(04-25-2015 03:54 PM)jariel Wrote:  

(04-25-2015 01:01 PM)britchard Wrote:  You mean peptides as in EPO? Surely that would offer no advantage to increasing muscle mass, except maybe quicker recovery and longer training?

There's a lot of stuff out there, it's not much of a surprise for me to come across a chick running some sort of Ipamorelin and CJC with DAC cycle, in fact all the girls I know doing something are Colombian.

Guys don't realize what some of these women are willing to do to get these figures they have, men too; gotta stop this irrational thinking shit that everyone is just training hard and eating right to look like art works.

People will always look for edges and use them for their own gain when they find them.

I've seen one bikini competitor that goes to my gym sticking a needle in her thigh in her car after her workout; its crazy what extent these girls that are like the lowest end of the spectrum are doing to compete, just think what the fitness competitors are doing. Bikini competitors are coming in harder than fitness girls did of years past, and thats not because training is getting better or nutrition is better figured out.

(04-25-2015 10:59 PM)Repo Wrote:  The thing is though, when you are on steroids and pulling girls with just your looks, even if they aren't top tier you really don't give a shit. Its crazy how being on steroids effects your sex life. You will fuck anything and it will still be awesome. Hell, if it didn't give me health problems, I would take steroids just for the crazy sex drive it gives you, even without the gains. You can be banging two girls a day, giving them both multiple rounds, and still feel like you can keep going, and do this for days on end. Its fucking unreal. And unlike in regular sex, it seemed like each nut felt just as good as the first.

Repo brings up an interesting point, forget the roids and the high sex drive for a minute, really what he's talking about is availability.

A sexually attractive man has a variety of women available to him, ultimately, casual sex all has to do with the moment.

At some point, I'm going to dive deeper into night game, but I can tell you why a lot of guys strike out in night game: they fuck up the moment.

When you're out, drinking, dancing, etc. you're out with a bunch of women who are warming themselves up for sex.

Some chicks solely go out for attention, they can be spotted a mile away, a very small minority of chicks go out just because they're boring human beings, and going out gives them something to do, but I'd say at least half of the chicks at dance clubs would like to get fucked at the end of the night.

That doesn't necessarily mean by some dude she met at a club, but she's hoping to have an orgasm some time during the night.

Think about it.

She spends an extended amount of time during the day getting ready so that she can look as sexy as possible. Then she gets to the club early enough so that she can start drinking, then she'll be ready to play once the party really gets jumpin' around 1:00, by 3:00 most chicks are ready to get the fuck out of there, any later than that is for desperate chicks and druggies hoping to score.

So anyway, a chick does all this shit that is a gateway to sex, and you have guys dealing with these chicks throughout the night, and the most they do is pull a phone number.

By the time you call her, the moment is dead and so are you to her.

Women want to have fun and they want to get fucked. They have enough boring ass, follow the rules, play the game the right way type of people around them, and that's why they are who they are. When they meet someone who's "different", then you get the "different" them who they won't show to other people.

Don't forget this shit right here, and this is coming from a night game veteran who has trained in one of the best party cities in the world: night game is all about the moment.

Sexually attractive men will always have options to seize that moment with women who want to get fucked by sexually attractive men in that particular moment. When you dive deeper into sexual availability, it's not that a sexually attractive man says "Yeah, I want to fuck that "4" over there with the big tits," sometimes, that's what's available, and sometimes the availability to her pussy plus that one thing about her that you know can get your dick hard will lead to sex.

Guys who are weak at night game usually have a variety of things working against them, but one thing that will dead them from "go" is that they're too inside their heads.

They'll look around at other guys and say, "That guy is jacked", "That guy is better-looking than me", and maybe those things are true, and maybe other women notice those guys, but you know what?

The only game that woman can play is the game that is presented to her.

If the good-looking guy, the well-dressed guy, the jacked guy, if none of those guys approach her, she's not fucking any of them, so you might as well approach, and if you get the opportunity, and she's down, you have to fucking seize the moment.

Fuck a bitch first, date her later.

Exactly. Night game rules to live by...

Especially when guys start threads wondering why they can't get a hot in the ass chick back out 2nd time around

It's because that moment has past, and it's harder to microwave a cold bitch back to the state of horniness now that's it's the next day and she's back to reality

Night game is a diversion from the everyday beaten path, most chicks have one night of the week where they can feel like a star on display. It all plays into their escapism fantasies.

That's why the guy (jacked or not) who thinks and behaves in a way to spike those emotions can get the SNL

(04-25-2015 09:00 PM)rudebwoy Wrote:  Nascimento - if you are 1% in terms of physique, you will get girls without approaching. Unless you are 1% then you cannot talk from experience, you are assuming.

I agree, I might add that top 1% can just be applied to whatever venue you are in. I'm sure top1% in Miami beach or the Jersey Shore is a far cry from top1% in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

Also I'd expect that when you factor in non muscle head cultures like Asia the point of diminishing returns would be a lot lower.

(04-27-2015 05:08 PM)rhodey Wrote:  I'm sure top1% in Miami beach or the Jersey Shore is a far cry from top1% in Milwaukee Wisconsin.

No doubt Rhodey, I mean, being a Miamian and going to the gym is just mandatory for keeping your head above water at this point.

Otherwise you're either here getting lucky and fucking what you can or you're paying skrippers and Backpage hoes -- your mileage may vary on that shit.

There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

(04-27-2015 05:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

I am not, but I use to train with a guy that became one. The difference was that he was serious about his diet and did crazy amount of ab work. He wasn't hard to look at as well.

I have a few friends that are good with women, do they have great bodies? No, but they have outgoing personalities, charm and a abundance mentality (which is important to have and portray).

Jneg - I like your response.

I think people are bringing up 1% level physiques just to demonstrate the power of a good physique. I've seen it in person. I was at the beach and this swole dude with striated abs walked past this girl and she did that weird "shiver" thing that they do when they're so overcome with a sigh that the tingles reverberate from their vaginas all the way to their being.

I don't know if that dude had game, but his body certainly did a lot of work for him, I am sure. And he wasn't even what I would consider a top tier physique. He just had muscle in the right places along with a certain look to him.

(04-27-2015 05:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

I think that's the example being used, but you don't have to be in the top 1%.

Here's the question I think you have to ask yourself: What percentage of the men in your locale work out regularly?

Where I'm at, I would say it's well over 50%, mostly because we have so many attractive and fuckable women here, and dudes want any edge they can get to be able to pull.

The unattractive guys who grew up here likely met their wife in high school, their only real option for sex with any other woman who looks better than wifey, is to pay for it.

There's just too many men who women deem attractive who are walking around for women to be giving pity sex to unattractive guys -- unless the attractive guy is putting down money.

That's one thing I respect about here, if you don't have game, looks, or money, you will pay to have sex with any woman who's even remotely above average, I'm not even talking about physical dimes, dudes here pay for "cute" club rats. The strip clubs are full of simps hoping to get a number they can meet up with at a notel later.

If that woman you met in high school keeps her figure at all, i.e., as long as she has a fat ass and a nice shape, she will have other dudes wanting to fuck her, and she will fuck at least one of them at some point because she's looking at hubby's fat, comfortable ass every day, and she still wants to get fucked, and she wants to get fucked right, and she wants it done by someone who doesn't look like him.

Men and women live in this ideal world that only exists in their heads; I understand cheating, I understand sluts, I understand all this shit that your ideal mind says is not good, it's wrong, blah blah blah, but it's all rational behavior driven by biological desires.

Why should a chick reserve her pussy for a guy who no longer puts any effort into being attractive for her?

Just because he put a ring on it?

Just because he put some seeds in it?

Why should a guy who still desires pussy, who still wants to get topped off, who still wants to have sex that's more interesting than a fucking game of Yahtzee, put up with a fat wife who offers it up every once in a blue moon when she doesn't pretend to be too tired and puts a timer on it so it doesn't last longer than a Simpsons episode, keep his dick in his pants just for her?

Just because she's wearing a ring? (Side note, most married people here don't wear rings, latin thing)

Just because she had his kids?

Fuck that.

When Wendy's is closed, McDonald's is open.

When you're tired of canned meat, somewhere there's a juicy steak.

I just prefer to be a guy who doesn't have to worry about that shit, I really don't want to spend my time as an adult worrying about whether or not I can get served, at this point, I rather pick a game, and play, who do I want to fuck tonight?

I can go where the MILFs and GILFs go hoping to come up on a guy who reminds them of when they were in high school or I can go to where girls who just graduated from high school are.

Game, check, looks, check, money, check.

I don't always win, in fact I strike out a fuckin' lot, but at least I know I'm actually in the game, I'm actually a player, and when I do hit homeruns, I'm smacking them farther than Giancarlo Stanton.

So when guys talk about this weightlifting shit and 1% shit and all that, they're just trying to get to a level where the game is much easier, most guys spend the majority of their time trying to talk women into having sex with them, when the woman is actually sexually attracted to you, all the communication doesn't come from either one's mouth.

(04-27-2015 06:41 PM)jariel Wrote:  I can go where the MILFs and GILFs go hoping to come up on a guy who reminds them of when they were in high school or I can go to where girls who just graduated from high school are.

Grannys you'd like to fuck?? Just kidding. This is an excellent post about night game. It is important to optimize everything in your arsenal. A well toned male body communicates health and can be the deal breaker for a woman. In my city at least, every 8+ has either a hubby, bf, or fwb who you are always competing against to secure the pussy. You have to use everything possible to beat him and other hungry men out. It is really that serious.

(04-27-2015 07:04 PM)RougeNoir Wrote:  Grannys you'd like to fuck?? Just kidding. This is an excellent post about night game. It is important to optimize everything in your arsenal. A well toned male body communicates health and can be the deal breaker for a woman. In my city at least, every 8+ has either a hubby, bf, or fwb who you are always competing against to secure the pussy. You have to use everything possible to beat him and other hungry men out. It is really that serious.

Rouge, some of these lizards have kids so young and their wotless kids follow the same trend so by 31, the lizard is a Granny. If she lives in Miami, she will like the attention from men and retain her shape thus becoming essentially, a GILF.

(04-27-2015 05:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

It's right there in the thread title. The question was at what point do the returns from getting into better shape stop being worth it? The answer is only after you have a pretty rocking physique (top 1% of dudes). Otherwise keep working on improving yourself.

(04-28-2015 06:10 AM)Moma Wrote:  Rouge, some of these lizards have kids so young and their wotless kids follow the same trend so by 31, the lizard is a Granny. If she lives in Miami, she will like the attention from men and retain her shape thus becoming essentially, a GILF.

A sexy Latina MILF, or GILF, 40 y/o+ is definitely on my bucket list. There aren't too many where I am at but whenever I am in Dade County/South Florida, I make an effort to talk to them. Jackie Guerrido, Salma Hayek, and Ninel Conde come to mind.

I'm sure it's been mentioned before on the site, but for those of you who haven't started on the journey that some of us are well into, read this, it will help you get started:

http://www.theironandthesoul.net/2012/04...-the-soul/

I've read it once a month for years now, it's a tradition for me, just so I never think about stopping.

(04-27-2015 06:41 PM)jariel Wrote:  when the woman is actually sexually attracted to you, all the communication doesn't come from either one's mouth.

There's some fucking home runs right there.

Here is my take after a month here and spending time with multiple forum members, and 26 women..

1. Show up here as masculine as possible.

2. Show up here as big as possible. Hit the gym.

3. Be Aggressive.

This was posted by Linux in his Colombia thread. So now can we end this discussion. For the record I don't know Linux.

(04-28-2015 06:31 AM)Ensam Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 05:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

It's right there in the thread title. The question was at what point do the returns from getting into better shape stop being worth it? The answer is only after you have a pretty rocking physique (top 1% of dudes). Otherwise keep working on improving yourself.

Alright so the answer to the OP's question is basically, no, unless your at a ridiculous level. My question, which was slightly different, was at what point do you really start to notice the benefits in a big way?

(05-03-2015 05:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(04-28-2015 06:31 AM)Ensam Wrote:  

(04-27-2015 05:34 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  There's a lot of talk about being in the top 1% of physiques here...do you guys all basically look like fitness models?

It's right there in the thread title. The question was at what point do the returns from getting into better shape stop being worth it? The answer is only after you have a pretty rocking physique (top 1% of dudes). Otherwise keep working on improving yourself.

Alright so the answer to the OP's question is basically, no, unless your at a ridiculous level. My question, which was slightly different, was at what point do you really start to notice the benefits in a big way?

As a skinny guy, it took about 5 months to get some massive changes. I looked different, chest showed through tight jumpers and shoulders really had a good shape, also biceps and triceps filling my t-shirt sleeves.

Friends noticed, family noticed, girls noticed.
I think it changed posture and the way I walked (chest pumped out, traps/rear delts set back - deadlifts seem king for this posture for me)

I am going to keep hitting the gym as it's good for my mental health as well as physical, but I don't think I'll get another boost like that again and now I am hitting the top of the curve. But having taken 4 weeks out there's simply no point in stopping as you will lose the benefits quite quick.

I could be wrong, but I think from here on in there won't be any noticeable effects it has on my game - time periods will get longer.

Bottom line is this. Gym 3-4 times a week and you won't regret it and won't want to stop if you're a year down the line.

I think the point of a diminishing return is when you're entire life revolves around going out with the bro's instagramming gym pics and getting huge and shredded. Like those wannabe jersey-shore roided up hipster looking muppets who's only goal in life is to look shredded when they go to Ibiza for 2 weeks and end up coming back with their dicks in their hands saying 'them feels' .

Other young guys my age seem to really go for that look these days and i don't understand why, they all look ridiculous and pull the lowest quality women out there. Like the wall approaching fat 5's you see on shows like Geordie Shore .

That aside, i think everyone's fitness goals should be what they want it to be and makes them look the best, i myself don't lift weights anymore, i used to be bigger and didn't notice any difference in terms of attraction but i do look better the size i am at now , i do alot calisthenics, yoga and rope skipping. My physique resembles that of David Beckham and i've never had problems, girls don't really care about size i think, you can be as big as you like , their standard for men's bodies seems to be to just be FIT .

I think this thread can be summed up:

Are there diminishing returns for weightlifting and attracting girls: yes.

Are there diminishing returns for just about everything in life: yes.

(05-03-2015 05:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Alright so the answer to the OP's question is basically, no, unless your at a ridiculous level. My question, which was slightly different, was at what point do you really start to notice the benefits in a big way?

2 months: You'll notice small changes yourself.
4-6 months: You'll look noticeably better with your shirt off within, for anyone who sees you regularly.
1 year: You'll look distinctly better in a tshirt within a year, and start to get comments from friends.
2 years: You'll look visibly better than 'average' guys - and it'll start to become common for girls to say you're in good shape.
4 years: You'll be in the top 5% of guys in any bar/club/room you walk into, and your physique will start to become a defining feature of you with co-workers, friends etc.

That's been my rough timeline/experience. Everyone's body responds differently though, and I was coming from a very skinny base, but I'd say its not too far off the average.

Zatara, excellent post. What level of lifting intensity is required for those types of results? 3x per week consistently? What type of routine?

(05-05-2015 05:27 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Alright so the answer to the OP's question is basically, no, unless your at a ridiculous level. My question, which was slightly different, was at what point do you really start to notice the benefits in a big way?

2 months: You'll notice small changes yourself.
4-6 months: You'll look noticeably better with your shirt off within, for anyone who sees you regularly.
1 year: You'll look distinctly better in a tshirt within a year, and start to get comments from friends.
2 years: You'll look visibly better than 'average' guys - and it'll start to become common for girls to say you're in good shape.
4 years: You'll be in the top 5% of guys in any bar/club/room you walk into, and your physique will start to become a defining feature of you with co-workers, friends etc.

That's been my rough timeline/experience. Everyone's body responds differently though, and I was coming from a very skinny base, but I'd say its not too far off the average.

I was thinking more in terms of benefits as in attention from girls.

(05-05-2015 08:03 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  

(05-05-2015 05:27 AM)zatara Wrote:  

(05-03-2015 05:07 PM)RexImperator Wrote:  Alright so the answer to the OP's question is basically, no, unless your at a ridiculous level. My question, which was slightly different, was at what point do you really start to notice the benefits in a big way?

2 months: You'll notice small changes yourself.
4-6 months: You'll look noticeably better with your shirt off within, for anyone who sees you regularly.
1 year: You'll look distinctly better in a tshirt within a year, and start to get comments from friends.
2 years: You'll look visibly better than 'average' guys - and it'll start to become common for girls to say you're in good shape.
4 years: You'll be in the top 5% of guys in any bar/club/room you walk into, and your physique will start to become a defining feature of you with co-workers, friends etc.

That's been my rough timeline/experience. Everyone's body responds differently though, and I was coming from a very skinny base, but I'd say its not too far off the average.

I was thinking more in terms of benefits as in attention from girls.

Very difficult to answer without giving an arbitrary measure. To a large extent it is going to depend on your height, frame and starting point. At 6'1, 20lbs of quality weight will look different on me than it would on someone who is 5'7.

What I would say is that if you can dial in your diet and train hard, smart and consistently for 1 year, then the transformation will be significant, and impressive to most. Of course, you may well have to spend several years getting to the point where you know enough to eat and train hard, smart, and consistently for a year.

I have been training 'seriously' for several years now, but I would say that the last 9 months or so have been far more effective in terms of results than all my previous training.

(05-05-2015 07:54 AM)bacan Wrote:  Zatara, excellent post. What level of lifting intensity is required for those types of results? 3x per week consistently? What type of routine?

I was lifting 3 times a week for about 60min a session and playing rugby twice a week in college. Since finishing college a few years ago I just substituted in one day of HIIT a week for my cardio instead of the rugby. And added in an extra day of weights instead of one of the rugby days. So 4x60min weights sessions a week+1x30min cardio. 4.5 hours a week total exercise - not a huge amount to commit to, really.

edit: routine-wise it varies by what will work for your body type, which you can only really find out through experimentation yourself. I hit the major muscle groups I'm targetting once a week. Usually do one large compound movement (ie bench) along with one isolation movement (ie DB flies) per muscle group. High/low rep sets varying by the current goal/diet.

I find its not the actual lifting that most people don't get right long term though, its the consistency. Most people can't resist drinking booze midweek, skipping sessions here and there, eating crappy food, not sleeping enough, not getting enough protein etc. I have friends who've been "serious" about lifting for 5 years, who barely look like they go to the gym at all because of this. They put in good work in the gym but fuck up their gains with their lifestyle outside of the gym.

(05-05-2015 08:03 AM)RexImperator Wrote:  I was thinking more in terms of benefits as in attention from girls.

You'll get a noticeable increase in attention from girls at every point from 6 months onwards in that timeline I posted, increasing drastically as you get towards the end of the scale. The amount will depend massively on where you are in the world (Are you on a beach a lot? Do you wear fitted tshirts or suits when you go out? Are you in a country where weightlifting is common - like Australia - so you won't stand out as much? etc etc).