Post: #76

I remember the rally in gold prices. That is something I would have gotten in early enough - to make so serious money.

And the same with the banks collapsing in 2008. If you invested in the ones that didn't go bust - you would have returns today which would be multiples of your original investment.

In these volatile situations - the stock either goes to the floor - or rebounds back to the roof. So you kinda' have a 50/50 chance either way of being right. No real smarts are involved.

It is the same with any 'bubble'. Will it burst - or will it inflate a bit further? Usually when you are asking those questions - there is a 50/50 chance it could go either way.

I remember when oil was at $147 a barrel. I was convinced it was a giant bubble. Partly because I had recently read a business biography which was published ten years earlier. And in there - a famous trader was worried about the 'bubble' in oil prices back when it was just 25 dollars a barrell. So that alone convinced me that not enough had happened in ten years for $147 a barrel to be a sensible price.

And sure enough - within a few months - it had collapsed to about $35 a barrel.

I am just using these anecdotes to point out that volatile shit happens every 2-3 years. And if you have 'fun' money to hand - you can keep calm whilst others are panicking. And that alone will give you a big edge.

Like I say - I am not trying to look smart. Since obviously I am pretty thick since I didn't actually invest any money (since at the moment I haven't organised my finances enough to have 'play' money). And also - these are mostly 50/50 type scenarios. Where luck alone can help you be on the right side of the bet alot of the time.

Post: #77

I just did some calculating

If Ali listened to me he'd have 26,750 to cash out today.

Two more thoughts..

The US gov has the BTC they stole from Silk Road.

If the US gov tries to rain on the parade then the crash will enable the Chinese to buy up all the Bitcoins cheap which I'm sure they don't want to happen.

The USA is invested in BTC whether they like it or not and it just happened.

Post: #78

(11-13-2013 02:04 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I just did some calculating

If Ali listened to me he'd have 26,750 to cash out today.

We should get some of the great financial minds together to start an investment thread kinda
like this one where we all buy into something like bitcoins short term. Upon a successful run we
should do a follow-up meet-up/party to celebrate.

Post: #79

The biggest risk coming from the govt is if the freeze all websites that hold them and stop all businesses that accepting them. Never underestimate the ability of the US government when it comes to money laundering or tax evasion. If they perceive or even decide that it might be used as a way to fund terrorism or for tax evasion they will shut it down. The tax evasion part probably won't occur until it has more value, but the risk is still there if you get a few politicians in the mix.

I saw that the winklevoss twins were pumping their Bitcoin position today. Once the hedge funds get into it and start manipulating the market watch out.

Treat it like a stock and be ready to sell anytime and it's worth it short term, but long term it's got too many headwinds. Make a quick buck and then get out.

Post: #80

Buying these things seems to be unnecessarily complicated.....

Can someone break this down better?

That Virox website only allows me to deposit 78 USD at a time, and then I'm forced to get their exchange rate for a bitcoin after paying fees.

Post: #81

(11-13-2013 05:58 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Buying these things seems to be unnecessarily complicated.....

Can someone break this down better?

That Virox website only allows me to deposit 78 USD at a time, and then I'm forced to get their exchange rate for a bitcoin after paying fees.

Of course it's unnecessarily complicated, there is actually incentive for existing major financial institutions to make it as difficult as possible. As I said, the people trying to make it easier have the government or banks come down on them like a ton of bricks (do some reading on Bitcoin and Dwolla). Shit like this is why Bitcoin is the future.

Cost to transfer $6.5 million internationally?
Bank Wire: Over $500 000
Paypal: Over $200 000
Bitcoin: 6 cents

How you going to handle a competitor with an overhead that low? Boycott people getting some in the first place. Once enough people are in, you're done.

EDIT: The silver lining is that this exact situation is doing something towards keeping prices from skyrocketing. The second someone sets up something that any Tom, Dick and Harry can buy Bitcoin with and not get shut down by legislation or financial interference, Bitcoin prices are going to the moon. This is starting to happen in some of the countries that aren't the USA, the window is rapidly closing for the current price range.

My tips:

1. The max limits and fees on Virwox are a pain, but this is actually the easiest way to get some, and if you're in for the long haul then the fees will be negligible. The limit increases quite a bit once you've had the account a few days. Also, there's no reason you can't open 5 accounts, run a bit of money through each of them to make sure they're working, then sit back for a week and wait for their limits to increase.

2. On BTC-E, you can buy with a bunch of online payment options, including Visa/Mastercard via Payeer (who themselves work via Liqpay). After you have an account, click "Finance", then next to USD click "Deposit", then scroll down to the bottom and click "Payeer". There are almost as many fees doing it this way as using Virwox.

WARNING: If trying to buy in from overseas, get the confirmation SMS sent to a friend currently residing in the country where your credit card is registered, and have them relay it to you. If you use a phone number from a different country to your credit card you get an error message saying that they don't match, and the online service guys are super unhelpful about setting to a different phone number. Get it right the first time.

WARNING 2: Some people have had experience with being scammed by the Russian guys that run Liqpay, Google it. Caveat emptor.

3. I buy in via a Chinese friend that has his stuff already set up. If you have any friends that are Chinese (as in, Chinese passport, not your local American Born Chinese community), it's possible to buy on Btc-China using coupons purchased on Taobao, and you can transfer direct from Chinese banks into Taobao.

For everyone else, fantastic introduction to and discussion of Bitcoin.

Improve yourself, improve the world.
Datasheets: Chinese Dating. Bitcoin and trading on BTC-E.

Post: #82

Great, I'm now the proud owner of .16 BTC until Virox let's me deposit more money.

Post: #83

(11-13-2013 09:16 PM)Fisto Wrote:  Great, I'm now the proud owner of .16 BTC until Virox let's me deposit more money.

I know this doesn't apply to you, Fisto, but UK residents can use this workaround: Buy BTC with Ripple and GBP

You can fund a Ripple wallet from a UK bank account, then use the Ripples to buy BTC (or other currencies). Haven't done it myself (yet), but it shows that more purchase avenues are opening up.

For a while one company was allowing purchases via Google Wallet, but Google stopped that.

I should point out that the author of the above link is the owner of the service used to make the GBP>Ripple transaction, but his fees seem pretty reasonable. And you can try it out with just £1.

Post: #84

Good video links

Bitcoin's S-curve adoption (compares bitcoin's users/market cap to Facebook, Twitter networks)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

Bitcoin's problems with regulation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tR4e8zwnR6w

Stephan Molyneux on Bitcoins, good overall view
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4HGVJjqDVk

Erik Voorhees interviews
- GoldMoney: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RieslECUBpA
- Tom Woods: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi2WgeJ73IE

Also cool, Amir Taaki on all sorts of possibilities of bitcoin on the darkweb
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sl2GDcNL6ak

Post: #85

I get it enough to explain it to my dad.

I live in Canada, I cant access the btc-e site.

Can someone please explain how to buy and sell it. Can I use credit card or paypal.

Post: #86

(11-14-2013 07:31 PM)stranger Wrote:  I get it enough to explain it to my dad.

I live in Canada, I cant access the btc-e site.

Can someone please explain how to buy and sell it. Can I use credit card or paypal.

It was described a few posts back.......

Post: #87

Winklevoss Twins: Bitcoin Worth at Least 100 Times its Current Price
http://m.entrepreneur.com/article/229900

Post: #88

(11-14-2013 09:26 PM)Parlay44 Wrote:  Winklevoss Twins: Bitcoin Worth at Least 100 Times its Current Price
http://m.entrepreneur.com/article/229900

Fontas style pump with these clowns. We have some so yeah hype it up then dump and buy back.

Post: #89

I have the feeling that people are going to start hoarding them rather than spending them on day to day expenses.

If they keep increasing in value, then you are losing money by spending them.

Post: #90

(11-14-2013 10:40 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I have the feeling that people are going to start hoarding them rather than spending them on day to day expenses.

If they keep increasing in value, then you are losing money by spending them.

I would NOT predict across the board hoarding b/c the value seems to be fluctuating so much and there seems to be a real lot of volatility and uncertainty at this time, and there is going to be a certain segment of people playing that fluctuation angle to trade them to attempt to buy low and to sell high.

Yet, the complications in making transactions with bitcoins, may also cause some hoarding. However, some guys are going to get worried about long-term stability and maybe cash out based on those long-term stability concerns.

You may be right though Fisto, there may be some advantage to long term hoarding especially, if a guy really believes the value will continue to increase.

Post: #91

(11-14-2013 10:40 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I have the feeling that people are going to start hoarding them rather than spending them on day to day expenses.

If they keep increasing in value, then you are losing money by spending them.

Isn't this actually a problem for bitcoin? At what point does bitcoin lose utility as a currency and become a fiat commodity/pyramid scheme?

Post: #92

(11-16-2013 01:31 AM)El_Superbeasto Wrote:  

(11-14-2013 10:40 PM)Fisto Wrote:  I have the feeling that people are going to start hoarding them rather than spending them on day to day expenses.

If they keep increasing in value, then you are losing money by spending them.

Isn't this actually a problem for bitcoin? At what point does bitcoin lose utility as a currency and become a fiat commodity/pyramid scheme?

No, Bitcoin is not a bubble/Ponzi/pyramid. Those who say so are clueless. I started this thread, b/c RVF's have a lot to gain from wising up on cryptocurrencies. And I don't mean just speculating.

However, I do want to explain why your thoughts are not totally misplaced, but should be placed in a certain perspective.

Sharks

Guys who want to make a quick bug, thus buy BTC to sell with profit (Nothing wrong w/ this, just don't be a sucker.) They create 'bubbly' phases -- but do not confuse this with bitcoin critics calling all of bitcoin a bubble.

If you buy bitcoin and the price crashes DON'T SELL, the price will go back up again. But it's best to wait out the current rally if you want to buy wholesale (but that's stating the obvious..) For a few bitcoin, you can buy anytime.

Bitcoin is an exponentially growing network

Volatility of a thusfar fairly small, but extremely fast growing & learning network. Bitcoin's growth is exponential, because it's a network. Just like Twitter or Facebook, it takes some time before the network keeps doubling to a 100k or 1 million or so, but THEN it will grow unusually fast IN ABSOLUTE NUMBERS. That's what we're seeing today, in its early stages. For a good video on this, watch this one by "world bitcoin network" on the S-curve of bitcoin adoption. I highly recommend this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHUPPYzzZrI

The bitcoin protocol will prove as important and liberating to finance as the internet was for communication & file-sharing.

Post: #93

That YouTube channel is really good.

He mention some of my first worries regarding bitcoin as a substitute to fiat currencies.

- A deflationary economy can be very bad. If everything is getting cheaper, people will stop spending their money.
- Bad for the poor.

ATH of 480 USD by the way

Post: #94

Within the month I'm going to start accepting Bitcoin as a payment for my startup, either incorporating in the main portion or via a gimmicky spinoff.

Post: #95

(11-16-2013 11:36 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Within the month I'm going to start accepting Bitcoin as a payment for my startup, either incorporating in the main portion or via a gimmicky spinoff.

I would bluff accepting it as a startup until it stabilizes a bit. One crash could cut you in half or more.

Real talk

Post: #96

(11-16-2013 11:40 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  

(11-16-2013 11:36 PM)Emancipator Wrote:  Within the month I'm going to start accepting Bitcoin as a payment for my startup, either incorporating in the main portion or via a gimmicky spinoff.

I would bluff accepting it as a startup until it stabilizes a bit. One crash could cut you in half or more.

Real talk

I'm at 300-500% margin, and I don't see BTC having many super crashes in the next few months.

Post: #97

If you're interested, on Tuesday there is a US Senate hearing on virtual currency. A bankster crony by the name of Summers will be present to discuss his idea to de-anonymize the bitcoin network. This shows how worried the overlords are about crypto currency.
Currently, Litecoin (LTC) trades for about $4. It's similar to BTC and I believe a much better buy than BTC. Also, Primecoin (XPM) trades for about $0.7. I believe XPM is structurally superior to BTC. I think both of these alternatives are certain to rise in value the way BTC has done.

Post: #98

Quick question, any problems in using Mt.Gox to buy/sell from the UK?
I'm already looking to switch as they denied my first attempt at verification after taking like 10 days instead of 2..
What do most people on here use?

Post: #99

(11-17-2013 05:20 PM)bret Wrote:  Quick question, any problems in using Mt.Gox to buy/sell from the UK?
I'm already looking to switch as they denied my first attempt at verification after taking like 10 days instead of 2..
What do most people on here use?

Crypto-trade.com doesn't verify anything. They don't even ask for your name. Takes 30 seconds to start trading.

Post: #100

Which exchange offers the fastest way to withdraw fiat?