Post: #76

Side note. She's 21 and divorced already. Her ex is a doctor and she's pissed she got the Benz and not the house.

The club she works in is topless only. I wonder if she sucks or fucks in the club.

Post: #77

(11-04-2013 03:44 PM)frenchie Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 01:46 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 12:46 PM)frenchie Wrote:  At our level, p4p is in the same vein as internet pron. A delusion that tricks the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on.

What about a one night stand with a random bar skank? Isn't that also just tricking the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on?

What is the real difference between the bar pickup versus internet porn or a hooker? Validation.

You can look at validation in two components. Self validation and peer validation.

A guy like Bieber needs no extra validation of any kind when it comes to being successful with women. Let's be real - the guy has to employ bodyguards 24/7 to fend off strange women trying to throw no strings attached pussy at him.

An important difference with getting a hooker is that peer validation is zero, while there would be some kind of peer validation for scoring a bar hookup.

Obviously self validation and peer validation for porn is zero to slightly negative.

Self validation for a hooker is highly variable depending on your own attitude to hookers and how well the experience went.

Hookers are women with feelings and game principles still apply. There are guys who would say that if you make a hooker laugh it wasn't genuine and if you make a hooker come hard it was faked. IMO those guys are still holding on to blue pill beliefs and are denying the true nature of women.

How the heck does a prostitute require game? It's called P4P for a reason.

The point is, game requires skill to pull off. A prostitute requires nothing more than bankroll. Ironically, I'd say it is easier to make money than it is to pick girls up. The latter being a clear indication of your value in the eyes of her and the rest of the lady's opinions.

At Bieber's level, I'll agree. It is probably easier and safer in the long run than to avoid a PR nightmare. But he's in a different world where the rules do not apply to him. To me, P4P is quitting and a sign that one does not have the ability to pull women without money.

Some escorts enjoy having sex more with certain men than others. Some escorts catch feelings. Especially if you have game.

I've witnessed it.

Post: #78

I know in intimate detail how a fashion designer used to get women.

It will blow your minds. I'll write it up fully sometime.

Even though he could game models all he wanted to (he was a huge name and everyone here would know his brand), here's what he would do:

He's (well his staff) would answer ads for au pairs.

Fly them out. Put them up in a nice hotel. Have someone take them shopping.

THe girl would come meet him.

If she was down for an arrangement, she was one of his sugar babies. He'd get her a place, give her an allowance, see her a couple of times a week and otherwise let her do her thing.

Was that beta?

Again, this is a man would has slept with runway models and could sleep with runway models, aspiring young girls in fashion, etc. Pick of the litter.

Yet he choose to fly over au pairs and take them on as sugar babies.

Maybe there's a reason for that...

How many more child support threads do we gotta read...

And false rape threads...

Sex is not free and it's not without risks.

How we balance those costs and risks is up to each of us to decide.

But to think that men who use hookers or sugar babes are dregs who can't do any better...It's not nearly that simple.

Because the big money is doing p4p.

The big celebs are, too.

There is no right or wrong answer, just a different approach to the same problem of how we are going to experience pleasure in a life that is fraught with perils, boredom, and pain.

Post: #79

(11-04-2013 03:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  Because the big money is doing p4p.

The big celebs are, too.

There is no right or wrong answer, just a different approach to the same problem of how we are going to experience pleasure in a life that is fraught with perils, boredom, and pain.

Just to expand on this, I remember a while back Athlone or someone posted up a youtube video of a radio show featuring the pornstar Jayden James, plus another female pornstar, and the male pornstar Voodoo.

Anyhow her and the other chick were talking about how they had done a 3some with a really well known NBA player, and how he was some black dude with a huge shlong. It was implied that they were working as "escorts" and not doing it just for fun. You got to imagine that in a place like LA these porn chicks fuck a lot of actors and pro athletes.

I'm sure most of those dudes can get laid like crazy no problem, but even for them it must be nice to have a few pornstars that will come over on call to have group sex and basically be down to do anything you want sexually.

The male pornstar Voodoo was claiming he was banging Lindsey Lohan, and it was kind of ambiguous whether he was getting paid or not.

Post: #80

It's funny guys are holding up celebrities as if they're role models.

Well if Justin Bieber's doing it, it must be cool.

Maybe, but it's not for me.

Celebrities also have tons of fake friends who are there only to mooch off their money.

Does that mean I want to start bribing people to be my fake friends?

Maybe I'm a busy man who travels a lot. I can justify to myself shelling out the cash to buy my own entourage.

It might be that some guys need sexual variety so bad that p4p makes sense for them.

That's cool, but I don't relate. If you're willing to settle for prostitutes then I imagine when virtual reality and sex bots arrive, you'll settle for that too.

Post: #81

The other thing I always thought was funny:

Guys on here bragging about "shoring" tons of hookers in certain countries.

Then looking down with disgust at the guys paying for tons of hookers.

Boil it down to the essence:

You both banged the exact same girl.

----

If a guy pays $10 for a taxi to a bar and another guy walks to the bar, does the guy who walked there looking down on the guy who paid?

Sure, he got there for free, but in the end, they both ended up in the same place.

------

I still can't believe guys don't get this.

Here is another reason:

Fantasy fulfillment.

Let say you want to bang three six foot tall models all at the same time.

You got the Game to rustle that up at your local Olive Garden bar in Zanesville?

Well then, good for you.

If not, then that guys only chance to make that happen is to pay for it.

---------------

Another reason:

Not everyone is a sober mall daygaming PUA.

Some guys actually get drunk.

When then get drunk, they do things they wouldn't do when they are sober.

They might order up some Cocaine.

They might order up a hooker.

They might say yes to the hooker in the lobby bar of The Cosmo.

It doesn't mean they crossed some Rubicon of no return to a life of cocaine and hookers.

Post: #82

(11-04-2013 04:19 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  It's funny guys are holding up celebrities as if they're role models.

Who has said to do p4p because it's cool like the celebs.

It's like you are making an argument that no one else made, in order to refute it. Straw man.

We are saying that celebs have way more game than we do. They can go out and use their status to bang "regular" women. No problem. It's so easy for them.

So if people at the top of the game food chain are using p4p, then maybe there is something to it.

Post: #83

The dirty little secret of The RVF Forum..

The Elephant in the room..

This is a p4p forum!

Most senior members openly endorse it.

Shoring? Guys brag about it.

The Dominican Republic? A few years ago it was taboo to even mention the D.R here because it was assumed that most sex was transactional.

SEA, Brazil, Central/South America, Africa? We all know that much of the fast sex with tourists in these places is "soft" prostitution.

A lot of the "flags" and "swoops" that guys write about here are the result of shoring and soft prostitution.

I have nothing against it.

Post: #84

One of my Brazilian friends in Rio is a dude who owns a small business, is successful, and has a girlfriend he's living with. He's got a friend who recently got married, and for the bachelor party they hired about 10 garotas da programa and a had party with the specific intention of having an orgy. He showed me the photos and video clips...it was insane. Like something out of a movie. I always joke and tell him he should start a website called "Apartamento de Paulo" [his name] and start a porno business with him taping himself banging chicks.

And these were normal, good-looking guys, not lame dudes with no social skills. Rio culture accepts it, and it's no big deal. Just like in certain situations in the deployed military, it's permitted. But it shouldn't become a habit or a crutch. Like anything.

Maybe this is an extreme example, but the point is that sexual mores are going to vary. Some people like different things. I agree with Mike CF, G Manifesto, and Hencredible Casanova.

Like I said earlier, I've done P4P in certain situations in the past. I think it's just a part of a guys sexual education. You can check that box and say, OK, I've done that.
But there's nothing wrong with not wanting to do it, either. Some guys just are turned off by it.

Post: #85

(11-04-2013 04:20 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  The other thing I always thought was funny:

Guys on here bragging about "shoring" tons of hookers in certain countries.

Then looking down with disgust at the guys paying for tons of hookers.

Boil it down to the essence:

You both banged the exact same girl.

----

Thank you, I've been saying this on here for days, that shit always left me scratching my head and the logic just seemed completely off. I think it all boils down to ego, the guy who buys the chick a slice of pizza, a few rounds of drinks, and "cab fare" gets to count the chick as a "notch" or a conquest, whereas the guy who just straight up gives the chick $40 from the onset is a "pathetic John" who can't get laid to save his life.

This is probably especially true in poor countries like Thailand or Cambodia, or hell even Colombia or D.R. I have read reports where guys were even proud to have shored without spending any cash, or were assholes to the girl when she wanted some meager amount of money. Not to act like this is an issue of charity, but in some of these countries if they are that damn poor, I think it's almost kind of a dick move to try to hustle a chick out a few dollars, especially when we make more money in a month than they do in a year.

Also like G-man states, it should be obvious... Whether you pay or not, she's still a whore, she still sucks and fucks for money, no diss on Skywalker but I thought it was hilarious in one of his stories that he was so proud to bang a chick for free in Cambodia, knowing that some German guy had just paid for the same pussy the previous night. They still fucked the same chick, only difference is the German guy probably gave her like $15, either way their dicks were in the same hole.

Post: #86

Again I must pose the question: if you bang a hooker and give her fake money, have you really done p4p?

Along these lines: if you rent a Lamborghini and drive by the beach, pick up a girl in it and bang her that afternoon, did you just bang a whore (like the vitaly video).

If I suck at game and then try using the info on this board and it gets me laid, wasn't I just trading my game to the girl for a bang?

Does it really matter what you are trading with the girl?

I think it's irrelevant, and what matters is that you have power. You have the power to get what you want in life. That's having game. It's the ability to get what you want. If I am handsome or rich or famous and I get girls because of that, does it mean that I have no game? Does it make them whores?

What if I'm super famous actor like high Hugh jackman, I can get almost any girl in the world.. But I decide not to. Does that mean I have no game? Does it mean that Tyler durden has better game than me?

Post: #87

(11-04-2013 05:54 PM)soup Wrote:  Again I must pose the question: if you bang a hooker and give her fake money, have you really done p4p?

Along these lines: if you rent a Lamborghini and drive by the beach, pick up a girl in it and bang her that afternoon, did you just bang a whore (like the vitaly video).

If I suck at game and then try using the info on this board and it gets me laid, wasn't I just trading my game to the girl for a bang?

Does it really matter what you are trading with the girl?

I think it's irrelevant, and what matters is that you have power. You have the power to get what you want in life. That's having game. It's the ability to get what you want. If I am handsome or rich or famous and I get girls because of that, does it mean that I have no game? Does it make them whores?

What if I'm super famous actor like high Hugh jackman, I can get almost any girl in the world.. But I decide not to. Does that mean I have no game? Does it mean that Tyler durden has better game than me?

Let's flip it around then.

If Hugh Jackman can bang any broad and chooses not to, let's agree that he has game anyway. He has fame, money, and good looks. He has a certain potential ability to fuck broads regardless of the reason.

But what if Mr. Beta man has a decent middle class income but has only had sex with one or two women in his life.

Normally this kind of guy we'd say is the epitome of having no game.

He doesn't even have the ability to approach a girl and have a normal conversation, let alone escalate.

But according do what we just agreed, he *does* have game just because he could parlay his decent income into getting prostitutes.

Like Hugh Jackman, he's simply choosing not to fuck these chicks, in this case for money.

Post: #88

How many guys here promote shoring? I can name only 3:

Naughty Nomad
Skywalker
Lumiere

Who am I missing? Will this list get up to 10?

Post: #89

(11-04-2013 06:27 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:54 PM)soup Wrote:  Again I must pose the question: if you bang a hooker and give her fake money, have you really done p4p?

Along these lines: if you rent a Lamborghini and drive by the beach, pick up a girl in it and bang her that afternoon, did you just bang a whore (like the vitaly video).

If I suck at game and then try using the info on this board and it gets me laid, wasn't I just trading my game to the girl for a bang?

Does it really matter what you are trading with the girl?

I think it's irrelevant, and what matters is that you have power. You have the power to get what you want in life. That's having game. It's the ability to get what you want. If I am handsome or rich or famous and I get girls because of that, does it mean that I have no game? Does it make them whores?

What if I'm super famous actor like high Hugh jackman, I can get almost any girl in the world.. But I decide not to. Does that mean I have no game? Does it mean that Tyler durden has better game than me?

Let's flip it around then.

If Hugh Jackman can bang any broad and chooses not to, let's agree that he has game anyway. He has fame, money, and good looks. He has a certain potential ability to fuck broads regardless of the reason.

But what if Mr. Beta man has a decent middle class income but has only had sex with one or two women in his life.

Normally this kind of guy we'd say is the epitome of having no game.

He doesn't even have the ability to approach a girl and have a normal conversation, let alone escalate.

But according do what we just agreed, he *does* have game just because he could parlay his decent income into getting prostitutes.

Like Hugh Jackman, he's simply choosing not to fuck these chicks, in this case for money.

No he does not.

He has locked into self into a situation with no outs, tell tale sign of bad game. He goes to prostitutes not because he's in a position of abundance- well he has some if he can pay for them.. but he's barely scraping by in his game.

Maybe that's what he's always wanted: a wife and whores on the side. This is probably the case with a lot of guys who have madonna/whore complex.

Here's another question- if I dress like a skinny rockstar and do well in hipster bars in brooklyn, and I fail miserably in guido/jersey shore clubs where everyone looks like they are on steroids, do I have bad game?

Answer: yes.

Someone with good game knows how to choose their battles.

But, keep in mind that Justin Bieber would slay it where ever he goes because of his fame. He'd beat out me, the guy with the wife, the guido muscle head.. every time with no fight.

That's the difference between coming from a place of abundance/options and having a rigid one-note game that only works in very particular situations.

That's why I think it's better to be famous. Truth is, a lot of those whores he fucked at that brothel would have probably paid him to fuck them and tried to get pregnant or something.

That can't be said for the beta guy who is married.

---

Here's another question: if your buddy buys you a whore for your birthday, and you fuck her, are you doing p4p? Technically you haven't paid for anything.

Post: #90

(11-04-2013 06:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  How many guys here promote shoring? I can name only 3:

Naughty Nomad
Skywalker
Lumiere

Who am I missing? Will this list get up to 10?

Sorry, I'm a little confused about what the definition of shoring is.

Does it mean fucking a prostitute without paying her?

Post: #91

I've been watching guys p4p since '95. Dudes would have a thirsty simp meltdown and hit Adlelita's in Tijuana. The rest of us were on Revolucion doing it the old fashion way. After awhile you start to correlate certain life/work habits with those that pay and those that don't.

Couple years later I'm noticing behavior from expats in Tokyo, BKK, Pattya, ect. Not strictly just p4p, but living in a poosy paradise. Keep moving on the timeline and I see guys making beelines for hookers in Dubai, Angeles City, and BKK. These cats look like shit. Overweight, bad work habits, slovenly, drinking all day. There is a constant there.

I don't stay sharp for pussy, I do out of respect for myself. Pussy is a byproduct.

As for the question of shoring, I done it in Dubai and couldn't stand it, but 6 months sans pussy makes Ali a very dull boy.

Post: #92

(11-04-2013 06:31 PM)Roosh Wrote:  How many guys here promote shoring? I can name only 3:

Naughty Nomad
Skywalker
Lumiere

Who am I missing? Will this list get up to 10?

Do a search for "shoring".

There are 5 full pages of threads that mention it.

If my memory serves me correct, I don't think I have seen an "anti-shoring" thread either.

Post: #93

This thread reminded me of this book: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Encyclopedia-Of-...0349115354
which claimed that brothels were just harems for poorer men

Post: #94

(11-04-2013 03:55 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  I know in intimate detail how a fashion designer used to get women.

We've got one. Big name, right up there with Armani and Versace. He hangs out at the hotel and brings over 19 yo Russian prostitutes, 3 at a time. They're smoking hot.

He's married with kids. If he fucked his models (and I'm sure he's fucked many) I can only imagine how much more of a headache it is to cover his tracks than simply calling up a madame.

Post: #95

At the end of the day to each his own. we are all trading something for it. Look at Tim sharky's last interview clip if those arent wise words i dont know what is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=88Wb0nAkDS0

Post: #96

So many good comments that it's hard to add to this discussion. It's definitely true that most non-feminist nations have very relaxed stances towards P4P. Many successful men do it and it has been so since ancient times. My personal opinion is that P4P is an experience that definitely has its uses but shouldn't be the main path for anyone under 50. (Disclaimer: I'm a young guy in my twenties, I have never done P4P but probably will when I'm old.)

Post: #97

(11-04-2013 06:38 PM)soup Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 06:27 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:54 PM)soup Wrote:  Again I must pose the question: if you bang a hooker and give her fake money, have you really done p4p?

Along these lines: if you rent a Lamborghini and drive by the beach, pick up a girl in it and bang her that afternoon, did you just bang a whore (like the vitaly video).

If I suck at game and then try using the info on this board and it gets me laid, wasn't I just trading my game to the girl for a bang?

Does it really matter what you are trading with the girl?

I think it's irrelevant, and what matters is that you have power. You have the power to get what you want in life. That's having game. It's the ability to get what you want. If I am handsome or rich or famous and I get girls because of that, does it mean that I have no game? Does it make them whores?

What if I'm super famous actor like high Hugh jackman, I can get almost any girl in the world.. But I decide not to. Does that mean I have no game? Does it mean that Tyler durden has better game than me?

Let's flip it around then.

If Hugh Jackman can bang any broad and chooses not to, let's agree that he has game anyway. He has fame, money, and good looks. He has a certain potential ability to fuck broads regardless of the reason.

But what if Mr. Beta man has a decent middle class income but has only had sex with one or two women in his life.

Normally this kind of guy we'd say is the epitome of having no game.

He doesn't even have the ability to approach a girl and have a normal conversation, let alone escalate.

But according do what we just agreed, he *does* have game just because he could parlay his decent income into getting prostitutes.

Like Hugh Jackman, he's simply choosing not to fuck these chicks, in this case for money.

No he does not.

He has locked into self into a situation with no outs, tell tale sign of bad game. He goes to prostitutes not because he's in a position of abundance- well he has some if he can pay for them.. but he's barely scraping by in his game.

Maybe that's what he's always wanted: a wife and whores on the side. This is probably the case with a lot of guys who have madonna/whore complex.

Here's another question- if I dress like a skinny rockstar and do well in hipster bars in brooklyn, and I fail miserably in guido/jersey shore clubs where everyone looks like they are on steroids, do I have bad game?

Answer: yes.

Someone with good game knows how to choose their battles.

But, keep in mind that Justin Bieber would slay it where ever he goes because of his fame. He'd beat out me, the guy with the wife, the guido muscle head.. every time with no fight.

That's the difference between coming from a place of abundance/options and having a rigid one-note game that only works in very particular situations.

That's why I think it's better to be famous. Truth is, a lot of those whores he fucked at that brothel would have probably paid him to fuck them and tried to get pregnant or something.

That can't be said for the beta guy who is married.

---

Here's another question: if your buddy buys you a whore for your birthday, and you fuck her, are you doing p4p? Technically you haven't paid for anything.

Hate to throw a wrench in your example, but I bet Bieber's bodyguards have more raw potential to bang than he does. They certainly have their own set of credentials, like ex military, etc. They are also older and wiser. No one cares about the no name guard.

We have had members here who vouch for the 'roadie' strategy, aka 'do what i ask and you might get to see the band.' With that you could easily siphon a few chicks off of the heap as they roll in. Bieber would be none the wiser.

Post: #98

(11-05-2013 09:25 AM)Grit Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 06:38 PM)soup Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 06:27 PM)Therapsid Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 05:54 PM)soup Wrote:  Again I must pose the question: if you bang a hooker and give her fake money, have you really done p4p?

Along these lines: if you rent a Lamborghini and drive by the beach, pick up a girl in it and bang her that afternoon, did you just bang a whore (like the vitaly video).

If I suck at game and then try using the info on this board and it gets me laid, wasn't I just trading my game to the girl for a bang?

Does it really matter what you are trading with the girl?

I think it's irrelevant, and what matters is that you have power. You have the power to get what you want in life. That's having game. It's the ability to get what you want. If I am handsome or rich or famous and I get girls because of that, does it mean that I have no game? Does it make them whores?

What if I'm super famous actor like high Hugh jackman, I can get almost any girl in the world.. But I decide not to. Does that mean I have no game? Does it mean that Tyler durden has better game than me?

Let's flip it around then.

If Hugh Jackman can bang any broad and chooses not to, let's agree that he has game anyway. He has fame, money, and good looks. He has a certain potential ability to fuck broads regardless of the reason.

But what if Mr. Beta man has a decent middle class income but has only had sex with one or two women in his life.

Normally this kind of guy we'd say is the epitome of having no game.

He doesn't even have the ability to approach a girl and have a normal conversation, let alone escalate.

But according do what we just agreed, he *does* have game just because he could parlay his decent income into getting prostitutes.

Like Hugh Jackman, he's simply choosing not to fuck these chicks, in this case for money.

No he does not.

He has locked into self into a situation with no outs, tell tale sign of bad game. He goes to prostitutes not because he's in a position of abundance- well he has some if he can pay for them.. but he's barely scraping by in his game.

Maybe that's what he's always wanted: a wife and whores on the side. This is probably the case with a lot of guys who have madonna/whore complex.

Here's another question- if I dress like a skinny rockstar and do well in hipster bars in brooklyn, and I fail miserably in guido/jersey shore clubs where everyone looks like they are on steroids, do I have bad game?

Answer: yes.

Someone with good game knows how to choose their battles.

But, keep in mind that Justin Bieber would slay it where ever he goes because of his fame. He'd beat out me, the guy with the wife, the guido muscle head.. every time with no fight.

That's the difference between coming from a place of abundance/options and having a rigid one-note game that only works in very particular situations.

That's why I think it's better to be famous. Truth is, a lot of those whores he fucked at that brothel would have probably paid him to fuck them and tried to get pregnant or something.

That can't be said for the beta guy who is married.

---

Here's another question: if your buddy buys you a whore for your birthday, and you fuck her, are you doing p4p? Technically you haven't paid for anything.

Hate to throw a wrench in your example, but I bet Bieber's bodyguards have more raw potential to bang than he does. They certainly have their own set of credentials, like ex military, etc. They are also older and wiser. No one cares about the no name guard.

We have had members here who vouch for the 'roadie' strategy, aka 'do what i ask and you might get to see the band.' With that you could easily siphon a few chicks off of the heap as they roll in. Bieber would be none the wiser.

Ha! If his body gaurds are banging broads with the half promise of seeing Bieber, then Bieber is most likely getting the sloppy seconds of his gaurds!

Post: #99

Ha are you guys seriously suggesting that biebers guards get more pussy off the whole thin than justin?

Even slash said that Justin's got a crazy cut of women

Post: #100

(11-04-2013 04:37 PM)OGNorCal707 Wrote:  Also like G-man states, it should be obvious... Whether you pay or not, she's still a whore, she still sucks and fucks for money, no diss on Skywalker but I thought it was hilarious in one of his stories that he was so proud to bang a chick for free in Cambodia, knowing that some German guy had just paid for the same pussy the previous night. They still fucked the same chick, only difference is the German guy probably gave her like $15, either way their dicks were in the same hole.

The real difference is the German guy got her first.