Post: #601

(08-01-2015 01:27 PM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

Do you think this guy is too big?
Do you think girls would find this physique attractive?

Is that you?

Post: #602

I think there is a sliding scale you have less chance of looking like a meat head and having to dial down aggression as you get older.

For instance a guy at 6'0" at a lean 205lbs which is a very decent size at 25 may be his ideal size at that age. Any bigger and he may be getting into good looking territory or have to over come being seen as meathead first, smooth talker second.

At 45 years old or 55 years old I think that same guy looks even better being bigger.

It is easy to be an older man that is starting to look worn and elderly, it is hard to look like an older man meathead. You just end up look more virile and statured if you are big.

Be big, just keep getting bigger as you get older, which is tough as hell. Super TRT in the future though.

Post: #603

(08-01-2015 02:38 PM)Moma Wrote:  Is that you?

That is Frank Zane, three times Mr. Olympia and considered by many to be the owner of the most aesthetic muscular physique of all time.

Post: #604

Funny, I was looking through Flex magazine the other day. It featured Frank Zane, who I was shocked to find out was only 5 feet 9 and 185 llbs. I think Franco Colombo was pretty short as well.

Post: #605

As far as bodybuilders go, Zane has/had a very aesthetic physique. It's really a shame bodybuilding has gotten so freaky these days. The guys from the 70s and 80s had a good look.

But still - I think MOST women would find Zane's physique "too much".

Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ. A small subset of chicks will go for it. But I'd say the majority of women (and the hottest) will be turned off, especially outside the U.S.

Post: #606

(08-02-2015 07:20 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  As far as bodybuilders go, Zane has/had a very aesthetic physique. It's really a shame bodybuilding has gotten so freaky these days. The guys from the 70s and 80s had a good look.

But still - I think MOST women would find Zane's physique "too much".

Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ. A small subset of chicks will go for it. But I'd say the majority of women (and the hottest) will be turned off, especially outside the U.S.

You know this guy and Arnold got laid like a motherfucker right?

Post: #607

I think zane's physique is great and most girls would smell the testosterone dripping from him from miles away. I don't need to be 185 at 5'8, for example, but I think a guy tends to look better with a little meat on him (within reason, of course).

Post: #608

I think guys generally tend to over-look the importance of looks in picking up girls. Unless you look like an absolute super model, the field is level for 90% of guys. Game, personality and status are way more important than looks. In terms of looks, its more important not to be fat, and pay mild attention to your grooming and wardrobe than it is to be 200 pounds of muscle with 7% body fat.

Also, keep in mind that while women liking muscles is universal, the concept of being muscular varies by region. In North America, the whole beef-head look is generally more appreciated than most parts of the world. In Europe for example, 160 pound soccer players are considered muscular.

To me the importance of looks is just like the importance of intelligence in school. Sure, you may have extremely intelligent classmates who do not need to study hard to get A's, but if you put in the work necessary, chances are you can be an A student as well.

Post: #609

(08-03-2015 09:31 AM)Jetlagged Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 07:20 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  As far as bodybuilders go, Zane has/had a very aesthetic physique. It's really a shame bodybuilding has gotten so freaky these days. The guys from the 70s and 80s had a good look.

But still - I think MOST women would find Zane's physique "too much".

Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ. A small subset of chicks will go for it. But I'd say the majority of women (and the hottest) will be turned off, especially outside the U.S.

You know this guy and Arnold got laid like a motherfucker right?

Arnold was a movie star.

Zane's been married to the same broad since he was 24. Hardly a playboy.

Post: #610

(08-02-2015 07:20 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  As far as bodybuilders go, Zane has/had a very aesthetic physique. It's really a shame bodybuilding has gotten so freaky these days. The guys from the 70s and 80s had a good look.

But still - I think MOST women would find Zane's physique "too much".

Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ. A small subset of chicks will go for it. But I'd say the majority of women (and the hottest) will be turned off, especially outside the U.S.

Chick Magnet, how do you know most women would find Zane's physique too much? Have you ever heard of a man turn down a woman because her breasts are too well rounded and succulent or her buttocks too symmetrical and curved?

Post: #611

(08-03-2015 11:12 AM)Moma Wrote:  

(08-02-2015 07:20 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  As far as bodybuilders go, Zane has/had a very aesthetic physique. It's really a shame bodybuilding has gotten so freaky these days. The guys from the 70s and 80s had a good look.

But still - I think MOST women would find Zane's physique "too much".

Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ. A small subset of chicks will go for it. But I'd say the majority of women (and the hottest) will be turned off, especially outside the U.S.

Chick Magnet, how do you know most women would find Zane's physique too much?

Just personal experience.

I'm from Miami - which probably has the biggest muscle culture in the world. Yet I've never seen those dudes walking around with the hottest chicks. Slim/lean guys (with some muscle) take the cake. In Europe or Asia, that's even more the case.

But if you want a study - here ya go.

Quote:Have you ever heard of a man turn down a woman because her breasts are too well rounded and succulent or her buttocks too symmetrical and curved?

It's hardly a relevant comparison.

Many women naturally have nice tits and ass - without stepping foot in the gym.

You're not gonna look like Frank Zane without being a complete gym rat (and using lots of AAS).

Women know that. It comes across as try hard, and most find it a turn off for a man to be that obsessed with his appearance.

Post: #612

Chick Magnet, I lived in Miami for a solid year and went out almost nightly. I have seasoned connections down there that have been there through the good and bad and none of them will say that looking like Frank Zane will cost you in terms of lizards.

I didn't not see this to be the case there at all. Well over 70 percent of Miami use enhancements (boob jobs for lizards and ass plants, tummy tucks) were as common as a dye job in a hipster village. The fact that the men are using gear to achieve that promise would make no difference to the lizards there. Shallowness is a huge part of that culture and the end result is all people care about..no one cares about how you got there.

That being said, I will respectfully but entirely disagree with your premise that:

a) Women in Miami are turned off by an aesthetic physique like Frank's and

b) Looking like Frank will lead them to believe that one is on gear and thus a 'tryhard'.

Post: #613

(08-03-2015 11:56 AM)Moma Wrote:  Chick Magnet, I lived in Miami for a solid year and went out almost nightly. I have seasoned connections down there that have been there through the good and bad and none of them will say that looking like Frank Zane will cost you in terms of lizards.

I didn't not see this to be the case there at all. Well over 70 percent of Miami use enhancements (boob jobs for lizards and ass plants, tummy tucks) were as common as a dye job in a hipster village. The fact that the men are using gear to achieve that promise would make no difference to the lizards there. Shallowness is a huge part of that culture and the end result is all people care about..no one cares about how you got there.

That being said, I will respectfully but entirely disagree with your premise that:

a) Women in Miami are turned off by an aesthetic physique like Frank's and

b) Looking like Frank will lead them to believe that one is on gear and thus a 'tryhard'.

I didn't say Frank Zane types didn't get laid. I just never saw them with the best talent.

You say you spent a year in Miami - so you should also know the "shallowness" there is more material than physical. (ie...A lot of pot-bellied middle aged Cuban dudes walking around with models.)

Money>looks there by a long mile.

But anyways, I was speaking globally. I still maintain, Frank Zane would not be the physical ideal for most women - even in Miami (where it'd work in your favour more than anywhere).

You're free to disagree with that of course.

Post: #614

The debate rages.

1) is there such thing as too big?

Most say yes.
Some say no.

2) will 10-20 lbs more muscle on a muscular guy make
- more hot women approach me
- my approaches better received by hot women

And there are a ton of people replying to some question that has been asked, or answering a question they wish was asked.

WIA

Post: #615

(08-03-2015 12:15 PM)Chick Magnet Wrote:  

(08-03-2015 11:56 AM)Moma Wrote:  Chick Magnet, I lived in Miami for a solid year and went out almost nightly. I have seasoned connections down there that have been there through the good and bad and none of them will say that looking like Frank Zane will cost you in terms of lizards.

I didn't not see this to be the case there at all. Well over 70 percent of Miami use enhancements (boob jobs for lizards and ass plants, tummy tucks) were as common as a dye job in a hipster village. The fact that the men are using gear to achieve that promise would make no difference to the lizards there. Shallowness is a huge part of that culture and the end result is all people care about..no one cares about how you got there.

That being said, I will respectfully but entirely disagree with your premise that:

a) Women in Miami are turned off by an aesthetic physique like Frank's and

b) Looking like Frank will lead them to believe that one is on gear and thus a 'tryhard'.

I didn't say Frank Zane types didn't get laid. I just never saw them with the best talent.

You say you spent a year in Miami - so you should also know the "shallowness" there is more material than physical. (ie...A lot of pot-bellied middle aged Cuban dudes walking around with models.)

Money>looks there by a long mile.

But anyways, I was speaking globally. I still maintain, Frank Zane would not be the physical ideal for most women - even in Miami (where it'd work in your favour more than anywhere).

You're free to disagree with that of course.

I do agree that money is paramount to all in Miami but then that is for another thread.

I guarantee lizards love that look in general, that's how much I am willing to stand by a symmetrical muscular Frank Zane look.

Post: #616

Archie, there is a problem (which I was discussing with my co-host RudeBwoy) where people start to look for the easy route out of things. Because lifting weights is hard work and people just want some magic phrase that will cause the hottest girls to fall into lustful threesomes, they keep insisting that looks don't matter.

With my very eyes, in any continent on the planet, people are responsive to a nice body. Black, white, green, yellow or purple..a solid well formed body telegraphs sexuality. I've been privy to it and I have seen others reap from it.

But every page in the thread, people insist that it doesn't matter then they turn around and quote height. They say it attracts the wrong type of lizard and then they start talking about how money is important and logistics etc.
They say "Oh I asked this lizard and she said it's too much muscle" when one of the game mantras that should be hardcoded into the skull is to NEVER listen to what a lizard says but look at what she DOES.

I can go on and on but you get my drift *munches on a piece of chicken after a vigorous gym session from yesterday*

Post: #617

I'm going to start making people go through me before speaking on Miami.

The pot-bellied latinos walking around with "models" are power simps -- I put "models" in quotes because most of those chicks don't do any paid work outside of "branding", most photographers here are using that hustle to fuck bitches they couldn't otherwise fuck. The old papis either pay strippers/escorts to go to high-end clubs, bars, lounges, etc. which gives them the appearance of being high-value men with attractive women, or they have a woman in their lives who they fully support financially -- however, those chicks still do fuck other men, because they're still sexually attracted to other men, and other men try to fuck them all the time whether they are in a relationship or not, this is a no fucks given city, when you slip to the bathroom, guys will push up on your chick, chicks will do shit like lie about working late, wait for you to go out of town, etc. to immediately hit the clubs and look for dick.

When guys start talking about money as it relates to game, they are speaking on something that matters in terms of relationships.

When guys start talking about looks as it relates to game, they are speaking on something that matters in terms of casual sex.

Women in Miami are not relationship material, but are perfect for casual sex -- you don't "date" here, but you can fuck all the time. They are not people who you should be trying to do the real life shit with, i.e. get married, start families, pay bills. Most are already doing that with other men, they are deep into what I call "relationships of convenience", married or not, marriage means shit here, guys cheat if they can, girls cheat if they want.

A guy who has his life in order, which means he at least has his money right and is decent-looking and in above-average shape, he can clean up with bitches as just a "fun guy" who girls can have casual sex with as an escape from the men who are taking care of them, but who they don't want to fuck, baby daddies, jealous exes, and all the other stresses in their lives that they've brought onto themselves because they were raised in broken, chaotic homes living the fast life in the fast city with fast people.

Post: #618

(08-03-2015 12:37 PM)Moma Wrote:  Archie, there is a problem (which I was discussing with my co-host RudeBwoy) where people start to look for the easy route out of things. Because lifting weights is hard work and people just want some magic phrase that will cause the hottest girls to fall into lustful threesomes, they keep insisting that looks don't matter.

With my very eyes, in any continent on the planet, people are responsive to a nice body. Black, white, green, yellow or purple..a solid well formed body telegraphs sexuality. I've been privy to it and I have seen others reap from it.

But every page in the thread, people insist that it doesn't matter then they turn around and quote height. They say it attracts the wrong type of lizard and then they start talking about how money is important and logistics etc.
They say "Oh I asked this lizard and she said it's too much muscle" when one of the game mantras that should be hardcoded into the skull is to NEVER listen to what a lizard says but look at what she DOES.

I can go on and on but you get my drift *munches on a piece of chicken after a vigorous gym session from yesterday*

Of course looks matter.

The debate here is what is the ideal look?

I don't think it's a bodybuilder anywhere in the world. Lean and well-built...sure. Roidhead - nope.

Frank Zane would lose big points just for being short. A lanky 6'2 guy (think Ryan Reynolds) would out-pull him.

Ryan Reynolds still lifts and busts ass in the gym. So nobody's saying dont lift. But you can definitely have too much of a good thing.

Post: #619

You really think girls give a toss if you are on steroids and look like a meathead?
I have tried them and reached a weight 215llbs(5,11)and girls were touching me like a piece of meat. I wouldn't call that try hard, to me that definition applies to dudes in their high end cars posing in front of clubs.
The only girls who complain about guys being too muscular or too veiny are girls I wouldn't want. Since we are talking about Arnie, look who he ended up marrying. I am sure Maria Shriver wasn't complaining to her old money crew about Arnold being too big.
How can you talk about what is acceptable globally? In my travels I have found a lot of guys are just as obsessed with big arms and chest as we are in the West. They may not have a gym on every corner or the supplements, but trust me they are working out. I have lived in Europe and worked out in gyms in Scandinavia, East Europe, Western Europe and the Caribbean.
Girls have been very receptive to a bit of muscle, it made the interaction a lot smoother. As for soccer players, the only reason they get girls is because of the money they make, their status and some of them look like male models (Cristiano Ronaldo). Girls aren't going around saying they want 160llb guys in Europe. I am sorry but being 160llbs is only acceptable if you are a rockstar like Iggy Pop or Mick Jagger or if you are a young adult.
I follow BarStarzz, exercises they do in playgrounds to get in shape. It started of as something they did in the inner city of New York, now they have competitions all over the world, Russia, Ukraine and Colombia to name a few.
The Miami reference is hilarious, the fittest guys I have seen have been dudes in gyms in Miami/Fort Lauderdale. Yes, I have seen fat dudes with top notch chicks but we all know what that is about.
To answer the original question, there might be diminishing returns once you hit like 230llbs or more. Since the average man is about 180llbs, they will not have to worry about that. They should be more concerned about staying in shape, having a flat stomach and a toned physique. I know first hand about being out of shape and all the sly comments people use to make. I had a girl grab my arm and tell me I needed to work out, this was a co-worker I had no interest in but the comment stays fresh in my mind.

Post: #620

3 reasons why this thread could keep going in circles, maybe up to 100 pages.

1. Different women have different preferences. This debate isn't much different from debating whether American men have a stronger preference for Latin women or Asian women. Some prefer one and some prefer the other. There isn't a correct answer.

2. Women have different preferences when men are wearing shirts versus when men are shirtless. A lot of this is comparing apples and oranges. All those studies about how women rate shirtless men are irrelevant if you wear shirts.

3. Women have different preferences in different situations. Many women may prefer the lean guy in a relationship but when many of those women go to the bar or go on vacation, they will throw themselves at the big guy.

Quote:Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ.

And a lot of guys like that get laid all the time.

Post: #621

(08-03-2015 02:56 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

Quote:Whether it's true or not, a guy with that bod is going to be pigeon-holed as a narcissistic gym rat with a low IQ.

And a lot of guys like that get laid all the time.

Sounds almost ideal in Australia actually. He could just say he's a sportsman, the girls IQs are the same so they can't tell anyway.

Post: #622

(08-01-2015 01:27 PM)ComebackKid Wrote:  

Do you think this guy is too big?
Do you think girls would find this physique attractive?

Nah man too big. Dries girls up like talcum powder.

Post: #623

Its pretty obvious that you will find more guys that have lost lays due to being too skinny than you will find guys that lost lays due to being too big.

You have guys on this forum that are professional body builders and have spent years or decades working out. I would put every cent I have on them getting more bangs due to their physique than losing bangs because of it.

Its always fat chicks that talk about not working out because they don't want to get too muscular. And its always weak skinny dudes that talk about not working out because they don't want to get too big.

Post: #624

25 pages...

No one really knows, just do the best you can with your life.

Do things that make you happy.

If what you are doing isn't making you happy, then evaluate and try other approaches.

Lifting is just one component. Some dudes can't get big, others get fat easy. Just the way life is.

People are just sharing their thoughts, take what works for you and apply it.

But save energy hating on other ideas, just go forward with your life. Really nothing else makes sense to me.

You win some you lose some. You get some chicks, you don't get some chicks. Trying to figure out why, you may miss the next chick and lose a lot of time. There is no perfect answer.

But I do suggest doing things that make you happy, not because you think you will get a girl. If you do it and don't get the girl, you will just get frustrated.

Post: #625

Birthdaycat - your theory has nothing behind it.
Point 1 - American men have a preference for Latin chicks because they are more feminine and more shapely than American chicks. So I guess the fact Latino women on average have a better physique would prove my point.
Point 2 - Women have different tastes goes without saying, Men have different tastes. A nice physique is a nice physique, whether it be a water polo player or a rugby player. Both have nice symmetry meaning shoulder to waist ratio. There is a reason why male strippers are buffed and women flock to these clubs and carry on like teenage girls. They want to see guys with meat on their bones.
Point 3 - Women generally like guys within their range. If she is a gym bunny she will date a gym rat. If she is into the indie scene, she will date a skinny jeans wearing indie guy.

Years ago I put a shirtless pic on POF and got the most hits ever, guess what they were from a wide range of chicks. You could hardly see my face but that didn't seem to matter. Of course, POF being a cock blocking site removed my pic a day or so. I haven't been on it since.

The guy in the video is an elite bodybuilder, probably less than 1% of the population. There is no point talking about these guys, I am talking about guys that have put a little effort in the gym and look good in a white tshirt or a pair of jeans. Arnie, Zyzz, Jeff Seid etc do not look like myself or anyone on this forum.

Not sure what the debate is and how this topic is debatable. MikeCF on Danger and Play discusses this better than I do.