The reason I would never do steroids until I'm around 40 is because of the "the journey is the goal" mantra.

I'd much rather struggle on that baby weight, to show me that life isn't always easy. Patience is taught. Along with humility.

And when I break through that plateau, I will know it's from sheer hard work and dedication. If I did it with no help, then I know it's all from me, not from my "supplementation".

I believe there is nothing better than lifting natural. It's amazing for your confidence, and not just from your physique.

After 5 years of doing such, I've came out an 100% better person. Handling rejections is easy for me now and I can shrug it off like nothing, just like if I failed on deadlifts last week. So what? I'll try next week.

And when you get that goal weight off the floor/bench, it's almost as good as having sex with a beautiful women.

But it doesn't stop there...nothing does.

And that's what makes me hungry for success.

(05-05-2015 12:11 PM)Aer Wrote:  And when you get that goal weight off the floor/bench, it's almost as good as having sex with a beautiful women.

Great post man.

I love the end of the workout, it's a clear journey in which at the end, you're better off than where you started.

I probably won't be shooting any gear for aesthetic purposes until my thirties. I may go on TRT sooner than that for health purposes.

Chris Rock in an interview that came out today:

Quote:Chris Rock arrives at the Guardian US office in New York looking more like an intern turning up for work experience than the man widely agreed to be one of the greatest standup comedians of all time. This is partly because, even though he has been famous since the early 90s, he carries none of the usual baggage of an American celebrity. He has come from his home in New Jersey on his own, and with no “Look at me, I’m famous!” attitude. But it is also partly because, despite turning 50, he has the slight build of a teenager.

“Still skinny. I work out now, because you have to when you’re single,” he says, making a gentle reference to his recent divorce from his wife of almost 20 years, Malaak Compton. “But I’m still skinny.”

http://www.theguardian.com/stage/2015/ma...ta-my-mind

I hate when fat women make self-deprecating comments about their weight and then try to pretend like they're really laughing it off.



If your wife is fat, my assumption is that you're ass is broke.

There's too many fine women out here -- especially where I'm at -- for dudes to be wifing up fat bitches, most of them are fake dimes and not wifey material, but that's cool, I rather stay single and smash hotties than go to bed every night and wake up every morning next to a reminder of failure.

(05-05-2015 12:11 PM)Aer Wrote:  The reason I would never do steroids until I'm around 40 is because of the "the journey is the goal" mantra.

I'd much rather struggle on that baby weight, to show me that life isn't always easy. Patience is taught. Along with humility.

And when I break through that plateau, I will know it's from sheer hard work and dedication. If I did it with no help, then I know it's all from me, not from my "supplementation".

I believe there is nothing better than lifting natural. It's amazing for your confidence, and not just from your physique.

After 5 years of doing such, I've came out an 100% better person. Handling rejections is easy for me now and I can shrug it off like nothing, just like if I failed on deadlifts last week. So what? I'll try next week.

And when you get that goal weight off the floor/bench, it's almost as good as having sex with a beautiful women.

But it doesn't stop there...nothing does.

And that's what makes me hungry for success.

You're hilarious and clearly don't know how steroids work. People on steroids work out a lot harder than you ever will. Most serious people on them train every day of the week 2-3 hours a day. Maybe even multiple times. They eat 4-5k clean calories a day. I bet you've never sat there at 10pm and had to stuff down another meal of food you've eaten for the last 5 years that you can't even stand to look at anymore.
Now tell me that "all their supplementation does their work for them."

(05-08-2015 09:48 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  You're hilarious and clearly don't know how steroids work. People on steroids work out a lot harder than you ever will. Most serious people on them train every day of the week 2-3 hours a day. Maybe even multiple times. They eat 4-5k clean calories a day. I bet you've never sat there at 10pm and had to stuff down another meal of food you've eaten for the last 5 years that you can't even stand to look at anymore.
Now tell me that "all their supplementation does their work for them."

Sounds like someone is a steroid user, LOL. The way you describe that lifestyle, it doesn't seem particularly fun or enjoyable, force feeding yourself food that you're sick of eating... thanks, but I'll pass on that. I'd rather just be in good shape, than have to do steroids and live that regimented to look like a Nordic God. Different strokes I guess.

(05-09-2015 01:22 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  

(05-08-2015 09:48 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  You're hilarious and clearly don't know how steroids work. People on steroids work out a lot harder than you ever will. Most serious people on them train every day of the week 2-3 hours a day. Maybe even multiple times. They eat 4-5k clean calories a day. I bet you've never sat there at 10pm and had to stuff down another meal of food you've eaten for the last 5 years that you can't even stand to look at anymore.
Now tell me that "all their supplementation does their work for them."

Sounds like someone is a steroid user, LOL. The way you describe that lifestyle, it doesn't seem particularly fun or enjoyable, force feeding yourself food that you're sick of eating... thanks, but I'll pass on that. I'd rather just be in good shape, than have to do steroids and live that regimented to look like a Nordic God. Different strokes I guess.

Nope, I'm not yet taking steroids, just friends with lots of people that compete. I just wanted to give a different perspective to people hating on steroid users saying how "easy" it is.

I had an Indian friend from NYC who was on Match and wasn't getting a lot of dates.

As an experiment, he included a body pic of boxer Amir Khan, pretending it was him while the boxer was training. It wasn't showing the boxer's face, so you couldn't tell it wasn't him. So yeah his profile had his facial selfie in one picture, then a guy in with a nice body in the next. His matches shooted up like 5x.

Obviously he couldn't go out with him, so he's been going to the gym the past 9 months now. It's inspiring because it's still your face, but with a body that you can actually achieve with a lot of hard work.

Fitting.

(05-08-2015 09:48 PM)Tresdus Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 12:11 PM)Aer Wrote:  The reason I would never do steroids until I'm around 40 is because of the "the journey is the goal" mantra.

I'd much rather struggle on that baby weight, to show me that life isn't always easy. Patience is taught. Along with humility.

And when I break through that plateau, I will know it's from sheer hard work and dedication. If I did it with no help, then I know it's all from me, not from my "supplementation".

I believe there is nothing better than lifting natural. It's amazing for your confidence, and not just from your physique.

After 5 years of doing such, I've came out an 100% better person. Handling rejections is easy for me now and I can shrug it off like nothing, just like if I failed on deadlifts last week. So what? I'll try next week.

And when you get that goal weight off the floor/bench, it's almost as good as having sex with a beautiful women.

But it doesn't stop there...nothing does.

And that's what makes me hungry for success.

You're hilarious and clearly don't know how steroids work. People on steroids work out a lot harder than you ever will. Most serious people on them train every day of the week 2-3 hours a day. Maybe even multiple times. They eat 4-5k clean calories a day. I bet you've never sat there at 10pm and had to stuff down another meal of food you've eaten for the last 5 years that you can't even stand to look at anymore.
Now tell me that "all their supplementation does their work for them."

Why personally attack me over a post which was not negative in any way, shape or form?

I'm just saying they aren't for me and that I would prefer not to have a life solely dedicated to the gym. I don't need the help, I like the challenge.

Just weighed myself today at the gym - 199llbs, should hit that magical mark of 200 soon. I have noticed over the last few weeks, dudes have been punching me and doing childish things like slapping me on my back. I am at a new job, so maybe guys are trying to stake their territory. Women at work are opening me, I have been in meetings where they have tried to engage me through eye-contact. I ignore them because quiet frankly the job is more important to me right now.

All these guys talking (hating on) steroids make me laugh. At the end of the day you still have to train hard, very hard in fact. Yes I have tried it, but right now I am clean. I am not concerned with mass or how big my arms are. I have a four pack and would love to get a six pack, most dudes young and old have a belly that sticks out. My weakness is my diet, I love sweet things.

I only train 3x a week, I go hard to the point where I get mad respect in the gym. I see other guys copying my routine, all of a sudden more guys are doing chin-ups and pull-ups. I do 140 -160 a session, 200 push ups is easy. I am not bragging, just showing the level of commitment needed to get a decent frame.

Why I am so passionate about working out, is because it is one of the few things in life I can control. Some guys are passionate about making money, lets be honest it isn't easy to make big money. Even that you have to bust your ass and make sacrifices.

Girls may not fall at my feet, but they do notice me.

Is there a diminishing return, I don't know. For the guys who say there is, feel free to post a pic of yourself without a shirt.

Is there a diminishing return on making more money! Some say more money and more problems, I don't say that.

Is there a diminishing return on having a nice car! I think you catch the drift.

I'm with the crowd of you can't be too big staying natural and having low body fat. Even non natty it's still possible unless you're training for Olympia.

My personal experience.
Started at:
5' 7"
130lbs
15% bf roughly
Horrible hips out head forward rounded shoulder posture
Biggest: 3.5 years after starting
175lbs
18-20% BF
Better posture but not perfect.

Around the 165 mark is when I started noticing increased IOIs, my guy friends telling me I look jacked, their girlfriends telling me dont get too big, female interest at an all time high. I had a Colombian chick tell me in the middle of a steamy make out session in her car "your arm muscles are turning me on so much". Finally go the compliment I worked my ass off for.

At 175 I wore a medium CK V neck and was like busting out of it lol. I def had a small gut but was still rocking a crazy wide shoulder to hip ratio and chest/arms were swoll. Had a chick look at me during a get together and ask non verbally ask me to flex my arms for her lol.

All that being said, I had shit for game and blue pill as fuck from being a scared skinny 130lb guy my whole life and while interest increased DRAMATICALLY I still couldn't close or get the nuts to talk to women. Even when they came up to me I still fucked it up. Since I started working out I haven't fucked.
It does eat eat into your social life and take up a bit of time but there's ways around that. Instead of drinking meet in the park, riverside, whatever.

TL;DR version:
Almost no point of diminishing returns unless you're competing in PLing or BB, but by itself it won't get you laid without game unless you're 6ft+ tall. For sub 5 10 guys it's an absolute must to get as big and lean as possible without looking more wide than tall. Stay lean... At 175 I looked grey in a shirt but my abs were toast. Just to give an idea now I'm 155 and still don't have a ripped ass six pack.

So this dude is too big??

Dude looks like that only in specific circumstances, those are professional photos. The answer is that no, in most circumstances dude would have chicks all over him at the beach - he doesn't look that way all the time.

I' referred to as ripped - women comment on it all the time I get a lot of touch and oooo's and I'm in my late 40's. With my tshirt on you can tell I'm fit - it's when I take off my shirt that the effect really takes place. Bet he looks good in a non-photo shoot situation and a tshirt.

(06-02-2015 10:44 AM)JayMillz Wrote:  So this dude is too big??

Jeff Seid and a lot of these other aesthetic youtubers have narcissism levels of the scale. Flexing like he's some kind of Greek God in public, can't stand it.

Having said that, I appreciate that he has worked hard for his excellent physique. Just doesn't need to overd it with the public flexing ans shit.

No he is not too big, especially in western countries.

I have a story to tell that I'm saving for my next RTS, but man, I'm up to about 210 now and the difference in how the communication is going with women is astounding.

I didn't realize how much I was spitting at 190-195. I mean, I was probably overgaming while talking to chicks, but I felt like I had to do a lot of work.

I was kicking it with this girl this weekend, and at one point, we were out, and I hadn't closed the deal yet, so I'm spitting, getting her ready for later, and she just said "Stop", put her finger over my mouth and we started kissing.

Then she said, we don't need to be out any more, and I said, no we don't, and when we back the to spot and had God sex.

Now that I'm feeling jacked again, I'm keeping my outfits very simple, I'm mostly wearing nice tanks, light jewelry, dope jeans, and fashion sneaks.

I'm a big fan of suit game, but in Miami, people don't give a fuck about how you dress, it's more about how you look, and if your body is right, it doesn't make sense to hide it with sleeves and extra layers.

I'm going to make sure I don't ever drop under 200 again, that's like LeBron saying he's only going to dribble during a game with his left, no need to make the game harder.

Don't hate the playah...

I don't understand all you guys talking about steroids. Why would you sacrifice your long term health for anything?

If you're a pro body builder or a pro athlete and your career and livelihood depend on being huge and cut then I can understand why you'd do it despite the long term consequences. However for everyone else why on earth would you do it? Your health is the most precious thing you have and to willfully damage it for purely superficial reasons, I just don't understand that.

IMO and experience you can get very ripped just by eating clean and working out regularly.

(06-22-2015 08:23 PM)Roardog Wrote:  I don't understand all you guys talking about steroids. Why would you sacrifice your long term health for anything?

If you're a pro body builder or a pro athlete and your career and livelihood depend on being huge and cut then I can understand why you'd do it despite the long term consequences. However for everyone else why on earth would you do it? Your health is the most precious thing you have and to willfully damage it for purely superficial reasons, I just don't understand that.

IMO and experience you can get very ripped just by eating clean and working out regularly.

I don't get the steroids thing either, especially with young guys, but i can understand that if you get older and your T-levels drop, you would want to 'fix' it.

Some people were also born with just 'bad' genetics, either they have some kind of deformity or are very skinny or too fat or very insecure. If they choose to take roids and get yoked out of their mind and it makes them feel better about themselves, who are we to criticize?

Personally i don't get the hype either, however in the Anglosphere, there is a certain niche for those type of men.

Over here in mainland Europe though, your typical 'bro' is usually considered to be of the lower classes. You will get better results here if you dress very well and have more of an athlete type physique (example : soccer player).

I'm 6'1", 225, and about 20% bodyfat, I'd say.

Got some bad dietary advice and bulked too soon. I'm fixing it now, but it takes time. I can average 1lb loss per week, comfortably.

Where would I expect to notice an improvement? If I get down to 210, or 200?

At 6"1 you would still get better returns at 200 than at 210, provided you kept muscle and only shed fat. But obviously both are better in terms of attraction that 225.

On a side note, does anyone else this thread good for motivation when they read about how guys have used their body to pick up chicks?

(06-23-2015 02:52 PM)britchard Wrote:  At 6"1 you would still get better returns at 200 than at 210, provided you kept muscle and only shed fat. But obviously both are better in terms of attraction that 225.

I dunno man I'm 5'10" fairly cut for an older dude and I weight in at ~189lbs I want to get to 200lbs. I'm ~8.5% bf. I look pretty badass (IIDSSMS) in a CK micromodal...

10....more....lbs....

There's a point of diminishing returns when you begin to prioritize strength over looking good.

For example, I did Stronglifts for 4 months. In that time, I unquestionably got stronger. I added pounds to my bench, overhead, squats, rows, and I began doing DLs for the first time.

But all the squats and DLs blew up my lower body. Because it's much easier to add weight to those than to BP and OHP. As such, I got out of proportion and my legs and ass became so developed that I began to lose the appearance of a V-shape torso.

I do much better in terms of attraction when I stay with bodybuilding isolation routines, which don't get me as strong, simply due to less Sq and DL.

Edit: I'm 6'0 and 195, got up to 200 with SL.

IMO, the type of chicks that dig an overly jacked dude tend to have a certain "look".

Usually, stripper types with big fake boobs and highly toned bodies themselves. There are lots of guys who like chicks with bodies like this.. If that's you then go for it.

But I think it's best to keep a toned, lean, muscular look. You might miss out on that small niche of women who only go for huge guys, but your overall quality and range will be much higher.