Post: #26

"It's really like how packs of gorillas operate when there are no females around. They get on fine, give each other handjobs, etc."

^Um...

Post: #27

Some truly magnificent poisoning of the well going on at Married Man Sex Life forums. Have look at this:

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.c...having-sex

Quote:Had a moment, thought I'd share.

Separated bedrooms a bit over a month ago. Why? Because my h was getting all the cuddling and occasional sex he wanted without actually being fun, or having to do any pursuing. (I have trouble with having healthy boundaries) The few dates we were going on ended up being negative experiences, and the more I was around my h, the more I wanted to blow the marriage up. One more sexual encounter followed by another negative interaction was pushing me into BSC divorce territory.

So, weirdly, separating bedrooms is helping me keep calm, happier, and sleeping better. The extreme highs and lows my chemistry would go through when having sporadic sex was very stressful. A study I can't find now explains that regular or no sex is better for estrogen and mood in women than sporadic sex. This is my experience.

So now we're not having sex, though I am still somewhat attracted to Kenny2 and his map is going well, especially recently where his meds are right. Why do I shut down when he initiates?

Well, three reasons I can figure out.

1-There's the whole cyclical aspect of our past sexual interactions...

sex---being ignored----shitty dates------distance------I get very lonely and horny----I fix things-----sex-----being ignored-----

So for me SEX = Loneliness and selling out


2- BUUUUUT, there's another thing holding me back from jumping back in the sack. (like loneliness and being ignored isn't enough )

For 20 years with Kenny2, here is who I was as his wife, I crossed out the parts that are disappearing as he maps.

-The one who brought all the energy and fun in the marriage
-The HD spouse
-The initiator, pursuer
-The sexy one
-The adventurous one
-The captain
-The one who could bitch about not getting "any"
-The martyr


So, if Kenny2 is getting better, stronger, hornier, happier.....

Who am I? I have no identity. no frame work if you will, as the wife of a fully functional male. My neural pathways are literally programmed to function as the wife of a low-t passive-aggressive angry Nice Guy.

So I am mapping and in coaching to develop a new identity. But some of you guys here don't have wives that have this advantage. All they see is their identity, their construct, their comfort level is being threatened by your map. Even if where things were was a shitty place to be, it is a KNOWN quantity, and like the saying says, better the devil you know that the devil you don't. .

3- and lastly, and most embarrassing.....

I am LOVING all this attention from Kenny2 right now. For the first time in 20 years, I am the focus of a man's attention. Actually, not true. For the first time in 20 years, I am the focus of my husbands attention. He wants to be near me, he wants to be nice to me, he is hungry for me, he is moving mountains for our family, and shit is getting done

part of me thinks sex is going to ruin everything. (see #1)

dammit.

That's all I got right now, I'm hoping I can figure out a way to trust that: SEX= Happy well-balanced relationship


okayyyyy, so if TLR

So, I guess #1, 2, 3 comes down to trusting the changes coming with Kenny2's map. I'm not there yet.

Great, so the fact that she's conscious that she thinks he's boring and Beta and wants a divorce is "a step forward".

Post: #28

(01-14-2014 04:54 PM)Frost Wrote:  I'm all in favour of women in the Manosphere. Lots of guys can do a pretty good impression of an alpha tough guy over the internet, and it's useful to see which ones start doing backflips on Twitter/forums/blog comments in exchange for imaginary female e-attention. The Red Pill Woman phenomenon helps the rest of us identify the weak links.

Absolutely.

"Red pill woman" blogs are a great reminder that a lot of male bloggers completely lack credibility. Somebody retweeted a mediocre sex blog titled "Katy Sploosh" a couple weeks ago. The thirst in the comments section was unreal. This chick could shit mexican food into a bucket and half the manosphere would line up for the privilege of picking out the corn chunks. Completely embarrassing. Her comments section is like a gigantic neon billboard pointing out fake game bloggers.

Post: #29

I think it's a good thing.

We want women to start coming over to our point of view on gender relations - it's progress in the right direction. It's a louder voice.

After all, if the so-called manosphere just shouts and shouts about what they believe in but doesn't want women to ever become convinced and get behind them, what's the point of shouting at all? Just to shout at each other and be upset? Seems like a lot of work for nothing. Change is what we're looking for and women espousing traditional roles is change.

Not that it's an entirely new phenomenon. I've been coming across women who believe in old fashioned gender roles and are outspoken about the ridiculousness of modern feminism for a long time - long before it was much of a conversation online. Many are irritated and disillusioned by the shit that goes on. Now we've given them a platform, a language, and the confidence to speak out about it. So they're coming out and they're convincing other women of their perspective, whereas they might otherwise be resistant to listening if a man said it (this is one of the biggest advantages).

Men need their women to support them. That's the way it has always worked. Well, maybe "need" is a strong word, but it's a team-based relationship that has existed as long as humans have.

Not to mention they make up about half the population; the more of the population that comes over to our way of thinking the merrier. It means more people espousing healthier ideas about masculinity. It means more resistance when men are hung out to dry. More votes against laws that fuck with men, more votes for laws that are more fair to men and preserve tradition. You can't deny the power of their numbers and their hive mind - even when they had no right to vote, females were influencers in the background, and no matter what happens, that will continue to be so.

All that said, I do think men need to have their own discussions, platforms, and men's clubs - places like the Rooshvforum where women are not allowed. These things are important and should be preserved at all costs - it's an age-old tradition that has been sabotaged quite enough.

But if women want to run their own websites championing our causes - don't forget that a lot of these are their causes too (social changes that can restore natural balance, result in happier men and women, work in interests of their sons and brothers, etc) - or comment in places where they are allowed to, I say all the better. And some websites will no doubt be a bit more middle-ground and/or have a gender mix.

There's room for everyone. I say welcome to the conversation.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #30

Exactly BB, I'm not sure what people want. It's almost damned if women do, and damned if they don't. You can't say America is going to the dogs, because too many women have listened to the Lindy West's of this world, and then also complain when they start moving against that and criticising modern feminism.

If people like 'Girl writes what' and Camile Paglia start popping up on the TV every now and then to destroy feminist status-quo, that can surely only be a good thing, because a man just wouldn't be able to do it without getting shouted down. Eventually one will, but it might take a woman to soften the media up a bit before a man goes for the kill, so to speak.

I also agree that male-only spaces definitely need to remain, and increase off-internet.

Post: #31

(01-15-2014 05:08 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  After all, if the so-called manosphere just shouts and shouts about what they believe in but doesn't want women to ever become convinced and get behind them, what's the point of shouting at all? Just to shout at each other and be upset? Seems like a lot of work for nothing. Change is what we're looking for and women espousing traditional roles is change.

Couldn't agree less, frankly. Explaining things logically to women doesn't work, on any level. Women respond to punishment and reward.

They would return to traditional gender roles in a matter of hours if the incentives changed. For instance, if modern technological society collapsed. Explaining to them why feminism is a bad idea and expecting them to change is an exercise in futility.

They didn't latch onto feminism in the first place because of a careful study of its rhetorical merit. It appealed to them emotionally and it had the power of group consensus. If/when something else does those two things better, they'll switch in a heartbeat without any psychological dissonance.

Women who claim to be "red pill" are just the outliers and attention-seekers who inevitably latch onto any male subculture or activity once it picks up a certain amount of momentum.

The existence of women on manosphere sites will destroy their reason for being. The presence of women in any male space, whether its a business, military, sports, school, online community, has two inevitable and consistent effects:

• Women demand concessions, special treatment, "respectful" language, etc. Majority of men comply.
• Women attention whore. Many of the men spend their time trying to impress, attract the women. Productivity dries up.
  

These two things will always happen. They will always destroy the value and usefulness of the formerly male space. A perfect example of this is the Married Man Sex Life forum discussed in this thread. That's what every manosphere site will look like once it becomes mainstream and occupied by women.

A requirement for getting shit done, in any field, is men being independent and free of women. For a contemporary example, look at something like internet startups. At the early stage, when the actual creation of the product happens, it's virtually always done by a small group of men. Later, women are brought in and it becomes a big, miserable bureaucracy like any modern business.

The loss of social clubs and other male-only spaces over the past century was a terrible thing. There's essentially nowhere most men can go these days that has not been thoroughly feminized. Athletics and "geek" culture served that role more recently, but both are being increasingly feminized. The manosphere is heading in the same direction.

(01-15-2014 05:08 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  Men need their women to support them. That's the way it has always worked. Well, maybe "need" is a strong word, but it's a team-based relationship that has existed as long as humans have.

Absolutely not. Men need their women to respect and obey them. Support is something you get from someone of equal or higher authority than yourself. The only woman who can legitimately support you is your mother.

Looking to a woman for support is turning her into your mother. Yes, I know almost all Western men do this these days, but that doesn't mean its not a fatal category error. A general doesn't ask a private to support him, he demands that he respect him and submit to his authority. The same for a boss and an employee and parent and child. This is how it needs to be between a man and woman.

Men looking for a "partner" in their wife is the primary reason for "frivorce," female cheating, and general bad behavior from women. No matter what she says or even consciously believes, no woman is capable of respecting and loving a man that doesn't have authority over her. She does not want to be your mother. The idea repulses her.

Post: #32

(01-14-2014 04:36 PM)Bricks Wrote:  The worst is Athol Kays forum Married Man Sex Life.

All these guys jumping though 5000 hoops to get sex from their WIVES. Toping it off is all the forum is mainly "red pill" woman giving their completely useless (non male experienced) opinions on the subject.

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/

Check it out for yourself. I appreciate what he is trying to do, but the shrieking attention whoring helps absolutely none of these slubs get more sex from their bitch wives.

The way this forum runs it sans woman is the only way to go.

I have to give some credit to Kay, though. He's trying to help men in some of the most unfavorable conditions possible. Granted, selling lots of books in the process... but still.

I mean, look at this guy:

http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.c...-shit-test

Quote:Failed a shit test. I will own this one because probably I did it to myself. I received my annual performance eval today at work. All glowing and above average in most all respects. I should get a good raise. Some of this I have to give credit to MMSL.

The test: I thought I would share the eval with Mrs. BetaTester. Evaluations where I work are done with the employee first giving a self evaluation. Some go for broke and (ridiculously) self rate themselves as high as possible in all areas. This really pisses off the management because it shows the employee really is not taking the task seriously. They usually suffer for it in the final scores. If you are modest, the management will usually bump you up, especially if you provide good examples. I did the latter. However DW was "Why did you give yourself average scores? That was really dumb!" Instead of "good job" is was one negative comment after another. I was so speechless I could not think of what to say.

One explanation is PMS time is here. I suppose I could have explained how the game is played, I could have rated myself a bit higher in some areas. However I did not expect this rating as I have had some bad luck at this job in the past. I exceeded my own expectations.

So I am trying to learn my lesson here. Should I not share during PMS time? Give a better alpha response to the test? WTF I thought it was a good thing to do well at work.

The comments get to the point pretty quickly, at least. But a guy like this, fishing for praise from his wife about his workplace scorecard? That is so incredibly beta where would you even start? I suspect most of us, if we knew that guy in real life, would simply consider him a lost cause and feel sorry for him. I recall reading awhile back (found it) that many of the men Kay is trying to help are failing on a lot of basic "structural" aspects. In other words they are fat, weak, sick, unemployed or underemployed, or like the poor sap above, lacking in even the most basic understanding of masculine confidence. AND they are in a marriage, legally bound to a single woman.

Would his forum be better if women were banned? Maybe. That post from MrsKenny2 that HCE shared is a great example of an entitled, self-centered, attention-seeking, sex-witholding cunt offering absolutely no meaningful advice nor is she legitimately there to learn for herself. She blabbers about not being ready for sex but I bet if Kenny2 were to just take her, on his terms, she'd submit without question.

But posts like hers do represent a decent warning to men who are considering marriage. And, it's possible a lot of the men that post there just wouldn't be comfortable with the idea of a male-only forum. Their blue-pill affliction runs so deep that the idea is just too sexist for them.

Post: #33

What are women doing in the blogosphere? They should be in the kitchen making sandwiches, not blog posts.

Post: #34

When you're away at work the woman of the house is chatting with the neighbor lady between making brownies and vacuuming the curtains.

The internet just expands the number of neighbors.

Post: #35

(01-15-2014 10:03 AM)darklightdispatch Wrote:  Women who claim to be "red pill" are just the outliers and attention-seekers who inevitably latch onto any male subculture or activity once it picks up a certain amount of momentum.

...

• Women demand concessions, special treatment, "respectful" language, etc. Majority of men comply.
• Women attention whore. Many of the men spend their time trying to impress, attract the women. Productivity dries up.
  

These two things will always happen. They will always destroy the value and usefulness of the formerly male space.
...
Looking to a woman for support is turning her into your mother.

Exactly. I don't really understand the "well at least they aren't feminists" so we should kiss their ass mentality. a) Feminists are not the only problem. b) Truth is truth whether or not it is about someone who shares SOME of my/our opinions. I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm not here to try to build some sort of voting block alliance. I'll leave that to the politicians.

I don't need everyone to agree with me and I don't want to pretend to overlook things that I disagree with. I don't need any 'allies'. My life became infinitely better when I stopped worrying about what women think of me and my opinions. And ironically, once I stopped worrying about what they thought I found they would be more likely to agree or at least see my side of things. This whole red-pill women thing is a larger scale version of this phenomenon.

Post: #36

^ Nobody said anything about kissing their ass. Not all women are horrible bitches like Lindy West you know. Some are good to talk to, and if they want to air a few grievances about feminism then all the power to them. Unfortunately this pool is diminishing, specifically in North America it would appear.

Post: #37

I've ranted about this issue before in other threads, so my opinion is known.

Women are here to stay, precisely because men are so desperate for them to be here.

I'm enjoying the simp factor. There's nothing quite like seeing a bunch of self-proclaimed alpha males cuddling up to Internet women.

Why would I read a "red pill woman's" blog when there are real women available to satisfy me in any way imaginable?

Oh, wait…Do you mean to tell me that the vast majority of guys are keyboard players?

Post: #38

(01-15-2014 12:17 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Oh, wait…Do you mean to tell me that the vast majority of guys are keyboard players?

Yeah, i'm not a real player. I was in college, but my game these days is being built back up. I know this summer will be the summer of awesome though.

Post: #39

(01-15-2014 12:17 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I've ranted about this issue before in other threads, so my opinion is known.

Women are here to stay, precisely because men are so desperate for them to be here.

I'm enjoying the simp factor. There's nothing quite like seeing a bunch of self-proclaimed alpha males cuddling up to Internet women.

Why would I read a "red pill woman's" blog when there are real women available to satisfy me in any way imaginable?

Oh, wait…Do you mean to tell me that the vast majority of guys are keyboard players?

I think the key is getting women to read those blogs and for the authors to get some air time spreading the word, as they will be more likely to be heard by the masses. On the flip side a guy will just be dismissed as a he man woman hater.

That is where they can be a benefit. Much like my neighbor lady analogy above; Spreading the word to women. Guys aren't going to learn anything from reading them.

As far as internet alphas trying to hook/cuddle up with them? Yeah, weak sauce.

Post: #40

The idea that we need to "convert" women to our way of thinking is completely wrong. Women will be converted simply by virtue of men acting upon them. If you cast a magic spell and suddenly every man in the world woke up tomorrow with internalized red pill knowledge, women would quickly fall in line and behave naturally in response to the men.

Women are not swayed by rhetorical arguments or debates, for the major reason that they don't even understand their own thought processes. Rather, women go along with whatever the prevailing social norms of the culture are. They are reactive, while men are active. This is why I believe we are best served not only by ignoring women as an audience, but by actively shunning them and casting them out of the manosphere as much as possible.

Post: #41

As others have mentioned before, the manosphere and this forum seem riddled with the maddonna/whore mentality.

I'm certainly not really convinced "traditional gender roles" are that desirable at the end of the day. How can marrying at 21 and a half, having kids and being a good wife be "red pill"? It is far from the same level of realisations and difficult truths and consequent actions that men must address to be red pill. Women must have their own red pill realisations, thinking and consequent actions, which I'm not seeing out there. I don't think men can cook it up for them. Women have got to figure it out for themselves.

There is a way forward, but I can't see it is backwards, when did that ever really work?

Post: #42

Rollo Tomassi would say "all women are red pill, it's getting them to admit it that's hard", and I'd agree.

My mother is an example. She's old, a FOB immigrant and has no idea about feminism or red pill. But when we talk about dating, relationship and marriage, depending on how I present it, she can be:

- Blue Pill when I talk about generic men, and she defaults to Team Women immediately

- Red Pill (uncannily so, like she posts here) when I talk about myself, so she goes straight to Team My Son, and drops some pretty damn good knowledge on the evils of women I must watch out for

Most women would be like my mother. They will be allies of the winning team, or the team that they have serious investment in: their sons, or their alpha husbands.

Post: #43

(01-14-2014 03:45 PM)scorpion Wrote:  The no-women-allowed policy on the RVF is one of the most important features of the forum, in my opinion.

Absolutely. It's one of the secret ingredients to the RVF sauce.

It's not just the women themselves, but more importantly:

1. The way guys post when women are around is different (and worse), and
2. The fact that women are not allowed on the forum keeps a lot of weak and worthless males away from it -- this may be the single most important thing. Those are the types that will gravitate to the reddit slums.

The RVF is just right in so many different ways that it's crazy, actually. I feel like saying more about this at some point...

Post: #44

I agree with Matt. Women invading red pill male spaces is negative. As soon as red pill becomes too mainstream it gets watered down. the red pill reddit has at times become unreadable because of the the women posting and the blue pill suckups who seem desperate for a virtual head job.

It's likely the red pill will go seriously mainstream in 2014/5. This means television. This means watered down to shit. This means gross caricatures. This means pandering to the predominantly female audience.

At the end of the wave of blandness that may soon come upon us, red pill and manosphere may be dirty words.

So, keep women away from it.

Post: #45

(01-15-2014 03:38 AM)Handsome Creepy Eel Wrote:  Great, so the fact that she's conscious that she thinks he's boring and Beta and wants a divorce is "a step forward".

See, this is the dark side. I don't mind much if a woman wants to publicly swallow the red pill, but I don't participate. I really appreciate the male-only atmosphere here.

My reservation is that this hits the hamster uses this as food... "OMG, he's not ALPHA enough. No wonder I'm sooooo unhaaaaapy. I need a divorce!" Everybody has ups and downs, some people have major downs, like months long downs. I'm not cool with the whole frivorce thing. Divorce is for major issues, not because "he doesn't fuck me right".

Post: #46

(01-16-2014 03:34 PM)finton_the_toole Wrote:  It's likely the red pill will go seriously mainstream in 2014/5. This means television. This means watered down to shit. This means gross caricatures. This means pandering to the predominantly female audience.

At the end of the wave of blandness that may soon come upon us, red pill and manosphere may be dirty words.

It's already happening.

Post: #47

Just thoughts on Athol Kay's marriedmansexlife.com site - It absolutely is for frustrated chumps or married guys cluing into that something is wrong and they need unconventional thinking. Some really are not even Beta - they are Omegas and just now waking up to that fact. There was one just awful, awful painful story to read for male & female members alike - this dude had been married to his wife for something like 10 to 15 years AND HAD NOT CONSUMMATED THE MARRIAGE. It gets worse. HIS WIFE WAS CHEATING ON HIM TOO!!


I mean for real guys, this dude could actually get an annulment, instead of a divorce. I mean that is just seriously depressing and fucked up. Probably one of the worst stories I came across there.


It's for a VERY VERY different demographic than the majority of the guys who post here. i.e. Myself. I have incredible almost insatiable urges to get women pregnant. I also really want to be an involved dad. To me that meant getting married rather than leave a trail of abortions behind me.

The problem on the site is still one of female shaming of male opinions about their wives. Some women really can't handle men talking straight about what their needs are. I've learned to smack that shit down when I post there. They say they're red pill? I'll give them the fucking red pill whether they want it or not.

As many have pointed out, we can't have it both ways. We can't endless complain that all women are feminist cunts and then the minute a few women start saying, "you know, there might be something to this red pill stuff" and then we say "ATTENTION SEEKING WHORES GONNA DESTROY US ALL!!!!" the next.

It's called hypocrisy.

Post: #48

(01-17-2014 03:12 AM)Tytalus Wrote:  As many have pointed out, we can't have it both ways. We can't endless complain that all women are feminist cunts and then the minute a few women start saying, "you know, there might be something to this red pill stuff" and then we say "ATTENTION SEEKING WHORES GONNA DESTROY US ALL!!!!" the next.

It's called hypocrisy.

There are plenty of places where women are free to express themselves if they would like to support red pill ideas. In fact, the best thing for men would be for so-called "red pill" girls to go encourage other girls to reject feminism and be thin, pretty, sweet, and eager to please.

There is only a certain extent than most women can ever be reasonably expected to abandon the female imperative or sympathize with a male perspective. Their desire for alpha fux and beta bux is as innate as male desire for pretty faces, perky tits, and slender curving bodies. The goal of the manosphere is not to get women on "our side" so much as it is to encourage them to rediscover and embrace their femininity and abandon corrosive feminism.

Finally, there's the simple observation that many of the outspoken "red pill" women really do not get it. They are likely to corrupt and undermine the message and when the chips are down, their support will dry up.

Post: #49

(01-17-2014 03:12 AM)Tytalus Wrote:  As many have pointed out, we can't have it both ways. We can't endless complain that all women are feminist cunts and then the minute a few women start saying, "you know, there might be something to this red pill stuff" and then we say "ATTENTION SEEKING WHORES GONNA DESTROY US ALL!!!!" the next.

It's called hypocrisy.

I don't think anyone is shitting on the girls who are flying the Red Pill flag. It's healthy for them, and it's a good sign of how good a job we're doing at creating a high-value community.

The problem is when men start to give "Red Pill Women" more attention than they deserve. But as I said before, it's not really a problem because it helps us identify the thirsty internet Alphas who will trade their dignity for some female e-attention.

The appropriate response to the Red Pill Woman community is to be happy for them, and ignore them.

Post: #50

(01-14-2014 11:04 PM)Fisto Wrote:  "red pill" is just another stupid word now. I perused the reddit "theredpill" and was mortified by the morons posting their simp perspectives and sour grape attitudes.

A bunch of chumps running parroting things they don't even understand, I'd blow the whole thing up if I could.

Actually you heard it hear first, they're all "R'tards".

r/TheRedPill is what happens when you drop some truth into a huge community of dorks.

Yes, it's a pretty soft group. But consider the demographic. Most of those guys are starting from the bottom, compared to a place like RVF where it takes a certain type of man to even seek out and find the forum.

Places like r/The RedPill and Athol Kay's site just show how much work the average guy has to do to get to a point that we consider "not a complete loser."