.e. 7 feet tall, bodybuilder physique, obese strongman, etc...)

99.99% of guys will not end up in freakshow territory from lifting weights, so the concern that you might get "too big" and reduce your attraction to women is asinine, and is simply an excuse guys make for not working out. It's a male rationalization hamster for why they don't need to put in the work at the gym.

And really, that's fine. I don't give a fuck if any other guy works out or not. But I'll laugh when he starts hamstering about how women don't like bigger guys, along with every other guy who has put serious time and effort into the iron and experienced the results firsthand.

Post: #235

Hey guys, you don't really need legs to get laid. I love that type of argument. hah

Seriously, I have found you really have to enjoy the gym in order to get good results so this argument is pretty mute. Hitting the weights is a lifestyle for me. As you get older, this type of lifestyle is very important in terms of mental and physical health.

I have been consistently lifting for about 3 years now and feel I am just understanding how things work and what is ideal for my body. I still have a lot of experimenting to go and I am not a big guy even after 3 years. I am in this for the long term so being big isn't a major motivating factor for me.

I don't see guys able to get big enough to see any difference if they are just doing it for women. It takes consistency which I found only happens when you enjoy the process.

That makes this whole debate pointless in my eyes. The guys saying it doesn't help will never see it for themselves. It's like guys saying money doesn't help while they have always been poor.

Post: #236

(02-26-2014 11:10 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  

(02-26-2014 09:21 AM)Kieran Wrote:  Some people in this thread seem a little too ego invested in muscles. I'm an advocate of lifting weights and getting into shape (whatever that is) too, but anyone with eyes can see that there is a lot of variation in what women respond to. Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid. One thing I would say is that being skinny alone will never get you laid (you will need additional qualities such as good face, game, style, etc.), whereas being muscular alone will get you laid sometimes.

Also, a lot of wild numbers getting thrown about. Like 185 at 6 feet being skinny. Henry Cavill was only 190 at 6 foot 1 for Man of Steel, and while I think his body looked shit in that movie compared to Immortals (where he was around 170), I don't think anyone would call him skinny.

Also, while we're talking real life experience, I have never once seen what I consider a top tier girl with a man with big muscles. Maybe they are fucking them on the down low and that's why I've never seen it, or maybe it's different in the cities I've lived in compared to the US, but I would have thought I'd have seen one case.

This was something I was going to mention earlier, size matters in the USA/Canada. Bigger is simply better, that is simply how it is this side of the pond.
I have lived in London and seeing jacked dudes is not a common sight, I saw plenty of skinny/fat dudes and they still got love from the ladies. European girls on a whole are more forgiving, having a job and being a "nice" guy will work in your favour.
I hate it when people use famous people as an example. Mr Cavill looks pretty decent in Superman, it is obvious he put in alot of work to look that way.
I am near his measurements, although I am no Superman. I myself would prefer to be closer to 195/200 range. I am hardly ego invested in muscles, it is a facet of my life.
I don't understand why you guys don't hit the gym, rather than complain that muscles are over-rated. I would rather be Charles Atlas and not the skinny guy on the beach, who gets sand kicked in his face.

I don't want to get into an argument, but you seem to be missing my point. It's not about the women here being more forgiving, and that being a nice guy with a job is enough, but rather that many women simply don't like muscles (while plenty of others do). Here, having big muscles will do you no favours in the indie / electronic music scene, or in the fashion scene, and won't be too popular in the venues where the upper middle class go out. I can think of one exception, in that rugby players can clean up as they have status with the middle class (but then just as many are as fat as they are big). In other scenes, men that are very muscular will do very well. I really don't understand this one size fits all view that all women like muscles. Do all men like double d tits? I certainly don't. Nor do I like blondes, or huge arses, or sun tans. To me they're uncouth.

Likewise, it's not about rationalising not working out either (for some it might be). I've been lifting weights to supplement my boxing for 15 years. I also have pretty respectable numbers relative to my bodyweight. However, I have no interest in gaining any additional muscle mass, as it would be in direct conflict with my main interests (boxing and fashion), and I quite simply don't care for how it looks, and I'm sure this is the case for others too.

Also, anyone else agree that having a job and being a nice guy will work in your favour in London? That's certainly not my experience.

Post: #237

^ I never said one size fits all, I think that having muscle is important. I did not say it was the end all or be all, in my experience having muscle makes it easier with alot of girls.
I am not into the indie/electronic scene, so therefore I couldn't care less what those girls like.
As for London, I was being a bit sarcastic when I said you require a job and a nice personality. I did however find it alot easier to pull girls than say Toronto.

Post: #238

I agree with you that being muscular will make it easier with lots of women. I have friends that are muscular and I've seen girls throw themselves at them, and of course MikeCF and some other member's experiences prove this. I was just trying to point out that there are plenty of girls that aren't attracted to it (it's not just that it makes them insecure as some here would like to believe), and that men have all sorts of reasons for not working out (such as not liking how it looks, not just that they secretly want to be muscular but are too lazy).

Post: #239

This thread has improved my dating and sex life.

I have adjusted my workout routine to build more size and I recently put on a few pounds of muscle.

The response from girls has been excellent.

My new, updated, professional Bro-Science opinion is...

"Girls like Muscles"

I don't know what I was thinking all these years!?!?!

I think I was just watching too much Bruce Lee stuff!?!?!

Post: #240

Maybe when guys think "muscles are too big" they think Ronnie Coleman, or someone like him. That shit is never going to happen so the odds of any normal person getting "too big" (even with gear) is next to nothing.

Post: #241

Kieran Wrote:Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid.

This is like saying that plenty of men aren't attracted to an hourglass figure with big tits. It's muddying the waters.

Kieran Wrote:I'm 6 feet tall and weigh around 154.

No offense mate but that is very skinny. You obviously aren't basing these game observations on actual life experience.

Post: #242

This thread isn't about whether or not girls like muscles- they do in general.
It's about is there a continuous direct corellation between bigger and bigger muscles and more and more attraction.

I think it's about how to organize your time

Post: #243

Quote:To take this to a personal level, I've noticed over the years that when I'm 185-190lbs and keep just a basic fitness routine I pull like mad, but as I increase in size to 200lbs, I get more of intimidated looks by girls and pull less.

Going back to MacQueens' question I believe that when he gains those 10 to 15 lbs he is not gaining muscle. Gaining 10 to 15 lbs in muscle is extremely difficult and can only be a good thing. if your just gaining 10 to 15 lbs in fat then it probably is a negative going from 185-190 to 200.
Thats why when guys on this thread throw around height and weight numbers it doesnt give the whole story. if weight is all that mattered bodybuilders would never cut, its about being big AND lean
*not saying macqueen is fat just that his fluctuations are probably changes in his body fat %

Post: #244

"This thread isn't about whether or not girls like muscles- they do in general.
It's about is there a continuous direct corellation between bigger and bigger muscles and more and more attraction."

^Yep.

This thread got derailed a long time ago so I jumped ship.

Post: #245

(02-26-2014 01:31 PM)Kieran Wrote:  Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are.

But you can't quantify 'plenty' can you? I think what most of the pro-weights guys here are referring to is what *most* women respond to vs what they say they're 'attracted' to.

Admittedly, I can't quantify the word most anymore than you can quantify 'plenty' - but I think it speaks volumes that virtually every guy who has put on muscle has seen an improvement in his quantity and quality of women.

I've never met a guy who hooked up with less women / lower quality after improving his physique with weights.

Post: #246

^ I was just trying to give a bit of balance. The last two pages have been bigger is always better, 185 at 6 feet is skinny, and anyone that disagrees is trying to rationalise not working out.

Post: #247

(02-26-2014 07:53 PM)dreambig Wrote:  

Kieran Wrote:Some people in this thread seem not to be able to accept that plenty of women are not attracted to big muscles, while plenty of others are. In some circles muscles will hurt your results, and in others they will get you laid.

This is like saying that plenty of men aren't attracted to an hourglass figure with big tits. It's muddying the waters.

Kieran Wrote:I'm 6 feet tall and weigh around 154.

No offense mate but that is very skinny. You obviously aren't basing these game observations on actual life experience.

No it's not like saying that at all. It's more like saying all men aren't attracted to double d tits and fat arses.

I've been lifting weights for 15 years mate, and I have been much bigger than I am now so I do have some experience. Today, I've got no interest in being bigger for reasons already explained. And 154 at 6 feet, with 6-7% bodyfat really isn't that skinny. I have a 28-29 inch waist with a 40 inch chest relaxed - that's 11 - 12 inches difference. I can also bench just under 1.5 x bodyweight, and I've never seen anyone able to do that without having at least some muscle mass. It's funny, looking how I do, I actually get asked for training advice from men in the gym that are much bigger than me. That's what low body fat does, it's like an illusion.

Post: #248

@Kieran
Fair enough. I had you wrong there. What differences do you notice now game-wise compared to when you were heavier?

Post: #249

^^ 154llbs at 6 feet is skinny, I am not going for a Kenyan runners look.
You claim you were heavier but I bet it wasn't muscle. That is why you were so impressed with Superman Cavill's stats. On another thread you said you get high notch counts but the quality is not good, need i say more.
I am not into the girls that go to Indie festivals, i am interested in the hotties that attend pool parties in Vegas.

As for the OP original question, a guy at 6 feet 200llbs jacked is a different animal. Girls who are not confident in their looks will simply stay away and say you are out of there league. The girls you want will simply open you or most times touch you like a piece of meat, how I miss those days.

Post: #250

(02-27-2014 06:09 AM)dreambig Wrote:  @Kieran
Fair enough. I had you wrong there. What differences do you notice now game-wise compared to when you were heavier?

No easy lay ups now. Other than that pretty much the same. But then I was never huge (a lean 175 at my biggest, although bear in mind I can easily make 140 now so it's quite a lot of muscle on my frame), and have never really worn revealing clothing.