Post: #201

No, they get intimidated if they see my prowess.

Once back in college, I saw these 3 jock punks stomping some kid. Way beyond what was reasonable. So I set up and shout 'hey', they stop for moment, I help the kid up. One of the jock punks tries to sucker me with a sloppy as shit haymaker (impressive looking, powerful, but inefficient.) I shell up and deflect the blow, rebound off my right with a cross right into his face. The next thing I know all 3 are running down the street out of sight. I looked down and there were some teeth in the street. Me? I was fine.

No bishes came up to me with dripping panties, but hell the onlookers invited me for all the beer I could want.

That's what I've seen many times with street fights, a lot of posturing, very little actual action.

Post: #202

(02-17-2014 12:06 AM)soup Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 11:58 PM)LaserBear Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 11:02 PM)soup Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 10:15 PM)LaserBear Wrote:  

(02-16-2014 09:27 PM)soup Wrote:  This looks really cool. So, you can do this and get big without having to go to a gym?

First time posting here, but been a reader of assorted blogs and the forum for a long time.

Anyways, you won't get "BIG" without going to the gym, pretty much guaranteed. It CAN be done, there's proof and all, but it'll be way more effort and time than a gym. You CAN get tone as hell and an effective build for attracting women without it though.

Get ahold of P90X (and follow it ALL, diet etc) and you can make huge progress in the fit direction out of gym... but if you want to be big, hard work and heavy weights in the gym is the best way. (if there was a better, easier route, it would be more popular, period)

If you want big, buy Arnold's Weightlifting Encyclopedia, this book is my freaking bible. http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Encycloped...dybuilding

I'm a sophomore in college, 6'2, 190lbs with very low body fat. Start of my freshman year I weighed 145, skinny as a rail, not the case now (though I still want way more size, I still feel too skinny)


Oh, and as for the original purpose of this thread... There is definitely a point (where I am now), where all my gains are purely for myself. I'm already top 10% fittest in most any social setting, and if you have a Thad Castle build or Brad Pitt Fight Club build, both will attract girls nearly equally. Fit is whats important in general. Only other guys notice the small details of male physique, just like only other girls notice the small details in a girls outfit.

What's your diet like? I'm 165lbs. and 5' 11"

If you have trouble gaining weight, like I always have, just eat a lot. Fat is not a fear you should have. My freshmen year I put on around 25lbs first semester. I was eating 5000+ calories a day at the time, around 100 g of supplemented protein a day (shakes mixed with whole milk), multivitamins, and creatine so I could maintain pump 24/7 and like my reflection.

Anymore I try and eat 6-8 eggs a day in some form or another(protein for muscle and cholesterol to maintain testosterone), a protein shake, some yogurt, multivitamins, and eat alot of chicken (I buy precooked in bulk from Sams club, I love their teriyaki chicken). Just eat alot of protein and carbs. Those are the building blocks and workers required to build muscle. If you are working out hard and not gaining... eat more. Working 24/7 won't build a house without bringing in supplies to build with.

Also, if your gym has a sauna... hit it after you lift. I take alot of preworkout and its a great way to clean those chemicals out of your system and run game on girls while shirtless and with a fresh pump. The sauna is a goldmine for me... half naked girls feeling their worst "I'm all sweaty and my makeup looks bad", that's fish in a barrel for approaches if you're confident there.

Holy shit, that's a lot. I'm veg.. and I'm like 14 years older than you so my metabolism has been slowing down a lot.

Any older guys here can vouch for eating a lot and working it out at your age?

I've spent the couple of weeks starving myself because I was getting fat. Just eating a lot of berries.

I couldn't exercise much last year because of a surgery, but want to get back into it and build some more mass.

Yes. I'm in my very late 30s. As long as you don't take it to the point that the workouts and eating is physically exhausting you, you will be fine.

I am 6'0 190-195, but if I didn't work out my resting weight would be 175-80.

As for what to eat, scrambled eggs in the morning (4) with turkey bacon.

Lunch is negotiable, but I usually eat a chicken sandwich and then a huge dinner, like a big piece of salmon with brown rice. Also drink a fruit and vegetables smoothie in the morning, and I mix in protein power. I'm in the gym rarely more than 4 hours per week and never ever more than 6.

Post: #203

@Strikeback cool man I needed that explanation sense I dropping to feather weight in mma. Not competetly but just for being featherweight currently at 163 that's what I've gained from being at 130 for the last year. I am 5 7 also.

Post: #204

(02-17-2014 12:07 PM)DJ-Matt Wrote:  I'm 31 and still a little overweight so my diet is going mimimal. From what I found in another thread, an easy way to burn even more fat is to lift and the muscles rebuilding themselves will eat up the fat quickly.

Steak & eggs or any other form of a Ketogenic diet will get the fat off quickly.

Post: #205

I would say there are diminishing returns. If you are 6'1" 185 with a solid build, then you have the ideal male physique for about 90% of all women.

Guys really need to understand that the muscles themselves usually don't get girls wet. It's rather the symptoms of having those muscles. The most notable of these are:
1.) Confidence. Knowing you can beat most dudes' asses allows you to get what you what when you want it. Girls dig this attitude, because they hope their man will get what THEY want when THEY want it as well.
2.) Protection. I think this applies more to working class communities where resources are sparse and therefore women are less safe. The hottest chicks are usually with buff meatheads in these communities, but you see this less and less as socioeconomic standards increase. That's when girls start seeing $$$$$ instead.

Girls don't sit and flick their beans to images of ripped dudes. They like what the feeling of power brings to their man. The ways they experience attraction are so fundamentally different from ours that we simply can't comprehend them. If you're ripped and handsome but act like a timid bitch, I promise you you will not get ass.

Before I get called out for being a weak-muscled hater, I'm in pretty good shape...pretty much right at that 6'1" 185 mark. Did the jump from a shrimp to this level help me get pussy? Absolutely. But once you start delving into the "buff/jacked" range, I've noticed it limits your versatility and scope. You start catering toward a niche, which seems to be the dumb, vapid blonde bitch.

If you are not naturally good looking, then getting too ripped could actually hurt you when it comes to females. Short guys are especially disadvantaged, because being extremely ripped is an obvious sign the dude is overcompensating for his lack of notches, thinking the muscles will actually help. It undermines the "short guy game" that I've seen a lot of shorties run, which is the funny, quirky charismatic guy vibe.

If you don't have a handsome face, the muscles will hardly help. Tall, slim and toned is the physique that caters to the widest range of chicks.

Game is the ONLY constant. Don't rely on muscles to get girls...use your brain instead.

Post: #206

Forgot to add one important point. The reason why big muscles aren't universally sought after by women is because anyone can get big. Having big muscles in the 21st century indicates almost nothing about the quality of your genes. Back when being a physically dominant male brought you to the top of the totem pole, girls would obviously try to bang the naturally ripped guy. He would provide her protection, security and probably pass down stud genes to sons. It doesn't matter anymore because the loser you knew from elementary school has been working out for 10 years and is ripped now. And he probably still can't get laid because he's still a fucking dork.

Post: #207

You must have very low body fat because I was 185 in high school and college at the same height and I was very skinny.

Post: #208

Djeaters, it's the opposite, girls can't really think away those ancient forces of attraction that are built into our DNA. You don't have to muscles these days, but I believe that almost all girls get tingles in their pussies from seeing muscles on guys.

It can be a subtle thing,

The reason I've voiced concern here about getting too big, is that for some girls, a guy who is extremely ripped or gym cut can look "douchey" or whatever they call it now.

It's all tribalism.. Those girls might count it against a guy in the same way that looking like a hipster would probably count against a guy who is trying to mack it to douchettes.

I actually think that this initial dissonance can parlayed by the master player could use the shock very well and fulfill mysterious outsider archetype.

Post: #209

^ I have never heard of a guy being too ripped or too big. I think people need to realize getting ripped is alot of time and dedication, which most people don't have. The same goes for gaining muscle.
Girls like douche bags because they are confident and arrogant, these guys generally have hot girls around them. I am not advocating being a jersey shore clown.
Now i don't profess to understand or care what women find attractive, so to come out and say 90% of women like guys a certain way is pure bullshit.
6'1" and 185llbs is not attractive in my books, christ I am that weight now as I am "leaning out" but I am two inches shorter. If you live in a place whereby that is considered impressive, well all the power to you.
Now I will say 100% of girls find big muscular guys to be attractive, the good thing is that most girls no a guy like that is out of there league. I don't want most girls, I want the hot girls that feel secure about there bodies and can appreciate a "meathead".

Post: #210

(02-24-2014 08:53 AM)djwaters420 Wrote:  But once you start delving into the "buff/jacked" range, I've noticed it limits your versatility and scope. You start catering toward a niche, which seems to be the dumb, vapid blonde bitch.

Complete nonsense. Guys who have never been big need to stop pretending that they are authorities on how women react to big guys. It's obvious you're talking out of your ass and guarding your own ego. "Guys, the ideal male physique is 6'1" 185 lbs. Oh and by the way, I happen to be 6'1" 185 lbs! Lol what a coincidence!"

The only point some women will start to get turned off by size is when it's either accompanied by a good amount of fat (i.e. NFL offensive linemen), or is freakishly unnatural looking (IFBB pros). And even then, those guys will still get more attraction than a guy with an average physique simply by virtue of size alone.

Bigger is better. This is primal animal kingdom shit that women are hardwired to respond to. Women perceive larger men as more powerful and thus more attractive mates. It's not rocket science.

6'1" 185 is not an unattractive build by any means, and you could pull a lot of girls with it. But saying that anything above that is only attractive to vapid blondes is just hilariously wrong. ALL women respond viscerally to larger men, just like they do to charismatic men or wealthy men. It's impossible to get "too big" in the eyes of the vast majority of women unless you become either obese or have an advanced competition-level bodybuilder physique that is unnatural looking (which is impossible for most guys to achieve even using gear anyway).

In high school I was 6' 160. In college I was 6' 185. Now I am 6' 210. I have been skinny, lean/muscular and buff. I have only gotten better responses from women as I got bigger. I doubt I would see any negative pushback from women until I got into the 240 range, which start to look ridiculously oversized on my frame.

Basically, guys should be lifting heavy and eating big until they run up against the limits of their natural frame, at which point they can either maintain that physique and accept what nature gave them, or get more advanced and try out some gear. But sitting around and rationalizing that women don't like bigger men is just silly. It's literally like saying a man can be too wealthy or too charming.

Post: #211

djwaters420 is a troll. He hits several of the subtle troll angles:

Face trolling: "If you don't have a handsome face, the muscles will hardly help."

Height trolling: "Short guys are especially disadvantaged, because being extremely ripped is an obvious sign the dude is overcompensating for his lack of notches."

Anyone can do it trolling: "The reason why big muscles aren't universally sought after by women is because anyone can get big."

There's no reason to address him in this thread or any other.

Post: #212

(02-24-2014 01:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  djwaters420 is a troll.

I don't know about a troll, but definitely inexperienced. DJ, Mike just answered the thread you started:

(02-21-2014 10:33 AM)djwaters420 Wrote:  First post. After browsing around, I noticed a lot of guys have been "reborn.". The red pill changed their lives dramatically and for the better. A lot of these budding alphas talk mostly about newfound success with women, but I was wondering if any of you ever had a time in your life where you weren't respected by your male peers, weren't taken seriously, etc.

Post: #213

^ Ah, I see he started that thread.

Not to derail this one (although aren't we beating a dead horse by now?)....But.

If you want to gain male respect, here's an idea. If you're new, don't jump in swinging. Now you might think that jumping in aggressively will make men respect you.

It won't, because usually you'll say something that shows you to be inexperienced, naive, etc. (That's natural to be that way, since you're only 23.)

Instead, you sit back. Let the regulars talk. Chime in with a relevant point or two. Show that you're not a troll or a big mouth and that you're interested in having a conversation where you learn and listen and then contribute.

That's how you get respect from other men.

Post: #214

@soup. You're not going to get big on veggies alone..you need protein. That means meat. Soy just converts to estrogens in your body. If you want to gain while keeping the fat off, try a clean bulk with meat, veggie and fruit w/ light carbs on workout days.

Post: #215

Okay, okay. Point taken. Sorry for the negative energy. Gonna stand down and just observe for now.

Post: #216

Post: #217

Feo, I'm an ovolactic vegetarian, so I do eat eggs and can take protein powder. I don't eat meat because it grosses me out.

Post: #218

I don't think that anyone can get too big without using gear. The human body simply won't allow itself to naturally go past what is healthy for it--and that is what i believe women are attracted to in a body--healthy and functional. Once you NEED to use steroids to get more mass, you've reached a point of diminishing return. Once you've maxed out your genetic potential, I believe gains thereafter from steroids will be superfluous.

Post: #219

Scorpion, you seem to think that there no in-between area, and if it's counter to what you want to believe there's instantly zero validity.

Rionomad, who's states no-one wants to date yoga chicks, hipsters or chicks on okcupid, posted this....

6 min on...


he's says,

I'm not into slutty girls, I'm into nice girls and nice girls aren't really into me."

"I'm lucky I already have a girl."

"some chicks think, I'm scary, and I am scary" He also goes on to say you wanna get big do it for yourself, basically cause if your fitness model level, thats more than enough.

This guy is jacked but we can all agree he's not going to be on the cover of any freak muscle mag.

The answer is: of course there's a point of negative returns and before that, diminishing returns. This varies on the target audience. Is there a hard line at 6'3 185? I don't think anyone was saying there is.

But really, social status, integrity and game mean so much more and are likely a much better time investment for a guy who is lean and athletic.

Attractive appearance isn't always hardwired for big either... look at that tribe in kenya that puts out olympian distance runners, the mesomorphic genes seem to be missing in action. Oh but those kenyans are pussies, right?

Well you have to have a circumsion, (sharp rock, no anesthesia) kill some wild game, and actually sprint everywhere for a week, before you'll be considered a man and a provider there.... their pain tolerance is insane.

(02-24-2014 01:21 PM)scorpion Wrote:  

(02-24-2014 08:53 AM)djwaters420 Wrote:  But once you start delving into the "buff/jacked" range, I've noticed it limits your versatility and scope. You start catering toward a niche, which seems to be the dumb, vapid blonde bitch.

Complete nonsense. Guys who have never been big need to stop pretending that they are authorities on how women react to big guys. It's obvious you're talking out of your ass and guarding your own ego. "Guys, the ideal male physique is 6'1" 185 lbs. Oh and by the way, I happen to be 6'1" 185 lbs! Lol what a coincidence!"

The only point some women will start to get turned off by size is when it's either accompanied by a good amount of fat (i.e. NFL offensive linemen), or is freakishly unnatural looking (IFBB pros). And even then, those guys will still get more attraction than a guy with an average physique simply by virtue of size alone.

Bigger is better. This is primal animal kingdom shit that women are hardwired to respond to. Women perceive larger men as more powerful and thus more attractive mates. It's not rocket science.

6'1" 185 is not an unattractive build by any means, and you could pull a lot of girls with it. But saying that anything above that is only attractive to vapid blondes is just hilariously wrong. ALL women respond viscerally to larger men, just like they do to charismatic men or wealthy men. It's impossible to get "too big" in the eyes of the vast majority of women unless you become either obese or have an advanced competition-level bodybuilder physique that is unnatural looking (which is impossible for most guys to achieve even using gear anyway).

In high school I was 6' 160. In college I was 6' 185. Now I am 6' 210. I have been skinny, lean/muscular and buff. I have only gotten better responses from women as I got bigger. I doubt I would see any negative pushback from women until I got into the 240 range, which start to look ridiculously oversized on my frame.

Basically, guys should be lifting heavy and eating big until they run up against the limits of their natural frame, at which point they can either maintain that physique and accept what nature gave them, or get more advanced and try out some gear. But sitting around and rationalizing that women don't like bigger men is just silly. It's literally like saying a man can be too wealthy or too charming.

Post: #220

(02-25-2014 04:45 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  But really, social status, integrity and game mean so much more and are likely a much better time investment for a guy who is lean and athletic.

Guys will disagree about a lot of things and that's great.

But if your source of knowledge is a YouTube video and not real life, then perhaps you should be busier seeking out experience rather than watching Internet TV.

Post: #221

Genetic Fallacy: This conclusion is based on an argument that the origins of a person, idea, institute, or theory determine its character, nature, or worth. Example:

Comes from YouTube, must be wrong. Despite the fact that we are both spending some time commenting on this thread, and I watched the video because it was in this thread. second post.

Also you throw in ad hominem.

You know what I like to solve disagreements? Logic. Are we not the more rational sex?

(02-25-2014 06:47 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 04:45 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  But really, social status, integrity and game mean so much more and are likely a much better time investment for a guy who is lean and athletic.

Guys will disagree about a lot of things and that's great.

But if your source of knowledge is a YouTube video and not real life, then perhaps you should be busier seeking out experience rather than watching Internet TV.

Post: #222

(02-25-2014 07:43 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  You know what I like to solve disagreements? Logic. Are we not the more rational sex?

Why use "logic" and not real life experience?

Because you have none. You're an Internet pretender, a keyboard alpha male.

There are enough places for people to go circle jerk and act like they know something.

This forum rocks because fakers are smoked out quickly.

Post: #223

Sonicboom you need to join djwaters in the newbie forum.

I really don't see how that video helps your argument, the guy states that his physique helps him attract sluts and not nice girls. He claims "nice" girls want skinny guys (beta) and are turned of by guys built like him, he is full of it. How can you take him seriously when he is always flexing his biceps!

But again that is someone else's opinion and experience.

Post: #224

You're using emotional appeals and crying for your tribe to have distain for me? For applying what you call "logic". Is that what your going to stand on?

Ok, I accept that.

(02-25-2014 08:33 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(02-25-2014 07:43 PM)sonicboom Wrote:  You know what I like to solve disagreements? Logic. Are we not the more rational sex?

Why use "logic" and not real life experience?

Because you have none. You're an Internet pretender, a keyboard alpha male.

There are enough places for people to go circle jerk and act like they know something.

This forum rocks because fakers are smoked out quickly.

Post: #225

(02-25-2014 08:52 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Sonicboom you need to join djwaters in the newbie forum.

I really don't see how that video helps your argument, the guy states that his physique helps him attract sluts and not nice girls. He claims "nice" girls want skinny guys (beta) and are turned of by guys built like him, he is full of it. How can you take him seriously when he is always flexing his biceps!

But again that is someone else's opinion and experience.

He says no such thing. Find the timestamp where he is saying anything like skinny guys are desired. Do you enjoy just making up stuff? Is the big boy area only for those with a rich storytelling ability? I just think if you want to counter attack a point, then you actually say true stuff. That's just me.