Post: #1076

Hcg tells your pitiuary gland in your brain to produce LH/FSH. I'm not going to go into details but hcg gives you thicker cum, keeps your ballsack nice and thick, I personally look better when taking it on cycle. 250iu's every third day is S3K's dosage on cycle. Pct or if you blast and cruise like me (i'm on trt medicated by a endo dr) I dose hcg @ 4000iu's 3 times a week (sub Q of course) for week one coming off cycle and than down to 2000iu's twice a week for weeks 2-4. I also take hcg 9 months yearly while on trt for the thickness in cum (love spraying these chicks) and I just look better. It also helps lowering my trt dosage. How? Agian hcg tells your pitituary to produce more lh/fsh which is the chemical that tells ur testes to produce more testosterone. It's true, a cycle shuts you down from all the synthetic chemicals, think of hcg helping you bounce back that much quicker. Also, hcg saves your fertility according to numerous ncbi findings.

About ncbi, try to make it a habit to research ncbi reports before anything else. I understand it's hard to understand at first but you will get it eventually. These are actuall research results and not peoples opinion like you find on 99% of the web. Excel male, bodybuilding forums etc. What i'm telling you is to do your own research from actual studies on a good sample size.

Heres some food for thought. What if I told you theres a ncbi on 2 week cycles. Imagine doubling or even tripling your var and test dosage to get it all in just 2 weeks. Why 2 weeks? Sides begin to develop after the 2 week period (gyno, acne you already know) as well with receptors, (specifically mitochondria) becoming saturated around the 2 week mark. What does this mean, no sides and a way more effective cycle (speaking from experiance). Aight went off topic but think you have your answer with reguards to hcg. Its a must have and its relatively cheap.

Post: #1077

Anyone fuck with peptides/SARMs? Ordered some RAD140 to add on top of TRT for a few weeks.

I was adverse to the legal risks of ordering illegal gear so figured I’d give this a go.

Post: #1078

Yeah, I've messed around with SARMS for the past 2 years, and have been experimenting with stacking SARMS with my TRT (I take 225mgs per week, separated into 3 pins) over the past 8 months. I actually just finished a Rad-104 cycle to finish off my bulk, and now I'm taking Ostarine. But I had great results with Rad and want to run Ostarine and Rad together soon.

The biggest benefit of running SARMS with TRT is that you technically don't need a PCT and you can bounce from one SARM to another, but I think in the long term your body needs a break from time to time. From someone who ran the same SARMS both on and off TRT (although I just started running Ostarine on TRT), I can say the results are definitely more pronounced on TRT.

In my experience SARMS for bulking is a waste. You're better off blasting Test or using D-Bol. The "bulking" SARM is Ligandrol. The problem with Ligandrol is that it's the most suppressive SARM and will cause your estrogen to spike, so you need to add an AI. So it requires the maintenance of a Test blast, along with the negative side effects (It gave me a nasty cystic acne outbreak), but with half the gains you could get with Dbol or a blast. Also bottles of Ligandrol are expensive, like 70 dollars each and you're going to need 4 for a full cycle. Add in a couple of bottles of AI and you're close to $400 USD with shipping.

On the other hand, I've had great results using SARMS for body recomposition and for a cut. The 2 big ones are Rad-104 and Ostarine. Basically, Rad and Ostarine are for guys who don't want to run Tren, Winstrol or Anavar. Either because they don't know where to get it, or the potential gains and shreds are outweighed by the potential side effects of those compounds.

For my Rad cycle I was taking 30 mgs a day in the morning. What I liked most about Rad is that it made my muscles dryer, and I was noticeably more vascular 6 weeks in.

I could sense it spiked my estrogen though, because I continued to break out. I declined to get blood work done until my last week of the cycle, and I'm currently awaiting the results to confirm. If I were to run it again, I would drop the dosage to 20 mgs and take an AI (I was taking DIM because my Test Cyp has Anastrozole mixed in it, but I should have added a standalone AI).

I just started an Ostarine cycle at 20 mgs a day, but I might add 10 mgs of Rad and run this stack all Summer. I think both of these would work well together, but I'll let you know.

If you decide to stack a SARM with your TRT, then don't be an idiot like myself and slowly ramp up the dosage and get blood work done 3 or 4 weeks in to see how you're body is reacting. If you don't then you risk getting acne, and frequent anger flashes, and who knows what else.

Finally, I've also been taking MK-677, which is the "Growth Hormone" SARM (although It's technically not a SARM). No bullshit, I gained 13 pounds in the first 30 days taking 677 (175lbs. to 188lbs), and had noticeably deeper sleep. The first time I took it I did an 8 week cycle at 30mgs a day. I eventually gained another 4 pounds to give me a total of 17 pounds gained (granted this was a fat/muscle/water combo gain). I then took 8 weeks off, and then ran a second 8 week cycle at 30 mgs a day. But this one was not as productive as the first and I don't think I gained much weight at all.

Now I'm taking 677 on a 5 days on/5 days off schedule and we'll see how it goes. I've gained 3 pounds since the beginning of March, but will continue to run this schedule over the next month or so and see what happens.

Post: #1079

The problem with sarms is that the research is inconclusive. One study says a specific compound is not suppressive and another study says it is. I do think there safer than anabolics but I definitly would NOT run them during PCT. They are suppresive and the goal of PCT is to bounce your natrual test back to normal levels.

Also, the gains I've made on sarms do not stick around as much as anabolics. Even with an air tight diet. If I gain 10lbs of lbm (lean body mass), 8 weeks after cycle i'm down to 1-2 lbs lbm.

Post: #1080

(04-17-2018 10:57 AM)S3K2 Wrote:  The problem with sarms is that the research is inconclusive. One study says a specific compound is not suppressive and another study says it is. I do think there safer than anabolics but I definitly would NOT run them during PCT. They are suppresive and the goal of PCT is to bounce your natrual test back to normal levels.

Also, the gains I've made on sarms do not stick around as much as anabolics. Even with an air tight diet. If I gain 10lbs of lbm (lean body mass), 8 weeks after cycle i'm down to 1-2 lbs lbm.

My good real life friend, who goes by the alias "Spurfy" on AnabolicMinds.com has been studying Neuroscience, Pharmacology and Toxicology for 17+ years, has multiple PhD's as well as been published on the prestigious Pubmed.com

He has proven, with science and anecdotal experience on many elite athletes as his clientele, that - Toremifene Citrate prevents Shutdown 'on-cycle', allowing your Natural Testosterone levels to be sustained while on strongly suppressive Androgenics.
This has the benefit of allowing your P450scc pathway to remain active while on powerful suppressive Androgenics, which also allow your body to maintain production of natural pregnenolone and cortisol levels while 'on-cycle.'
This prevents the all too common 'adrenal fatigue' which many TRT users are affected by.

Spurfy's scientific explanation, which he also has bloodwork from himself and multiple clientele to prove:
"That SERMs prevent HPG-axis shutdown on cycle shouldn't surprise anyone who understands their pharmacology: SERMs are not hypothalmic ER-alpha antagonists. An antagonist merely blocks the receptor from binding the active ligand. They are inverse agonists -- they bind to the receptor and then produce the opposite effect of an agonist, in this case, estradiol. So, it matters not if circulating androgens are high, since SERMs aren't merely blocking the effects of E2 on ER-alpha, they are initiating the downstream actions that are the exact opposite as what happens when E2 binds to ER-alpha.

The thing you have to remember when you run a SERM, is that you're essentially granting that chemical permission to manage your HPG/HPA-axes, and all associated downstream effects. For tamoxifen, this means potential liver problems, reduced IGF-1, elevated prolactin levels and an increased cancer risk. For clomiphene, this means potential cholestasis, sharply elevated SHBG and potential occular toxicity. For toremifene, this means... A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia. This is why I like toremifene so much -- it's basically the perfect SERM for regulating the hypothalamus. It's not quite as potent as tamoxifen or clomiphene, but it doesn't need to be. The potency of those drugs are what causes problems with them.

If I were a physician, I would be prescribing toremifene to all of my secondary hypogonadal patients in lieu of TRT. With a small dose of a DHT-derived compound for a little extra "push", toremifene is simply amazing as a "standalone" TRT for secondary. I maintain total T levels around 850-950, my lipids are perfect, my ACTH and salivary cortisol are now in range (I suffered from "adrenal fatigue" for years), my liver values are perfect, my libido is great, my skin looks better than it ever has (thank you ER-b agonism), and when I cycle I don't have to worry about shutdown, acne, AIs, or any other nonsense. At 40, I can honestly say I look and feel better than I did when I was 30." - Spurfy, AnabolicMinds.com

Please read between the lines (I have bolded it for you Millennials who demand Instant Gratification from life!)
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and Clomiphene (Clomid) are not safe 100% for your long-term Health.
Old School bodybuilders used them because they were Pioneers learning and experimenting in an age without scientific knowledge.
Toremifene Citrate is not only safe, it actually has long-term Health Benefits, again - "A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia." - Spurfy
The above quote is scientifically proven and attributed to Toremifene Citrate and Toremifene Citrate alone.
No other SERM can boast this.

Post: #1081

@ ScrapperTL:

how you pitch toremifene I'm almost inclined to go off TRT and give it a whirl. But my BS meter is going off when one states that toremifene causes no side effects while the other SERMS are trash. I think you would be met with skepticism if you posted the same on r/steroids.

Full disclosure: I took clomiphene for almost a year. Caused my test to go up to 1,200, but elevated the E2 significantly. I was not on an AI at the time. My cholesterol numbers became amazing: total cholesterol dropped from 190 to 140, while HDL stayed the same. This stuff dropped my LDL by almost 30 points, from 100 to 70 if I recall.

My sperm quality and quantity improved greatly, but libido stayed in the tank. Ultimately I got a floater from it, that has finally gone away after about two years.

I've been on TRT for almost a year and will likely go PCT when my wife and I try for our second kid. At that point I may look into toremifene, even though I have clomid hanging around.

Post: #1082

(04-17-2018 05:11 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  @ ScrapperTL:

how you pitch toremifene I'm almost inclined to go off TRT and give it a whirl. But my BS meter is going off when one states that toremifene causes no side effects while the other SERMS are trash. I think you would be met with skepticism if you posted the same on r/steroids.

Full disclosure: I took clomiphene for almost a year. Caused my test to go up to 1,200, but elevated the E2 significantly. I was not on an AI at the time. My cholesterol numbers became amazing: total cholesterol dropped from 190 to 140, while HDL stayed the same. This stuff dropped my LDL by almost 30 points, from 100 to 70 if I recall.

My sperm quality and quantity improved greatly, but libido stayed in the tank. Ultimately I got a floater from it, that has finally gone away after about two years.

I've been on TRT for almost a year and will likely go PCT when my wife and I try for our second kid. At that point I may look into toremifene, even though I have clomid hanging around.

Start the Toremifene Citrate now, you will be able to stay on TRT and become fertile again.
Other benefits are increased bone mineral density, normal P450scc pathway functioning, which brings your pregnenolone and cortisol back to normal levels, allowing you to drop garbage DHEA.
Not to mention lowering your risk of prostate cancer and cardiac arrest (if you have pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia)

I’m not pitching anything, I make no money for recommending Toremifene Citrate.
I am here to help my bro’s and genuinely enjoy all the PM’s I get from all the many people who have tried my suggestions, experiencing major success.
Yes, r/steroids probably would be skeptical, so show them the iron clad and sound science I have posted above.
The man I collaborate with has more scientific knowledge and experience than 10,000 of the greatest ‘internet bro-scientists’ combined.

Post: #1083

Experimenting with adding the SARM, LGD-4033, on top of TRT while on my bulk. Currently 5 days in.

-Libido is 100% higher. Went from fapping every other day to 2x/day.

-Some very small but significant muscle gain, even at <1 week so far

-Some extra acne and a little anxiety.

Plan is 4 weeks at 10mg/day. Will continue to make updates.

Post: #1084

(04-13-2018 12:01 AM)Dodgy Wrote:  Yeah, I've messed around with SARMS for the past 2 years, and have been experimenting with stacking SARMS with my TRT (I take 225mgs per week, separated into 3 pins) over the past 8 months. I actually just finished a Rad-104 cycle to finish off my bulk, and now I'm taking Ostarine. But I had great results with Rad and want to run Ostarine and Rad together soon.

The biggest benefit of running SARMS with TRT is that you technically don't need a PCT and you can bounce from one SARM to another, but I think in the long term your body needs a break from time to time. From someone who ran the same SARMS both on and off TRT (although I just started running Ostarine on TRT), I can say the results are definitely more pronounced on TRT.

In my experience SARMS for bulking is a waste. You're better off blasting Test or using D-Bol. The "bulking" SARM is Ligandrol. The problem with Ligandrol is that it's the most suppressive SARM and will cause your estrogen to spike, so you need to add an AI. So it requires the maintenance of a Test blast, along with the negative side effects (It gave me a nasty cystic acne outbreak), but with half the gains you could get with Dbol or a blast. Also bottles of Ligandrol are expensive, like 70 dollars each and you're going to need 4 for a full cycle. Add in a couple of bottles of AI and you're close to $400 USD with shipping.

On the other hand, I've had great results using SARMS for body recomposition and for a cut. The 2 big ones are Rad-104 and Ostarine. Basically, Rad and Ostarine are for guys who don't want to run Tren, Winstrol or Anavar. Either because they don't know where to get it, or the potential gains and shreds are outweighed by the potential side effects of those compounds.

For my Rad cycle I was taking 30 mgs a day in the morning. What I liked most about Rad is that it made my muscles dryer, and I was noticeably more vascular 6 weeks in.

I could sense it spiked my estrogen though, because I continued to break out. I declined to get blood work done until my last week of the cycle, and I'm currently awaiting the results to confirm. If I were to run it again, I would drop the dosage to 20 mgs and take an AI (I was taking DIM because my Test Cyp has Anastrozole mixed in it, but I should have added a standalone AI).

I just started an Ostarine cycle at 20 mgs a day, but I might add 10 mgs of Rad and run this stack all Summer. I think both of these would work well together, but I'll let you know.

If you decide to stack a SARM with your TRT, then don't be an idiot like myself and slowly ramp up the dosage and get blood work done 3 or 4 weeks in to see how you're body is reacting. If you don't then you risk getting acne, and frequent anger flashes, and who knows what else.

Finally, I've also been taking MK-677, which is the "Growth Hormone" SARM (although It's technically not a SARM). No bullshit, I gained 13 pounds in the first 30 days taking 677 (175lbs. to 188lbs), and had noticeably deeper sleep. The first time I took it I did an 8 week cycle at 30mgs a day. I eventually gained another 4 pounds to give me a total of 17 pounds gained (granted this was a fat/muscle/water combo gain). I then took 8 weeks off, and then ran a second 8 week cycle at 30 mgs a day. But this one was not as productive as the first and I don't think I gained much weight at all.

Now I'm taking 677 on a 5 days on/5 days off schedule and we'll see how it goes. I've gained 3 pounds since the beginning of March, but will continue to run this schedule over the next month or so and see what happens.

I completely missed this extremely thorough response. Thanks for the write up. I have a few questions for you.

Do you think the pro's of using test or dbol for bulking outweigh the legal risks? I'm probably being overly cautious, but ordering straight-up controlled substances online is way riskier than ordering a SARM, which is why I went the SARM route for now.

Any negative effects on MK-677?

How long before you really start to notice gains on Ligandrol?

Lastly, are the negative effects of Ligandrol comparable to a T blast or a Dbol cycle? As I posted above, I'm only about one week in and so far it is tolerable. I had a nasty run with Halodrol a few years ago and couldn't tolerate the side effects (insomnia and back pain, mainly).

Post: #1085

Thanks I'm glad you got something out of it.

For your first question I wouldn't be so concerned about the legal risks as I would be about the safety and legitmacy of the gear you're ordering online. In my opinion, the DEA are so busy with cocaine, meth and opiod dealers that it's a safe bet that they don't have the time and money to investigate, arrest and prosecute a guy for ordering two vials of Test Cypionate. But the sketchiness of some of those steriod sites is what turned me onto SARMs in the first place.

And if you want to add 20 pounds of mass, then the legal risks are outweighed by the mass gains provided by Test and Dbol. I don't think you can put on 20 pounds of mass with Ligandrol. Of course, a lot depends on diet but what I didn't mention in the first post was that Ligandrol doesn't provide the strength gains that you can enjoy on Gear. So a realistic gain would be 8 to 12 pounds on a Ligandrol cycle.

As far as noticing the effects, I notice the effects of all SARMs around week 4 and by week 8 I can definitely tell it's working. In your case, I would consider extending your cycle to at least 8 weeks if you can, and maybe increase the dosage to 20mgs a day. I was taking 30 mgs a day on my cycle, which I found was too high without an AI. But even if you don't want to increase the dosage you should seriously consider cycling for 8 weeks, and then assess whether it's worth it to go for another 2 to 4 weeks.

And maybe I was too hard on the side effects of Ligandrol compared to Gear. In reality you're just looking at acne and mood swings on SARMs. You're not at risk for Gyno, Test bloat, or liver damage. But unfortunately, acne sucks for me because I'm prone to cystic acne and a cystic acne breakout will linger for months before going away.

Finally, I haven't encountered any side effects from MK-677. It does cause sleepiness, but I take it a night so it's not a big deal.

Post: #1086

I tried RAD-140 and hated it. I must have gotten a weird batch, but JaySway can tell you that I was pming him and freaking out because i was convinced that there was somethign wrong with my eyes. It was like someone put tinted glasses on me and I could never take them off. I also became photosensitive and experienced night blindness. According to my research, I must have had the wrong SARM but that experience soured me to them. I stick with Dbol, Var, EQ, HCG Test and other more heavily researched things. That said, I have one guy taking Ligandrol (lgd) and he's loving it.

Post: #1087

(04-19-2018 09:54 PM)Fortis Wrote:  I tried RAD-140 and hated it. I must have gotten a weird batch, but JaySway can tell you that I was pming him and freaking out because i was convinced that there was somethign wrong with my eyes. It was like someone put tinted glasses on me and I could never take them off. I also became photosensitive and experienced night blindness. According to my research, I must have had the wrong SARM but that experience soured me to them. I stick with Dbol, Var, EQ, HCG Test and other more heavily researched things. That said, I have one guy taking Ligandrol (lgd) and he's loving it.

Hi Fortis are you sure that what you took was RAD-140 and not S4/Andarine? What you describe is a common side of S4 at high doses. I avoid S4 for exactly that reason. Have never had the night tint on RAD 104.

Post: #1088

I don't know why you would take a bunch of sketchy SARMS with weird sides when you can just run a little test and an AI for like under 50 bucks a month (or way less than that if you are forward thinking), have very few sides and great gains. You can get way thick on just a LITTLE test if you are lifting right and eating in a surplus. Hold the calories back after you've put on a bunch of size and strength, and get cut. No sides.

Post: #1089

(04-20-2018 01:16 AM)Steelex Wrote:  I don't know why you would take a bunch of sketchy SARMS with weird sides when you can just run a little test and an AI for like under 50 bucks a month (or way less than that if you are forward thinking), have very few sides and great gains. You can get way thick on just a LITTLE test if you are lifting right and eating in a surplus. Hold the calories back after you've put on a bunch of size and strength, and get cut. No sides.

Agreed.

I always thought that SARMs appealed most to people who aren't ready to get on the injection bandwagon, as such if you're already on a TRT regimen and injecting regularly there's not much of a point IMO- you're going to get much better results by bumping up your test dosage, monitoring your bloodwork and adjusting your AI protocol accordingly.

Can't say I've read all too much about SARMs but a lot of them tend to be suppressive as is (so you'll be playing around with your hormone balance with them as well), and as Steelex mentioned come with other side effects that need to be dealt with, so I really don't see the point you're already pinning for TRT and your goal is to gain muscle.

Also heads up about MK-677: it understandably comes with a lot of the same side-effects as injecting HGH, so you should be aware that it tends to reduce insulin resistance and cause higher fasted blood glucose levels (i.e. pre-diabetes if things get out of hand). From what I've read it is often best combined with a low-carb diet as well as regular fasted Apple Cider Vinegar and Alpha-Lipolic Acid supplementation to address this.

Post: #1090

(04-20-2018 01:16 AM)Steelex Wrote:  I don't know why you would take a bunch of sketchy SARMS with weird sides when you can just run a little test and an AI for like under 50 bucks a month (or way less than that if you are forward thinking), have very few sides and great gains. You can get way thick on just a LITTLE test if you are lifting right and eating in a surplus. Hold the calories back after you've put on a bunch of size and strength, and get cut. No sides.

Like I said above, the main reason I went with a SARM instead of blasting test is the legal risk of acquiring UGL testosterone. The more I research, the more it seems that the risk is minimal. If the Lingandrol doesn't deliver good results I'm going to look into blasting test.

"No sides" is disingenuous. I've dealt with all kinds of sides just from being on TRT.

Post: #1091

(04-17-2018 05:11 PM)PUA_Rachacha Wrote:  @ ScrapperTL:

how you pitch toremifene I'm almost inclined to go off TRT and give it a whirl. But my BS meter is going off when one states that toremifene causes no side effects while the other SERMS are trash. I think you would be met with skepticism if you posted the same on r/steroids.

Full disclosure: I took clomiphene for almost a year. Caused my test to go up to 1,200, but elevated the E2 significantly. I was not on an AI at the time. My cholesterol numbers became amazing: total cholesterol dropped from 190 to 140, while HDL stayed the same. This stuff dropped my LDL by almost 30 points, from 100 to 70 if I recall.

My sperm quality and quantity improved greatly, but libido stayed in the tank. Ultimately I got a floater from it, that has finally gone away after about two years.

I've been on TRT for almost a year and will likely go PCT when my wife and I try for our second kid. At that point I may look into toremifene, even though I have clomid hanging around.

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...dFrom=fulltext

"During chronic clomiphene therapy, neither T nor E when given in doses equal to twice their mean production rate in normal men, nor the nonaromatizable androgens, dihydrotestosterone and fluoxymesterone, in dosages equipotent to the infused T were capable of suppressing serum LH or FSH levels or altering the responses of LH and FSH to LRH administration."

https://academic.oup.com/jcem/articl...dFrom=fulltext

"Unstable patterns of serum LH, FSH, and T concentration were demonstrated during frequent interval sampling in 4 normal men. No consistent relationship of T levels to the onset of LH rises could be seen. However, onethird of the LH peaks was followed by a rise in T levels and each T elevation was preceded by an LH peak.

The frequency of release and half-times of disappearance for LH and FSH did not change during clomiphene treatment in 2 of these normal subjects (100 mg/day); elevated serum gonadotropins resulted from an increased magnitude of release per pulse. A similar exaggeration of T secretion was seen. Testosterone propionate injection (25 mg) on day 4 of clomiphene treatment further elevated circulating T levels without lowering serum gonadotropins."

---

On-Cycle SERM use to prevent Suppression/Shutdown is actually not as cutting edge and/or radical as my above posts come off as.
There are existing Scientific Studies out there proving this theory (above).
If you dig deep, you'll even find Anecdotal Reports and Blood Work being posted on the internet.

Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) has been proven by science to be a Carcinogenic as well as minorly Hepatoxic.
Basically poison, if you've used in the past that is fine, just don't use it going forward.
Clomid (Clomiphene) has less than ideal side effects at higher doses (optical issues, emotional issues), if you are not experience these side effects, than continue using Clomid if it is your only option.
Toremifen Citrate is the best option because it is a relatively Strong Serm (not as strong as Tamoxifen or Clomid) but has zero side effects, actually it has many Scientifically proven Health Benefits (check my previous post in this thread)

Post: #1092

8 days on Ligandrol/LGD-4033

-Libido has gone back to normal. Whacking off every other day

-Strength is increasing. An extra few reps here and there

-Small but definite increases in muscle, especially in the shoulders and arms. Increased vascularity. Got a comment at BJJ the other day about my forearms.

-Bodyfat gain seems to have slowed down or reversed. Meaning, before I was putting on some fat as I bulk. I seem to have lost some of it now.

-Over the past 3 days I’ve slept 9, 8 and 7hrs per day, respectively. This is HUGE as someone who averages 6.5hrs usually.

-Anxiety is still increased but appears steady.

-Acne is still increased but not out of control.

-Nipple itchiness went away after taking 0.5mg anastrozole.

Overall I’m very happy with the slow but sure progress at only one week in.

Post: #1093

Quote:ScraperTL
My good real life friend, who goes by the alias "Spurfy" on AnabolicMinds.com has been studying Neuroscience, Pharmacology and Toxicology for 17+ years, has multiple PhD's as well as been published on the prestigious Pubmed.com

He has proven, with science and anecdotal experience on many elite athletes as his clientele, that - Toremifene Citrate prevents Shutdown 'on-cycle', allowing your Natural Testosterone levels to be sustained while on strongly suppressive Androgenics.
This has the benefit of allowing your P450scc pathway to remain active while on powerful suppressive Androgenics, which also allow your body to maintain production of natural pregnenolone and cortisol levels while 'on-cycle.'
This prevents the all too common 'adrenal fatigue' which many TRT users are affected by.

Spurfy's scientific explanation, which he also has bloodwork from himself and multiple clientele to prove:
"That SERMs prevent HPG-axis shutdown on cycle shouldn't surprise anyone who understands their pharmacology: SERMs are not hypothalmic ER-alpha antagonists. An antagonist merely blocks the receptor from binding the active ligand. They are inverse agonists -- they bind to the receptor and then produce the opposite effect of an agonist, in this case, estradiol. So, it matters not if circulating androgens are high, since SERMs aren't merely blocking the effects of E2 on ER-alpha, they are initiating the downstream actions that are the exact opposite as what happens when E2 binds to ER-alpha.

The thing you have to remember when you run a SERM, is that you're essentially granting that chemical permission to manage your HPG/HPA-axes, and all associated downstream effects. For tamoxifen, this means potential liver problems, reduced IGF-1, elevated prolactin levels and an increased cancer risk. For clomiphene, this means potential cholestasis, sharply elevated SHBG and potential occular toxicity. For toremifene, this means... A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia. This is why I like toremifene so much -- it's basically the perfect SERM for regulating the hypothalamus. It's not quite as potent as tamoxifen or clomiphene, but it doesn't need to be. The potency of those drugs are what causes problems with them.

If I were a physician, I would be prescribing toremifene to all of my secondary hypogonadal patients in lieu of TRT. With a small dose of a DHT-derived compound for a little extra "push", toremifene is simply amazing as a "standalone" TRT for secondary. I maintain total T levels around 850-950, my lipids are perfect, my ACTH and salivary cortisol are now in range (I suffered from "adrenal fatigue" for years), my liver values are perfect, my libido is great, my skin looks better than it ever has (thank you ER-b agonism), and when I cycle I don't have to worry about shutdown, acne, AIs, or any other nonsense. At 40, I can honestly say I look and feel better than I did when I was 30." - Spurfy, AnabolicMinds.com

Please read between the lines (I have bolded it for you Millennials who demand Instant Gratification from life!)
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and Clomiphene (Clomid) are not safe 100% for your long-term Health.
Old School bodybuilders used them because they were Pioneers learning and experimenting in an age without scientific knowledge.
Toremifene Citrate is not only safe, it actually has long-term Health Benefits, again - "A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia." - Spurfy
The above quote is scientifically proven and attributed to Toremifene Citrate and Toremifene Citrate alone.
No other SERM can boast this.

Not quite sure why you were quoting me as my post clearly was refrencing sArms and not sErms.
However, one should be careful about posting misinformation. Toremifene citrate is toxic. Though not as much as nolva or clomid, is still does effect liver values. People can hurt theirselves and or die if they don't know what there doing with Torem. Theres been numerous studies on nk 622 or as you know it Toremifene Citrate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8434963/

Heres a study from Japan back in the early 90's in breast cancer patients. This specific study is significant due to a direct side by side comparison to tamoxifen.
I do agree that it may be one of the safer serms, it definitly is toxic and no long term positive health benefits were found. This includes both in vivo and in vitro. So please only give advice from personal experience and not from what you read on the internet. People can get hurt.

Post: #1094

(04-23-2018 12:18 PM)S3K2 Wrote:  

Quote:ScraperTL
My good real life friend, who goes by the alias "Spurfy" on AnabolicMinds.com has been studying Neuroscience, Pharmacology and Toxicology for 17+ years, has multiple PhD's as well as been published on the prestigious Pubmed.com

He has proven, with science and anecdotal experience on many elite athletes as his clientele, that - Toremifene Citrate prevents Shutdown 'on-cycle', allowing your Natural Testosterone levels to be sustained while on strongly suppressive Androgenics.
This has the benefit of allowing your P450scc pathway to remain active while on powerful suppressive Androgenics, which also allow your body to maintain production of natural pregnenolone and cortisol levels while 'on-cycle.'
This prevents the all too common 'adrenal fatigue' which many TRT users are affected by.

Spurfy's scientific explanation, which he also has bloodwork from himself and multiple clientele to prove:
"That SERMs prevent HPG-axis shutdown on cycle shouldn't surprise anyone who understands their pharmacology: SERMs are not hypothalmic ER-alpha antagonists. An antagonist merely blocks the receptor from binding the active ligand. They are inverse agonists -- they bind to the receptor and then produce the opposite effect of an agonist, in this case, estradiol. So, it matters not if circulating androgens are high, since SERMs aren't merely blocking the effects of E2 on ER-alpha, they are initiating the downstream actions that are the exact opposite as what happens when E2 binds to ER-alpha.

The thing you have to remember when you run a SERM, is that you're essentially granting that chemical permission to manage your HPG/HPA-axes, and all associated downstream effects. For tamoxifen, this means potential liver problems, reduced IGF-1, elevated prolactin levels and an increased cancer risk. For clomiphene, this means potential cholestasis, sharply elevated SHBG and potential occular toxicity. For toremifene, this means... A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia. This is why I like toremifene so much -- it's basically the perfect SERM for regulating the hypothalamus. It's not quite as potent as tamoxifen or clomiphene, but it doesn't need to be. The potency of those drugs are what causes problems with them.

If I were a physician, I would be prescribing toremifene to all of my secondary hypogonadal patients in lieu of TRT. With a small dose of a DHT-derived compound for a little extra "push", toremifene is simply amazing as a "standalone" TRT for secondary. I maintain total T levels around 850-950, my lipids are perfect, my ACTH and salivary cortisol are now in range (I suffered from "adrenal fatigue" for years), my liver values are perfect, my libido is great, my skin looks better than it ever has (thank you ER-b agonism), and when I cycle I don't have to worry about shutdown, acne, AIs, or any other nonsense. At 40, I can honestly say I look and feel better than I did when I was 30." - Spurfy, AnabolicMinds.com

Please read between the lines (I have bolded it for you Millennials who demand Instant Gratification from life!)
Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) and Clomiphene (Clomid) are not safe 100% for your long-term Health.
Old School bodybuilders used them because they were Pioneers learning and experimenting in an age without scientific knowledge.
Toremifene Citrate is not only safe, it actually has long-term Health Benefits, again - "A reduction in prostate cancer risk and a risk of cardiac arrest if you have a pre-existing cardiac arrhythmia." - Spurfy
The above quote is scientifically proven and attributed to Toremifene Citrate and Toremifene Citrate alone.
No other SERM can boast this.

Not quite sure why you were quoting me as my post clearly was refrencing sArms and not sErms.
However, one should be careful about posting misinformation. Toremifene citrate is toxic. Though not as much as nolva or clomid, is still does effect liver values. People can hurt theirselves and or die if they don't know what there doing with Torem. Theres been numerous studies on nk 622 or as you know it Toremifene Citrate.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/8434963/

Heres a study from Japan back in the early 90's in breast cancer patients. This specific study is significant due to a direct side by side comparison to tamoxifen.
I do agree that it may be one of the safer serms, it definitly is toxic and no long term positive health benefits were found. This includes both in vivo and in vitro. So please only give advice from personal experience and not from what you read on the internet. People can get hurt.

Please read this excerpt from the study you posted closely,
clearly you can see Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) is much more dangerous even in the short term and Toremifene is shown to be pretty benign in general.

"Adverse effects were encountered in 7 patients (12.3%) of each of the 2 groups. The side effects were fatigue, hot flush, WBC decrease, abnormal values in liver function tests, etc. in the NK 622 group and anorexia, nausea, eruption, feeling of warmth, sweating, dry mouth, dizziness, abnormal values in liver function tests, etc. in the TAM group. Administration was discontinued in one patient with eruption and another patient with abnormal values of liver function tests in the TAM group, while there was no such case in the NK 622 group. Including the discontinued cases, the side effects were moderate and reversible in both groups."

NK 622 group (Toremifene Citrate) was just fine and all benign/mild side effects were easily reversible after discontinuation.

Also I have previously posted studies on this forum showing all of the Long Term Health Benefits of Toremifene Citrate, cited from Pubmed studies, such as the one you posted above.

Toremifene Citrate is scientifically proven and also cited on Pubmed, to increase Bone Mineral Density, lower incidences of prostate cancer and heart arrhythmia in those with a history of proneness to it.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Post: #1095

Two weeks on LGD4033.

Libido took a drop. My erections the last couple of days have been weak and went away quickly. I still think about sex a lot.


Gains seem to have slowed or even reversed. Maybe it was all in my head but arm measurements are stagnant. Muscles don’t look as hard or vascular.

Calories have been around 4,000/day with at least 230g of protein. Also have been training BJJ every day.

Strength is not really going up.

Not sure what I was expecting but LGD is considerably less effective at 2 weeks compared to my only other oral compound experience, Halodrol (prohormone of turinabol). At almost $100/mo, so far LGD has not been worth the money.

Maybe I’ll see more efficacy post-two weeks. If things aren’t improving at 3 weeks, I won’t even bother ordering another vial to complete an 8-week cycle.

Post: #1096

(04-27-2018 07:10 PM)Checkmat Wrote:  Not sure what I was expecting but LGD is considerably less effective at 2 weeks compared to my only other oral compound experience, Halodrol (prohormone of turinabol). At almost $100/mo, so far LGD has not been worth the money.

Yeah Checkmat, this is what I learned taking Ligandrol too. Like I said a few posts back, it's better to just blast Test for bulk. In fact, I'm probably going to do that in the Fall. But if you want to add mass, you could try taking MK-677. That might put 12 to 15 pounds on you.

But I am starting an Ostarine/Rad-104 cycle tomorrow. Protocol is 10 grams of Ostarine, 10 grams of Rad 104 a day, on top of my weekly .64ml of Test Cyp (seperated into 3 pins). Goal is to lean out while maintaining mass and get some muscle hardness and vascularity. Hopefully it goes well.

Also, for those of you on Doctor prescribed TRT, does any one know the most optimal time to get your blood drawn in between pins to give you the best reading of your levels? Is it the day of your pin, or is it a couple of days after your last pin? I say that because my last blood test came back and showed a T level of 600. But I got the blood drawn over three days from my last pin, and my doctor said that was a normal reading for how long it was since my last injection. It got me thinking that it would be a different reading if I had my blood drawn the day after pinning. I may be splitting hairs here it doesn't matter, but just checking if any guys have an opinion about this.

Post: #1097

Three weeks on LGD-4033

Injuries have kept me from training chest/tris or legs much. I'm still doing what I can, with machines.

Weight is up a few pounds. Arm size is slowwwwly increasing.

I feel confident that I could have made most of these gains without LGD and just cruising on TRT and eating a lot.

Some fat gain is apparent. Overall I don't feel like this has been a worthwhile investment so I will stop LGD after the bottle is empty (next week) and work on acquiring more test to do a blast.

Post: #1098

Checkmat - this is great timing. I just started using LGD-4033 on Mon. I’m using this as a motivator to be consistent in the gym. Still too early for any updates from my end but I did drop a few lbs this week (probably due to diet after getting boozed all weekend). Some stats -

Age - 44
Height - 6 ft
Weight - 192 (Day 1 weigh in)
Body fat - 20.8% (as measured by bod pod)
Bench - 135 lbs 12 reps
Squat - 135 lbs 10 reps (I have a bad knee)
Diet - will be consistent paleo
Other supplements - creatine and zinc
LGD dosage - 5 mg

Will post back in a month, think I will do a 4 or 6 week cycle. Given the fed govt now wants to ban it, I am sure it’s 99% effective

Post: #1099

Quote:Please read this excerpt from the study you posted closely,
clearly you can see Tamoxifen (Nolvadex) is much more dangerous even in the short term and Toremifene is shown to be pretty benign in general.

"Adverse effects were encountered in 7 patients (12.3%) of each of the 2 groups. The side effects were fatigue, hot flush, WBC decrease, abnormal values in liver function tests, etc. in the NK 622 group and anorexia, nausea, eruption, feeling of warmth, sweating, dry mouth, dizziness, abnormal values in liver function tests, etc. in the TAM group. Administration was discontinued in one patient with eruption and another patient with abnormal values of liver function tests in the TAM group, while there was no such case in the NK 622 group. Including the discontinued cases, the side effects were moderate and reversible in both groups."

NK 622 group (Toremifene Citrate) was just fine and all benign/mild side effects were easily reversible after discontinuation.

Also I have previously posted studies on this forum showing all of the Long Term Health Benefits of Toremifene Citrate, cited from Pubmed studies, such as the one you posted above.

Toremifene Citrate is scientifically proven and also cited on Pubmed, to increase Bone Mineral Density, lower incidences of prostate cancer and heart arrhythmia in those with a history of proneness to it.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Agreed, tore is a bit safer than tamox but tour totally disreguarding the fact that it increases AST levels significantly. So much so that it is NOT recommended to take a serm to increase test other than synthetically straight test. Serm for sides. One would be taking more of a dosage than usual of torem for increasing test other than for sides control for pct or on cycle that you are promoting something potentally dangerous. Now if ur original post said to take torem over any other serm i would agree but you promoted taking it to raise test which at a dosage to do so would also create a possible liver narcrosis state.
Your also neglecting to tell people that tamox raises igf levels which torem does not. So if keeping muscle was a goal after a cycle, than one would benefit from tomox over torem. Agian, torem does not raise ast levels as much as clomid or tomox but at pct dosages i.e eod or so, it would not make a diffrence.

Why is this so hard to understand?

Post: #1100

I'm 6 wks and 2 days into my basic test-e cycle. 500 mg/week. Weds & Sat. AI is asin 12.5-25 mg e3d if necessary. Loving it.