Post: #26

(11-28-2013 09:40 AM)2014 Wrote:  so knight knox is the best one you've gone with or was is heights holdings? or are they the same?? Thanks bro!

I just use Knightknox, i've been dealing with the same guy for a few years so he is my single point of contact for any queries I have and he keeps me informed for other interesting developments.
Heights holdings is developer based in Thailand, I could have tried going direct through them and haggling on price but I didn't, should I buy at another one of their developments in future I'll give that a go to compare.

Post: #27

thanks brisey

so the £16,500 quoted on the website means 100% ownership?

I can buy it, then rent it out for 10 months a year and holiday 2 months a year?

Essentially I have the funds to buy, I want to know about exit strategies (how easily can I sell it? and name my price?) as well as income streams (long-term rents and also holiday rentals), what do you do with regard to your properties you've acquired through them and what kind of ROI are you yielding per year?

Solid info so far bro, repped

Post: #28

(11-28-2013 11:50 AM)2014 Wrote:  thanks brisey

so the £16,500 quoted on the website means 100% ownership?

I can buy it, then rent it out for 10 months a year and holiday 2 months a year?

Essentially I have the funds to buy, I want to know about exit strategies (how easily can I sell it? and name my price?) as well as income streams (long-term rents and also holiday rentals), what do you do with regard to your properties you've acquired through them and what kind of ROI are you yielding per year?

Solid info so far bro, repped

No problem, regarding the % of ownership the following applies:
A foreigner is only able to own Condominiums as 100% freehold in their name. No other type of property can be owned this way. This is possible under the Condominium act which stipulates that a development with a Thai Condominium Licence may sell 49% of the saleable area of a given building to non-Thai nationals under a Freehold title, the remaining 51% of the given building may only be Leased for a term of 30 years or sold to Thai nationals as Freehold in the case that a foreigner has a Thai Limited company they could buy a condominium in Thailand in the company name as a Thai freehold title.

So you'd own 49% but this would not affect any rentals and you would still be able to sell it. Concerning rentals, the developers usually offer a management service where they handle the rental side of things, the figures I see offered are 10%+ yields, as you'd own the place you could stay there/rent out as you see fit.
If you buy off plan there is still the option to sell before the development is complete, often at a profit depending on how far advanced the construction is. Once completed you can expect a 30-40%+ uplift if you got in at the beginning.

Only 1 of the 4 I own is complete, rental yields are good and improving every quarter due to the reviews it's getting. I am still considering selling after the peak season (I bought for 40K GBP and it should go for around 68K). If you have the funds now, you would not need the entire amount, perhaps only 10-20% to begin with and pay the rest as it's being built. For example for the Laguna Beach resort I have the following payment plan:
Deposit - 23009 THB
Contract signature - 136790 THB
November 11 - 136790 THB
November 12 - 136790 THB
November 13 - 136790 THB
Completion - 63920 THB

Payment terms are flexible, if you are really interested PM me for my the details of my contact at Knightknox and he'll be able to sort you something out or give more info on the legal/ownership side of things.
Bit of a long winded post there but I hope it helps.

Thanks for the rep.

Post: #29

Do you know of a comparable broker in the US by chance?

Post: #30

(11-28-2013 01:29 PM)Menace Wrote:  Do you know of a comparable broker in the US by chance?

I don't i'm afraid. Would you need to go through a US broker?
The payments I make are in Thai baht and I can do this from my bank, if this is not possible you can use transfer services such as Moneygram for international payments.

Post: #31

(11-28-2013 09:48 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 09:40 AM)2014 Wrote:  so knight knox is the best one you've gone with or was is heights holdings? or are they the same?? Thanks bro!

I just use Knightknox, i've been dealing with the same guy for a few years so he is my single point of contact for any queries I have and he keeps me informed for other interesting developments.
Heights holdings is developer based in Thailand, I could have tried going direct through them and haggling on price but I didn't, should I buy at another one of their developments in future I'll give that a go to compare.

(11-28-2013 01:17 PM)Brisey Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 11:50 AM)2014 Wrote:  thanks brisey

so the £16,500 quoted on the website means 100% ownership?

I can buy it, then rent it out for 10 months a year and holiday 2 months a year?

Essentially I have the funds to buy, I want to know about exit strategies (how easily can I sell it? and name my price?) as well as income streams (long-term rents and also holiday rentals), what do you do with regard to your properties you've acquired through them and what kind of ROI are you yielding per year?

Solid info so far bro, repped

No problem, regarding the % of ownership the following applies:
A foreigner is only able to own Condominiums as 100% freehold in their name. No other type of property can be owned this way. This is possible under the Condominium act which stipulates that a development with a Thai Condominium Licence may sell 49% of the saleable area of a given building to non-Thai nationals under a Freehold title, the remaining 51% of the given building may only be Leased for a term of 30 years or sold to Thai nationals as Freehold in the case that a foreigner has a Thai Limited company they could buy a condominium in Thailand in the company name as a Thai freehold title.

So you'd own 49% but this would not affect any rentals and you would still be able to sell it. Concerning rentals, the developers usually offer a management service where they handle the rental side of things, the figures I see offered are 10%+ yields, as you'd own the place you could stay there/rent out as you see fit.
If you buy off plan there is still the option to sell before the development is complete, often at a profit depending on how far advanced the construction is. Once completed you can expect a 30-40%+ uplift if you got in at the beginning.

Only 1 of the 4 I own is complete, rental yields are good and improving every quarter due to the reviews it's getting. I am still considering selling after the peak season (I bought for 40K GBP and it should go for around 68K). If you have the funds now, you would not need the entire amount, perhaps only 10-20% to begin with and pay the rest as it's being built. For example for the Laguna Beach resort I have the following payment plan:
Deposit - 23009 THB
Contract signature - 136790 THB
November 11 - 136790 THB
November 12 - 136790 THB
November 13 - 136790 THB
Completion - 63920 THB

Payment terms are flexible, if you are really interested PM me for my the details of my contact at Knightknox and he'll be able to sort you something out or give more info on the legal/ownership side of things.
Bit of a long winded post there but I hope it helps.

Thanks for the rep.

Thanks once again for your reply. One thing I'm still confused about.. I'm buying a condo, I own 100% of it right? The entire condominium complex is owned by a variety of owners but no more than 49% of those owners can be non-thai, correct?

So, for the sake of simplicity, if I invest in a condominium that has a proposed 100 separate units for sale, they can only sell 49 of those units to foreigners and then the other 51 must be owned by Thai's or rented out. So in the case that I bought one individual condo unit, I can own 100% of that unit, just not more than 49% of an entire complex. Correct?

Post: #32

(11-29-2013 05:54 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:29 PM)Menace Wrote:  Do you know of a comparable broker in the US by chance?

I don't i'm afraid. Would you need to go through a US broker?
The payments I make are in Thai baht and I can do this from my bank, if this is not possible you can use transfer services such as Moneygram for international payments.

Well, I'm in the US, and if I was to deal with a broker company like you're doing, wouldn't that be easier/better? Maybe it makes no difference.

Post: #33

Are there similar companies in the Phils that anyone is aware of?

Post: #34

(11-30-2013 02:35 PM)Menace Wrote:  

(11-29-2013 05:54 AM)Brisey Wrote:  

(11-28-2013 01:29 PM)Menace Wrote:  Do you know of a comparable broker in the US by chance?

I don't i'm afraid. Would you need to go through a US broker?
The payments I make are in Thai baht and I can do this from my bank, if this is not possible you can use transfer services such as Moneygram for international payments.

Well, I'm in the US, and if I was to deal with a broker company like you're doing, wouldn't that be easier/better? Maybe it makes no difference.

I don't think it makes a difference but i'll check, I've got some friends in Singapore who used the same company.

@ Fisto, I've seen a few higher end developments on this site and a couple more reasonably priced on Knightknox also

Post: #35

Investing In Real Estate:

This is the one business everyone has an opinion, but no one really understands how to do it...w/o getting into specifics if anyone wants any advice on how to break into this business on the multi-family/commercial real estate side, please PM me.

The number one attribute to sustain a real estate firm and have long-term success besides in bull markets where even an monkey can make a dollar is to have a boots on the ground mentality...its basically a intelligence business, you bird dog the good deals through your networks and let the masses go after the publicly marketed listings...if you dont have expertise in your local market, i suggest investing in a REIT where you won't bury yourself if you make a mistake.

10,000 ft view: Master your local market - rents, $/Ft, Cap Rates, exit prices, who are the brokers holding inventory...and use other peoples money (you need to prove that you know what you are talking about for people to hand over their hard earned cash).

God speed gentleman.

Post: #36

(12-10-2013 02:36 PM)mr greenleaf Wrote:  Investing In Real Estate:

This is the one business everyone has an opinion, but no one really understands how to do it...w/o getting into specifics if anyone wants any advice on how to break into this business on the multi-family/commercial real estate side, please PM me.

The number one attribute to sustain a real estate firm and have long-term success besides in bull markets where even an monkey can make a dollar is to have a boots on the ground mentality...its basically a intelligence business, you bird dog the good deals through your networks and let the masses go after the publicly marketed listings...if you dont have expertise in your local market, i suggest investing in a REIT where you won't bury yourself if you make a mistake.

10,000 ft view: Master your local market - rents, $/Ft, Cap Rates, exit prices, who are the brokers holding inventory...and use other peoples money (you need to prove that you know what you are talking about for people to hand over their hard earned cash).

God speed gentleman.

What are your specialty areas (I mean geographically and kind of units that you have purchased or been involved with some sort of investment) and some of your experiences?

Do you own properties in various locations, and if so what kinds of properties, where and for how long? How about in SEA locations?

If you said this in another post, then I have NOT seen that... Do you flip your investments or invest more for long term and/or on a more personalized level? I realize that what you do and what other guys may want to do may NOT be exactly the same.. but just wondering about your background in this subject.

Post: #37

What about monthly association or condo fees? I don't see that information listed.

Running the numbers this seems like a solid investment.

assuming a 30k USD (21,800 euro) property.

30% down = 9k
3 x 10% quartlery payments = 3 payments of 3000.
40% on completion = 12k.

30k for a condo in a brand new development in SEA? I'll take three. Especially if they developers handle the rentals for me.

Post: #38

(12-10-2013 10:01 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  What about monthly association or condo fees? I don't see that information listed.

Running the numbers this seems like a solid investment.

assuming a 30k USD (21,800 euro) property.

30% down = 9k
3 x 10% quartlery payments = 3 payments of 3000.
40% on completion = 12k.

30k for a condo in a brand new development in SEA? I'll take three. Especially if they developers handle the rentals for me.

Anti-trace...

I think in your post, you are referring to the Thailand properties that were described above, no?... and I would think that these numbers would vary, if we were talking about another SEA location....

I'm certainly interested in how those numbers may vary from location to location..... and at this point, I do NOT have much if any personal experience in SEA - even though I have been making plans to travel to various SEA location... so this thread is of interest to me... and hearing about various personal experiences of RVF'ers......

However, I would surmise, as Greenleaf mentioned, we probably need to get a certain level of comfort in any of the locations that we may chose to invest.... b/c some of the local circumstances may cause for various hidden costs - or at least some costs that are NOT so apparent.

Post: #39

(12-10-2013 10:01 PM)AntiTrace Wrote:  What about monthly association or condo fees? I don't see that information listed.

Running the numbers this seems like a solid investment.

assuming a 30k USD (21,800 euro) property.

30% down = 9k
3 x 10% quartlery payments = 3 payments of 3000.
40% on completion = 12k.

30k for a condo in a brand new development in SEA? I'll take three. Especially if they developers handle the rentals for me.

The maintenance fees & taxes are a very important piece of the puzzle, and I'm wondering how much they might vary from year to year. In the US, for example, increasing property and state income taxes can really start impacting your rental income stream. And the management companies basically can rob you blind. So a 10% rental income, even if in Thai Baht (assuming it is) seems pretty nice when I compare it to what I've seen in other countries.

Also, wondering how feasible it really is to rent an apartment throughout the year down there. Is there an off-season where nobody's coming or it's raining and rents are much lower? If I wanted to spend say a couple months a year in say Jan-Feb. would that be a good time to be there?

@ Brisey - Thanks for all your insights on this thread. Really has made me really consider spending some time in SEA and exploring and possibly buying some property. YMG's also made a lot of interesting points in other threads about how central Bangkok/Thailand really is in Asia. Seems like you can just live dirt cheap down there and have a great quality of life, good medical care, loads of women etc. if you do it right. Plus airfare is so cheap to other places in Asia that it makes the perfect travel jumping off point. 5 years of cold weather in Russia make a nice warm winter spot pretty attractive to me at this point, and there are supposedly a ton of Russians down there already + the Scandanavian tourists.

Post: #40

Gents, to add a bit more to the charges, I skimmed through my contracts and found the following:

Sinking fund charge - this is the reserve paid for the maintenance and management of the common property. Paid once and calculated per square metre of your apartment size. As an example, for 2 of the studios I have, one charge is 350 per sqm and the other is 400.

Common management fee - this is paid annually and also calculated per sqm of apartment size, again examples in my contracts are 30 and 35 per sqm.

So overall building management fees are relatively low (depending on apartment size). From the one I am currently renting out, I had to enter a leasing agreement with the developer where they take a % of the income and handle everything else. The % will vary on the development.
The rental yields vary depending on the season, high season the room rates are higher, low season the rates are lower.

Hope that helps

Post: #41

(12-11-2013 06:10 AM)Brisey Wrote:  Gents, to add a bit more to the charges, I skimmed through my contracts and found the following:

Sinking fund charge - this is the reserve paid for the maintenance and management of the common property. Paid once and calculated per square metre of your apartment size. As an example, for 2 of the studios I have, one charge is 350 per sqm and the other is 400.

Common management fee - this is paid annually and also calculated per sqm of apartment size, again examples in my contracts are 30 and 35 per sqm.

So overall building management fees are relatively low (depending on apartment size). From the one I am currently renting out, I had to enter a leasing agreement with the developer where they take a % of the income and handle everything else. The % will vary on the development.
The rental yields vary depending on the season, high season the room rates are higher, low season the rates are lower.

Hope that helps

http://www.knightknox.com/property/listi...00OhWyiMAF

assuming those fees and this property (rounded tyo 25k usd to make things easier)

30% fee within 28 days of signing = 7.5k
3 x 10% quarterly = 2.5k x 3 quarters = 7.5k <---assuming they mean "quarterly" as in every 3 months that gives us $834 a month.
40% on completion = 10k

In other terms with 30% down and the remaining 17.5k over three quarters = a hair under 2k a month.

Now to tack the fees on (the fees will vary, but im trying to get a ballpark #)

30 sqm = 350 x 30 = 10500 sinking fund fee.
Add the 25k purchase price = 35500 final out of pocket expense (possible closing costs/contract fees/etc)

with a monthly cost of: 30 sqm x $30 = 900 annual /12 months = $75 a month management (condo) fee. Then they get 10% of rental income on top of that.

To see a 10% cap rate, we would have 35500 x .10 = 3550 in rental income after expenses.

Expnses = 75$ a month and 10% of rental income
Rent needs to be 3950 (to account for 10% loss) + 900 (for condo fee) = 4850 annually = $404 monthly = about 13k baht.

Assuming everything else remains constant or damn near constant, the question is can the location justify 13k baht(404 usd)/monthly or an average of the same if varying rents based on seasons.

regardless, your overhead is only $75 a month if it stays vacant.

And I'm also not accounting for any appreciation in value of the condo.

edit - I sent an enquiry to them. hopefully I'll hear back soon and can talk a sales agent to get more info.

Post: #42

@ Antitrace, sorry, I didn't mention the currency in my fees, my numbers were for Thai Baht not USD so your 25K initial costs won't change much. For appreciation, i'd say you are looking at 30-40%, maybe even more because it's in a relatively undeveloped area compared to Jomitien/Pattaya

You could also try going straight to the developers where you might get a better deal. I think your link is for this one

Post: #43

If memory serves you can buy land in cambodia as an expat if not $50,000 will buy you citizenship and land and houses down there are cheap as chips. In the Philipines you cant own land. you can buy a condo in a building that is a certain percent owned by local nationals we'll go with 51% but the number escapes me. Also you can own a house as a structure just not the land. that said a good lawyer can write out a trust and lease the land to you for up to 99 years so you can live out your days there. If you want to run the risk you can marry a Philipino girl and she can buy the house but sometimes they'll divorce you or kick you out and move thier families in there. personally I would go with option 1 or 2. I believe the philipino standard is the norm through out most of SEA.

Post: #44

(12-10-2013 09:41 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(12-10-2013 02:36 PM)mr greenleaf Wrote:  Investing In Real Estate:

This is the one business everyone has an opinion, but no one really understands how to do it...w/o getting into specifics if anyone wants any advice on how to break into this business on the multi-family/commercial real estate side, please PM me.

The number one attribute to sustain a real estate firm and have long-term success besides in bull markets where even an monkey can make a dollar is to have a boots on the ground mentality...its basically a intelligence business, you bird dog the good deals through your networks and let the masses go after the publicly marketed listings...if you dont have expertise in your local market, i suggest investing in a REIT where you won't bury yourself if you make a mistake.

10,000 ft view: Master your local market - rents, $/Ft, Cap Rates, exit prices, who are the brokers holding inventory...and use other peoples money (you need to prove that you know what you are talking about for people to hand over their hard earned cash).

God speed gentleman.

What are your specialty areas (I mean geographically and kind of units that you have purchased or been involved with some sort of investment) and some of your experiences?

Do you own properties in various locations, and if so what kinds of properties, where and for how long? How about in SEA locations?

If you said this in another post, then I have NOT seen that... Do you flip your investments or invest more for long term and/or on a more personalized level? I realize that what you do and what other guys may want to do may NOT be exactly the same.. but just wondering about your background in this subject.

multifamily, mixed-use (retail below apartments), and some office. Own properties in the US in one major city...we typically have a hold period of 3-5 years, but lately they have been shorter due to the run up in prices in my sub-market.

I used to be a RE commercial real estate broker, before starting my own company...so I cut my teeth selling the buildings to former clients that I am now buying...I raise equity/capital from private and institutional investors and the market has been quite frothy since 2008 when we started...we have about 20 different properties now.