Post: #626

(08-03-2015 03:12 PM)Phoenix Wrote:  

(08-01-2015 01:27 PM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

Do you think this guy is too big?
Do you think girls would find this physique attractive?

Nah man too big. Dries girls up like talcum powder.

You see, this is what I'm talking about...

That guy has a roid gut that sticks out more than many beer bellies.

You honestly think that most women are into that?

This mass worship is akin to a fat chick saying, "Men prefer voluptuous women...". It's delusional.

EDIT: Forgot to add..the dude's freaking 5'5. Yea - I bet he's pulling like mad.

Post: #627

(08-03-2015 04:59 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  EDIT: Forgot to add..the dude's freaking 5'5. Yea - I bet he's pulling like mad.

Here comes the height trolling....

A good friend of mine is 5'2-5'3' and ripped. He has no shortage of fine broads in his life. He's even got a kid with a legit 8...shes probably 5-8. He shows pics from his phone every once in a while. I'm jealous.

no excuses.

Post: #628

(08-03-2015 05:22 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 04:59 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  EDIT: Forgot to add..the dude's freaking 5'5. Yea - I bet he's pulling like mad.

Here comes the height trolling....

A good friend of mine is 5'2-5'3' and ripped. He has no shortage of fine broads in his life. He's even got a kid with a legit 8...shes probably 5-8. He shows pics from his phone every once in a while. I'm jealous.

no excuses.

Ok, that jab was a bit douchey on my part.

But if anything - too much mass actually hurts shorter guys more. You can throw 30lbs on a 6"2 frame and it's hardly noticeable. The same 30lbs on a 5'5 guy and he starts to look blocky.

My point is proportions matter more than mass. Modern bodybuilding doesn't really get that.

Anyways, I'll bow out of this discussion. It's getting repetitive.

Post: #629

(08-03-2015 04:32 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Birthdaycat - your theory has nothing behind it.
Point 1 - American men have a preference for Latin chicks because they are more feminine and more shapely than American chicks. So I guess the fact Latino women on average have a better physique would prove my point.
Point 2 - Women have different tastes goes without saying, Men have different tastes. A nice physique is a nice physique, whether it be a water polo player or a rugby player. Both have nice symmetry meaning shoulder to waist ratio. There is a reason why male strippers are buffed and women flock to these clubs and carry on like teenage girls. They want to see guys with meat on their bones.
Point 3 - Women generally like guys within their range. If she is a gym bunny she will date a gym rat. If she is into the indie scene, she will date a skinny jeans wearing indie guy.

Years ago I put a shirtless pic on POF and got the most hits ever, guess what they were from a wide range of chicks. You could hardly see my face but that didn't seem to matter. Of course, POF being a cock blocking site removed my pic a day or so. I haven't been on it since.

The guy in the video is an elite bodybuilder, probably less than 1% of the population. There is no point talking about these guys, I am talking about guys that have put a little effort in the gym and look good in a white tshirt or a pair of jeans. Arnie, Zyzz, Jeff Seid etc do not look like myself or anyone on this forum.

Not sure what the debate is and how this topic is debatable. MikeCF on Danger and Play discusses this better than I do.

I could have articulated some of my points more clearly but you also misread some of what I wrote. The point I was trying to make was that this thread is going in circles and will continue to go in circles because (1) guys are looking at these arguments from different perspectives (shirt on vs. shirt off, a girl looking for a boyfriend vs. a girl looking for a ONS, etc.) and (2) women have different preferences so there isn’t a universal answer. I agree that the point of diminishing return is so far beyond where most of us are at that it isn't even worth talking about; however, I don't think any of the guys that believe smaller is better will ever be convinced so the thread will keep going in circles as everyone views their arguments from the perspective that best supports their arguments.

1. I said Latin women and Asian women, not American women. The point is that some guys have a preference for one and some guys have a preference for another. So even if you could show that more guys have a preference for Latin there would still be many that have a preference for Asian so the argument could go on forever.

2. It is interesting that you mention MikeCF because I know he has mentioned this exact thing before - the difference when wearing a shirt. The study that ChickMagnet linked to concludes that women like a smaller leaner physique like Brad Pitt in Fight Club. That study has too many problems to list them all but one of the problems is the study is based on shirtless guys but in the real world we wear shirts. A guy who is very lean with 6 pick abs doesn't have a lot to show when he puts on a shirt and nobody can see his 6 pack abs. If the same guys puts on 20 pounds with half being muscle and half being fat then he is probably going to look a lot bigger and better with a shirt on.

3. I don't know how your point is contradicting my point. One of the things I'm suggesting is that women may say they prefer smaller/leaner as the study concludes but in real life they are attracted to bigger guys either all the time or in some situations. Based on my experience women go for the bigger guys more frequently in short term mating situations such as at bars or when they are on vacation. You mentioned male strippers and I assume that would be the same.

Post: #630

BirthdayCat - I am not attacking you and enjoying debating.

The Brad Pitt look was achieved by using Steroids, it is not his natural look. Put him in a t-shirt and it would not look as impressive.
I watched an Interview with the Superman guy, he has a nice build in that movie. I like the Henley t-shirts he wears which shows off his build nicely. The interviewer asked him if he looked like that now, he laughed and said hell no. After that movie he went and ate a whole pizza plus other junk food.

The Latin women and Asian women thing I hear what you are saying. My buddies last night were making that comparison, they said Asian women are much tighter in the space between their legs. As long as they look good, I don't care if they are Latin or Asian. As Moma stated as long as they have a nice body, they can be black, white, yellow, orange or blue.

I hate all these studies, I am basing my observations on real world experiences. Why argue, why not get fit or the best possible shape you can be in. It is another arsenal in your belt, in terms of cost it is inexpensive. You can go the local playground and do bar work, which is great for increasing back size and arm development.

Post: #631

(08-03-2015 06:34 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  BirthdayCat - I am not attacking you and enjoying debating.

The Brad Pitt look was achieved by using Steroids, it is not his natural look. Put him in a t-shirt and it would not look as impressive.

Dude...

Pitt was 155lbs at 5'11 for that movie. If you can't achieve that natty, then best to take up another sport like ping pong.

Anyways, that's roughly the level of muscularity that I think girls find attractive (with study after study supporting it). Though I think a bit more mass is preferable.

Post: #632

^

http://www.isteroids.com/Brad_Pitt_Steroid_Cycles.html^

Post: #633

Hey rudeboy, I'm getting a 404 error from that link.

Post: #634

(08-03-2015 12:37 PM)Moma Wrote:  Archie, there is a problem (which I was discussing with my co-host RudeBwoy) where people start to look for the easy route out of things. Because lifting weights is hard work and people just want some magic phrase that will cause the hottest girls to fall into lustful threesomes, they keep insisting that looks don't matter.

With my very eyes, in any continent on the planet, people are responsive to a nice body. Black, white, green, yellow or purple..a solid well formed body telegraphs sexuality. I've been privy to it and I have seen others reap from it.

But every page in the thread, people insist that it doesn't matter then they turn around and quote height. They say it attracts the wrong type of lizard and then they start talking about how money is important and logistics etc.
They say "Oh I asked this lizard and she said it's too much muscle" when one of the game mantras that should be hardcoded into the skull is to NEVER listen to what a lizard says but look at what she DOES.

I can go on and on but you get my drift *munches on a piece of chicken after a vigorous gym session from yesterday*

I think we're on the same page.

To me the most credible information in this post are the guys who were say 5'10 and 170 lbs, and went up to 185 lbs, and suddenly the game flies open. Bitches checking for him, chicks feeling his chest, shoulders, biceps. Big long hugs, holding onto his arm. That type of shit makes you feel like the man. That journey is worth it.

I think the original question here was, if now the guy @ 185 decides he wants to gain another 20 lbs of muscle - is that journey worth it?

I don't know what it takes from personal experience, but I can read.
To look like one of them dudes from the cover of the magazine
- YEARS OF HARD WORK
- consistent gym
- consistent diet
- never fucking up, never fucking around
- no injuries
- adequate sleep, rest, days off, massages, stretching
- coaching sometimes
- deep internal motivation (sometimes it's an unhealthy obsession with body image)

Is that worth it?

A dude that's already in good shape wants to go from ripped to JACKED.

The guys that claim to be JACKED said the answer is yes.

Everything else that I'm reading just doesn't really seem to deal with the central issue.

WIA

Post: #635

(01-30-2014 09:34 PM)Rompetoto Wrote:  I'll chime in on this. At my biggest I was 250lbs running 700mg of test e along with 50mg dbol pre-workout. I was holding a lot of water so I was huge but smooth. I would say I was around 9 percent body fat. The vast majority of attention I was getting was from older women.Young chicks wouldn't even make eye contact with me.

This makes sense - most of the women who go to see the Chippendales dance are old broads - not young hot things.

Post: #636

(08-03-2015 07:12 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  ^

http://www.isteroids.com/Brad_Pitt_Steroid_Cycles.html

Not sure if you're being serious?

That site peddles steroids. It's in their interest to say the fight club body can't be attained naturally.

Frankly, I can't believe we're debating this. Eunuchs aside, ANY 5'11 dude could get to 155lbs at 5-6% bodyfat. They might not look exactly like Pitt due to different bones structures and muscle insertions. But pretty damn close.

Post: #637

^ Exactly. I know dudes who are built the same as Pitt in Fight club who don't even work out.

Post: #638

Not all roids make you big, there are some that can make you cut up like a mofo.

Trust me he took winstrol or clenbuterol to achieve that diced look.

If ANY dude could get to that 5%-6% I would see more guys cut up like that, I don't. You do realize to get under 12% bodyfat is pretty hard.

Post: #639

(08-03-2015 06:34 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  I hate all these studies, I am basing my observations on real world experiences. Why argue, why not get fit or the best possible shape you can be in. It is another arsenal in your belt, in terms of cost it is inexpensive. You can go the local playground and do bar work, which is great for increasing back size and arm development.

My real world experience, primarily going to black and latin clubs, hip hop nights @ white spots in the US. I don't really box with the fraternity keg parties, or white spots with 20 dollar martinis and shit. I still can't tell the difference between Kate Upton and Charlotte McKinney.

   

So I don't honestly know how much muscles make a difference in their world. Jersey Shore made it seem like the really brolic dude wasn't as good as "The Situation". Though they both had game, they understood what their women wanted, and they gave it to them.

But where I'm coming from

- tall dudes are a dime a dozen
- guys with muscles are common as fuck

   

I don't know how well those dudes do outside of the club environment, but night game wise - none of that shit gives them an edge. There's like 12 other crews in the club that look just like this on any given Saturday night.

That physique might make for good Tinder profiles, or if you got a chick back at the spot and you casually take your dress shirt off to the wife beater underneath...

But when it comes to full contact night game - it's not doing as much work as people would like to think.

WIA

Post: #640

(08-03-2015 08:49 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Not all roids make you big, there are some that can make you cut up like a mofo.

Trust me he took winstrol or clenbuterol to achieve that diced look.

If ANY dude could get to that 5%-6% I would see more guys cut up like that, I don't. You do realize to get under 12% bodyfat is pretty hard.

You're convinced...so I won't try to dissuade you.

But your average 5'11 dude weighs about 190lbs. Get him down to 155 (while lifting heavy) and he's going to be cut up.

It's very attainable natty. You're just barely carrying any mass at that weight (fat or muscle). I don't find it impressive even. But chicks dig it so...

Honestly, it's gotten a bit silly these days where anybody who looks half-decent is "obviously juicing". Just look at the old-time strongmen like Eugen Sandow (way bigger than Pitt), decades before roids were invented.

Post: #641

(08-03-2015 08:20 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  I think the original question here was, if now the guy @ 185 decides he wants to gain another 20 lbs of muscle - is that journey worth it?

I don't know what it takes from personal experience, but I can read.
To look like one of them dudes from the cover of the magazine
- YEARS OF HARD WORK
- consistent gym
- consistent diet
- never fucking up, never fucking around
- no injuries
- adequate sleep, rest, days off, massages, stretching
- coaching sometimes
- deep internal motivation (sometimes it's an unhealthy obsession with body image)

Is that worth it?

A dude that's already in good shape wants to go from ripped to JACKED.

The guys that claim to be JACKED said the answer is yes.

Everything else that I'm reading just doesn't really seem to deal with the central issue.

WIA

Yes and no.

I'm around 5'11'' and started lifting weights HARD when I was 15 and got up over 200lbs of mostly muscle by 18. Since then I've bounced around everywhere from 178-200lbs.

I've never really known what it's like to not have this kind of a body, but here is what I have experienced.

The best my body ever was for me was when I did a cut from 200+ lbs down to about 195lbs my freshman year of college. I had single digit body fat numbers and game was very easy. Girls would get obsessed with my body and I feel like my personality hardly mattered. Girls really liked to touch me. I was a jacked guy that girls would sport fuck for that reason only.

After two years of hard partying I was just under 190lbs but there was a bit more fat. Girls were still into my body but not on the crazed level that they were before. However, just having that size with the muscle means girls will bang you because of it.

Then I decided to cut down again. This time I hit 178lbs and had single digit body fat, however I didn't get the same reaction that I used to get when I was 195lbs and in the single digits. Girls would still tell me I had huge arms and they would cuddle up next to me and cling on to the arm, but I didn't see that look in their eyes that I had seen before.

Now I am probably around 185 and 10% body fat. Far from the elite body that I used to have but I know I still get bangs because of my body. I feel good about it but only because most guys look like shit. Knowing what my body used to look like and what it looks like now is kind of depressing even if I'm still in the top tier.

I answered yes and no because it does take a lot of work to be on that level where girls get that obsessed about your body. I was putting in 2ish hours of gym time per day when I was at my peak. Now I do 45mins-1.5hrs and don't work out nearly as hard as before.

You have to make the decision if you want to put in the extra work to get on that level.

I think it's worth it to do it at least once just to know what it feels like. After that you have to decide if the extra time and effort is worth it.

If you have extra spare time I think it's worth it. It's fucking fun to have girls following you with a crazed look in their eyes. At the same time you have to understand what you are to those girls and adjust your game accordingly. When you are jacked girls expect you to act a certain way and if your game is wonky it will probably throw them off. They expect a jock and that is what you should give them.

If you have other projects going on then it might not be worth it. You still get girls who will fuck you for your body it just isn't as intense. You aren't the same sport fuck that you are at the elite level.

Post: #642

Chick Magnet - how tall are you and how much do you weigh? Why don't you tell us your "personal" experiences and how girls or people have perceived you.

I am 5 feet 11 and hover between 197 and 200. For me to lose 45 pounds would be virtually impossible.

I am not some johnny cum lately, I know about roids and who is on it.

The Pitt on roids is a very old argument, as old as the movie he starred in The Fight Club.

Post: #643

(08-03-2015 09:07 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Chick Magnet - how tall are you and how much do you weigh? Why don't you tell us your "personal" experiences and how girls or people have perceived you.

I am 5 feet 11 and hover between 197 and 200. For me to lose 45 pounds would be virtually impossible.

I am not some johnny cum lately, I know about roids and who is on it.

The Pitt on roids is a very old argument, as old as the movie he starred in The Fight Club.

You're sidetracking...but I'll bite.

I'm 6"2, 180lbs about 7-8% bodyfat. I've been up to 210 at similar leanness back in the bodybuilding days. I don't even lift much anymore - mainly callisthenics.

I get approached way more often now than back then. It's night and day.

P.S. "The world is flat" is another old time argument. Age and reason don't always go hand in hand.

Post: #644

Chick Magnet, upload a pic of your frame with your face blurred out. If you are 7-8 body fat, you are going to look striated like a mother.

If possible, upload a pic of your frame from the old days when you were 210 at 7-8 percent body fat.

Post: #645

WIA, the pic of those guys you posted look like they were spewed out from a hip hop joint in NYC or Houston. Now in clubs like those, the expectations are much higher since height and muscle comes in droves.

When I talk to the black lizards here, they are not blown away by my physique (not saying I look like those bros in the pic though) since a lot of the brothas in America had aspirations of playing in the NFL and have the leftover football physique or maybe just hood muscle physique.
A ripped body won't blow these cats away as much as it would in a non black community or circle. However, piquing sexual interest is still a factor and even though for instance, black guys are used to a lotta ass and thighs..they will still be like dayum if a lizard walks in stacked with all that.

However, for all purposes, when we talk about impact on lizards, we are talking about the average spread with attraction. Not just limiting it to the hip hop night club scene but in Walmart, in the bank, in school, in Home Depot.

Example: I went to Bed, Bath and Beyond to return an item on Saturday. I was told by <insert family member> in Miami to always try and look good when going out even if it's just a basic errand. You never know who you are going to see and you want to give the best impression you can. This is why I noticed some unusually hot dimes at time in just the food court in Miami, looking better than many lizards I've seen at their so called best for a night club scene.

Anyway, I wore a tight shirt and got out of my car. I saw a young Hispanic lizard walking with her tia or madre coming from the store. She saw me and froze for a second. From experience, I know that's cos my body was looking right.

The point here is, that could be a potential connect and who goes to Bed, Bath and Beyond to pull boriquas?

Post: #646

I'm 5'11, 190 lbs and would classify myself as ripped rather than jacked but to me, diet is the hardest part of building muscle. At 24 I have a pretty good metabolism and can eat pretty much eat whatever I want without putting on weight but it's also extremely hard to eat enough clean calories a day to gain muscle mass. I'll feel completely jacked after a gym session (and often get compliments about my build) because of the pump but a few hours later this disappears and it feels like a waste of time. It's really frustrating when you put so much hard work in at the gym and although it keeps you in decent shape, never really have much in terms of size to show for it with a shirt on.

Post: #647

(08-03-2015 09:18 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  I'm 6"2, 180lbs about 7-8% bodyfat. I've been up to 210 at similar leanness back in the bodybuilding days. I don't even lift much anymore - mainly callisthenics.

I get approached way more often now than back then. It's night and day.

You're 7% bodyfat? Thats competition bodybuilding level. Like the other posters, I would have serious doubts of this. How are you measuring your bodyfat? Its rare to find anyone whos not a professional athlete with sub 10% bf for any duration of time - it requires completely controlling your diet AND exercising excessively.

If you were 30lbs of muscle heavier "in your bodybuilding days" than now you would have noticed a night and day difference in attention from women. Between the above two points and your ignorance on Miami...

There's no point in even bringing professional bodybuilders into the discussion, as they're on whole heaps of gear. The better benchmarks are elite level field athletes - NFL/rugby etc - that require both strength and CV endurance (and are theoretically drug tested). They're the absolute top of the physical pile naturally: years and years of training, and perfect diet, and great genetics. And being realistic are a lot larger than most guys will ever get because of this. But they're a semi-realistic benchmark, at least.

Posts like General Mayhem's mirror the exact experience I've had in real life (and discussed in this thread), and have seen others go through. Essentially: unless you do steroids, you can't get "too big".

The only people who seem to think you can get too big are those making excuses for skipping the gym.

@ Adrenaline thats unfortunately the "Australia" factor hitting you hard I'd say. At 5ft 11 190lbs you'd be big enough to stand out in a lot of places in the world. Oz and the beachier parts of the U.S. are just the most competitive physical environments around.

Post: #648

(08-03-2015 08:52 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  But where I'm coming from

- tall dudes are a dime a dozen
- guys with muscles are common as fuck



I don't know how well those dudes do outside of the club environment, but night game wise - none of that shit gives them an edge. There's like 12 other crews in the club that look just like this on any given Saturday night.

That physique might make for good Tinder profiles, or if you got a chick back at the spot and you casually take your dress shirt off to the wife beater underneath...

But when it comes to full contact night game - it's not doing as much work as people would like to think.

WIA

It may not give an "edge" in certain environments, but that makes me think it becomes even more important to be as big as you can. If everyone else is big and those girls expect big then you'd better be around the minimum they go for.

Post: #649

General Mayehm - +1 from me because you nailed it.

Like you stated, there is nothing like seeing a girl with a crazed look in her eyes as she touches your body.

WIA - Those dudes are jacked to say the least, the guy in the far left has crazy forearms. Not sure if it is the pic but look how he is standing, his stance seems off to me. The other guy flexing with the tattoo arm seems funny to me. It would be hard to compete against those guys physically, but I suspect they might be pro athletes.

Post: #650

(08-04-2015 09:16 AM)rudebwoy Wrote:  General Mayehm - +1 from me because you nailed it.

Like you stated, there is nothing like seeing a girl with a crazed look in her eyes as she touches your body.

WIA - Those dudes are jacked to say the least, the guy in the far left as crazy forearms. Not sure if it is the pic but look how he is standing, his stance seems off to me. The other guy flexing with the tattoo arm seems funny to me. It would be hard to compete against those guys physically, but I suspect they might be pro athletes.

LOL, You dudes are taking the wrong lessons from the photos.

If the club is black and brown, there are MULTIPLE crews that look like they could be on the bench for an NFL team. MULTIPLE. I can't really find the pics for the NBA rejects, but that's the other "problem". I don't even know what they feeding these kids, but even "average" guys now are 6'+.

These guys aren't special in Houston, Atlanta, or NYC. Maybe that's not the case elsewhere, but I've been dealing with these goons for 15 years. All they do is take up space.

For those w/o this experience, all of these guys are more "alpha" than you.
They will always be more "alpha" than you.
All of these dudes hit those primal attraction switches in women without saying a word.

You're not catching up to these guys, not in 3 months, not in 6 months, maybe not even in a year.

Same thing can be said for stockbrokers in nyc. You go to a dope spot in NYC, ALL THOSE DUDES HAVE MORE MONEY THAN YOU CAN COUNT. The ones that stand out, have gobs of money, gobs of cocaine, great addresses, better cars.

How can you hope to compete?

These specimens of perfect men
Captains of industry...

If women were rational...

WIA