Post: #1

I did a few searches on the forum and only found an outdated thread that touched on this subject. I've done plenty of google searches and research, but mainly end up feeling like I went in circles.

So I figured why not ask the experienced travelers on this forum.

In the future I plan on moving the hell away from America.
I've looked up what it might take to move to Austria, Switzerland, Ukraine, and have even looked at little in to Dubai (though I think that would be the most difficult). So I want to put all my time and energy in to making this plan happen.

Does anybody here have dual citizenship, tons of travel experience, or up to game on the legal process it takes to be able to pull this off? Any advice is welcomed.

To drop a bit of background, I am going in to the service right before summertime. I want to milk every last bit I can from this experience before finishing my contract. So I figured I would learn a language or 2 while in there, save every penny, gain extra skills and knowledge, and network.

I've read that for most european countries to become a citizen you typically have to have lived there for about 5 years, have a highly desirable skill(s), marry a broad, or have that ethnicity in you. Also that its somewhat difficult to be able to join the European Union (if I remember correctly).

I haven't learned too much about Dubai, besides the impression I got that you need to be a businessman.

Post: #2

Your question is too broad. Do you want to move to an EU country or not? You mentioned Dubai and Ukraine and then talk about EU membership, so that's why I ask. Do you have any blood relatives (typically up to grandparents level) who are from an EU country? If not, are you open to going there to work, or start a business?

Post: #3

I know my great grandparents are from Spain. Everyone else is born in Mexico. I've considered Spain or Portugal, but I'm still deciding between where to set up shop. I know ultimately I would like to end up in Austria or Switzerland for sure and I could vacation deeper into EE. I'm open to going to work there. I'm looking at what trade I should specialize in that would transfer over well. Is there a difference for starting a business?

Post: #4

What is really above me is why someone would move from the US to Austria or Switzerland. Why do you want to do that?

Post: #5

(12-17-2013 07:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  What is really above me is why someone would move from the US to Austria or Switzerland. Why do you want to do that?

Skiing, money..?

Post: #6

first off dicide where it is you want to move. before I made the plunge I had a choice between Japan, Spain or Italy. then Japan didn't pan out and while Italy had a lot going for it I decided to show preference to Spain and got sent here. that was my process. After you have decided on that a quick google search will reveal what it is you have to do to become a citizen but I would kick it in the country for a little bit, do boarder runs if you have to before commiting to citizenship. Also I would recomend against getting over zelious and buying a house or something. Get an idea about what it is you want from your trip. You want to learn Ukrainian and fuck EE bitches then the EU isn't doing you any favors. Want to spit game on Spanish senoritas then why are we talking about Dubai? You see where I'm going with this. Once you know what it is you want then all that's left is to take the plunge. The flight over is the hardest part at that point. once you hit the ground it becomes an adventure every day. Go for it. You won't regret it unless you don't do it.

Post: #7

(12-17-2013 09:01 AM)muc Wrote:  

(12-17-2013 07:46 AM)Ice Wrote:  What is really above me is why someone would move from the US to Austria or Switzerland. Why do you want to do that?

Skiing, money..?

Well you can earn money in the States too. Skiing too for that matter. Salaries might be higher in Switzerland, but so is cost of living. Also, you need to consider the culture - will you feel comfortable there? I can imagine Spain might be cool in terms of culture, but Switzerland? ..

Post: #8

@birdrusell Do you currently live in Spain? We're you sent there from work? What field are you in if you don't mind me asking? I was brainstorming last night and figured my best bet would be Spain. I know the language fluently and culturally it's a match. So naturally I think the transition wouldn't be too bad, also I like flying so I'm not too worried about that.

Border running seems like the best idea so I can get a feel for each place before deciding to permanently settle in Austria, Switzerland, or maybe even Ukraine. Dubai is more of a daydream for me. So I've scratched it out.

@Ice believe it or not I don't think the US is the best country in the world. I don't like American culture and many other things here. Taxes in Europe don't worry me. I know they're significantly higher.
Learning to ski would be cool lol and money is nice, but my main goal is to establish and settle down over there. I don't have to be rich. I live a minimal lifestyle now.

Post: #9

Where do you really want to go? What is the plan? Just "Getting out of here and leaving for Europe" is too broad, too general. Pick a country. Do you have any desirable skill? For Hungary (for example) it's 8 years AND Hungarian fluency, down to 3 years AND fluency if you marry, or Hungarian fluency only if either parents or grandparents are Hungarian. Sweden is always extremely easy if you come from a shithole full of useless people (They are collecting them like Pokemon or something, I don't understand the fetish) but you don't, so that option is out.

So, what's the plan? Do you feel still very attached to the US? Maybe you are not ready to leave. I know many americans who turned back because the culture shock (even in the US cartoon clone, Western Europe) was too much.

Post: #10

(12-17-2013 06:24 PM)Volk Wrote:  Where do you really want to go? What is the plan? Just "Getting out of here and leaving for Europe" is too broad, too general. Pick a country. Do you have any desirable skill? For Hungary (for example) it's 8 years AND Hungarian fluency, down to 3 years AND fluency if you marry, or Hungarian fluency only if either parents or grandparents are Hungarian. Sweden is always extremely easy if you come from a shithole full of useless people (They are collecting them like Pokemon or something, I don't understand the fetish) but you don't, so that option is out.

So, what's the plan? Do you feel still very attached to the US? Maybe you are not ready to leave. I know many americans who turned back because the culture shock (even in the US cartoon clone, Western Europe) was too much.

To list it out, what I want is to leave this country when I have the chance. Permanently. I was born here, but grew up 3 different parts of Mexico. My late teen years and so on have been in the Silicon Valley. I'm joining the military soon with the intention of saving every cent I can, learning a trade, a language or two, any other skill I can learn, and network. Culture shock isn't a concern. I thrive of living and learning different from different cultures and traditions.

I come from a very poor family, we've been below the poverty line most of my life and regular jobs and school have been a major let down for me. I made mistakes earlier and I'm in the process of fixing them. Not to make this a sob story, but the last bit of family I do have left is sick/hospitalized. By the time I leave, or am in the middle of service I have accepted they won't be around. So there is nothing really holding me back except a few bills I'll finish paying off in the next six weeks.

For the skill part, I'm good with computers all around. Software, Hardware, some coding and programming. Another thing I specialize in is Cooking. I have certificates and a few awards, but I'm looking to see what else I can learn that would be a well transfer to another country. Whether it be white collar work or getting down and dirty working long inhumane hours.

Once I am able to go overseas I want to check out Austria and Switzerland as potential places to settle down. From what I've learned and have heard they have my main interest. Plan B would be Portugal or Spain.

On a side note there are a couple of things that confuse me or I haven't learned. I understand where you must live in said country for x amount of years to become a citizen.
-How are you legally able to live and work somewhere without being a citizen?
-Are there any restrictions?
-Is there a time limit?
-If you become a citizen of a EU country does that enable you to easily travel or stay in another EU country?

(Main questions I can think of at that moment.)

Post: #11

Could be a heavy troll. Just posting random stuff. In his intro post he is a different guy with more buzzwords than a comic book:

/thread-30814-...#pid595968

Claims he is from Silicon Valley, bones chick in a strip club multiple times, keeps it up non-stop all night every night for two weeks (did she quit her stripping job?), has a good job and bank, but only takes girls to hotels, despite having a home that he loses when he gets sacked from his job, then he loses his food too ... LOL ... now things are brighter than ever.

Now a week later you're joining the military and looking for a new skill set, in spite of being an ace hardware /software guy in silicon valley, who is also a cooking fiend with awards?

Post: #12

I'm the same person. The thread you linked was a story of things that happened during a a 2-3 year span. Regardless of things going well for a short time after getting out of a rut, my hunch was correct and things aren't ponies and skittles. I have professional history cooking. Very little in the computer science field. I didn't go to school for that. It is something I've always done as a hobby. The military and European travel are something I've always wanted to do. It of course didn't happen over night.

On a different note what would be the point in trolling or posting random crap?

Post: #13

I have a dual citizenship and thank my stars everyday. Europe is a great place socially but you cannot make money as easily like the United States.
If you have EU citizenship you can live anywhere in Europe within reason, it will be tough to get a job in Austria without speaking German.
Spain is pretty much a dead economy, so I would rule that out. However, you might be able to get citizenship through your ancestral ties. Not sure if Spain offers that but the UK does.
If you are skilled or have money, you can find jobs in various hubs across Europe.

Post: #14

@rudebwoy where else do you have citizenship?
Within reason, you mean work?
Hubs? As in bars? Sorry if that comes off as ignorant.
I've been reading in to Spain and saw that their economy is hurting. I'm trying to find more out about their costs of living.

Post: #15

Ok you're still all over the place.

First, if you're joining the military, then you can probably get stationed abroad if you ask. There are US military bases all around the world.

As for skills, again you can ask the military to train you in a specific area (well, not sure you can ask or they just steer you one way based on your ASVAB).

If you have some blood from Spain, then Google around to see if you can apply for a Spanish passport. If you get that, you can live in all 28 EU countries as much and as long as you like.

Post: #16

Yeah I asked to be overseas, the Sergeant who I did the recruitment process with told me it's better. You rank up faster, work for the most part is more relaxed, and you get to travel. Depending on your job and their needs you can request to be stationed at a specific country although it's not guaranteed.

I got a good score on my asvab and got to pick my job as a computer technician. I'm going to hone the skill I've already developed and get professional experience. Get free schooling while I'm in there to push it further and go for a master's with the GI bill after.

I admit rereading this thread I see how I'm all over the place. I just needed to clear my head and vent.
I looked in to what you said I have to obtain proof that my great grandparents were citizens of the country which at the moment is out of the question to travel and get the specific documents. Not to say it can't be done later and give it a try.

Post: #17

@ Albert - hubs are what they call major cities, like London, Frankfurt, Amsterdam, Paris etc.

Spain would be very inexpensive to live compared to Northern Europe.

I think your best bet is too visit the region, I am sure it is not for everyone. I admire people who can give up the comforts of America to go live in Europe, then again I am Canadian.

Post: #18

Quote:I looked in to what you said I have to obtain proof that my great grandparents were citizens of the country which at the moment is out of the question to travel and get the specific documents. Not to say it can't be done later and give it a try.

Spain? Forget about it. If that were the case, pretty much all of latinamerica could ask for Spanish nationality and passport.

-How are you legally able to live and work somewhere without being a citizen?
Each country has their own restrictions and policies. Usually, you must have a contract already to legally immigrate and work in the country.
-Are there any restrictions?
Again depends. I haven't seen any job-related restrictions for me.
-Is there a time limit?
Your contract and your residence permit.
-If you become a citizen of a EU country does that enable you to easily travel or stay in another EU country?
Guaranteed, rather.

Post: #19

(12-17-2013 02:25 PM)Albert Wrote:  @Ice believe it or not I don't think the US is the best country in the world. I don't like American culture and many other things here. Taxes in Europe don't worry me. I know they're significantly higher.
Learning to ski would be cool lol and money is nice, but my main goal is to establish and settle down over there. I don't have to be rich. I live a minimal lifestyle now.

Yeah fair enough. I'm originally from Switzerland, Zürich, if you have any specific questions regarding Switzerland maybe I can help you ..

Post: #20

In the broader sense, you can't move away from something, you need to be moving towards something.

I know this sounds like a platitude, but I did it myself and spent years learning this.

Don't like bitchy American girls? Neither do I. But what girls DO you want? You can't just ELIMINATE something essential, you need to substitute something else that's better.

Don't like rat-race America where every middle class girl wants you to work 50 weeks a year 50 hours a week to buy a 500,000 dollar house, a 50k car and send kids to a 50k/yr school? And then take half of it all when you turn 50?

Well, where DO you want to live.

Thinking based on escape, rather than increased enjoyment, tends to lead to a learning experience where you miss the sanitation, rule of law, and technological advancement of first world countries.

Anyway, it did with me.

Post: #21

It's not about women. And I get what your saying. You're right. I didn't grow up first world so it wouldn't be too bad transitioning to a 3rd world country or poorer area in a fully developed country. This may sound weird, but I just want simple things. A little house on the hills, with a broad I wouldn't mind marrying, have a couple goats and some chickens, grow some vegetables and shit. Have the kids make me goat cheese lol. I've chased materials and money my whole life and so has everyone in my life. I'm OK with a simple life in some backwater area of Switzerland or Austria. I'm going to pursue a career in software engineering and try to land a job overseas when I'm out of the service.
Take it slow, save some money, invest in real estate or stock, until I can just get a house and buy a broad from an ice pit in Ukraine lol.

Post: #22

(12-18-2013 12:15 AM)paninaro Wrote:  If you have some blood from Spain, then Google around to see if you can apply for a Spanish passport. If you get that, you can live in all 28 EU countries as much and as long as you like.

With Spanish Grandparents it is not possible,at least one of the parents has to be a Spanish citizen. It is with Italians that this grandparent/great grandparent/great great grandparent thing can work.

Post: #23

(12-21-2013 05:57 AM)Sailor Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 12:15 AM)paninaro Wrote:  If you have some blood from Spain, then Google around to see if you can apply for a Spanish passport. If you get that, you can live in all 28 EU countries as much and as long as you like.

With Spanish Grandparents it is not possible,at least one of the parents has to be a Spanish citizen. It is with Italians that this grandparent/great grandparent/great great grandparent thing can work.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't aware of that.

Post: #24

Have fun finding a job in Switzerland Germany or Austria without speaking German. These countries have a high level of self-value perception. You'll have to assimiliate.

Also, suicide rates are among the highest in the world int hese countries. Have you ever thought about why that is so? As someone who has lived in Switzerland for several years, I can tell you. It's boring as fuck, its expensive (to the point that your additional gains get eaten up quickly unless you live like a balkan imigrant) and people are cold.

There's way better options in Europe. Although it really depends on 4 things.

Language skills, what is your job, do you have a problem with cold weather and how much do you value the easyness the women

Post: #25

(12-24-2013 05:58 PM)trainwreck Wrote:  Have fun finding a job in Switzerland Germany or Austria without speaking German. These countries have a high level of self-value perception. You'll have to assimiliate.

Also, suicide rates are among the highest in the world int hese countries. Have you ever thought about why that is so? As someone who has lived in Switzerland for several years, I can tell you. It's boring as fuck, its expensive (to the point that your additional gains get eaten up quickly unless you live like a balkan imigrant) and people are cold.

There's way better options in Europe. Although it really depends on 4 things.

Language skills, what is your job, do you have a problem with cold weather and how much do you value the easyness the women

The working language is English in any company worth working for. Outside of London, German-speaking Europe has the best job market by a longshot. You will find a job but the question is why would you want to live there? As you put it, those places are boring as fuck. Everyone follows the rules and and live in this collectivist/group-think little world. Either integrate and 'become a part of society' or... Plus, the women are worse than American women. I lived in Vienna for a year and I would have killed myself if I had to stay one day longer.