Post: #26

(12-18-2013 10:46 AM)bike0369 Wrote:  she hits me on my face. In a flirty way, but hit nevertheless. I immediately made it clear that it was wrong and she profoundly apologizes. 5 mins later, her idiot of a friend joins her and they're taking about them both being single. I completely ignore them both but inside I'm pissed at the friend for breaking the rhythm.

When the friend leaves, we start slowly, but are in good shape in few mins. Again heavy flirting, and I didn't see it coming but she hits me in the face again. Then says sorry like five times, and that it was out of love ???!!!!. I stayed calm, and tell her that I don't take shit, and calmly leave the bar.

Q: what would the pros here would have done?

Q: I also think this chick maybe into BDSM, am I reading correct or not?

Just go talk to a girl at the bar while she is talking with her friend. Demonstrate how her value fluctuates with action.
How much did she drink?

Post: #27

I did speak to another girl for a couple mins. Three drinks - including a shot

Post: #28

(12-18-2013 10:46 AM)bike0369 Wrote:  I met this Singaporean Indian chick today after we been in touch for 9 months or so.

I trust you have a good reason for holding a prospect this long without meeting her? Aside from that the face slapping is just a playful shit test she was looking to see how you would react you should have playfully "slapped"(brownie point if its her ass) back its shows your dominance. I hate to tell you this but you failed the shit test by getting serious over something that was playful. She was looking to find your insecurity, and I'm not trying to be an asshole but I have to say she did.

Edit: Also, what happened to Shotgun Styles I was enjoying some of his stuff?

Post: #29

Thanks mate, feedback accepted. I'm going through a rather lean patch where I'm getting first dates almost every other day, but no closure for past two months. Living off the FWB that I made in August. And I seriously could do with new pussy, and/or solid feedback on what I'm doing wrong. So, thank you.

Post: #30

""Yeah, but what if she really doesn't call, Shotgun?" Then fuck her!"

Liked...

Post: #31

Wrote this in notch thread, copying here for context:

So the date above went nowhere, but I asked the other girl I met while at that old date after two days for drinks. Bar near my place, hop to another one, then took her home. Start stop to overcome the LMR and then took her in bedroom and bang.

Steam off, look fwd to holidays and 2014 now.

Post: #32

This thread needed to be upped.

Frame is not an easy thing. Currently I'm with a sort of 'alpha girl' who's incredibly hot and knows how to fuck, but the has a really shitty attitude. On top of that we don't live in the same city, so you can imagine when I travel to meet her and she acts out, it's very difficult for me to walk away. If I do, she doesn't care and I'm left in the street in another city, but sometimes it has to be done. You always have to be able to walk out and also actually do it, I forget this often, it is a fault in my game still.

She knows she has tons of other guys soothing her, but then again so do I have lots of other girls. It becomes a power game then, but unfortunately one you have to play. If she doesn't give in, you have to let her go or find a way to threat her like a ho, without it being inconvenient or damaging for you. It takes a cold man to do that with a super hot girl, but get this straight, no woman can ever be put above your ego. You hold the most value. Always.

Flip those plates, you can't rely on just one.

Post: #33

Fantastic thread. Thanks for bumping.

The power of "no" is strong and timeless, and I feel like it has exponentially more power the more attractive and "high demand" a broad is. This is a tool I have rarely if ever used effectively, but I need to implement it.

I am weak with women who I desire. A cute chick with a pretty face and tight body who acts all lovey-dovey with me when we're around can easily wrap me around her finger and I find it difficult to hold frame. Probably my biggest pitfall in game that this thread may me realize more than any other.

The best way to combat this is to know that there are billions of other women out there. Thousands upon thousands of them are within 25 miles of where you live, and a good portion of them will fit your looks preference and could be very dateable when it comes down to it. No one chick is going to break the bank so if she is not doing what you want her to do then kindly show her the door.

The hardest part is resisting a girl's plea to let her stay on the train. If you make it clear you don't like what she's been putting down and she wants to turn it around, it can be difficult to say no to pretty face begging for you. I've been there and it is a serious test of will... but I've also let a girl stay in after swearing to fix her act and it burned me everytime.

Post: #34

Who was Shotgun Styles? He came to the forum, made some really good posts, then was banned for being a previously banned member. I can't figure out who he was.

Post: #35

(11-10-2015 08:33 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  Who was Shotgun Styles? He came to the forum, made some really good posts, then was banned for being a previously banned member. I can't figure out who he was.

I've seen him get banned on other forums.

WIA

Post: #36

(11-10-2015 11:51 PM)WestIndianArchie Wrote:  

(11-10-2015 08:33 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  Who was Shotgun Styles? He came to the forum, made some really good posts, then was banned for being a previously banned member. I can't figure out who he was.

I've seen him get banned on other forums.

WIA

He was banned on McQueen's forum. Someone thought he was rationalize_this, but I really don't know.

Post: #37

He isn't rationalize_this unless I'm victim to some Kaiser Sose shyt.

Post: #38

Screw it
This was a good thread

Post: #39

(12-05-2013 11:43 PM)Shotgun Styles Wrote:  A woman should be nice and she should behave. Feel free to establish this early on, once your value to her has been established. Being direct and assertive, drawing lines early, will prevent future mishaps.

This was a great post just for the thoughts on being willing to walk out the door or to show her to it, but I also think this tidbit here is often overlooked and underestimated. When you first start seeing a woman you think you could really come to like, it's so easy to let little shit go because you don't want to upset the honeymoon phase or because you figure she'll come around later on or that you'll call her out eventually when you've got her more hooked.

So, you ignore bad behavior here and there in an effort to not rock the boat quite yet. Huge mistake if you really do plan to keep her around.

Because the more you let her get away with, the more her confidence grows in what she can get away with and the more she thinks she's in charge. Eventually these problems grow to the point that when you do finally address them, it's sometimes too late and you get more blowback when you throw down because you inflated her ego too much. No one likes their ego challenged. And that can lead to the whole thing falling apart.

The end result is that your permissiveness early on spoils what could have been a damn good girl had you been willing to stand up and call her shit out when it was uncomfortable.

My sweet spot is relationships, and one thing I challenge myself to do is be willing to stir shit up even early on in a relationship if a girl is out of line or if she just has certain behaviors I don't like. Often I just do this in a lightehearted manner but I'm more than willing to get serious about it as needed.

Is she acting like spoiled bitch one night because you've been treating her well and it's going to her head? Trying to boss you around or whine? Literally open the door and tell her it's time to go home - sometimes she crumples and even cries and you can accept that as a concession and agreement she'll shape up and let her stay, but sometimes you need to send her on home regardless too and tell her you'll just have to give it another go later.

Is she playing on her phone all night? Call her out on it multiple times in a joking manner and then send her a text later about how annoying it was. I have walked out of the movie theater lobby when a girl was sitting there playing on her phone the whole time across the room from me, and later she just begged for a second date - they understand when they've crossed the line, and your calling it out really puts their behavior in perspective for them.

Does she show up somewhere to meet you looking all half-assed put together? Half-jokingly tell her she looks like a bum and that it's a matter of pride for you to have an attractive, well put-together woman at your side. Does she always wear her hair up when she looks 10 times better with it down? Playfully tease her about it and pull her hair tie off every chance you get until she gets the point and always shows up with it down.

Is she rude to your friends upon meeting them? This is one of my biggest peeves and I have sent women packing for that too. If she has some other flaw like being unwilling to cook or clean or whatever, straight up tell her you don't think she's your type. If you keep mentioning it, she'll often start teaching herself to cook or make it a habit to help out more.

Or she cusses like a sailor? Explain to her how ugly it sounds, and if she doesn't stop, be willing to get up and leave. After you establish how much it bothers you, you can just give her a disgusted or slightly annoyed look every time she lets one slip; she'll often catch herself and apologize before you get the chance.

Bring these things up without being emotional when you can - it's not about throwing a fit, it's just about being 100% clear about what you want out of a woman. A key phrase I often use when she texts later is "Listen, I'm not mad at you, but [...]"

And if it's getting to the point where you're calling her out so much that it seems like an unhealthy interaction, just go silent on her for a little while and watch what happens.

But here's something I think often gets dismissed - a little bad behavior doesn't necessarily mean you have to go completely nuclear on them. That can be a mistake too and ruin a possibly good thing. Personally, I call it out, but I don't mind giving her a chance to rise to that opportunity to change if she wants - in other words, don't hold it against her if she wants to make another effort. You have to be somewhat flexible here and reward her with affection when she improves.

If she doesn't want to walk in step, that's okay too, there are plenty of other girls out there who will, as well as many other guys that may be more suitable for her and put up with the BS.

But it's important to remember good women can misbehave also - doesn't necessarily make them bad women. Just means they've learned some bad habits from all the other guys willing to put up with their shit. And you can lead them to a better way if you're willing to risk the entire relationship by speaking your mind and calling her on her bullshit early in the beginning. Feel free to get confrontational; your call-outs win her respect and get her on board, or it weeds her out and you can move on - either way, you still win.

The kicker is that the more you ask her to shape up if she wants to stick around, the more she invests in the experience and the more hooked she becomes as a result.

And the more hooked she gets, the more she's willing to tailor her behavior to win your favor without you even asking.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #40

My last regular fb and myself started to go more serious...she was always on time, never flaked on me and was eager to see me.
One day I told her if this keeps going in the direction it was no fuckin around as kids were involved and we will take next step.
My next words were if you dont like that say it now. I told her if I ever caught her dirty she would be cut like a 10th round draft pick. She said ok and it was back to normal. I would have walked in a new york minute if I smelled danger.

Post: #41

Great post by Beyond Border's.

I'm in an LTR myself for quite a while. Once we both felt that it became more than just sex, I established a few clear rules:
It's immediately over if:
-she cheats on me with another guy
-she gets even a little chubby
-she cuts her hair short or stops dressing in a feminine way
-she disrespects me, my parents or close friends
-she is unpleasant to be around

In return, she was brutaly honest as well. She admitted that she would dump me if:
-I stopped fucking her hard and dominantly
-I got out of shape
-I became an eager to please nice guy and gave in to her whims
-I stopped leading her and taking the decisions (she didn't state thsi one explicitly, but it was very clear)

So far this works perfectly. Occasional bad behavior (playing with her phone, ..) gets punished by ignoring or spanking her.

I feel like a lot of guys are setting up their relationships for failure by not establishing clear rules from the beginning.

Post: #42

Bingo. BB nailed it.

Again, the key is to lead women. For those who didn't have a strong parents (especially a father) teaching them discipline, punctuality, manners & basic etiquette, these women tend to behave poorly... therefore you must be the role model and example if you want her to fall in line.

Now that being said, some I would consider "lost causes" or "just not my type." It's up to you to determine how much effort you're willing to put into training a woman to behave. Often, the more attractive they are, the more you're willing to put up with. Just don't let them lead or get away with nonsense or you've lost off the bat.

It's no different in management or parenting. The more you let someone get away with, the more they are going to continue with said behavior. You don't let the inmates run the prison - it's your responsibility to set the bar and keep them in line. If she knows you won't tolerate a certain behavior and you hold the upper hand, viola - you get the desired outcome.

Post: #43

(12-28-2015 06:44 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Bingo. BB nailed it.

Again, the key is to lead women. For those who didn't have a strong parents (especially a father) teaching them discipline, punctuality, manners & basic etiquette, these women tend to behave poorly... therefore you must be the role model and example if you want her to fall in line.

Now that being said, some I would consider "lost causes" or "just not my type." It's up to you to determine how much effort you're willing to put into training a woman to behave. Often, the more attractive they are, the more you're willing to put up with. Just don't let them lead or get away with nonsense or you've lost off the bat.

It's no different in management or parenting. The more you let someone get away with, the more they are going to continue with said behavior. You don't let the inmates run the prison - it's your responsibility to set the bar and keep them in line. If she knows you won't tolerate a certain behavior and you hold the upper hand, viola - you get the desired outcome.

Agreed. Definitely don't forgive too much. And there's a big difference in your results depending on the message you send.

There's, "I really want this to work, so can you change that about yourself so we can be together?"

Obviously wrong attitude and message. That's more like what I was arguing against in my recent post about resisting the urge to "tame" women (which is actually not a contradiction to this one if you understand the vibe correctly).

And then there's, "This is the type of woman I will allow around, and you have two choices - either be her or be gone."

Allowing her breathing room to correct is not the same as compromising or begging her to change, and if she keeps doing the same shit over and over again, she's a lost cause who is unable or unwilling to play ball - get rid of her.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #44

(12-28-2015 07:39 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  

(12-28-2015 06:44 AM)Gmac Wrote:  Bingo. BB nailed it.

Again, the key is to lead women. For those who didn't have a strong parents (especially a father) teaching them discipline, punctuality, manners & basic etiquette, these women tend to behave poorly... therefore you must be the role model and example if you want her to fall in line.

Now that being said, some I would consider "lost causes" or "just not my type." It's up to you to determine how much effort you're willing to put into training a woman to behave. Often, the more attractive they are, the more you're willing to put up with. Just don't let them lead or get away with nonsense or you've lost off the bat.

It's no different in management or parenting. The more you let someone get away with, the more they are going to continue with said behavior. You don't let the inmates run the prison - it's your responsibility to set the bar and keep them in line. If she knows you won't tolerate a certain behavior and you hold the upper hand, viola - you get the desired outcome.

Agreed. Definitely don't forgive too much. And there's a big difference in your results depending on the message you send.

There's, "I really want this to work, so can you change that about yourself so we can be together?"

Obviously wrong attitude and message. That's more like what I was arguing against in my recent post about resisting the urge to "tame" women (which is actually not a contradiction to this one if you understand the vibe correctly).

And then there's, "This is the type of woman I will allow around, and you have two choices - either be her or be gone."

Allowing her breathing room to correct is not the same as compromising or begging her to change, and if she keeps doing the same shit over and over again, she's a lost cause who is unable or unwilling to play ball - get rid of her.

I think the challenge here is to strike the perfect balance between not giving in and not showing insecurity by acting up too much. I would say, that for the first 1 or 2 times she does something that the guy doesn't like, it is better to bring her aside and let her know you don't like her behaviour in a cold matter-of-fact way. If she does it a again, ignore her and if she continues doing it, drop her.

What do you guys think?

Post: #45

^ Fair enough approximation, I suppose, if you're talking about one particular issue, but it's so hard to put specific numbers on these things. Hell, it's hard to even describe it sometimes, to be honest, because some dynamics just take experience to really feel out.

For the record, anyone who is a newbie who's reading this stuff is probably better off just ignoring it and focusing on the more directly practical early game stuff because owning a woman on an emotional and mental level is a whole different ballgame and pretty complex, and most definitely not a prerequisite to getting laid.

There's no real A to Z recipe. I mean, that's true with seduction in general but even moreso here. I can tell you I've crashed and burned and fucked up so many times to gain the insights i do have and even then there's plenty more to learn in my lifetime. I'll crash and burn more.

Sometimes I break my own rules just because I'm bored or because I want to challenge my presuppositions. I'm confident enough in my ability to recover a fumble and I could care less enough that why not? And it helps me hold on to the wild card, which is one of my aces in the hole when it comes to the relationship stuff.

I'm good at emotional warfare because I've had a lot of dysfunctional relationships and also have connected so deeply.

I guess what I mean to say is that for me there are no rules.

Not that I think you're a newb, but assigning a specific number on something like this, while tempting, misses a lot of the intuitive nature of it all. I could nod my head in agreement, but it would be far from honest or complete as far as answers go.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #46

Great stuff BB. That's how I operate. This is definitely NOT newbie stuff, and if you are a newbie, a lot can backfire. You actually have to BE high value in order for most of this to work.

When you have direction, purpose, and accomplishment in your life, it almost automatically builds a certain frame that women fall into. Or at least the worthwhile women do. Those who agitate or just seem to cause you friction are better cast off.

I fear there is sometimes a little too much emphasis on women being "perfect" in some way. They, just like we, are going to make mistakes. Or do things that piss us off. The important thing, to paraphrase MLK, is that the arc of a woman bends towards pleasantness.

Post: #47

(12-28-2015 11:02 AM)Beyond Borders Wrote:  ^ Fair enough approximation, I suppose, if you're talking about one particular issue, but it's so hard to put specific numbers on these things. Hell, it's hard to even describe it sometimes, to be honest, because some dynamics just take experience to really feel out.

For the record, anyone who is a newbie who's reading this stuff is probably better off just ignoring it and focusing on the more directly practical early game stuff because owning a woman on an emotional and mental level is a whole different ballgame and pretty complex, and most definitely not a prerequisite to getting laid.

There's no real A to Z recipe. I mean, that's true with seduction in general but even moreso here. I can tell you I've crashed and burned and fucked up so many times to gain the insights i do have and even then there's plenty more to learn in my lifetime. I'll crash and burn more.

Sometimes I break my own rules just because I'm bored or because I want to challenge my presuppositions. I'm confident enough in my ability to recover a fumble and I could care less enough that why not? And it helps me hold on to the wild card, which is one of my aces in the hole when it comes to the relationship stuff.

I'm good at emotional warfare because I've had a lot of dysfunctional relationships and also have connected so deeply.

I guess what I mean to say is that for me there are no rules.

Not that I think you're a newb, but assigning a specific number on something like this, while tempting, misses a lot of the intuitive nature of it all. I could nod my head in agreement, but it would be far from honest or complete as far as answers go.

Actually, I can be considered a newb to game. What would you say would be the takeaway for me from this thread at this level?

Post: #48

^ Frame.

Beyond All Seas

"The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe.
To be your own man is a hard business. If you try it, you'll be lonely often, and sometimes
frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself." - Kipling

Post: #49

This is all true and good, but the annoying thing about women is they will ALWAYS revert to bad behavior and testing you, for the ENTIRE relationship.

Its just their nature. So like little kids, you have to always remain vigilant and enforce the boundaries and minimum acceptable level of behavior.

Like parenting, it's easy to just get worn down, tired of being the police and the effort to keep the law and order, and that's when the LTR goes down the drain. She senses that you are no longer in the control she craves.

Never being able to relax in an LTR is a bit of a downer.

Post: #50

(12-29-2015 03:53 PM)RatInTheWoods Wrote:  This is all true and good, but the annoying thing about women is they will ALWAYS revert to bad behavior and testing you, for the ENTIRE relationship.

Its just their nature. So like little kids, you have to always remain vigilant and enforce the boundaries and minimum acceptable level of behavior.

Like parenting, it's easy to just get worn down, tired of being the police and the effort to keep the law and order, and that's when the LTR goes down the drain. She senses that you are no longer in the control she craves.

Never being able to relax in an LTR is a bit of a downer.

I definitely understand where you're coming from.

You should look at it in a positive light, though, because you won't ever be able to change that. You also have to realize that everything in life is like that. If you don't put in some effort and drive the situation it will eventually deteriorate without direction/maintenance.

There's nothing inherently wrong or negative about that unless you subscribe to that idea.