Post: #526

(12-14-2015 12:00 PM)birthday cat Wrote:  

(12-12-2015 11:59 PM)scotian Wrote:  TRT in Colombia

You can buy pharmacy T over-the-counter in Colombia (trust me I know a guy who does it down there, you guys have probably heard of him before haha) and am considering it but would still like to do it under the guidance of a doctor, so I'm looking into finding a specialist down there, hopefully they don't charge $440/hour like they do back in Canada fuck.

I'm not on TRT yet so I'm not an expert. However, I've done enough research to make my head spin due to all the conflicting information out there on the Internets. One of the few consistent things I've read is not to trust doctors especially regarding dosages and dosage frequency. A lot of guys say you have to learn to be your own doctor and one of the more popular lifting/steroid forums refers to doctors as "idiots" and endocrinologists and urologists being the "worst idiots".

system itself is idiotic doctors just are repeating what was told to them without any creativity etc. For example I bought sustanon 250 ampule there was inside instruction to inject every 3 weeks 250mg everyone knows it's ridiculous first dose is very small 83mg/week and levels would be very unstable but doctors just blindly repeating instructions, and charge $440 hour motherfuckin assholes

Post: #527

Is it me or is the general consensus:

-If you can wait til you have your kids
-You are 40+ to start

Aren't those good rules to follow? Anything sooner you should be able to raise your T levels with the things listed previously.

Post: #528

(12-14-2015 04:01 AM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  [quote='Perdidogringo' pid='1169541' dateline='1450032420']
[quote='scotian' pid='1169260' dateline='1449982768']

OMG I buy HCG 5000iu from pharmacy for $5 yours $80+

$5 for 5000 IU of HCG, Rikardo? Which pharmacy exactly in Bogota/Colombia?

Post: #529

(12-14-2015 11:55 AM)scotian Wrote:  I tried to upload the photo of my results but its too small so here they are:

Test Result (Reference Range)
Testosterone 22.9 (8.4-28.8 nmol/L)
Testosterone Free 614 (170-630)
Testosterone Bioavailable 14.4 (4.7-15.0)
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 31.7 (10.0-70.0)

General Chemistry
Glucose Fasting 5.0 (3.3-5.5)

Carbohydrate Metabolism
Insulin Fasting 47 (20-180)

Thyroid Function
TSH 1.3 (0.27-4.2)
Thyroperoxidase Ab 9 (<35)

Pituitary Function
Follicle Stimulation Hormone 5.7 (<10.0)
Luteinizing Hormone 3.9 (<10.0)

Reproductive and Gonadal
Estradiol 131 (<150)
DHEA Sulphate 11.6 (15.0)

This is why seeing the labs are so important, your 614 is given context and makes sense now. You're already top range in Free T.

You SHBG is nearly dead center too. Damn, I wish my labs looked this good natural.

If you follow the suggestions that she made I'm sure you'll feel even better.

Post: #530

(12-14-2015 04:06 PM)Travesty Wrote:  Is it me or is the general consensus:

-If you can wait til you have your kids
-You are 40+ to start

Aren't those good rules to follow? Anything sooner you should be able to raise your T levels with the things listed previously.

Yeah, I think those are generally good rules unless you have low T symptoms. It's really what you want out of it too. If your levels are already good then doing TRT won't help you much, unless you go supraphysiological.

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT however. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Post: #531

(12-14-2015 08:54 PM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 11:55 AM)scotian Wrote:  I tried to upload the photo of my results but its too small so here they are:

Test Result (Reference Range)
Testosterone 22.9 (8.4-28.8 nmol/L)
Testosterone Free 614 (170-630)
Testosterone Bioavailable 14.4 (4.7-15.0)
Sex Hormone Binding Globulin 31.7 (10.0-70.0)

General Chemistry
Glucose Fasting 5.0 (3.3-5.5)

Carbohydrate Metabolism
Insulin Fasting 47 (20-180)

Thyroid Function
TSH 1.3 (0.27-4.2)
Thyroperoxidase Ab 9 (<35)

Pituitary Function
Follicle Stimulation Hormone 5.7 (<10.0)
Luteinizing Hormone 3.9 (<10.0)

Reproductive and Gonadal
Estradiol 131 (<150)
DHEA Sulphate 11.6 (15.0)

This is why seeing the labs are so important, your 614 is given context and makes sense now. You're already top range in Free T.

You SHBG is nearly dead center too. Damn, I wish my labs looked this good natural.

If you follow the suggestions that she made I'm sure you'll feel even better.

Thanks man, I've been following her advice pretty steady (except the Mediterranean diet) and feel pretty good so far, I'm getting a light box for Xmas too. I'm still informing myself on TRT as much as possible, last night I bought Abraham Morgentaler's bookTestosterone For Life and last week I read Jay Campbell's book that Redbeard linked, both good reads. If I decide against it, at least I'll have educated myself more on the topic and be better prepared down the road. Big up to all of you guys sharing your experiences with TRT on here.

Post: #532

(12-14-2015 07:26 AM)Kwisatz Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 05:13 AM)GlobalMan Wrote:  Can someone who's been taking T talk about their long term plan with it?
Meaning, is there a certain point/age in the future you plan on stopping, or will you be taking it indefinitely?
If someone is considering it, should they plan to take it basically forever or stop taking it before a certain point if they don't plan to do so?

I have seen people condemned to inject insulin for the rest of their lives because they mismanaged their sugar and chose poorly. I know people who have to take pills that control their blood pressure because they are irresponsible with salt. I've seen people that had to have surgery to remove fat and restrict what their stomachs can physically hold because they are gluttons.

For me to decide to take Testosterone, by choice for the rest of my life is no hardship.

It's a continuation of a lifestyle that includes relatively healthy eating, no drugs, no alcohol, and active sports on an amateur competition level.

Thanks for the input. It's just been something on my mind when considering it.

Post: #533

My doctor prescribed me the testosterone patches -- instead of injections or a gel.

Does anyone on here have any specific experience with the patches? Other than a comment that patches are nonsense, I did not see very much discussion. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Post: #534

(10-16-2015 07:08 AM)YardDog Wrote:  My man, are you paying out of pocket for this advice? If so, consider leaving this doc and go work with Defy medical. Dr Saya and Dr John (my doc) are leading experts in the field of male HRT. You can work with them from anywhere, they do telemedicine. The prices are very affordable. When it comes to male HRT go with the best.

You should also get a complete panel from labcorp too.

I love the RVF but I don't think this is the best venue to be asking for help when it comes to HRT/TRT.

Go make yourself an account at these forums and start asking questions to the vets:

- excelmale.com (Get a complete thyroid and hormone panel and show it to Chris Vetter. He's the thyroid guru there)
- allthingsmale.com
- peaktestosterone.com

The first 2 have doctors that post that work day in and out in the trenches with guys like you. Guys searching for answers. The veteran posters on those sites know far more than us because they've spent years reading the stories, the books and the research. Some, like Nelson Vergel, have written books about HRT and coach guys for a living. These forums are not for guys that are cycling or juicing. They're for guys that have real health problems and need HRT, which you may be part of.

And yes, a 4.0 of TSH is high and could represent an issue. But what was your T3, T4, FT3, FT3, RT3 and antibodies? Don't know? You need to figure that out and work with a doc that knows about this shit. TSH value, along with any other hormone value, do not operate in a vacuum. Some experts find it a somewhat wortheless value: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh...s-useless/

I wouldn't feel comfortable fucking with my hormones without getting a complete thyroid workup and working with a male HRT specialist.

Consider asking for help on those other forums, but the first thing everyone is going to ask you is 'what are your labs'. So if you don't have complete hormone workups it's going to be hard to get help online.

I wanted to bump this awesome post by YardDog for those of us having low t symptoms, but not actual low t. A high TSH level apparently can cause low t symptoms, and your doctor will never know your thyroid is actually the cause because their reference ranges are so wide and they are very uninformed in regards to thyroid function.

I have a doctor's appointment Wednesday where I'm going to try to get as much blood work done as possible to then take to someone who knows what they are actually doing.

Also found this article for anyone who suspects thyroid issues: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/thyroid-and-testing

Post: #535

(12-14-2015 07:48 PM)Perdidogringo Wrote:  

(12-14-2015 04:01 AM)rikardo_82 Wrote:  [quote='Perdidogringo' pid='1169541' dateline='1450032420']
[quote='scotian' pid='1169260' dateline='1449982768']

OMG I buy HCG 5000iu from pharmacy for $5 yours $80+

$5 for 5000 IU of HCG, Rikardo? Which pharmacy exactly in Bogota/Colombia?

well it's not in Columbia I'm buying in turkey. Just shocked how crazy differences in price can be between countries...

Post: #536

I used gels for a while, but could not get the absorption rate where it needed to be, sooooo for what its worth, I stopped the gels and went back to injections - 100Mg/week to start. I'll have labs again at the end of the month to see where I'm at.

I'm aiming for 700-800 free (starting at ~275). I'll post my results when I get them.

Post: #537

Been reading the posts here for a while as I am new to (legal) testosterone. Going in for a blood test tomorrow AM. My regular doc wouldn't even authorize the blood test since he thought I wasn't a candidate. Finally, I found time to go to a place that specializes in TRT and of course, they are willing to conduct a blood test. Wish me luck & thanks for the perspectives here.

I just hope I don't cock-block myself from being eligible for something that could enhance (rather than replace) what's already there.

Post: #538

(12-18-2015 01:22 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  Been reading the posts here for a while as I am new to (legal) testosterone. Going in for a blood test tomorrow AM. My regular doc wouldn't even authorize the blood test since he thought I wasn't a candidate. Finally, I found time to go to a place that specializes in TRT and of course, they are willing to conduct a blood test. Wish me luck & thanks for the perspectives here.

I just hope I don't cock-block myself from being eligible for something that could enhance (rather than replace) what's already there.

Looks like you found a doc, but in you're an American and in the States you can do your own blood work. You don't need doctors to figure out if your hormones are out of whack. They help to interpret the results if they know what they're doing, but you could also post the results on a site like excelmale.com and get very experienced feedback.

I recommend this site which uses labcorp: http://www.discountedlabs.com/ (I have no affiliation)

If you work with HRT clinics often they use labcorp anyway. You can do the labs first, establish there's an issue, then find a competent doctor. There are 1000s of horror stories on the HRT and men's health forums where guys were mistreated by incompetent docs so be very careful who you work with. I've listened to some so called expert endos in the field promote care that is a 180 from docs that specialize in male HRT.

Post: #539

(12-18-2015 10:18 PM)YardDog Wrote:  Looks like you found a doc, but in you're an American and in the States you can do your own blood work. You don't need doctors to figure out if your hormones are out of whack. They help to interpret the results if they know what they're doing, but you could also post the results on a site like excelmale.com and get very experienced feedback.

I recommend this site which uses labcorp: http://www.discountedlabs.com/ (I have no affiliation)

If you work with HRT clinics often they use labcorp anyway. You can do the labs first, establish there's an issue, then find a competent doctor. There are 1000s of horror stories on the HRT and men's health forums where guys were mistreated by incompetent docs so be very careful who you work with. I've listened to some so called expert endos in the field promote care that is a 180 from docs that specialize in male HRT.

You're right about LabCorp - I saw the slips in the TRT clinic office that they use to ship the blood draw. I hadn't heard of excelmale before but thanks, I may do a second opinion before committing. LabCorp will not simply run a testosterone panel without authorization from some kind of medial doc or health clinic (tried getting them to do it - no luck), so this place was as good as any. Plus, my insurance will cover damn near all of the treatment if I qualify. Should get results back in a few days.

As to clinics, any thoughts on this chain? I suppose it can vary by location, but the one I went to in San Fran is very popular. Given the higher than average number of obviously low-T male waifs in the tech industry, the demand for TRT is understandable. The nurse there said she sees a surprising number of guys in their 20s with all the symptoms. After working there about four years she says she can tell just by walking down the street which guys are likely to be suffering from low T. She described them as having a sallow complexion, overall gaunt appearance, zombie-like disposition - in other words a good number of uptalking millennial "male feminists" in your average urban area nowadays. Sure, she's a nurse who works around low T guys every day, but if she can tell which guys are not at the top of their testosterone game, perhaps plenty of other women can also, they just can't articulate the difference.

Post: #540

(12-15-2015 12:15 AM)RioNomad Wrote:  

(10-16-2015 07:08 AM)YardDog Wrote:  My man, are you paying out of pocket for this advice? If so, consider leaving this doc and go work with Defy medical. Dr Saya and Dr John (my doc) are leading experts in the field of male HRT. You can work with them from anywhere, they do telemedicine. The prices are very affordable. When it comes to male HRT go with the best.

You should also get a complete panel from labcorp too.

I love the RVF but I don't think this is the best venue to be asking for help when it comes to HRT/TRT.

Go make yourself an account at these forums and start asking questions to the vets:

- excelmale.com (Get a complete thyroid and hormone panel and show it to Chris Vetter. He's the thyroid guru there)
- allthingsmale.com
- peaktestosterone.com

The first 2 have doctors that post that work day in and out in the trenches with guys like you. Guys searching for answers. The veteran posters on those sites know far more than us because they've spent years reading the stories, the books and the research. Some, like Nelson Vergel, have written books about HRT and coach guys for a living. These forums are not for guys that are cycling or juicing. They're for guys that have real health problems and need HRT, which you may be part of.

And yes, a 4.0 of TSH is high and could represent an issue. But what was your T3, T4, FT3, FT3, RT3 and antibodies? Don't know? You need to figure that out and work with a doc that knows about this shit. TSH value, along with any other hormone value, do not operate in a vacuum. Some experts find it a somewhat wortheless value: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/tsh...s-useless/

I wouldn't feel comfortable fucking with my hormones without getting a complete thyroid workup and working with a male HRT specialist.

Consider asking for help on those other forums, but the first thing everyone is going to ask you is 'what are your labs'. So if you don't have complete hormone workups it's going to be hard to get help online.

I wanted to bump this awesome post by YardDog for those of us having low t symptoms, but not actual low t. A high TSH level apparently can cause low t symptoms, and your doctor will never know your thyroid is actually the cause because their reference ranges are so wide and they are very uninformed in regards to thyroid function.

I have a doctor's appointment Wednesday where I'm going to try to get as much blood work done as possible to then take to someone who knows what they are actually doing.

Also found this article for anyone who suspects thyroid issues: http://www.precisionnutrition.com/thyroid-and-testing

Thanks for bumping the above thread. The information at the links was very helpful and I found most of what I needed.

Post: #541

Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

Post: #542

(12-19-2015 10:55 AM)SlickyBoy Wrote:  

(12-18-2015 10:18 PM)YardDog Wrote:  Looks like you found a doc, but in you're an American and in the States you can do your own blood work. You don't need doctors to figure out if your hormones are out of whack. They help to interpret the results if they know what they're doing, but you could also post the results on a site like excelmale.com and get very experienced feedback.

I recommend this site which uses labcorp: http://www.discountedlabs.com/ (I have no affiliation)

If you work with HRT clinics often they use labcorp anyway. You can do the labs first, establish there's an issue, then find a competent doctor. There are 1000s of horror stories on the HRT and men's health forums where guys were mistreated by incompetent docs so be very careful who you work with. I've listened to some so called expert endos in the field promote care that is a 180 from docs that specialize in male HRT.

You're right about LabCorp - I saw the slips in the TRT clinic office that they use to ship the blood draw. I hadn't heard of excelmale before but thanks, I may do a second opinion before committing. LabCorp will not simply run a testosterone panel without authorization from some kind of medial doc or health clinic (tried getting them to do it - no luck), so this place was as good as any. Plus, my insurance will cover damn near all of the treatment if I qualify. Should get results back in a few days.

As to clinics, any thoughts on this chain? I suppose it can vary by location, but the one I went to in San Fran is very popular. Given the higher than average number of obviously low-T male waifs in the tech industry, the demand for TRT is understandable. The nurse there said she sees a surprising number of guys in their 20s with all the symptoms. After working there about four years she says she can tell just by walking down the street which guys are likely to be suffering from low T. She described them as having a sallow complexion, overall gaunt appearance, zombie-like disposition - in other words a good number of uptalking millennial "male feminists" in your average urban area nowadays. Sure, she's a nurse who works around low T guys every day, but if she can tell which guys are not at the top of their testosterone game, perhaps plenty of other women can also, they just can't articulate the difference.

Hey man, I recommended discountlabs because you can get lab tests done without a script (unless you're in NY I think). They use labcorp for their laboratory. You go to the site and purchase the lab you need. Then they will email you a script and you take it to a health clinic that works with them to get the draw. Your blood then goes to Labcorp and they email you the results. No doc needed at all.

As far a clinics I can't say anything about the one you linked to but I use Defy Medical as do many others here and on excelmale. I've never heard of better prices or service. With Defy you also get to work with doctors that have serious cred in HRT. You have to be cool with telemedicine though (you can go see them if you want).

Post: #543

(12-19-2015 07:07 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

I answered this above but here's the info again:

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Post: #544

(12-20-2015 07:18 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 07:07 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

I answered this above but here's the info again:

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Hey man, is this true?? that would be awesome. The link doesnt seem to work tho.

Post: #545

From everything I've read/researched, it's very unlikely that you can't restart your testosterone/sperm production should you decide to go off TRT.

Mike at DNP has a great podcast on TRT in which he and Jay from FabnFit at 40 discuss tons of TRT basics, including fertility:

http://www.dangerandplay.com/2014/02/24/...t-podcast/

Post: #546

(12-20-2015 10:40 AM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 07:18 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-19-2015 07:07 PM)Rontgennurz Wrote:  Interesting thread. Im not sure If I have low testosterone but I for sure have many of the symptoms described. I mean Ive worked out many many years and Im muscular, but still the mental things .. im lazy, little motivation, brain fog and libido isnt that good no more ..

I think Im gonna get a blood test. But what bothers me is ... Im only 27 and I wanna have children in the future, is it a big risk that I will become sterile and unable to get kids If I would turn out to have low T and hop on TRT?

I answered this above but here's the info again:

HCG can preserve your fertilty while on TRT. Check out this page and study: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Hey man, is this true?? that would be awesome. The link doesnt seem to work tho.

Yes, it's true. An actually study has been done to prove it too, unlike most shit you hear about TRT on the internet.

Here's the link again: http://www.defymedical.com/resources/hea...rgoing-trt

Here's the study's conclusion: "Results: A total of 26 men with a mean age of 35.9 years were included in the study. Mean followup was 6.2 months. Of the men 19 were treated with injectable testosterone and 7 were treated with transdermal gel. Mean serum hormone levels before vs during treatment were testosterone 207.2 vs 1,055.5 ng/dl (p 0.0001), free testosterone 8.1 vs 20.4 pg/ml (p 0.02) and estradiol 2.2 vs 3.7 pg/ml (p 0.11). Pretreatment semen parameters were volume 2.9 ml, density 35.2 million per ml, motility 49.0% and forward progression 2.3. No differences in semen parameters were observed during greater than 1 year of followup. No impact on semen parameters was observed as a function of testosterone formulation. No patient became azoospermic during concomitant testosterone replacement and human chorionic gonadotropin therapy. Nine of 26 men contributed to pregnancy with the partner during followup."

Post: #547

(12-20-2015 11:17 AM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  From everything I've read/researched, it's very unlikely that you can't restart your testosterone/sperm production should you decide to go off TRT.

Man, I think you have it backwards actually. When on TRT if you're not using HCG your HTPA shuts down completely and you can become sterile. If you use HCG while on TRT, as seen above, it can keep your balls going and keep your fertile. Even without HCG guys have gotten girls preg while on TRT. I think Jay did, but can't remember the story.

If you stop TRT in most cases you'll go back to the level you were at before starting TRT, provided you do a good restart program.

If you're low you'll go back to being low. If you work with good docs they most certainly can get your production going again with a restart. I would invite you to research restart programs or contact a place like Defy. They can detail to you how it works. The longer you go on TRT without HCG the harder it is to get your balls going again though.

Lots of guys have gotten off TRT, gotten girls preg and then back on TRT. Go to forums that specialize in TRT and you'll see this is common situation. However, if you just use enough HCG while on it it's not a concern.

Post: #548

(12-20-2015 11:17 AM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  From everything I've read/researched, it's very unlikely that you can't restart your testosterone/sperm production should you decide to go off TRT.

Can't speak to the fertility angle, but as for testosterone itself, it depends upon how much you take. Ask any body builder who went from using 'roids (shrinking nuts) to going back to no roids (nuts back to normal size). The nuts only shrink when they are not used for producing natural testosterone. It stands to reason that when the 'roids are taken away, the nuts resume their natural size as they are once again put into full time testosterone production.

TRT isn't nearly as radical since the dosages are much lower, but the principle is the same - you will most likely go back to your pre-enhancement levels. The clinic I talked to makes HCG part of the picture, which is good to know. That and they do a PSA as part of their lab panel.

Post: #549

(12-20-2015 11:56 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:17 AM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  From everything I've read/researched, it's very unlikely that you can't restart your testosterone/sperm production should you decide to go off TRT.

Man, I think you have it backwards actually. When on TRT if you're not using HCG your HTPA shuts down completely and you can become sterile. If you use HCG while on TRT, as seen above, it can keep your balls going and keep your fertile. Even without HCG guys have gotten girls preg while on TRT. I think Jay did, but can't remember the story.

If you stop TRT in most cases you'll go back to the level you were at before starting TRT, provided you do a good restart program.

If you're low you'll go back to being low. If you work with good docs they most certainly can get your production going again with a restart. I would invite you to research restart programs or contact a place like Defy. They can detail to you how it works. The longer you go on TRT without HCG the harder it is to get your balls going again though.

Lots of guys have gotten off TRT, gotten girls preg and then back on TRT. Go to forums that specialize in TRT and you'll see this is common situation. However, if you just use enough HCG while on it it's not a concern.

"What do you call a guy who uses TRT as birth control?"

"Daddy"

@49:18

http://fabfitover40.com/2015/09/29/defy-...questions/

Post: #550

(12-20-2015 11:56 AM)YardDog Wrote:  

(12-20-2015 11:17 AM)KeepMovingForward Wrote:  From everything I've read/researched, it's very unlikely that you can't restart your testosterone/sperm production should you decide to go off TRT.

Man, I think you have it backwards actually. When on TRT if you're not using HCG your HTPA shuts down completely and you can become sterile. If you use HCG while on TRT, as seen above, it can keep your balls going and keep your fertile. Even without HCG guys have gotten girls preg while on TRT. I think Jay did, but can't remember the story.

If you stop TRT in most cases you'll go back to the level you were at before starting TRT, provided you do a good restart program.

If you're low you'll go back to being low. If you work with good docs they most certainly can get your production going again with a restart. I would invite you to research restart programs or contact a place like Defy. They can detail to you how it works. The longer you go on TRT without HCG the harder it is to get your balls going again though.

Lots of guys have gotten off TRT, gotten girls preg and then back on TRT. Go to forums that specialize in TRT and you'll see this is common situation. However, if you just use enough HCG while on it it's not a concern.

Yeah, you're saying exactly what I am. It's generally easy to get your nuts working again when you go off TRT.