Post: #1

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2014/01/...ebate.html

Quote:A York University student who refused to do group work with women for religious reasons has sparked a human rights tug-of-war between a professor and campus administration.
While the professor wanted to deny the student’s request, a university dean ordered him to comply.
Professor Paul Grayson is now blowing the whistle on what he sees as a hierarchy of freedoms at York — religious rights trumping women’s rights.
“In order to meet an instance of a religious requirement we have tacitly accepted a negative definition of females,” Grayson told the Star. “That’s not acceptable.”
The brouhaha began in September when a student in an online sociology class emailed Grayson about the class’s only in-person requirement: a student-run focus group.

“One of the main reasons that I have chosen internet courses to complete my BA is due to my firm religious beliefs,” the student wrote. “It will not be possible for me to meet in public with a group of women (the majority of my group) to complete some of these tasks.”
While Grayson’s gut reaction was to deny the request, he forwarded the email to the faculty’s dean and the director for the centre for human rights.
Their response shocked him; the student’s request was permitted.
The reasoning was apparently that students studying abroad in the same online class were given accommodations, and allowed to complete an alternative assignment.
“I think Mr. X must be accommodated in exactly the same way as the distant student has been,” the vice dean wrote to Grayson.
The professor argues that is not a valid comparison — there is a major difference between accommodating someone who can’t physically meet class members versus someone who refuses to interact with women, he says.
Grayson’s reply was scathing.
“York is a secular university. It is not a Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, or Moslem university. In our policy documents and (hopefully) in our classes we cling to the secular idea that all should be treated equally, independent of, for example, their religion or sex or race.
“Treating Mr. X equally would mean that, like other students, he is expected to interact with female students in his group.”
A university provost, speaking on behalf of the dean, said the decision to grant the student’s request was made after consulting legal counsel, the Ontario Human Rights Code and the university’s human rights centre.
“Students often select online courses to help them navigate all types of personal circumstances that make it difficult for them to attend classes on campus, and all students in the class would normally have access to whatever alternative grading scheme had been put in place as a result of the online format,” said Rhonda Lenton, provost and vice president academic.
The director of the Centre for Human Rights also weighed in on the decision in an email to Grayson.
“While I fully share your initial impression, the OHRC does require accommodations based on religious observances.”
The professor argued that if a Christian student refused to interact with a black student, as one could argue with a skewed interpretation of the Bible, the university would undoubtedly reject the request.
“I see no difference in this situation,” Grayson wrote.
The student’s religious identity is unclear because human rights rules bar a professor from asking a student their religion. However, based on the student’s name, Grayson surmised that he is either an Orthodox Jew or Muslim.
Jewish and Muslim scholars from York told Grayson that neither religion instructs a man to avoid interacting with women in public.
“Unless he is asked to be physical with a female student, which I assume he isn’t, there is absolutely no justification for not interacting with females in public space,” an Islamic scholar wrote to the professor.
The professor took the dean’s ruling to a department meeting. Other professors agreed with Grayson and passed a motion refusing any student accommodations if they marginalize a student, faculty member or teaching assistant.
The following day, Grayson used this justification to reject the student’s request.
The professor insisted that the student at the centre of the controversy is not a zealot. In fact, he later agreed to work with his assigned group, many of whom were women.
“I cannot expect that everything will perfectly suit what I would consider an ideal situation,” the student wrote. “I will respect the final decision, and do my best to accommodate it. I thank you for the way you have handled this request, and I look forward to continuing in this course.”
Regardless, Grayson may face consequences for defying the dean’s decision and creating a new departmental policy to justify his stance.
“My union has told me that under the circumstances I could be subject to disciplinary measures,” Grayson said.
He doubts that will happen.
“It would open such a can of worms for the university trying to sanction someone from, basically, expressing them self.”
The university did not answer the Star’s questions as to whether Grayson will be reprimanded.
The incident is the latest clash between religious values and Ontario's secular education system.
Catholic schools resisted a call by Queen's Park to allow so-called gay-straight student clubs because of the Vatican's historic stand against homosexuality. But the government insisted such clubs be permitted as a tool against bullying — and a nod to Ontario's commitment to freedom of sexual orientation.
Similar debate erupted in 2011 when a Toronto school in a largely Muslim neighbourhood allowed a Friday prayer service in the school cafeteria so that students would not leave for the mosque and not return.
However fewer cases have taken place at the post-secondary level.

Post: #2

LOL. I love when leftist holy grails (prostrating themselves before non-Christian religions and feminist issues) are in competition with one another!

Post: #3

Ha! I love it.

Let the uroboro continue.

Post: #4

This says more about his religion than anything else.

However, it would be an interesting scenario if a women refused to work with men because of her religious beliefs. You can bet your bottom dollar on the University coming down on her side.

Post: #5

If the man cannot work with woman, how will he work with woman in a work environment?

Post: #6

(01-09-2014 02:26 PM)frenchie Wrote:  Ha! I love it.

Let the uroboro continue.

Great reference.

Post: #7

This reminds me of a post somewhere... The gist of it was, that these kinds of things are always decided in favor of those who successfully claim "oppressed victim" status. It's always

Women > Men
Gay > Straight
Nonwestern > Western
Jewish > Christian
Muslim > Christian
Non-Christian > Christian
etc.

And it only gets interesting where you have a conflict but both sides can play the "oppressed" card.

Here we have oppressed women vs. oppressed Jews/Muslims.

Post: #8

In a so called "secular" country this should not even be an issue. Zero religious accommodations should be given. The staus quo should be kept. See "Richard Dawkins -faith school menace" documentary on youtube. Shows where religious accommodation leads to.

There is an example from a private British school in the middle east,,,,,,a part of the curriculum had a Greek mythology unit. That part had to be cancelled because one student was confused about "gods" and his father complained. You can say the school had no backbone but why send your child to a British school then? Too many accommodations are being given nowadays it seems to Muslims. Other Muslims don't complain but they also lose out because of one idiot whose child was "confused". I can go on and on.

Whether this student was Muslim, Jewish or some other belief, they are in Canada and should accept that they may have to interact with EVERYBODY!!!

Post: #9

For those who aren't familiar, York is an epicenter of leftist retardation up North, kind of like the Canadian version of Berkeley.

Post: #10

(01-09-2014 05:31 PM)Moreless Wrote:  If the man cannot work with woman, how will he work with woman in a work environment?

This guy must be from abroad and has some ca$h. My guess he will be on the first flight out to the gulf and a job that would mean 98% women in the work force.

This is great popcorn entertainment. I always assumed Femenism would go belly up once the State coffers ran dry but it will most likely eat itself away by then.

Post: #11

If this were a woman refusing to do an assignment with men for religious reasons, would you still see it as a left-right issue? Or would you say, tell her to drop the fuck out of college?

Post: #12

(01-09-2014 08:58 PM)Rutting Elephant Wrote:  If this were a woman refusing to do an assignment with men for religious reasons, would you still see it as a left-right issue? Or would you say, tell her to drop the fuck out of college?

Doesn't matter. This is one of those situations were us red-pill men get to sit back and enjoy the fireworks, because we don't have a dog in the fight.

For the record, I see it as a stupid-dumbass issue.

Post: #13

(01-09-2014 03:30 PM)Frontenac Wrote:  This says more about his religion than anything else.

However, it would be an interesting scenario if a women refused to work with men because of her religious beliefs. You can bet your bottom dollar on the University coming down on her side.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/heal...-gym_N.htm

"Harvard University has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week, a move to accomodate Muslim women who, for religious and cultural reasons, cannot exercise comfortably in their presence."

Post: #14

It's funny how the bullshit tools feminists have built to destroy the patriarchy finally comes back like a boomerang to haunt their asses...

I remember a few years ago in Ontario, there were student groups holding conferences in universities to promote separate Islam tribunals, the kind that would allow husbands to beat their wives and daughters for dishonorable acts. Now I'm not talking about whether Islam is good or bad, but you can bet your ass feminists tried to shut these down, in the name of "equality". They couldn't, because in the name religion, those students have the right to free speech.

Post: #15

Majority of my acquaintances/classmates think that the student should be expected to work with women.

Verdict: Women's rights > religious rights (in Toronto)

Post: #16

Feminism is part of society's current religion. He's an orthodox practitioner of one of the old religions. He will lose. The only way he can pull of the upset is if he's a refugee to claim additional victim credibility.

Post: #17

(01-09-2014 11:27 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(01-09-2014 03:30 PM)Frontenac Wrote:  This says more about his religion than anything else.

However, it would be an interesting scenario if a women refused to work with men because of her religious beliefs. You can bet your bottom dollar on the University coming down on her side.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/heal...-gym_N.htm

"Harvard University has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week, a move to accomodate Muslim women who, for religious and cultural reasons, cannot exercise comfortably in their presence."

Thanks for providing this example. The hypocrisy is astounding when these two cases are compared. Truly feminism is the strongest religion in the West, trumping even the constitutional rights given to other religions.

Post: #18

The guy is a major white night also. He is a fraud and would of granted the request if it was a women in the same situation, all done in quiet...

(01-09-2014 11:27 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(01-09-2014 03:30 PM)Frontenac Wrote:  This says more about his religion than anything else.

However, it would be an interesting scenario if a women refused to work with men because of her religious beliefs. You can bet your bottom dollar on the University coming down on her side.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/heal...-gym_N.htm

"Harvard University has banned men from one of its gyms for a few hours a week, a move to accomodate Muslim women who, for religious and cultural reasons, cannot exercise comfortably in their presence."

My school does this with the pool. They ban men for a set amount of hours per week to have women only swims and they have these massive drapes to cover the windows when they do...they don't put these drapes up any other time.

Muslim girls use that 'Male Presence' shit as an excuse to never use the gym and get fat so the baggy clothes they wear tries to hide their pudge and rolls, the Somali Muslim girls are bad for that. The Muslim girls I see in the gym just wear under armor or long selves with loose fitting t-shirts and some sweat pants. You don't see their figure and they can still work up a sweat.

Most Muslim (the majority) girls though treat University as a escape, being at school gives them more ability to let their hair down and chill. On a Friday night the Library gets as loud as a lounge as all the Muslim girls are chilling there socializing.