Post: #1

Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm posting about a friend of mine who is completely whipped by his girlfriend. He acts alpha as shit with the guys. Plays sports playing, friendly, commands the room. And when he's away from his girlfriend (not immediate vicinity), he acts aloof and has a strong frame. He'll reject plans to see her when he's with the guys, he's absolutely refused to "facebook date" despite being with her for four years, etc.

But she wears the pants once she's near him. I've noticed she'll completely disregard him when he tells her not to come because he's got his mates over. She'll just show up anyway, and then he'll just fall all over himself taking care of her (this has happened multiple times). She'll start yelling and he'll quietly take it, and then eventually apologize to us about her and say we're welcome to leave if she's bothering us. She's even hit him a few times, and once left a black eye.

I feel like he's only a short step from being "red pill", but I've mentioned some attitudes toward women that I have and he's expressed skepticism. Is there any way to start him on the road toward success in the female department? He's a good friend of mine and I think it's worth the effort.

(As an aside, I can't just try to mimic the path I followed with him, because I swallowed the red pill after watching my dad get divorce raped and went online to see what other people have done, and stumbled across RooshV and RoK.)

Post: #2

(11-26-2013 07:39 PM)Texas_Tryhard Wrote:  Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm posting about a friend of mine who is completely whipped by his girlfriend. He acts alpha as shit with the guys. Plays sports playing, friendly, commands the room. And when he's away from his girlfriend (not immediate vicinity), he acts aloof and has a strong frame. He'll reject plans to see her when he's with the guys, he's absolutely refused to "facebook date" despite being with her for four years, etc.

But she wears the pants once she's near him. I've noticed she'll completely disregard him when he tells her not to come because he's got his mates over. She'll just show up anyway, and then he'll just fall all over himself taking care of her (this has happened multiple times). She'll start yelling and he'll quietly take it, and then eventually apologize to us about her and say we're welcome to leave if she's bothering us. She's even hit him a few times, and once left a black eye.

I feel like he's only a short step from being "red pill", but I've mentioned some attitudes toward women that I have and he's expressed skepticism. Is there any way to start him on the road toward success in the female department? He's a good friend of mine and I think it's worth the effort.

(As an aside, I can't just try to mimic the path I followed with him, because I swallowed the red pill after watching my dad get divorce raped and went online to see what other people have done, and stumbled across RooshV and RoK.)

Yes. There are enough Alpha-with-men,Beta-with-female stereotypes out there to recognize that this is not an isolated incident.

Bear with me, this might be a long post.

The reasons have been documented here before, and it would suffice for us to realize that your alpha friend might need to change through a relatively lesser degree than, say an utter omega.
Men who are Alpha with other men are usually very competitive, hate losing, and do not give up as easily. Omegas, on the other hand, are accustomed to folding at the slightest sign of resistance, and hence, their entire inner game needs to be ripped away from its foundations and built anew.

However, most people who stumble upon red pill literature and choose to change are people who've been bitten in the ass, usually badly. You, for example, saw your dad get divorce raped. I came home to a cheating ex. A lot of the people who are"red pill aware", so to speak, will have experienced similar emotional (and at times, physical) trauma. This trauma is crucial to accepting the bitter pill.

Think about this for a minute.
The number of articles written on it are increasing, people are postulating that the manosphere will hit the mainstream etc etc, and, if you were keeping in touch with the piece of brilliance that Tuthmosis produced recently, one can safely say that enough (male)eyeballs view red pill literature.

Why then, are converts so low, when it is so fucking obvious that this is the only(albeit sometimes ugly) way?
Ignore the shrill screaming of feminists, ignore the shaming that "society" so to speak, imposes on men. Men are still, even in today's world, free to think what they want to, regardless of how they speak or act. Most men are NOT manginas, most men are much more rational then females. Yes?

Problem is, most men, including your friend, are driven by fear, and cognitive dissonance being the bitch it is, choose to rationalize and consolidate their own(betatizing society's) view, ignoring what is the truth. Yes, there are men who convert merely on exposure to the red pill, but exceptions do not make the rule.

When you have lost everything, you are free to do anything.

Well, kinda.
When such men get dumped/cheated/divorce raped and their entire world comes crashing down, their set of beliefs regarding women is exposed as the BS it is, and the crazy chemical cocktail of regret, pain of loss, fear of the future, fear of dying alone, fear of being excommunicated(marginalized) from society, a scarcity mentality strengthened by years of practice, kick in.
Millions of examples of how crazy and vulnerable men are, when in such a scenario. Reeling from this trauma, the brain seeks to invest in a new set of ideas, a different mindset, and becomes more open to accepting alternative ideals. More willing(maybe even driven) to try new things. An exposure to red pill beliefs at this time helps, because a man can then see it more-or-less for what it is, and not through a lens colored by his ego-investment or by the prevalent societal beliefs and a fear of loss.
Hence, easier to accept the bitter pill when you're broken.

"Why do my eyes hurt?"
Because you've never used them before"

Coming to the more practical purpose of showing your friend the light, I suggest you don't do it in an overt way. Like this ---
" but I've mentioned some attitudes toward women that I have and he's expressed skepticism. "

I suggest you do it covertly. Gradually.
Definitely do not tell him his girl is a bitch or "throw mud" at their relationship --he'll just backward rationalize that you're jealous of them, or that you have some sort of hidden agenda and he WILL start disliking you.

Show him how you text girls. Show him how all of them behave in predictable ways. Show him how girls compete for a taken man. Show him how they cheat on betas. Show him how there are no marginal returns on women. Show him how unhappy men in relationships are. Show him how, by changing/alternating their behavior, men are able to get better hand in the relationship.

And while you are doing this, challenge him (covertly) to effect small changes in his behavior. The smaller the change, the easier he should comply. When he sees, how this behavior improves his relationship, he will gradually open up to bigger changes. Success in enough reproductive proxies should, over a period of time, make him see game for what it is, not the warped version he currently perceives it to be.

Or when he sees himself making the same mistakes that betas make enough times, his brain may have an "Aha!" moment and start thinking seriously(subconsciously?) and challenging his beliefs on relationships in general.

A caveat though -- some people choose to stay invested in their beliefs regardless of some, or even many contradictions to these beliefs. One's sensitivity to such contradictions varies from person to person, and some people choose despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary, to stay plugged in to the matrix.

Or, as Teddy says to Chuck at the end of the movie Shutter Island ---

"Which would be worse: To live as a monster, or to die as a good man?"

Some people CHOOSE to stay plugged. You cannot help them.

Good luck.
May all betas have friends like you.

Post: #3

Truly excellent and thorough post, Sharkie. Thanks for your advice, I'll definitely put it to work!

Post: #4

Sure.

You'll find that people with a predominantly Alpha outlook tend to respond better if you mildly challenge them.
People with low esteem or predominantly Beta tendencies respond better if you slightly dominate them and tell them what they do.

Depends also on how positively they perceive you, the nature of your relationship to them, how well you're able to impart your "wisdom", how well you can mix soft dominance and challene etc, but these are dynamic and can (be) change(d).

Post: #5

(11-27-2013 08:24 AM)Sharkie Wrote:  Sure.

You'll find that people with a predominantly Alpha outlook tend to respond better if you mildly challenge them.
People with low esteem or predominantly Beta tendencies respond better if you slightly dominate them and tell them what they do.

Depends also on how positively they perceive you, the nature of your relationship to them, how well you're able to impart your "wisdom", how well you can mix soft dominance and challene etc, but these are dynamic and can (be) change(d).

I've noticed this too. When you try and dominate others, you'll get two types of people:

One who challenges you back.
One who defers

The ones that challenge me back tend to become friends. Girls in the same vein, except they'll submit in an odd way that isn't like a classic beta male.

All alphas tend to be on the same level and will respond in kind if you challenge their authority.

It's funny when you challenge a girl who is domineering her "alpha" dog boy friend. Puts you in an even more interesting place as the "leader of men" has been usurped by a woman who has been usurped by a latent lover (http://heartiste.wordpress.com/2013/11/2...-easily/).

Makes you wonder who the real leader of the pack is...

Post: #6

Is this guy happy? If he's happy, then who gives a shit?

I thought this thread was going to be about you. Not your friend.

Post: #7

Another thought is to buy Athol Kay's MMSL primer and give it to him when the GF isn't around. Say something like, "As your friend, I think you need to read this book when your GF isn't around."

Another great book for guys like this (who will actually read something) is Robert Glover's "No More Mr. Nice Guy."