Post: #26

(12-11-2013 04:58 PM)Quintus Curtius Wrote:  Seems like a good man. The real test will be to see if he can get some desperately needed reforms going. To my thinking, the best would be getting rid of the rule of celibacy for all but the monastic orders. It makes no sense. Clerics are permitted to marry in Judaism, Islam, Eastern Orthodox Christian, and some other eastern rites (Coptic, Assyrian, etc.) It would enable the Church to attract men of more normal sexual appetites. I don't know why they don't change this. Even in the early centuries of the Church, priests were allowed to marry or maintain concubines.

I'm not a practicing Catholic, and only go to church on Christmas, but still...they should reform this rule.

If priests were allowed to marry and have sex with women then they would become the ultimate alphas in christian communities and other men would hate them.

Post: #27

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  He is liked by secularists who think church should be humble and should throw away it's money to the black hole of poor an lazy.

The previous emphasis of catholic church on anti-abortion and anti-homosexuality were also rather useless because they did not combat feminism - the main cause for abortion and socially celebrated homosexuality. They were fighting effects and not causes. But what Francis promotes is secular socialism.

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

Seeing as how he was a Jesuit from Latin America, he might be influenced by the church having a "preferential option for the poor" written about by Gutierrez and liberation of the oppressed by Freire. Liberation theology is a cultural force throughout a lot of Central and South America.

He might also be into that humble, servant thing Jesus had going.

Post: #28

(12-18-2013 10:16 AM)Osiris Wrote:  He might also be into that humble, servant thing Jesus had going.

Jesus is greatly misunderstood on this issue.

When Jesus said "whoever wants to be great must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be the willing slave of all" he basically meant the same as when Roosh said that to sell a lot of books you need to give people value. It was a practical down to earth business advice not some masochistic self whipping beta shit modern churchians and secularist believe it to be.

Post: #29

What did Jesus have to say about gays and birth control?

Seems there is no theological basis for the position of the Catholic Church. It is just a stance they have taken for hundreds of years.

Which is fine. But people are confusing the fact that the Church reflected societies prejudices for hundreds of years. But the fact there was no theological basis for doing so went unquestioned since society sided with the church.

Now that society has moved on - it isn't unreasonable for the church to change as well. Since the position of the church was never actually based on any of the teachings of Jesus. But instead a reflection of the majority opinion of society.

The same thing happened when the church decided to accept the teachings of Gallieo and Darwin.

Post: #30

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Post: #31

I'm an atheist now - but I used to be a Catholic altarboy. So - I am familiar with alot of the traditions of the church.

Post: #32

I was raised in the Catholic faith, my Father's Aunt was a Mother Superior and lived a life of service to others.

That said when the Church begged for donations to pay over $5 Billion in settlements to little boys who were butt blasted by homosexual predatory pedophile priests - crimes they should have all been imprisoned for and not sheltered by the Church moving these criminals around to new parishes so they could prey on more little boys.

I swore to never give another dime to the organized Church ever again.

I am now more Lutheran than Catholic in the critical spirit of the original Father Martin Luther.

That said, I just watched the sincerity and shared feeling of loss by Pope Francis at ground Zero and the 9/11 Memorial Museum and he mentioned the heroic first responders several times and met with a number of their families. I found this to be genuine and heartfelt even though he is the worlds most powerful social justice liberation theologian - it is likely that the Holy Father becomes the new patron saint of the NYC Fire Department, Police and EMT first responders.

Curious how former Mayor Michael Bloomberg injected himself into the 9/11 memorial proceedings with former Mayor Giuliani missing. Bloomberg must be on the board of the memorial foundation. Governor Cuomo actually showed up for blessings with his unmarried long time female "partner". Can't make this stuff up. Anything goes in 2015.

Post: #33

Post: #34

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Here's the thing: he's not "changing" the religion at all. Doctrines haven't been touched, and she's skirting closely around the limits of "infallability" to avoid making any direct comment on church theology. He's doing it all by means of masterful PR spin that gets leftists worked up and in a tizzy about how great he is. In other words he has not once said that gay marriage is OK but he's also made vague comments implying that it should be. The church can't hold him directly accountable but leftists get the queer fuzzies.

Post: #35

Is the Pope there to serve and guide the faithful, or the leftists?

Post: #36

(09-25-2015 11:57 AM)Deepdiver Wrote:  I was raised in the Catholic faith, my Father's Aunt was a Mother Superior and lived a life of service to others.

That said when the Church begged for donations to pay over $5 Billion in settlements to little boys who were butt blasted by homosexual predatory pedophile priests - crimes they should have all been imprisoned for and not sheltered by the Church moving these criminals around to new parishes so they could prey on more little boys.

I swore to never give another dime to the organized Church ever again.

It goes a little deeper than that. A lot of the coverup was orchestrated by a flaming leftist California cardinal by the name of Mahoney. Mahoney had been a longtime leftist agitator within the church. His stunts include advocating for the acceptance of gays into the church, repeated use of imagery that portrayed Jesus as female, and a strong push for a "gender inclusive" clergy. He had a long time feud with the Catholic media leader Mother Angelica(EWTN's founder) over many of those issues.

Not by coincidence the liberal movement in the American church fell silent a few years ago. What happened is that a lot of the liberal leaders in the church were also the same ones who were caught up in the abuse scandal and consequently forced out of the church.



VERY old video but worth watching if you're interested in the background of the fight against liberalism in the church:

Post: #37

The more I read about history and Christianity, the more I cannot separate the latter Roman empire from Christianity.

The Vatican and the Pope are the well-preserved and isolated zombie brain of the Roman Empire.

They subsumed Christianity after they originally fought it in order to help spread the Roman ideas. Now, they're subsuming western liberalism, making it their own, and attempting to continue the spread.

Rome never fell. It just lost the name.

Post: #38

(09-26-2015 12:37 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Here's the thing: he's not "changing" the religion at all. Doctrines haven't been touched, and she's skirting closely around the limits of "infallability" to avoid making any direct comment on church theology. He's doing it all by means of masterful PR spin that gets leftists worked up and in a tizzy about how great he is. In other words he has not once said that gay marriage is OK but he's also made vague comments implying that it should be. The church can't hold him directly accountable but leftists get the queer fuzzies.

I've got a friend who is a devout Catholic. He did two years as a college campus missionary (I didn't even think the Catholic church had missionaries anymore) and is currently in seminary right now to become a priest. He's a very conservative Catholic and loves Francis and he's always insisted to me that the Pope has never said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine and it's always the media trying to spin him into making him look like he's halfway on the road to heresy.

Post: #39

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Only as long as he's a valid pope. There are a lot of reasons for it, but this "pope" isn't valid. He's a heretic and heretics automatically give up their position in the church (and are automatically excommunicated in extreme cases).

He may wear the robes, be called "Your Holiness" and sit in the chair - but that chair is empty. St. Francis De Sales talked about it and Popes Innocent III, Leo XIII, St. Pius X and Pius IV all made ex cathedra statements about it.

Post: #40

(09-26-2015 01:08 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 12:37 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Here's the thing: he's not "changing" the religion at all. Doctrines haven't been touched, and she's skirting closely around the limits of "infallability" to avoid making any direct comment on church theology. He's doing it all by means of masterful PR spin that gets leftists worked up and in a tizzy about how great he is. In other words he has not once said that gay marriage is OK but he's also made vague comments implying that it should be. The church can't hold him directly accountable but leftists get the queer fuzzies.

I've got a friend who is a devout Catholic. He did two years as a college campus missionary (I didn't even think the Catholic church had missionaries anymore) and is currently in seminary right now to become a priest. He's a very conservative Catholic and loves Francis and he's always insisted to me that the Pope has never said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine and it's always the media trying to spin him into making him look like he's halfway on the road to heresy.

Here's the thing. He's HALF right. Francis has never directly said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine. However the operative word there is "directly". Pope Francis is smart enough not to say anything bluntly. Like most high profile leftists he is adept a using coded words and hidden meanings to effectively communicate his true meaning while not saying anything that would provide opponents with anything tangible they can use to unseat him.

Post: #41

(09-26-2015 12:58 PM)philosophical_recovery Wrote:  Rome never fell. It just lost the name.

You're fairly close. Do some research into an organization called "The Club of Rome".

Post: #42

(09-26-2015 01:12 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 01:08 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 12:37 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 02:18 AM)Mage Wrote:  I don't like the new pope.

....

He fits very well the image of how secular people think that a pope should be, but he is far from how religious people believe he should be.

You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Here's the thing: he's not "changing" the religion at all. Doctrines haven't been touched, and she's skirting closely around the limits of "infallability" to avoid making any direct comment on church theology. He's doing it all by means of masterful PR spin that gets leftists worked up and in a tizzy about how great he is. In other words he has not once said that gay marriage is OK but he's also made vague comments implying that it should be. The church can't hold him directly accountable but leftists get the queer fuzzies.

I've got a friend who is a devout Catholic. He did two years as a college campus missionary (I didn't even think the Catholic church had missionaries anymore) and is currently in seminary right now to become a priest. He's a very conservative Catholic and loves Francis and he's always insisted to me that the Pope has never said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine and it's always the media trying to spin him into making him look like he's halfway on the road to heresy.

Here's the thing. He's HALF right. Francis has never directly said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine. However the operative word there is "directly". Pope Francis is smart enough not to say anything bluntly. Like most high profile leftists he is adept a using coded words and hidden meanings to effectively communicate his true meaning while not saying anything that would provide opponents with anything tangible they can use to unseat him.

He "worshiped" in a Mosque and participated in all kinds of pagan "interfaith" services. St Thomas Aquinas directly condemned that as a sign of apostasy.

Post: #43

Source please

Post: #44

Pope Francis is Time's Man of the Year and all my leftist libtard friends love him. That tells me all I need to know.

Post: #45

(09-26-2015 03:32 PM)storm Wrote:  Source please

Here are two examples:

Quote:But then, when I entered the Mosque, I couldn’t say: now, I’m a tourist! No, it was completely religious. And I saw that wonder! The Mufti explained things very well to me, with such meekness, and using the Quran… He explained it all to me… At that moment I felt the need to pray. So I asked him: ‘Shall we pray a little?’. To which he responded: ‘Yes, yes’. I prayed for Turkey, for peace, for the Mufti, for everyone and for myself, as I need it … I prayed, sincerely…”

"Pope" Francis at his press conference on board the flight returning from Turkey on November30, 2014



This is condemned in Pope Pius XI's Mortalium Animos.

Quote:“Certainly such attempts can nowise be approved by Catholics, founded as they are on that false opinion which considers all religions to be more or less good and praiseworthy, since they all in different ways manifest and signify that sense which is inborn in us all, and by which we are led to God and to the obedient acknowledgment of His rule. Not only are those who hold this opinion in error and deceived, but also in distorting the idea of true religion they reject it, and little by little, turn aside to naturalism and atheism, as it is called; from which it clearly follows that one who supports those who hold these theories and attempt to realize them, is altogether abandoning the divinely revealed religion.”

That proves the error, but I can provide other sources if you need them.

Post: #46

(09-26-2015 01:20 PM)Captainstabbin Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 01:12 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 01:08 PM)Wutang Wrote:  

(09-26-2015 12:37 PM)Easy_C Wrote:  

(12-18-2013 01:54 PM)MHaes Wrote:  You know, I don't think it really matters whether or not you like the new Pope. Even though I haven't practiced Catholicism in some time, I grew up going to mass, going to Catholic schools, all that stuff. One thing I remember being told is that the Pope is God's representative on Earth. He is not your representative, he is God's, and is a mouthpiece for God. Not a mouthpiece for your political views.

If you are a practicing Catholic, just thought I'd give you that reminder. If not, then why do you care what the Pope is changing about modern Catholicism?

Here's the thing: he's not "changing" the religion at all. Doctrines haven't been touched, and she's skirting closely around the limits of "infallability" to avoid making any direct comment on church theology. He's doing it all by means of masterful PR spin that gets leftists worked up and in a tizzy about how great he is. In other words he has not once said that gay marriage is OK but he's also made vague comments implying that it should be. The church can't hold him directly accountable but leftists get the queer fuzzies.

I've got a friend who is a devout Catholic. He did two years as a college campus missionary (I didn't even think the Catholic church had missionaries anymore) and is currently in seminary right now to become a priest. He's a very conservative Catholic and loves Francis and he's always insisted to me that the Pope has never said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine and it's always the media trying to spin him into making him look like he's halfway on the road to heresy.

Here's the thing. He's HALF right. Francis has never directly said anything that contradicts Catholic doctrine. However the operative word there is "directly". Pope Francis is smart enough not to say anything bluntly. Like most high profile leftists he is adept a using coded words and hidden meanings to effectively communicate his true meaning while not saying anything that would provide opponents with anything tangible they can use to unseat him.

He "worshiped" in a Mosque and participated in all kinds of pagan "interfaith" services. St Thomas Aquinas directly condemned that as a sign of apostasy.

Reading skills brother. I said "half" right for a reason, specifically referring to where the guy said that Pope Francis has never directly said anything.