Post: #1

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I'm interested in agriculturally productive land as a long term investment.

Does anyone own land in the US or internationally? I'd be very interested in hearing your stories from the following contexts:

1. Why you did it

2. What kind of land you bought

3. What you learned

4. What unexpected problems you faced and how you dealt with it

5. Was it a good investment

Thanks.

Post: #2

The endgame to what I'm doing right now is the acquisition of a large amount of land in the Pacific Northwest. Hunting, fishing, and micro farming are things I enjoy, and I would love to get a few months a year up there, and maybe end up living there full time.

I have bought land in California before, but they were 1/4 to 1/2 acre lots for homes. Pure speculation that didn't end up biting me in the ass. Made decent money on them.

A friend of mine who has been in real estate investment for years told me some crazy shit about what the ultra-wealthy are doing. He started out specializing in reliction clauses and water rights, then moved on to rezoning residential property to commercial(insane money if you figure out how to do it right).

Now he (1) finds specific types of agricultural land, (2) buys massive acreage, (3) negotiates with a manager(glorified sharecropper) to farm a percentage of the land, (4)sets it up in a way that the owner can collect subsidies on all of the land even though only a small percentage if being farmed, and (5) sells it as an investment package for assholes to collect farm welfare as absentee owners.

His clients include people every political allegiance, and every major business sector. He did say that some of the most prominent people in the film industry who cry the most publicly over wealth inequality are his best customers(on a side note, my tax attorney says the same thing).

Post: #3

I do not own, but manage land for owners selling timber.

Timber/Forest land is a great investment. It provides a lazier income stream than farming, has interesting tax benefits and like most commodities rises along with inflation in price. You can also do hunting and water leases, conservation easement donations and other things with it before it becomes desirable property for an executive subdivision where they want big lots with trees between them.

In terms of return. Check out the number of people that have been jumping on board and investing in REITS and companies like Weyerhauser and Plum Creek....they are in the timber land business and you can do it on a small scale 80-1000 acres.

Last, aside from the investment, the ability to camp, hunt or fish on your own property is so much more relaxing than public land.

Post: #4

@wis

Are the owners paying for the cutting process or simply renting the land to private firms?

Post: #5

What would you be doing with this land?

if you're growing stuff (or having people pay you to be able to grow stuff) I'd look moreso into the product than the land.

The areas outside of Vancouver (the lower mainland) are great for growing things like berries. Everyone and their dog bought a blueberry farm now blueberries aren't worth shit and growers are getting 40 cents a lb for top quality berries.

Skip to some dude this summer in the same area who managed to get a good crop of kiwis growing. This guy will roll in $$$ if he can continue to produce.

If I were looking into buying land for the purpose of agriculture I would go small and pasture some animals, get organic certified then sell your high quality grass fed, organic, sake fed and hot bitch massaged beef to SWPLs at farmers markets.

But then again it all depends what kind of $$$ you're playing with (ie. Katatonics post)

Post: #6

http://www.amazon.com/Investing-Land-Suc...im_sbs_b_3

I'm in the land business. The best land book that I know of is the link above. Getting into this is a life-long activity. Land does not have the liquidity of a stock market investment and will often take many years to show potential spectacular returns. One of the easier concepts i've always paid attention to is: Buy a home on 10 acres in the path of growth.

Overall, I'd say this is the best time to buy "investment land" (in the path of growth). The homebuilding slowdown has many land investors looking to make an exit.

What I described above is different from "farmland investment". Farmland is running strong during these times. It is very secure and an inflation hedge. Many consider farmland better than a government bond and prices have been rising accordingly over the past few years.

Post: #7

Relevant article: Jim Rogers advises going long on agriculture

Post: #8

(12-07-2013 03:31 AM)Peregrine Wrote:  Relevant article: Jim Rogers advises going long on agriculture

Yes, Jim Rogers is the first one who turned me onto agriculture as a long term investment, inflation hedge, and means of providing and security to myself and family.

I'm also interested in urban aquaponics/aquaculture but that's a different thread.

Post: #9

I own land in Maine. Much of it is agricultural land and is utilized.upsides are borrowing capacity increased with minimal liability. Where I live agri land has doubled in value in the last 5 years. Minor improvements like ponds and drainage add value as well.

Post: #10

^What county?

Post: #11

Quite a few Asians (mostly Chinese and Korean) are buying large tracts of agricultural land in Saskatchewan, Canada in recent years. Most rent the land out to local farmers but many are taking up farming themselves, which is a good sign as not too many young Canadians are keen on farming these days. Saskatchewan is a huge exporter of grains such as wheat, canola, flaxseed, etc. From this article,

Quote:He took the plunge a year ago, putting down $1.5-million to buy 4,000 acres near Ogema, roughly 115 kilometres south of Regina. Soon he moved to Ogema with his wife Linda, daughters Jennifer and Angela, and friend Alice Jin, who was so new to Canada she had notes with English words plastered around her apartment in Regina. Ms. Jin bought the Rolling Hills Restaurant while the Zous became farmers.

“I am still trying to buy more land,” said Mr. Zou, a landed immigrant, who has rented out most of his property and farms the rest with local farmers who are teaching him the ropes. He hopes to one day manage all the land himself and to recruit more immigrants to Ogema. “I think that if I can teach basic farming to new immigrants, I see an opportunity,” he said. “It’s very easy for Chinese to accept this idea to buy farmland. It just makes sense.”

Post: #12

(12-07-2013 03:25 AM)GoodTimer Wrote:  http://www.amazon.com/Investing-Land-Suc...im_sbs_b_3

I'm in the land business. The best land book that I know of is the link above. Getting into this is a life-long activity. Land does not have the liquidity of a stock market investment and will often take many years to show potential spectacular returns. One of the easier concepts i've always paid attention to is: Buy a home on 10 acres in the path of growth.

Overall, I'd say this is the best time to buy "investment land" (in the path of growth). The homebuilding slowdown has many land investors looking to make an exit.

What I described above is different from "farmland investment". Farmland is running strong during these times. It is very secure and an inflation hedge. Many consider farmland better than a government bond and prices have been rising accordingly over the past few years.

Marlon Brando told a friend of mine that he would hop in his car, drive east from LA on the 10 freeway and buy land where the buildings stopped. I guess it worked for him.

Post: #13

Buying ag land is a massive investment. First off banks dont do 95% or even 75% LTV. Most of the time it is 50% loan to value. Although in Canada the government will back you up to 65% i Believe. Also the next biggest price tag which can even exceed the land is the equipment. A decent combine runs you about 100k right now. A brand new one with a 35' header is around 400k. You will also need a sprayer, seeder, a disc or harrow, a tractor to pull this shit. Maybe a baler and bale picker if you want to do hay.

Alberta has some of the most expensive land in north america for just straight farming. It is now impossible to make money with the price of irrigated land and what the grains are selling for. A lot of farmers and feedlot owners turned to Sask for dryland and they have pushed the prices sky high there for dryland. IMHO you have missed the boat, this would be like buying real estate in 2005 at this point. All the smart money was buying up farmland before the 07-08 crash.

Post: #14

Lots of small farms for sale in Southern European countries whose economies are in bad shape. Chinese investors are buying farms in Portugal, for example.

Suppose you buy a small farm in Portugal, Italy, Greece, or Spain. Say, 10 acres. You use 8 acres to plant orchards. Oranges are too cheap, and it's hard to compete with Brazil in the orange market, so go for fruits that grow in more mild climates and whose price per pound is high enough. I heard that pomegranates are a good investment. Cherries may be interesting, too, even if only for the beautiful cherry blossoms.

So, 8 acres of orchards. No need to mow the grass. Just buy a cow, and let her graze. And she produces some 5 gallons (= 20 liters) of milk per day. Lots of butter, cheese, and yoghurt. Plant some cabbage, lettuce, tomatoes, potatoes, beets, etc. Read some books on farming, learn from people who really know what they are doing.

Once you attain a sufficiently high level of knowledge and experience, it's time to acquire servants and relax. There's something called World Wide Opportunities on Organic Farms (WWOOF), which is like CouchSurfing for farms. Lots of young hippies all over Europe willing to work in organic farms in exchange for food and accommodation. Some of them are cute girls. Just build a small guest house for them, and they will be your willing slaves. Cost of labor = zero dollars. Sure, they cost food, electricity, and gas. But you can use vegetables you grow on your farm to feed them. Fortunately, lots of WWOOF'ers are vegetarian, which makes them even cheaper! Here are some WWOOF'ers in Portugal:





Ideal would be to plant 4 types of fruit-producing trees, one for each season of the year. Then, you could host WWOOF'ers for 2-3 weeks per season, when it's time to pick fruit. Remember Tom Sawyer whitewashing the fence!! Make it look like lots of fun, and you will find decadent urbanites willing to work for you for free. This is my retirement plan.

Post: #15

(12-08-2013 09:26 AM)Icarus Wrote:  Ideal would be to plant 4 types of fruit-producing trees, one for each season of the year. Then, you could host WWOOF'ers for 2-3 weeks per season, when it's time to pick fruit. Remember Tom Sawyer whitewashing the fence!! Make it look like lots of fun, and you will find decadent urbanites willing to work for you for free. This is my retirement plan.

Hahah damn that seems great.

Post: #16

The Agribusiness ETF is a simple and diversified way to invest in this sector.

I love its ticker name - MOO.

It is invested in the best fertilizer, seed, and farm equipment companies :

http://www.vaneck.com/market-vectors/equ.../holdings/

Post: #17

(12-08-2013 10:23 AM)Steve9 Wrote:  The Agribusiness ETF is a simple and diversified way to invest in this sector.

I love its ticker name - MOO.

It is invested in the best fertilizer, seed, and farm equipment companies :

http://www.vaneck.com/market-vectors/equ.../holdings/

Might not be a bad way to play the sector, but you need to watch the volume on that ETF.... It sure as shit hasnt had much lately... Those kind of stocks can crush you if selling picks up

Post: #18

@Anti - the logger usually buys the wood directly from the landowner and discounts the sale price for the cost to harvest. The big time land owners will negotiate contracts directly with a processing facility and then pay a logger to cut the wood and haul it. Most people are in the selling directly the the logger situation in America.

Good adds on agriculture from Scotian and Japan. I think its late in the game to get in on farmland, the tax breaks and grants available to just rent out your farmland to someone else to use are amazing and people have been trying to pick up good farmland for a while, wheras wood/timber is just starting to get busy again in terms of investors.

Also, BiginJapan makes a good point about the costs to get into ag. Its expensive, you're tied to product and financing whereas with wood many people dont' know the value of what they are sitting on. Its possible to buy what someone considers 'hunting land' and heavily log it right away to pay off financing used to make the purchase, from there spend $360/hectare aka $180/acre reforesting it and you're building value again.

The difference between timber and corn is that the value of timber is incremental past a certain size. As trees grow bigger, they accumulate more wood on the stump until you're ready to sell. Corn isn't worth anything until its matured. With wood you just have to hope it doesn't catch on fire.

Last, if you buy wood close to a community, the chances are that someone is going to want to buy it for recreation, a cottage, secluded subdivision or estate before its ever harvested again. That is happening all over Wisconsin, what was logged and replanted is now the most appealing for development into 'wooded semi rural housing'