Post: #51

G Manifesto:

Great post. For the record, I don't have any big hangup about P4P either. It's not a big deal. I have never done it in the US, but I do think it should be part of every sex lover's life experience. Every guy should try it a few times. It's not a big deal. When I was in the military on deployments in Korea, and I was away from my girlfriends in Okinawa, everybody visited bar girls. We had no other options, being locked up on those bases. Not a big deal. In fact, there is something animalistic about it that is worth the experience.

And I've already done the Rio termas thing with my Brazilian friends. It was worth it for the experience. To them, it's just good fun. And these were normal, good-looking guys, not fat freaks or social misfits. As long as you don't make it a habit, or use it as a substitute for a normal sex life, it's not a big deal.

But you're right about Beiber. I guess it just comes down to being a gourmand, and wanting to eat the foods you want at the time.

Post: #52

The thrill of the hunt versus store bought meat? Why the hell would I pay for poonany when I can get it for free?

At our level, p4p is in the same vein as internet pron. A delusion that tricks the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on.

This forum is the antithesis of that. I want to work on myself to the point where I don't have to put in excessive openers and have success by just being present and myself. Why would I just pay for it? That completely negates the reward.

At the Bieb's and Charlie Sheen's level, I can see it differently. Easier to just avoid the drama of slaying groupies and avoiding the preggers.

Post: #53

This all gets me thinking. Why is it that countries have such laid back attitudes about prostitution whereas in the USA it's a mortal sin? How many countries go through the trouble of setting up sting operations and displaying the names of would be Johns in the local media? Catching and shaming men soliciting prostitutes is like a sick obsession. Maybe some of these guys are down and out and have no other options for sexual relief.

Post: #54

I think there's a kink factor with p4p.

In a way, it's a return to the "redpill" view of women as a commodity.

Think about it: way back when marriage actually had meaning, maybe a hundred or more years ago, it also had a social function. You gave someone money to take care of your daughter.

p4p reminds of this.

I guess it's kind of like quantum physics in the sense that maybe when you get to a certain level of fame/game/money, the rules change, and not only does p4p make sense, it might even be more advantageous (as described in earlier posts here).

There are some sick girls that need to be treated like whores for them to get off. Then they actually become them. I don't have a problem with.

I've never done p4p.

Post: #55

(11-04-2013 12:47 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  This all gets me thinking. Why is it that countries have such laid back attitudes about prostitution whereas in the USA it's a mortal sin? How many countries go through the trouble of setting up sting operations and displaying the names of would be Johns in the local media? Catching and shaming men soliciting prostitutes is like a sick obsession. Maybe some of these guys are down and out and have no other options for sexual relief.

______________

Because America is an uptight, killjoy culture. This county was founded by Puritanical groups. In the rest of the world, nobody really gives a shit.

Americans have some sort of neurosis about sex, which they sublimate. This constant repression then manifests itself in violence, religious zealotry, etc. Europeans, South Americans, and African countries don't make a big deal out of it.

Post: #56

(11-04-2013 12:47 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  This all gets me thinking. Why is it that countries have such laid back attitudes about prostitution whereas in the USA it's a mortal sin? How many countries go through the trouble of setting up sting operations and displaying the names of would be Johns in the local media? Catching and shaming men soliciting prostitutes is like a sick obsession. Maybe some of these guys are down and out and have no other options for sexual relief.

Want to keep all those men sexually frustrated and masturbating, maybe they'll buy some overpriced American car to impress women or prop up bar owners profits. Of course, the US is in parts infected with a bad kind of christianity. The early settlers in the US were religious fanatics, don't forget that.

Post: #57

I did p4p years ago in the same scenario as Quintius Curtius, and was left with an empty and unsatisfied feeling. No skills were required, no connection, and in the back of my head I wondered how many bottom feeders had been on top of her prior.

The experience made me realize how important it was to hone my skills and get it legit. Its an experience I recommend all men do once, like fighting, to see exactly where you stand in life. You'll learn a lot about yourself.

Post: #58

(11-04-2013 12:47 PM)speakeasy Wrote:  This all gets me thinking. Why is it that countries have such laid back attitudes about prostitution whereas in the USA it's a mortal sin? How many countries go through the trouble of setting up sting operations and displaying the names of would be Johns in the local media? Catching and shaming men soliciting prostitutes is like a sick obsession. Maybe some of these guys are down and out and have no other options for sexual relief.

Excellent point, that's why I always thought the p4p shaming on the forum was wack, it's kind an extension of the mainstream feminist way of thinking that pervades here in the U.S.

Post: #59

I guess the Brazilian prostitute treated him with her dildo or with her bunda.

Post: #60

I love a nice rub and tug spot once in a while. Especially on Sundays after a day of drinking and football.

I've even ending up banging tight little Asians for no extra charge at some of the places. $60 for the massage for an hour and then $40 tip to get jerked or even bang them sometimes. I usually leave those places feeling so relaxed and stress free.

But, I've never paid for a 'hooker'. Maybe one day if I'm rich and in brazil.

Edit: I remember one of the Asian ladies even told me that was her first time having sex in months and to come back every week. (I never came back and I kind of believed her) but I did use her a practice per say. I was trying new techniques on her like the 9 shallow 1 deep technique and she loved it.

Post: #61

The simple fact in the end is that prostitution is and has always been very common. Most of you probably went to highschool with several girls who slept with some dude for money. It is much more common than you think.

I for one believe that 'accepted' prostitution is an overall good for society. It lowers value of pussy on the market, which means normal women have to offer something else, which is all the things we like.

South America, Asia, Eastern Europe, these are the places RVF members love to travel to. They all have rampant prostitution.

Prostitution is a GOOD for men and I'd say for society in general, but it is not a subject I think has any place for debate on this forum. There are plenty and plenty of p4p forums and let the specifics of the subject stay there imo.

Post: #62

(11-04-2013 12:46 PM)frenchie Wrote:  At our level, p4p is in the same vein as internet pron. A delusion that tricks the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on.

What about a one night stand with a random bar skank? Isn't that also just tricking the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on?

What is the real difference between the bar pickup versus internet porn or a hooker? Validation.

You can look at validation in two components. Self validation and peer validation.

A guy like Bieber needs no extra validation of any kind when it comes to being successful with women. Let's be real - the guy has to employ bodyguards 24/7 to fend off strange women trying to throw no strings attached pussy at him.

An important difference with getting a hooker is that peer validation is zero, while there would be some kind of peer validation for scoring a bar hookup.

Obviously self validation and peer validation for porn is zero to slightly negative.

Self validation for a hooker is highly variable depending on your own attitude to hookers and how well the experience went.

Hookers are women with feelings and game principles still apply. There are guys who would say that if you make a hooker laugh it wasn't genuine and if you make a hooker come hard it was faked. IMO those guys are still holding on to blue pill beliefs and are denying the true nature of women.

Post: #63

The only difference between pulling a girl and fucking a hooker is validation from other people.

And being needy for other people's validation is as beta as it gets.

Just wanted to repeat what Tigre said! Good post there...

Post: #64

(11-04-2013 01:07 PM)Aliblahba Wrote:  I did p4p years ago in the same scenario as Quintius Curtius, and was left with an empty and unsatisfied feeling. No skills were required, no connection, and in the back of my head I wondered how many bottom feeders had been on top of her prior.

The experience made me realize how important it was to hone my skills and get it legit. Its an experience I recommend all men do once, like fighting, to see exactly where you stand in life. You'll learn a lot about yourself.

I don't know what quality brothel you checked out, but maybe it's different at the top tier places compared to the places that average guys would go to? I'm pretty sure the guys who have the most money to spend are going to buy pussy that other guy's can't buy.

I wouldn't know, but one of the other guy's here can probably attest to to it.

One of the economics guys here should do a cost benefit analysis of p4p vs. game, dollar for dollar.

I also think that there's an issue here on this forum with regards to this matter because in game, you can't be coming from a position of neediness.

The stereotype of the JOhn is the guy who can't get laid any other way.

But what about the guy who access to girls that most guys can't get because he does have a ton of money or fame. I'm sure there are hi-end whores who aren't banging average income guys or have a firewall or are in a circle of famous people and wont bang guys outside of that circle.

Post: #65

Buying drinks at a bar is more of a hit to the average man than buying a hooker is to a man of means.

Plus she goes away when you're doing. She won't get pregnant. Won't say you raped her.

Easy, drama-free sex with a hot woman.

What's the problem exactly?

Post: #66

Porn and real sex both raise testosterone the exact same amount.

Post: #67

(11-04-2013 12:46 PM)frenchie Wrote:  The thrill of the hunt versus store bought meat? Why the hell would I pay for poonany when I can get it for free?

At our level, p4p is in the same vein as internet pron. A delusion that tricks the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on.

1. You're not getting it for free. You are spending your time (learning game, going to the bar doing approaches) and money (on drinks, wardrobe, etc).

2. Do you raw dog girls and bust inside? Doubt it.

Too many guys are on some evo psy kick. We use condoms. We want the girl to use the pill. We support abortion.

We aren't trying to have kids or pass on our DNA.

Once you get to a higher level, you realize this is all about pleasure.

When I worked long hours, I'd go to the strip clubs. I've seen old men with hot women sitting on their laps.

"OK, that's good. I can always pay."

That motivated me to keep working hard.

Post: #68

(11-04-2013 03:12 PM)soup Wrote:  I don't know what quality brothel you checked out, but maybe it's different at the top tier places compared to the places that average guys would go to? I'm pretty sure the guys who have the most money to spend are going to buy pussy that other guy's can't buy.

This.

When I am older, I will totally do p4p.

At a certain point the return of investment on game is bad. You're 55 and running game on 40 year old women on Plenty of Fish?

I can't say for sure, but that doesn't seem worth it to me.

I'll get the nice hot girls that cost $. Keeps away the dirt bags and will ensure a higher level of service.

Like most here, I don't want p4p guys on RVF. What value can they add?

But I totally see their point and don't have the same hang-ups guys have.

I remember reading about Ukraine girls asking for $40 or something for a "cab fare" before sex. If she is hot, I would pay. I don't care. That is nothing for me.

At some point, we gotta ask how much of our ego is wrapped up in the game.

Is having sex with a woman about our physical pleasure, or about stroking our egos by telling ourselves, "She really likes me for me."

Why do we care if they like us?

Pegging your ego to female approval presents its own problems.

Post: #69

I totally support p4p, and hope more guys do it. Like hipsters and pua's, they are painting themselves into a corner and bringing no competition to the bar. I've studied prostitution for years, and once a guys commits to it, becomes lethargic and takes himself out of the real sexual marketplace. More power to them, and less likely they are running through downtown creeping out normal girls.

Post: #70

I'm banging a stripper right now who I pay nothing for.

I go to her apartment to bang her on her off days or before she goes to work.

She always has food and liquor.

She has money to burn.

She works weekend nights so I can just do whatever I want.

It's a mutual win win situation.

Game wise I just walked up to her and told her to put her number in my phone. Texted her to meet up. She invited me over. We banged. She ordered some delivery. We banged again. I went home. That's it.

Post: #71

^ Yes, there is a certain feeling of satisfaction that comes from banging for free what other men have to pay for.

Post: #72

Quote:I've even ending up banging tight little Asians for no extra charge at some of the places. $60 for the massage for an hour and then $40 tip to get jerked or even bang them sometimes. I usually leave those places feeling so relaxed and stress free.

But, I've never paid for a 'hooker'. Maybe one day if I'm rich and in brazil.

I've already stated that I don't have anything against prostitutes and have tried it once (I found it nice, if not intimate enough for what I'd like) so don't get me wrong when I say this... how is paying 100$ for a girl to massage and jerk you off (or sometimes let you bang her) not "paying for a hooker"? That's such a weird statement that it's on par with that girl from Brazil who claimed that she wasn't a prostitute because she was enjoying it.

Post: #73

(11-04-2013 03:22 PM)MikeCF Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 03:12 PM)soup Wrote:  I don't know what quality brothel you checked out, but maybe it's different at the top tier places compared to the places that average guys would go to? I'm pretty sure the guys who have the most money to spend are going to buy pussy that other guy's can't buy.

This.

When I am older, I will totally do p4p.

At a certain point the return of investment on game is bad. You're 55 and running game on 40 year old women on Plenty of Fish?

I can't say for sure, but that doesn't seem worth it to me.

I'll get the nice hot girls that cost $. Keeps away the dirt bags and will ensure a higher level of service.

Like most here, I don't want p4p guys on RVF. What value can they add?

But I totally see their point and don't have the same hang-ups guys have.

I remember reading about Ukraine girls asking for $40 or something for a "cab fare" before sex. If she is hot, I would pay. I don't care. That is nothing for me.

At some point, we gotta ask how much of our ego is wrapped up in the game.

Is having sex with a woman about our physical pleasure, or about stroking our egos by telling ourselves, "She really likes me for me."

Why do we care if they like us?

Pegging your ego to female approval presents its own problems.

Mike dropping some string theory shit right here.

Post: #74

(11-04-2013 01:46 PM)Tigre Wrote:  

(11-04-2013 12:46 PM)frenchie Wrote:  At our level, p4p is in the same vein as internet pron. A delusion that tricks the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on.

What about a one night stand with a random bar skank? Isn't that also just tricking the limbic system into thinking it has passed its genes on?

What is the real difference between the bar pickup versus internet porn or a hooker? Validation.

You can look at validation in two components. Self validation and peer validation.

A guy like Bieber needs no extra validation of any kind when it comes to being successful with women. Let's be real - the guy has to employ bodyguards 24/7 to fend off strange women trying to throw no strings attached pussy at him.

An important difference with getting a hooker is that peer validation is zero, while there would be some kind of peer validation for scoring a bar hookup.

Obviously self validation and peer validation for porn is zero to slightly negative.

Self validation for a hooker is highly variable depending on your own attitude to hookers and how well the experience went.

Hookers are women with feelings and game principles still apply. There are guys who would say that if you make a hooker laugh it wasn't genuine and if you make a hooker come hard it was faked. IMO those guys are still holding on to blue pill beliefs and are denying the true nature of women.

How the heck does a prostitute require game? It's called P4P for a reason.

The point is, game requires skill to pull off. A prostitute requires nothing more than bankroll. Ironically, I'd say it is easier to make money than it is to pick girls up. The latter being a clear indication of your value in the eyes of her and the rest of the lady's opinions.

At Bieber's level, I'll agree. It is probably easier and safer in the long run than to avoid a PR nightmare. But he's in a different world where the rules do not apply to him. To me, P4P is quitting and a sign that one does not have the ability to pull women without money.

Post: #75

This is why I define having good game as being in a position of abundance of options, not neediness, regardless of whether or not they are acted upon. This is a higher definition of game that encompasses everything underneath it.

They super rich famous guys can have almost anything they want, it doesn't matter if they but some paper in a girl's hand or not.

It's a state of mind.

The opposite is the omega/beta guy who doesn't have the options and either going to pay to play, or shoot himself or someone else.