Post: #76

Wayout:
Yuca is not a place I would go for dancing. I have never posted about it and I frankly forgot it even existed. For dancing, the new Cafe Mystique, Bongos (although it was pretty bad the last time I went), Club Tipico Dominicano, Spice in Hollywood, and that Bully place that Jariel posts about are all options, depending on the night. The reason why there were no girls in Yuca is that the girls who can dance were in the places that I just mentioned.

Post: #77

(11-19-2013 01:25 AM)Wayout Wrote:  I don't see anything incredible about this trip for it to be a fantasy . I haven't gotten laid once. I took a bootcamp in London,now I am in Kiev..
That's the thing, I am a fairly good looking guy in late 30's who for some reason gets no lays. Even in SEA I got only one lay and I had to beg the girl.It became kind of a satire when I show up in a dance club Miami and there was one girl in the whole place. It might be just a bad luck.
About dancing : I'v been dancing for about 10 years and I am up there in the top 5% in the US. But dancing doesn't get you lays. And yes, even if you are an experience dancer you still take lessons from different teachers to add to your style and pick up some tricks. Ballroom is really strong in Russia as well - so there is always something to learn. I always wanted to go to a salsa festival Jan 2 in Krasnoyarsk (HOt Siberian salsa something,look it up on youtube) and then bachata festival In Yekaterinburg same month
I posted pictures from Miami hostel before and I will post pics from LOndon and MOscow wheh I get time to upload them and have a strong internet connection. What would you like to see?

We all saw the pics and I think everyone agrees that the pics document how bad a case you have.

Now it kind of sounds like you are on the defense. No reason for that if you truly are wanting to fix your problem.

Do you really have a good job? Are you really a decent looking guy? Intelligent?

If all that is true, why are you staying in hostels? Are you out rolling with $500 in your pocket every night as G suggests? Do your clothes fit? Do you have any ability to make new friends (Guys even)?

Hard to imagine this, but...If you are that good at salsa, but it doesn't get you laid, why not try something else?

Talk about that instead. Maybe you'll be able to build some credibility and through that, make some progress.

To me, you sound like a typical, settled, suburbanite that is just looking to pay someone to solve their issue of the day. I see this at my gym all the time with people hiring personal trainers to get them fit. Trainers and "boot camps" don't work on their own. They are only small supplements to get you on the right track.

Hell, even Roosh bought a suit a couple of years ago. If what you're doing isn't working, copy someone whose style of game is working.

It just sounds like your not paying attention to all the free resources that you've claimed to have been reading.

Post: #78

(11-19-2013 01:25 AM)Wayout Wrote:  About dancing : I'v been dancing for about 10 years and I am up there in the top 5% in the US. But dancing doesn't get you lays. And yes, even if you are an experience dancer you still take lessons from different teachers to add to your style and pick up some tricks. Ballroom is really strong in Russia as well - so there is always something to learn. I always wanted to go to a salsa festival Jan 2 in Krasnoyarsk (HOt Siberian salsa something,look it up on youtube) and then bachata festival In Yekaterinburg same month

WayOut:
You are in the top 5% in which genre? And, how would you know that you are in the top 5%? In which cities have you danced.

Just to be fair, I will give you a little bit about my dancing background. I have danced for about 11.5 years. Currently, I dance Salsa, chachacha, merengue and bachata. In my first few years of dancing, I took a lot of classes, including taking classes by attending salsa festivals, bootcamps and congresses- mostly in California. Since about 2006, I taught mostly salsa as a side gig (b/c I had a full time office/professional job during that time), and done several performances (couples and small groups).

In the salsa world, I would consider myself fairly advanced; however, the real top dancers have performed way more than me. In some clubs, i may be among the top dancers (depending on how you rate); however, many times in LA, there are a large number of high-skilled dancers, so frequently I feel really humbled in seeing other styles of the same dance and also seeing world class dancers who may travel to LA from time to time from other parts of the country and world.

I have salsa danced in various cities in the USA - including Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Denver, Las Vegas, Cincinatti, Miami, Jacksonville, DC, Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis and in Mexico, Tiujana and Puerto Vallarta.

Also, since I am NOW in my 40s, frequently, young cocky talented guys and gals are always upcoming and showing energy, flexibility, dexterity and skill that i can kind of remember having at some point in the distant past ... but no longer do I aspire in carrying out and/or imitating some of those young person(s) moves and/or style.

So, if a guy says that he is in the top 5% of dancers, I wonder what is the poole that you are defining, and how are you coming to that calculation? For example, it would be different if you were to say that you are top 5% of all dancers of X genre nation-wide or if were you say all performers of X genre nation-wide, or if you have some other way of considering how you came to your estimate.

ALSO, do you have 10 years experience in all forms of dance? For me, I would say that I have 11.5 years of salsa, chachacha and merengue, and I have about 4 years experience with bachata. I don't really claim to have other dance talents, even though I can kind of fake some others, but it would NOT look too pretty.



Edit after reading CAP7's response:
Salsa has gotten me laid quite a few times; however, it plays out in various kinds of ways depending on how a guy uses the salsa.. and surely it worked better in my early 30s as compared to my 40s.... but salsa can be used as a good vehicle for playing around with a large number of girls, especially if a guy is a good dancer. These days b/c of my level of talent (and I do NOT claim to be in the top 5% nation-wide), I can dance with some real hotties based merely on my abilty to make them look good on the dance floor and they are impressed or flattered, especially if they are beginner dancers.

Post: #79

Maybe I over estimated my dancing skills..the way I see it- in an American club,let's say in Miami..out of 50 dudes I can probably dance as a top 5 guys. So that's top 10%. And yes I totally agree, I feel the heat coming from younger dancers- they are in better shape and their bag of tricks is just as large. However they don't have as much experience dancing and often unload their "super moves" on a newbie. I always go in with basic moves with someone I haven't danced before and calibrate from there. Kizomba is getting real popular in EE and all over the world. I am looking forward taking lessons and dancing with some hotties!
I got some lays from salsa dancing when I was younger and was a newbie myself...Being late 30's and try to seduce 20 y.olds is not that easy in the uS.
I went to a salsa club in LOndon called "Salsa" - ok ratios compare to where I am from but many girls were not used to dancing LA on one. There were many tourists there as well. I talked to several girls and funny how I got to dance with many by referral from her friends. I would ask a girl to dance and she would decline initially...then her friend would say something like "dude- he is good!"..I guess being a white dude takes away from your salsa credibility a bit. Guys were agressive there as hell!
Anyway..I am looking to leave all this behind and be the chooser!

By the way: staying in hostels is fun! You always have people around you, you meet friends.Sex happens in hostels all the time. I made friends on this trip who invited me to visit them in their countries. If I stayed in a hotel I would feel lonely I think,so it has nothing to do with money.

Post: #80

"Being late 30's and try to seduce 20 y.olds is not that easy in the uS."

^It keeps getting better.

Post: #81

(11-19-2013 05:01 AM)McQueensPlayboyRules Wrote:  "Being late 30's and try to seduce 20 y.olds is not that easy in the uS."

^It keeps getting better.

I have concerns and/or skepticism with several things that OP says in this thread; however, I agree with him on this point.

Accordingly, I already recognize that other guys on this forum are o.k. and comfortable with playing the older man game when there is a large age gap (such as nearly 20 years), which seems to be that a different kind of game needs to be played in order to be successful in this regard - and so far, i have I tended to be reluctant or unable to play my game in that direction to seduce these girls that are nearly 20 years my junior (at least in the US of A).

However, I will also concede that maybe my game and potentially OP's game are both lacking in the playing the 20 year gap category of targets.

Post: #82

I don't think OP is a troll at all. A bit scatterbrained perhaps, but that's it. Who would conduct such an elaborate troll to brag that they didn't get laid at all?

OP: What's the scene like in the hostel in Kiev, compared to in London? More EE girls? Where are they usually from? My vision is that a hostel in Kiev would have just western chicks who are visiting, but I've never been to one so no clue in reality.

Post: #83

(11-19-2013 02:25 AM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  

(11-19-2013 01:25 AM)Wayout Wrote:  About dancing : I'v been dancing for about 10 years and I am up there in the top 5% in the US. But dancing doesn't get you lays. And yes, even if you are an experience dancer you still take lessons from different teachers to add to your style and pick up some tricks. Ballroom is really strong in Russia as well - so there is always something to learn. I always wanted to go to a salsa festival Jan 2 in Krasnoyarsk (HOt Siberian salsa something,look it up on youtube) and then bachata festival In Yekaterinburg same month

WayOut:
You are in the top 5% in which genre? And, how would you know that you are in the top 5%? In which cities have you danced.

Just to be fair, I will give you a little bit about my dancing background. I have danced for about 11.5 years. Currently, I dance Salsa, chachacha, merengue and bachata. In my first few years of dancing, I took a lot of classes, including taking classes by attending salsa festivals, bootcamps and congresses- mostly in California. Since about 2006, I taught mostly salsa as a side gig (b/c I had a full time office/professional job during that time), and done several performances (couples and small groups).

In the salsa world, I would consider myself fairly advanced; however, the real top dancers have performed way more than me. In some clubs, i may be among the top dancers (depending on how you rate); however, many times in LA, there are a large number of high-skilled dancers, so frequently I feel really humbled in seeing other styles of the same dance and also seeing world class dancers who may travel to LA from time to time from other parts of the country and world.

I have salsa danced in various cities in the USA - including Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Denver, Las Vegas, Cincinatti, Miami, Jacksonville, DC, Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis and in Mexico, Tiujana and Puerto Vallarta.

Also, since I am NOW in my 40s, frequently, young cocky talented guys and gals are always upcoming and showing energy, flexibility, dexterity and skill that i can kind of remember having at some point in the distant past ... but no longer do I aspire in carrying out and/or imitating some of those young person(s) moves and/or style.

So, if a guy says that he is in the top 5% of dancers, I wonder what is the poole that you are defining, and how are you coming to that calculation? For example, it would be different if you were to say that you are top 5% of all dancers of X genre nation-wide or if were you say all performers of X genre nation-wide, or if you have some other way of considering how you came to your estimate.

ALSO, do you have 10 years experience in all forms of dance? For me, I would say that I have 11.5 years of salsa, chachacha and merengue, and I have about 4 years experience with bachata. I don't really claim to have other dance talents, even though I can kind of fake some others, but it would NOT look too pretty.



Edit after reading CAP7's response:
Salsa has gotten me laid quite a few times; however, it plays out in various kinds of ways depending on how a guy uses the salsa.. and surely it worked better in my early 30s as compared to my 40s.... but salsa can be used as a good vehicle for playing around with a large number of girls, especially if a guy is a good dancer. These days b/c of my level of talent (and I do NOT claim to be in the top 5% nation-wide), I can dance with some real hotties based merely on my abilty to make them look good on the dance floor and they are impressed or flattered, especially if they are beginner dancers.

First off, I don't think O.P. is trolling. His posts in this thread are, however, a little Captain Power-esque. What I mean by that is that although there are countless posts on Miami by respected forum members, O.P. decided to completely ignore the wealth of information on Miami nightlife and go to a venue which is not even on anyone's radar. I believe he then complained that there were no girls there to dance with. I am pretty sure at the same time he was in Yuca, there were plenty of girls in El Tipico, Bongos, La Covacha, and the new Mystique, most of whom were good dancers.

JayJuanGee:
I don't doubt for a second that Wayout is in the top 5% of dancers nationwide. Here's why. Although places like Miami, New York, and Los Angeles are loaded with good dancers, the vast majority of the United States is not. The vast majority of people in places like the midwest and the south have no idea what merengue, salsa, and bachata are, let alone are able to dance to it. Being able to dance to latin music without embarrassing yourself may very well qualify you for the top 1% nationwide. No exaggeration. Now, if we are talking about the latin dance community in top tier U.S. cities, then top 5% is extremely impressive. In Miami, New York, and Los Angeles, the top 5% are all expert dancers. In the D.C. area, not so much. The people here dance the worst of anywhere I have ever lived, although there are still some good dancers here. The best dancers used to go to a place called the Clarendon Grill on Mondays. I believe they still do.

Post: #84

(11-19-2013 04:26 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  In the D.C. area, not so much. The people here dance the worst of anywhere I have ever lived, although there are still some good dancers here. The best dancers used to go to a place called the Clarendon Grill on Mondays. I believe they still do.

Top 5% Washington, DC dancefloor:

Post: #85

(11-19-2013 04:52 PM)thegmanifesto Wrote:  

(11-19-2013 04:26 PM)Merenguero Wrote:  In the D.C. area, not so much. The people here dance the worst of anywhere I have ever lived, although there are still some good dancers here. The best dancers used to go to a place called the Clarendon Grill on Mondays. I believe they still do.

Top 5% Washington, DC dancefloor:

I'm almost scared to ask where you found those pictures, but they couldn't be much better.

Post: #86

I just got to Moscow - found a very attractive price for a last minute flight and took it. First impression - everything is expensive! Yes I have heard that MOscow is the most expensive city in the world but until you see it with your own eyes it doesn't sink in. Had some breakfast and tea - the cost is a little over 10 USD. I just got to the hostel, going to relax for a bit.
Hostel culture in Kiev and Moscow is a bit different than in the rest of the world. Many people live here long term because they can't find or afford a place of their own. Someone asked about Kiev hostel ,well, 90% of people there were from other Ukrainian cities,living in the hostel,going to work in the morning. There were some attractive girls from provinces I assume. No I have not seen any foreign girls. There were 5 Australian guys staying in the same room together,they were drunk most of the time and not doing anything else.
There are some women here too.Met one girl from the UK - she is an activist for gay rights and a feminist of course,work for a NGO here - classy! right? Couple of guys from the US - broke English teacher types.,they are here for Russian girls. I asked them if they approached any - no they didn't. Their plan is to play the social circle game,yet they hang out mostly with English speaking girls.Some Russian butterface talked to me,was all interested about my traveling - her face was really ugly even by American standards but much nicer body. She was sitting in her undies,so yes,the thought crossed my mind..lol. I speak fluent Russian but the butterface said I don't sound Russian at all.
I'll be in Moscow for a while,maybe 10-12 days. Can't wait to do some salsa dancing and go see the cold war museum. I wonder if there are any board members here in Moscow? PM me if you are here.

Post: #87

(11-20-2013 03:13 AM)Wayout Wrote:  Some Russian butterface talked to me,was all interested about my traveling - her face was really ugly even by American standards but much nicer body. She was sitting in her undies,so yes,the thought crossed my mind..lol. I speak fluent Russian but the butterface said I don't sound Russian at all.

Emm if you're just getting started, why didn't you give it a go? At least for the experience.

Post: #88

OP is going to Russia in dead winter because he hates Russian girls and wants to learn salsa? This logic sounds like your typical routine-spitting bootcamp student.

In all seriousness, most of these Mystery/RSD type companies have full refund policies if you're not completely satisfied. Go get your money back, you were ripped the fuck off.

Then go give bojangles a couple hundred and have him coach you properly. If you remain as useless as you are now after his instruction I'm sure he wouldn't even accept your money.

Post: #89

(11-22-2013 08:31 AM)Bolthouse Wrote:  OP is going to Russia in dead winter because he hates Russian girls and wants to learn salsa? This logic sounds like your typical routine-spitting bootcamp student.

In all seriousness, most of these Mystery/RSD type companies have full refund policies if you're not completely satisfied. Go get your money back, you were ripped the fuck off.

Then go give bojangles a couple hundred and have him coach you properly. If you remain as useless as you are now after his instruction I'm sure he wouldn't even accept your money.

Bojangles and the crew, I would appreciate you stop spamming my thread with your begging I pay you money for a bootcamp. I am not interested. I don't know you and never seen you pick up a single girl. What does it say about your logic if you think criticizing and insulting me will make pay 500 GBP to a total stranger ? You couldn't sell a bottle of water to a thirsty dude in the desert!

Post: #90

(11-22-2013 01:52 PM)Wayout Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 08:31 AM)Bolthouse Wrote:  OP is going to Russia in dead winter because he hates Russian girls and wants to learn salsa? This logic sounds like your typical routine-spitting bootcamp student.

In all seriousness, most of these Mystery/RSD type companies have full refund policies if you're not completely satisfied. Go get your money back, you were ripped the fuck off.

Then go give bojangles a couple hundred and have him coach you properly. If you remain as useless as you are now after his instruction I'm sure he wouldn't even accept your money.

Bojangles and the crew, I would appreciate you stop spamming my thread with your begging I pay you money for a bootcamp. I am not interested. I don't know you and never seen you pick up a single girl. What does it say about your logic if you think criticizing and insulting me will make pay 500 GBP to a total stranger ? You couldn't sell a bottle of water to a thirsty dude in the desert!

Bolthouse isn't part of our "crew". I offered you the bootcamp once, and that was it. I then posted in here saying you made a mistake and no one before Bolthouse just then has said anything else about you giving money to us. Stop being creepy.

That's the last I'm saying of it. You've been an idiot wasting over a grand with nothing to show for it.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off out to a Michelin 2 star restaurant, where I'm going to give them a load of money to sit me down and eat nothing.

Post: #91

(11-22-2013 01:52 PM)Wayout Wrote:  Bojangles and the crew, I would appreciate you stop spamming my thread with your begging I pay you money for a bootcamp. I am not interested. I don't know you and never seen you pick up a single girl. What does it say about your logic if you think criticizing and insulting me will make pay 500 GBP to a total stranger ? You couldn't sell a bottle of water to a thirsty dude in the desert!

NO ONE is trying to sell you anything, and NO one is spamming you. If anything several guys seem to have the impression that you may be guilty of such, either trolling or trying to sell us something.

It seems to me that several guys in this thread have legitimate concerns about the reality of your posts, and additionally, guys are questioning your genuineness in following or failing to follow various suggestions that are being made, and that is why guys herein are pointing out other alternatives, including getting courses from RVF members.

It seems that one of the benefits of this forum is that several times, I have seen that RVF guys are wiling to wing for "free," but NOT if you seem like a troll or otherwise a dweeb.

Surely, it seems that there are a few guys participating in this thread who seem inclined to think that your story is legit, b/c if you are pulling our legs, you are doing a pretty good and subtle job of it. In other words, there is some healthy skepticisms about you and your story.

Personally, I am LEANING towards thinking that you are legit; however, it seems that I am just wanting you to be real and to give you the benefit of the doubt. Nonetheless, I think based on the incredible nature of your various ongoing posts, several other guys, who are still patient enough to read this thread, are less willing to give you the benefit of the doubt.

My personal suggestion, whether you are receptive to it or NOT, would be that you provide helpful information to us to show that you are credible and in that regard, show us that you are taking certain courses of actions that RVF guys in this thread are suggesting, rather than attacking and getting on the defensive. Also, it seems that you have been a member of this forum long enough and accordingly, you should realize by now that guys in this forum tend to NOT be that receptive to hearing commercials promoting various PUA forums, unless in some kind of way it is helpful in our considerations of various overall principles that are shared in the RVF community.

In several regards, your description of your following of other PUA principles seems to cut contrary to RVF, and also to cut contrary to some likely outcomes - over and over again, you come up with some new logic defying set of circumstances that you want to describe, just to push the incredible one step further.

It seems that if you were to follow some of the RVF suggestions and provide feedback on the results of your following some of the RVF suggestions, then maybe you could win over a few additional guys, possibly?


And, if you are NOT interested in winning over a few additional RVF guys, then that also may be part of the explanation for difficulties that you seem to be having in this thread.

Post: #92

I took the Bojangles bootcamp in London and my game improved 1000%.

Post: #93

(11-22-2013 06:05 PM)el mechanico Wrote:  I took the Bojangles bootcamp in London and my game improved 1000%.

Did he give you an RVF discount or rake in the totality of your bitcoin collection?

Post: #94

(11-22-2013 06:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  -

Don't waste your time, mate. This guy is worse than Alberto.

Post: #95

We swapped, el mech gave me an online bootcamp, I can't really give you percentage increase, as I had 0 before the el mech session and now I'm on 100 from online.

Post: #96

This thread is awesome lets keep it going please

Post: #97

(11-22-2013 06:16 PM)MattC Wrote:  

(11-22-2013 06:01 PM)JayJuanGee Wrote:  -

Don't waste your time, mate. This guy is worse than Alberto.

I could NOT find any Alberto - except AlbertoDelMuerto.

/user-11641.html


I guess I am too new, here, and I'm NOT aware of that situation.

Post: #98

Yep, that's the guy!

Post: #99

When I come to London.. I will buy all the food and drinks if you guys drive me around ( antique motorcycle salvage) and pubs..A bootcamp barter if you will and I will teach you guys how to speak English ( that girls like) and how to AMOG in our stops. I have a fetish for pre-1956 bikes and when they are near I turn into a maniac..I'm really talking about even just a rusty frame or whatever..When I smell blood in the water (junk parts) and add booze I'm untouchable with my giant american mouth. So, you will learn.

Post: #100

Op I know your story is legit but I think many members think it isn't because it borders on anti-game or negative game.Some points to consider:

1. if you have money there is nothing wrong with going to a boot camp if it motivates you. BUT it seems you missed out on some common sense that even Roosh mentioned. It is best to go to a boot camp AFTER you have approached 100+ women. It is a complete waste to go to one just to get the nerve to approach. You could have just advertised to hang out with other members to wing you in London. Most guys will be happy to take you under their wing free of charge9or a beer). But you decided to pay a guy who maybe SHAFTED you.

2. He overcharged you just to hang out with you and it doesn't seem he taught you a damn thing. What feedback did you get?

3. Seems you want to game in the hardest cities with the most picky women BUT you obviously don't have the game yet to do so...posters told you where to start.

4. You know fluent Russian and even are going there but you don't like Russian women? ODD... but you love the American-Anglo women who seem to not want to have much to do with you? Those statements make this sound like a SPOOF.

5. Add in that you are top 5% of dancers BUT dancers don't get girls you mention? Dude, dance game is actually one of the easiest game. If you can dance..not even have to be good.just do it. you can get girls. Its like free escalation without game. But you claimed it doesn't work.

6. Mentioning that you begged a Filipino girl makes people either think you made this all up or that you are a short fat troll who's headless. Why? because Filipinos fuck 60 yr old short fat human guys pretty frequently. You don't need game there. But you had to beg?

7. I agree hostels can be LOADS of fun. But logistics is half the battle and its not the best logistics for an inexperienced OLDER guy. I said it before. When you are young being in a hostel doesn't look so bad,but after a certain age it is pretty much equal to living in your moms basement after 30 playing x box. These chicks are probably wondering what is "this old creep " doing here. In the 3rd world countries maybe not so bad but still.Add the dress code in and your not suited up for oxford street game. That's gotta be like 5th ave game. Think madmen NOT charlie brown.

Seriously why don't you ask some members to hang with you so they can give pointers and see what you are doing wrong. I am sure for a beer most will help.